What exactly is the plan?

[Bulls619sd]

One step at a time! Make a step this year and get some experience, make Lauri look good, recruit DeRozan, signing and trade for DeRozan, develop players.

[DuckIII]

What's the plan? It's to make Chicago a destination.

We're a major market. We have two All-Stars. We have a player-friendly coach. Someone is going to see joining the Chicago Bulls as a good opportunity.

Pretty clearly yes this is the plan. And though I still have some reservations about yesterday’s decisions (that can be put to rest this summer and hopefully will be), I understand the plan and it’s hard to take issue with the first steps.

One thing I do agree with though is that barring a trade for a third star, the ceiling of AK’s deals are heavily reliant on Patrick Lee Williams becoming the third star.

[jordanwilliams6]

One step at a time! Make a step this year and get some experience, make Lauri look good, recruit DeRozan, signing and trade for DeRozan, develop players.

Thank god you aren’t in charge. A soon to be 32 year old shooting guard (a position we have) that can’t shoot or play defense? Yikes.

[thxfrthmmrs]

They’re not following the Pelicans or Thunder plan and strip everything down and play for the draft for the next 3-5 years.

By adding a solid second option, there is no reason they cannot become a competitive team like the Nuggets, Blazer, Mavs, Heat, and if they build enough depth, the Jazz or the Suns over the next several years. They already have an all star in Zach in his prime. They needed to pick a lane, they decided compete the next several years.

[ChettheJet]

The day after the most major shift n the past decade I doubt very many fans could guess at what the plan is. If you've got a big whiteboard with the roster listed, the contract status mapped out and a spreadsheet with the rest of the league contracts to look over you're off the edge.

The Bulls greatly upgraded the starting 5, and did so without losing any contribution from the bench. With the exception of Vucevic and Aminu taking up Porter's cap space they could still have some to spend. They pass up 2 of the next three drafts but as I've said before you can't rule out buying a late FRP. They have last year's 2nd round pick playing overseas, nobody here knows what he's doing but the Bulls sure do.

Some people see not just sports but their lives with a dark cloud hanging over them every day so my wish would be that those people could find another team to be miserable with.

[MGB8]

I didn't love the idea of trading for Vuc because it wouldn't be a "buy low" trade. And it wasn't two first round picks, near term, with only top-4 protection. That's a big price to pay. (Although Vuc's super-team-friendly contract helps).

So I understand the concern: a team build around LaVine and Vuvecic is not necessarily worlds better than a team built around Fournier and Vuvecic - and that team was, at it's best, an fringe playoff team over the past couple of years.

BUT.... I think this discounts how imbalanced Orlando's roster has been, along with their injury woes. After Vuc and Fournier (who isn't as good as LaVine - hence why in a "career high" year of scoring and efficiency, he was traded for peanuts) - their next best players are either always slow developing in part because they are always hurt (Fultz, Isaac), a guy who is the epitome of any empty-stats player (Aaron Gordon), or the solid but not special Terrance Ross.

This season, the Magic have been starting MCW (hey, we did that!) and James Ennis. Before then they started rookie Cole Anthony (he of the 38% FG, 33% from 3 with little D, pre injury). They've been starting Al-Farouq Aminu at the "3" next to Gordon at the "4", when both guys are really NBA "4s" at this point (especially until Aminu is fully back from injury.

To compare rosters:

Vuc = Vuc
Lavine > Fournier
Lauri = Gordon (and Lauri could well become better)
Williams > Aminu (though if Big Bogans Aminu gets fully healthy, might be different for this season, anyway)
Thad > Ennis
Sato > MCW
Coby < Ross (but that could also change, given age)
Theis > Birch
Temple > Okeke (at this point, I'd bank on Okeke being better over time)
"Big Bogans" Aminu / Valentine / T.Brown.Jr. > Bacon

And the ">" really understates exactly how much better the Bulls players are than the Magic's current counterparts.

Anyway, the move likely pushes the Bulls from 11th to 12th in the East to the playoffs (and they are likely looking to chase the 6th seed, which is about the most that is reasonably possible). Then look to development from Williams, as well as either development or "churning" of Lauri and White --- and potentially adding another piece in FA (or via that "churn"), where playing next to good players often makes mediocre players look better than they actually are (and increases their trade value).

[DJhitek]

Plan is to build around Zach LaVine as the true franchise guy. Now the analytics will come into play and value contracts/decisions will become even more important because you emptied the cupboard. I’m mildly optimistic that they can build a good team, but it will take a lot of things going right, specifically, Patrick Williams becoming a star, for the team to make any ascension above a second round playoff team.

[Ice Man]

BUT.... I think this discounts how imbalanced Orlando's roster has been, along with their injury woes. After Vuc and Fournier (who isn't as good as LaVine - hence why in a "career high" year of scoring and efficiency, he was traded for peanuts) - their next best players are either always slow developing in part because they are always hurt (Fultz, Isaac), a guy who is the epitome of any empty-stats player (Aaron Gordon), or the solid but not special Terrance Ross.

The short version of your very good post is that Vuce has carried this crappy team on his back over the past three years. Yeah his teams have been only .500, but that's an accomplishment considering the quality of his supporting cast. I predict many, many Orlando losses for the remainder of this season.

[bearadonisdna]

wow, this guy deduced everything that happened yesterday of Having 2 allstars on the roster to whether Pat Williams develops or not.

An impressive use of false dichotomy to hinge the result on a player with a 9 PER.
Pat Will is an afterthought not deciding xfactor.

Its reasonable value to lose his salary altogether for cap room to sign a 3rd star.

He is basically saying we are the Raptors pre Kawhi. The raptor stars weren't particularly A list at any skill or attribute.

Zach is an A scorer and A list efficiency for his volume.
Vuc is A list Rebounder and also a #1 option which at least 1 of the raptor stars were not.

Its a great plan to infuse the team with talent at an affordable price without losing many valuable assets.

----------------

To answer the guys question, the plan is to get a pointguard now. Hopefully somebody elite worth building around to solidify the backcourt and not need zach as a psuedo pointguard.

[jake_swivel]

I think a lot of people forget, not just in basketball but in life, that there isn’t always an option that fixes things to the level we want. AK inherited a mess, not just roster-wise, but one of perception.

This organization has not only been poorly run, but just generally disliked. There weren’t moves available to turn the bulls into a contender as far as I can see. It’s why long time fans like myself (almost 30 years) had zero to little interest in even paying attention.

If the options available were to sell everything for future picks, tank a few years, and hope for the best, or to try to slowly build respect with an interesting, watchable, smart team and hope for the best, I’m glad they chose the latter.

[TheSuzerain]

1. Win
2. Attract better players
3. Win more
4. Go to 2

One of the things that was mentioned yesterday was attitude. IMO, one of the reason why the tank treadmill happens on so many teams is that when you start to intentionally lose you create a franchise wide environment where losing begets losing. The end result is that your draft picks don't pick up the little good habits necessary to win games. You draft them, think they suck and eventually let them go only to do the same thing with the new guys later.

The only thing that can break that cycle is a once in a generation draft pick that is so good they can win games by themselves OR a rare hardnose coach like Thibodeau who won't accept bad habits.

The Bulls are clearly trying to clean out the GarPax dross and establish a winning culture and then sign or trade for even better players.

During the offseason, I said that GarPax had given the fanbase PTSD and that most of us completely forget that its possible to trade for good players. Well, here we are. AK has been pretty transparent the whole time. He said this was the plan on day 1. Many (including myself) were just starting to lose patience for it. Yesterday during the press conference, he pretty clearly laid out the plan going forward.

I think this place vastly overrates the extent to which winning helps you attract players.

9 times out of 10, players are taking the biggest contract offered to them. Role on the team and location are probably 2nd/3rd on that list both above "winning". There are occasionally exceptions, especially among ring chasing 35+ year olds.

I think the Vucevic trade calls out for a follow-up move. We need a 3rd star, but it's a bit hard to find an ideal fit unless we're basically punting on defense. Also taking on Aminu in the trade is a definite hindrance to landing that star this summer (which is the ideal time to go for it given both Vuc/Lavine will be on their cheap deals).

I also have to laugh at the idea that Coby/Lauri/WCJ are a function of their environment. Coby is a straight up bum and is not at all talented. Wendell is a mediocre center (aka a MLE player), and Lauri excels at a position that doesn't exist anymore. These were bad draft picks. Not failures of development.

[RagingBull316]

The best plan is having no plan at all. Bulls fans have been talking about 2 to 3 year plans since 1999 and it almost always comes up empty. The best plan is to always be looking for opportunities to make your team better and not sit on your hands worrying about if it's the best move 2-3 years from now.

That's what the good teams do. The Raptors took the opportunity to get Kwahi when they had the chance. They didn't think about where they would be now because 2-3 years later didn't matter to them. It paid off they got a championship out of it, however 1 missed shot or a few injuries don't happen and they could have got nothing out of the deal. But they took a chance and it paid off.

You can't win if you don't take chances, there is no set way to win and not every championship needs to lead to a dynasty.

Sent from my SM-G981U using RealGM mobile app

[The Explorer]

I don't think its true to say Vucevic and Lavine play no defense. Lavine has made nice improvements since last season. Vucevic plays decent man defense.

In any case, you have to change the losing culture in order to become a desirable destination for the top players in the league. The Bulls have been trash for so long that they have been an afterthought for any meaningful free agents. That's no longer the case - why would you be disappointed in this direction?

[coldfish]

1. Win
2. Attract better players
3. Win more
4. Go to 2

One of the things that was mentioned yesterday was attitude. IMO, one of the reason why the tank treadmill happens on so many teams is that when you start to intentionally lose you create a franchise wide environment where losing begets losing. The end result is that your draft picks don't pick up the little good habits necessary to win games. You draft them, think they suck and eventually let them go only to do the same thing with the new guys later.

The only thing that can break that cycle is a once in a generation draft pick that is so good they can win games by themselves OR a rare hardnose coach like Thibodeau who won't accept bad habits.

The Bulls are clearly trying to clean out the GarPax dross and establish a winning culture and then sign or trade for even better players.

During the offseason, I said that GarPax had given the fanbase PTSD and that most of us completely forget that its possible to trade for good players. Well, here we are. AK has been pretty transparent the whole time. He said this was the plan on day 1. Many (including myself) were just starting to lose patience for it. Yesterday during the press conference, he pretty clearly laid out the plan going forward.

I think this place vastly overrates the extent to which winning helps you attract players.

I obviously disagree. While winning may not guarantee that you will land good players, losing makes it impossible. Zero percent. A losing franchise has no shot of a player demanding to come there via trade or agreeing to sign via free agency. A winning team at least has a shot.

9 times out of 10, players are taking the biggest contract offered to them. Role on the team and location are probably 2nd/3rd on that list both above "winning". There are occasionally exceptions, especially among ring chasing 35+ year olds.

At any given time, there are going to be multiple teams who can offer contracts. The guys who are good are looking for big contracts and they will get similar offers from every team. The player is going to choose the winning situation first, then amongst the winning situations they will choose weather.

I also have to laugh at the idea that Coby/Lauri/WCJ are a function of their environment. Coby is a straight up bum and is not at all talented. Wendell is a mediocre center (aka a MLE player), and Lauri excels at a position that doesn't exist anymore. These were bad draft picks. Not failures of development.

Touche. In a different thread I noted that the Bulls missed on every first round pick from 2012 to 2019. These are not good players. Of course, if I concede that then the pro-tanking crowd has to concede that drafting odds are terrible.

[The Real Dalic]

I don't think its true to say Vucevic and Lavine play no defense. Lavine has made nice improvements since last season. Vucevic plays decent man defense.

In any case, you have to change the losing culture in order to become a desirable destination for the top players in the league. The Bulls have been trash for so long that they have been an afterthought for any meaningful free agents. That's no longer the case - why would you be disappointed in this direction?

Can't speak on Lavine, as I haven't been keeping up with the Bulls. But I can tell you that Vuc is an underrated defender. He is decent in 1-on-1 situations, and he tries to be there for his teammates in help defense.

The issue with him is that he's not a great leaper, so he has some issues with rim protection in terms of altering shots and shot-blocking. But he can play solid post defense and can guard multiple positions in 1-on-1 situations.

He's a bit slow though, so hopefully you guys have solid help defenders. Because like I said, he tries to be a help defender, but because of his lack of speed, agility, and lateral quickness, he might not always get there in time to help and then recover.

[TheSuzerain]

1. Win
2. Attract better players
3. Win more
4. Go to 2

One of the things that was mentioned yesterday was attitude. IMO, one of the reason why the tank treadmill happens on so many teams is that when you start to intentionally lose you create a franchise wide environment where losing begets losing. The end result is that your draft picks don't pick up the little good habits necessary to win games. You draft them, think they suck and eventually let them go only to do the same thing with the new guys later.

The only thing that can break that cycle is a once in a generation draft pick that is so good they can win games by themselves OR a rare hardnose coach like Thibodeau who won't accept bad habits.

The Bulls are clearly trying to clean out the GarPax dross and establish a winning culture and then sign or trade for even better players.

During the offseason, I said that GarPax had given the fanbase PTSD and that most of us completely forget that its possible to trade for good players. Well, here we are. AK has been pretty transparent the whole time. He said this was the plan on day 1. Many (including myself) were just starting to lose patience for it. Yesterday during the press conference, he pretty clearly laid out the plan going forward.

I think this place vastly overrates the extent to which winning helps you attract players.

I obviously disagree. While winning may not guarantee that you will land good players, losing makes it impossible. Zero percent. A losing franchise has no shot of a player demanding to come there via trade or agreeing to sign via free agency. A winning team at least has a shot.

9 times out of 10, players are taking the biggest contract offered to them. Role on the team and location are probably 2nd/3rd on that list both above "winning". There are occasionally exceptions, especially among ring chasing 35+ year olds.

At any given time, there are going to be multiple teams who can offer contracts. The guys who are good are looking for big contracts and they will get similar offers from every team. The player is going to choose the winning situation first, then amongst the winning situations they will choose weather.

I also have to laugh at the idea that Coby/Lauri/WCJ are a function of their environment. Coby is a straight up bum and is not at all talented. Wendell is a mediocre center (aka a MLE player), and Lauri excels at a position that doesn't exist anymore. These were bad draft picks. Not failures of development.

Touche. In a different thread I noted that the Bulls missed on every first round pick from 2012 to 2019. These are not good players. Of course, if I concede that then the pro-tanking crowd has to concede that drafting odds are terrible.

Are the Pistons a winning team? Hell no.

Did the Pistons sign Jerami Grant? They did!

Money is #1, #2, and #3 on the list. If there are a bunch of like-kind contracts (e.g. a player has his pick of max contracts), then you get into these secondary factors of which "winning" is one of several. Which of these secondary factors is most influential probably varies player to player.

[Michael Jackson]

Plan is to build around Zach LaVine as the true franchise guy. Now the analytics will come into play and value contracts/decisions will become even more important because you emptied the cupboard. I’m mildly optimistic that they can build a good team, but it will take a lot of things going right, specifically, Patrick Williams becoming a star, for the team to make any ascension above a second round playoff team.

True you are going to be fighting to be a second round team... yet with draft capital you need lots of luck to even get to be a second round team. It’s far from perfect but the alternative is hoping you win the lottery (which is still possible) and waiting 3 yearish to be a legit playoff team. It’s a risk either way. The Bulls are a hundred miles away from being elite... yet they are likely better than the would be relying on draft Capitol. They have enough with Coby and Pat (Brown too now I guess) to develop. There is no sure thing either way but I would rather roll the dice on being competitive and and getting someone who wants to come here over drafting a guy and losing in the modern NBA really Giannis is the only guy who is sticking with his team and most people think he is crazy for having done that.

[Michael Jackson]

I think this place vastly overrates the extent to which winning helps you attract players.

I obviously disagree. While winning may not guarantee that you will land good players, losing makes it impossible. Zero percent. A losing franchise has no shot of a player demanding to come there via trade or agreeing to sign via free agency. A winning team at least has a shot.

9 times out of 10, players are taking the biggest contract offered to them. Role on the team and location are probably 2nd/3rd on that list both above "winning". There are occasionally exceptions, especially among ring chasing 35+ year olds.

At any given time, there are going to be multiple teams who can offer contracts. The guys who are good are looking for big contracts and they will get similar offers from every team. The player is going to choose the winning situation first, then amongst the winning situations they will choose weather.

I also have to laugh at the idea that Coby/Lauri/WCJ are a function of their environment. Coby is a straight up bum and is not at all talented. Wendell is a mediocre center (aka a MLE player), and Lauri excels at a position that doesn't exist anymore. These were bad draft picks. Not failures of development.

Touche. In a different thread I noted that the Bulls missed on every first round pick from 2012 to 2019. These are not good players. Of course, if I concede that then the pro-tanking crowd has to concede that drafting odds are terrible.

Are the Pistons a winning team? Hell no.

Did the Pistons sign Jerami Grant? They did!

Money is #1, #2, and #3 on the list. If there are a bunch of like-kind contracts (e.g. a player has his pick of max contracts), then you get into these secondary factors of which "winning" is one of several. Which of these secondary factors is most influential probably varies player to player.

Maybe to your point, but Grant wasn’t really money because he was offered the same amount to stay with a winning team. He wanted to be the guy on a team though, hen again though we did get Ron Mercer with money and that worked out.

[patryk7754]

The plan should be to add an All-star PG. That's what the team is missing to become a legit contender against the Nets. I think we'll have a decent amount of cap space to go after one of the Free agents but I think our first priority should be Lillard for obvious reasons. I know it's unrealistic so save your pointless comments. If offered a big enough deal the Blazer might consider trading Lillard as a mercy kill since they'll never win a title in Portland and Lillard agrees to it. I think a package such as Sato, Arci, White, Markkenan and a similar picks package the thunder got for PG could be enough to get Lillard.

Lillard
LaVine
Williams
Young
Vuc

If the Blazer expectedly says no then we shift our Focus to Wall and Westbrook. Regardless of how bulls fans view these two, they're both still very obviously all-star talents and we might be able to get a pick in return for eating their contract. After that Sexton would be my next target then go after the available free agents for a team friendly deal because none of them are worth go "all in" for

[patryk7754]

The Blazers should have made a huge move to get someone next to Lillard even if that meant trading CJ. Lillard is in danger of becoming the next Barkley and the Blazers may be convinced to give Lillard a real shot at a title