PG: Chokecago Bulls Part Deux

[PaKii94]

Pointguard and center in that order seems to be main areas of concern

Center is easily our biggest area of concern right now and it's not even close. Upgrading at PG would be a nice luxury, but upgrading our rim protection and interior defense is an absolute necessity that must be addressed ASAP if we have any hope of making the playoffs.

The flaw with the defense is the point of attack not the end point. The end point defense isn't all nba but it's competent. It just can't overcome the zero percentile defense being played by our guards.

[PaKii94]

Pray for me guys. I'm going to go rewatch the meltdown. I couldn't take it in live because I was dumbstruck how quickly the team folded but I need to see what caused it.

[bearadonisdna]

Pointguard and center in that order seems to be main areas of concern

Center is easily our biggest area of concern right now and it's not even close. Upgrading at PG would be a nice luxury, but upgrading our rim protection and interior defense is an absolute necessity that must be addressed ASAP if we have any hope of making the playoffs.

The flaw with the defense is the point of attack not the end point. The end point defense isn't all nba but it's competent. It just can't overcome the zero percentile defense being played by our guards.

Think I agree, you give up a 23 point lead mostly on the perimeter. Having a real pointguard seems to fix the backcourt and not bog it down. Offensively was just as bad as the defense.

It has to be somebody better than zach, cant be a just a role player. Look phoenix, a real pointguard fixed their team.

[FriedRise]

Pray for me guys. I'm going to go rewatch the meltdown. I couldn't take it in live because I was dumbstruck how quickly the team folded but I need to see what caused it.

I’ve decided to forget that tonight happened, but if I were to take a guess, our young guys (specifically Coby, Wendell, and PW) just stopped playing the right way.

On defense, they stopped paying attention and kept missing rotations/helping leading to easy shots by SA. On offense, they couldn’t handle the pressure and kept turning the ball over. Coupled with the terrible refs, it got out of control and became too much to overcome.

Then when the starters checked back in, the momentum had completely switched. Everyone stopped moving without the ball and they all reverted to iso ball - the veterans included.

[DroseReturnChi]

I think moving Coby and WCJ to the bench has only made it clearer how poorly these two play. No more Zach to hide Coby, and Wendell is such a downgrade from Thad out there.

Everyone is talking about trading Sato and Thad, but if the Bulls can sell Coby and WCJ as guys with some potential still, dumping them for mid to late future picks or bad money and picks should be the higher priority from AK.

The only argument they have going for them is "youth". Which is fine and dandy but if we are committed to zach, they need to be traded for competent talent. We don't have the time to wait around for them to develop. Otherwise might as well trade zach and tank. I'm strongly in the former group. I have no patience for incompetence

youth means nothings if they have no potential they are just wasting in 10mil cap space and draft picks.
also, coby looks way worse because he is pretty much plays like Lavine and you dont want 2 one dimensional scorers on the same team much less playing together. I had a feeling carter, white were just screaming busts you cant really take time developing them. The only use I can think of is full tank where Lavine has to get shipped asap.
PAW is someone you gamble on with the potential he has. Or how GS thinks high of wiseman.

[PaKii94]

Pray for me guys. I'm going to go rewatch the meltdown. I couldn't take it in live because I was dumbstruck how quickly the team folded but I need to see what caused it.

I’ve decided to forget that tonight happened, but if I were to take a guess, our young guys (specifically Coby, Wendell, and PW) just stopped playing the right way.

On defense, they stopped paying attention and kept missing rotations/helping leading to easy shots by SA. On offense, they couldn’t handle the pressure and kept turning the ball over. Coupled with the terrible refs, it got out of control and became too much to overcome.

Then when the starters checked back in, the momentum had completely switched. Everyone stopped moving without the ball and they all reverted to iso ball - the veterans included.

I started watching it at the half and then turned it off again. I don't want to get mad again tonight. I'm revisit it later.

From what I do remember from the live watch it was something like that

[beeshma]

Pray for me guys. I'm going to go rewatch the meltdown. I couldn't take it in live because I was dumbstruck how quickly the team folded but I need to see what caused it.

I worry for your sanity.

[Dominator83]

This is a mediocre team. They beat up bad teams and lose against any team above .500, even if it's their own doing.

And to add to that, how many .500+ teams have they even played this year that wasn't missing at least one of their top 2 players? It seems like the Bulls have been the luckiest team in the league this year in terms of that.

Off the top of my head, the only quality win this season where they beat a good team that wasn't missing anybody key, was that Blazers game early in the season. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: just looked. Ok they also beat Dallas in a game where they had both porzinigis and Doncic (the other Dallas game they were missing both). Also beat the exactly .500 Hornets, though with a crappier version of Lamelo Ball. I have a feeling next time we play him he has a field day.

So that's 2 wins against a plus .500 team, and 1 against a .500 on the head team where none of their best players were missing. So............ 3 quality wins?

Dallas had two stars but missed next 5 rotational guys like JRich,THJ,Kleber,Brunson

Doesn't surprise me!

[bearadonisdna]

even with a 20 point lead its an ugly watch.
guess ive matured as a fan and value winning over style but just a brutal watch.
Watching Lauri or thad play center, zach play SF.
PAW play PF, its hard to follow, seems like a lineup daring you to beat them and almost boylenesque.

[CaPiTanAK]

This team would instantly be better if they cut both WCJ and Coby White off the team.

If I’m Bd, I will literally tell WCJ and Coby that they’re going to get only 10 mins per game unless they get hot and play extremely well on those 10 mins.

Consecutive #7 busts by GarPax. What a feat.

[Hugi Mancura]

It looked like a back to back game. Bulls moved the ball very well in the first 8-10 minutes or so, and then ball movement stopped. After that Bulls offense was bad no matter who was in the court. Only reason it took until 4:th quarter to lose the game was because Spurs somehow succeeded to be even lousier in the first 3 quarters. I think they shot 4 / 26 from three in the first 3 quarters. On fourth they finally started to hit their shots and they got their run. At that point Bulls were too tired to fight back. I don't think anyone played well today. Even Lavine really couldn't beat his man one-on-one situations in fourth and he still was the best for Bulls.

The schedule is murder for Bulls, but so it is for all the teams. Bulls just looked tired in this game. Good thing I pretty much expected this. Back to back against good defensive team usually means loss. Sad thing is how it happened. Maybe BD should have tried to use some of the fresher players today. Sometimes little bit energy is what team needs.

It seems that teams (Spurs, Miami, Boston) who have long time reputation of being a good defensive team tend to get called much less fouls than teams with bad defensive reputation (like Bulls) on similar situations. This seems like a general thing, not just against Bulls.

[Lexluthor]

I don't understand why Donovan let's Zach when the other team is making a comeback in the fourth quarter

[PrimzyBulls81]

I don't understand why Donovan let's Zach when the other team is making a comeback in the fourth quarter

Let's Zach, what??

[PrimzyBulls81]

Maybe the team just gassed out!? Also god damn it, AKME do something..

[RSP83]

Pray for me guys. I'm going to go rewatch the meltdown. I couldn't take it in live because I was dumbstruck how quickly the team folded but I need to see what caused it.

Prayers sent soldier!

[RSP83]

Donovan also didn't use the Timeout effectively to try to slow down Spurs' surge momentum..

[Dominator83]

Maybe the team just gassed out!? Also god damn it, AKME do something..

Very Gar/Pax-esque.

John Collins, Drummond, maybe Lonzo are realistically available. Lonzo would have been cheaper at the beginning of the year when he was off to a slow start. But realistically:

Otto and a 2nd for Drummond
2021 1st for Collins
2023 1st for Lonzo Ball

If needed, add WCJ and/or Markk to these. I still would prefer to keep Coby. I think he would do well as a gunner off the bench with a real PG running the offense , be it either Ball or Sato as backup. Eff these 1st round picks. They're overrated. We need real players right now before Zach decides to bolt

[WindyCityBorn]

Donovan also didn't use the Timeout effectively to try to slow down Spurs' surge momentum..

He is also staggered our best players minutes against OKC after they came back. He didn’t do that against the Spurs. Two of Sato, Thad, Zach and Lauri should have been on the court at all times.

I like he was content to lose if if the Bust Brothers(Carter and White) couldn’t get it done. Hell he even left all bums in after the timeout when lead was cut to three. Yeah he tried to salvage it at the end, but the Spurs had taken all of the momentum and we looked shell shocked.

I thought we done losing games trying to “develop” Carter and White, but obviously we aren’t. That was not the coaching of a team set on making the playoffs. We need to accept that White and Carter are busts and treat them like any other bench players. Coby can’t even shoot anymore so he is basically worthless.

[TSS]

What a devastating loss. But it was a .500+ team so we had to find a way to lose one way or another. This time it needed refs, BD and our bench plus back-to-back but we still got it done.

Overall we have now established a few things:
1. Current starting 5 can play extremely nice moving basketball in offense
2. If you apply pressure defense on Bulls you are likely to win the game - this also works well on our U16 girls team
3. Our bench is terrible - I really wish Temple helps rationalize it a bit
4. We are free cheese no matter who is on the court
5. Refs hate the Bulls

I am not really mad at starters blowing the game in the end. They had nothing left in the tank. Folks wanted Zach to take over but you could see from his demeanor that he was exhausted. This loss goes to BD not cutting the spurs run earlier and to Bulls bench. It was absolutely terrifying to watch what Coby and Valentine did on court.

And the refs, wtf, I can straight up remember WCJ foul when where he did not touch the player, twice they drove on Lauri help where he did nothing but stood there with his hands up and the Pwill three pointer foul call where Mills originated the contact. That is 50 % of the fouls the managed to find for Spurs in the whole game.

ELITE
Starting 5 first quarter

GOOD
Zach, fine game until the last minutes when gas was out

OK
Thad, Very good until fourth but a terrible terrible sequence that practically put Bulls out of reach in the end. In his defense, other teams load manage players his age on back to backs. We had to play him too much.
PWill, Very nice boards and one truly terrific pass
Otto, Finally hit his threes but otherwise still 50 years old. My expectations just have fallen low enough to give him an ok.

BAD
Lauri, Looked tired and was not aggressively looking for the ball in offense. Help defense has really come a long way but he gets tagged with Mickey Mouse fouls. Needs to be better in pnr defense like the rest of the team
WCJ, Gazillion fouls - not all good calls - and trouble finishing. Offense flow is drastically worse with him over Thad.
Sato, Folded bad under pressure

TERRIBLE
Coby, Main architect of this loss. We cannot put the ball in his hands, he should only catch and shoot for short periods.
Arci, Not many minutes but really bad on those. Airball on a wide open corner three??
Valentine, The worst player on court. Such terrible shots that one has to imagine if there is any sort of IQ.

[WindyCityBorn]

Maybe the team just gassed out!? Also god damn it, AKME do something..

Very Gar/Pax-esque.

John Collins, Drummond, maybe Lonzo are realistically available. Lonzo would have been cheaper at the beginning of the year when he was off to a slow start. But realistically:

Otto and a 2nd for Drummond
2021 1st for Collins
2023 1st for Lonzo Ball

If needed, add WCJ and/or Markk to these. I still would prefer to keep Coby. I think he would do well as a gunner off the bench with a real PG running the offense , be it either Ball or Sato as backup. Eff these 1st round picks. They're overrated. We need real players right now before Zach decides to bolt

You do not want to see a starting frontcourt of Markkanen and Collins. You don’t want to see Carter start at all. I think we should go ahead and trade for Drummond if Porter and a 2nd round pick would get it done.