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Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer

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Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#1 » by ChicagoSportsFan21 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:11 pm

Can anyone break down how much cap space the Bulls will have in layman’s term and what realistic targets Bulls can go after this summer? I have heard mixed answers about cap space so I’m not sure exactly how much cap space the Bulls will have this summer. It’s pretty obvious the priority should be offering Lavine a max contract if possible and targeting a PG/PF with a bigger emphasis on PG this summer.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#2 » by IamSam » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:33 pm

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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#3 » by Cabbage bulls » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:58 pm

From what I understand, space for a max contract can he made by waiving Thad and Sato (that would result in a 6m and 5m cap hit, respectively), and/or getting rid of Lauri. I'm not completely positive, but it is something along those lines.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#4 » by rozzman » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:32 pm

Bulls might better work a S&T.

IMO they could send two of either Lauri, Coby, Sato, Aminu, Young or PW in exchange for a very good PG.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#5 » by Evil_Headband » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:35 pm

I expect them to act as an over the cap team, bring back Lauri, Thad and Sato and try to make improvements by the MLE and by trade.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#6 » by Cabbage bulls » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:40 pm

Evil_Headband wrote:I expect them to act as an over the cap team, bring back Lauri, Thad and Sato and try to make improvements by the MLE and by trade.

We're getting Kwahi bro
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#7 » by sco » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:45 pm

My realistic target list after letting Lauri walk:

Ball
Horton-Tucker
Schroder
Fournier
Rose
Caruso
Noel
Payton
Forbes
Giles
Trent
Oubre
Theiss
Burks
Winslow
Barton
Dinwiddie
Jones Jr.
Morris (Markief)
Jackson
Bradley (Tony)
Brown (Moses)
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#8 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:05 pm

There's no way to "break down how much cap space the Bulls will have in layman’s term".

Ignore that Spotrac.com link, it's not in layman's terms, and it's not even accurate. They list our "Practical Cap Space" at $23,802,420 - in reality, we can get to over $36 million in cap space with no help from any other team.

That would involve letting Lauri walk, and doing a waive & stretch on Thad, Sato and Aminu. We would then be able to sign a maximum salary free agent who has played 9 years or less in the NBA.

Evil_Headband is probably right, unless we know on July 31 that a max free agent wants to sign here, we'll just keep Thad, Sato and Aminu and operate over the salary cap. We'd have the Full MLE, which is close to $10 million first year salary, and I believe we'd also have the Bi-Annual Exception of somewhere around $4 million (but I could be wrong on the BAE).
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#9 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:13 pm

You can go to the "What exactly is the plan" thread, I break down our maximum potential cap space for each of the next 2 summers:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2067124

I guess the closest I can come to "layman's terms" is to say that we can create maximum salary cap space (a little over $36 million) each of the next 2 summers while still keeping Zach, Vuc, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#10 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:22 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:You can go to the "What exactly is the plan" thread, I break down our maximum potential cap space for each of the next 2 summers:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2067124

I guess the closest I can come to "layman's terms" is to say that we can create maximum salary cap space (a little over $36 million) each of the next 2 summers while still keeping Zach, Vuc, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams.


2022 is a potentially really interesting FA year. This summer not too much. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do, because that max cap room in 2022 might actually be something they can action into a real star player, but to have it, they can't take on any cap room this year that extends past this year.

If they choose to play in 2022, the best case scenario for them might actually be to keep Sato/Thad (Because they'll both expire and both help next year) and have Lauri play on the QO (same situation then). Keeps as much talent together as possible while allowing the team to do as well as possible and then make the pitch to a FA.

If they do choose to sign guys this year (which also makes sense for obvious reasons of trying to continue to build on what they did in the deadline), then they probably lose the ability to do so in 2022 (but clearly depends on what moves they make, though it is hard to see significant additions that last just one year on the cap or are low enough in salary to move the needle).
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#11 » by WindyCityBorn » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:31 pm

sco wrote:My realistic target list after letting Lauri walk:

Ball
Horton-Tucker
Schroder
Fournier
Rose
Caruso
Noel
Payton
Forbes
Giles
Trent
Oubre
Theiss
Burks
Winslow
Barton
Dinwiddie
Jones Jr.
Morris (Markief)
Jackson
Bradley (Tony)
Brown (Moses)


I’m not sold we let Lauri walk. I think they would try to work a sign and trade at minimum.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#12 » by sco » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:33 pm

dougthonus wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:You can go to the "What exactly is the plan" thread, I break down our maximum potential cap space for each of the next 2 summers:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2067124

I guess the closest I can come to "layman's terms" is to say that we can create maximum salary cap space (a little over $36 million) each of the next 2 summers while still keeping Zach, Vuc, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams.


2022 is a potentially really interesting FA year. This summer not too much. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do, because that max cap room in 2022 might actually be something they can action into a real star player, but to have it, they can't take on any cap room this year that extends past this year.

If they choose to play in 2022, the best case scenario for them might actually be to keep Sato/Thad (Because they'll both expire and both help next year) and have Lauri play on the QO (same situation then). Keeps as much talent together as possible while allowing the team to do as well as possible and then make the pitch to a FA.

If they do choose to sign guys this year (which also makes sense for obvious reasons of trying to continue to build on what they did in the deadline), then they probably lose the ability to do so in 2022 (but clearly depends on what moves they make, though it is hard to see significant additions that last just one year on the cap or are low enough in salary to move the needle).


First of all, is there really a situation where Lauri takes the QO? He's likely to get a number of good offers in the $80M+ range...either the Bulls match or they won't.

Second, given Vuc's age/contract and Zach's contract situation, I think that the FO will be aggressive looking for trades - granted we don't have 1st round picks to use. It is possible that PWill in concert with some combo of Thad, Coby and/or Sato gets you someone good.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#13 » by Stratmaster » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:35 pm

sco wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:You can go to the "What exactly is the plan" thread, I break down our maximum potential cap space for each of the next 2 summers:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2067124

I guess the closest I can come to "layman's terms" is to say that we can create maximum salary cap space (a little over $36 million) each of the next 2 summers while still keeping Zach, Vuc, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams.


2022 is a potentially really interesting FA year. This summer not too much. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do, because that max cap room in 2022 might actually be something they can action into a real star player, but to have it, they can't take on any cap room this year that extends past this year.

If they choose to play in 2022, the best case scenario for them might actually be to keep Sato/Thad (Because they'll both expire and both help next year) and have Lauri play on the QO (same situation then). Keeps as much talent together as possible while allowing the team to do as well as possible and then make the pitch to a FA.

If they do choose to sign guys this year (which also makes sense for obvious reasons of trying to continue to build on what they did in the deadline), then they probably lose the ability to do so in 2022 (but clearly depends on what moves they make, though it is hard to see significant additions that last just one year on the cap or are low enough in salary to move the needle).


First of all, is there really a situation where Lauri takes the QO? He's likely to get a number of good offers in the $80M+ range...either the Bulls match or they won't.

Second, given Vuc's age/contract and Zach's contract situation, I think that the FO will be aggressive looking for trades - granted we don't have 1st round picks to use. It is possible that PWill in concert with some combo of Thad, Coby and/or Sato gets you someone good.
I don't think it is a given he will get that much... but likely better than a QO.

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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#14 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:36 pm

sco wrote:First of all, is there really a situation where Lauri takes the QO? He's likely to get a number of good offers in the $80M+ range...either the Bulls match or they won't.


Agreed, this is probably true.

Second, given Vuc's age/contract and Zach's contract situation, I think that the FO will be aggressive looking for trades - granted we don't have 1st round picks to use. It is possible that PWill in concert with some combo of Thad, Coby and/or Sato gets you someone good.


This could be true too, though separate from my cap analysis. A trade likely also pulls you out of 2022 FA plan. I think you'd probably trade Pat + Coby + Sato (for salary) and keep Thad in this scenario. The type of team trading you a really high quality vet (possibly a star) likely doesn't value Thad as much as we do (while trying to win) and likely wants the prospect types like Coby/Pat.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#15 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:40 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:I’m not sold we let Lauri walk. I think they would try to work a sign and trade at minimum.


I think we should try, but S&Ts for teams over the cap are hard to work out due to base year compensation and for teams under the cap there is little incentive for them to make such a trade since they can just dare us to match. It is very rare for S&Ts to bring back significant value.

Much like the situation with Lonzo, a good chunk of how scared teams are of us matching will be based on how the rest of the season goes. Currently, it doesn't feel like Lauri is a great fit to me going forward, but after we play some games that might prove wrong. Maybe he'll look outstanding next to Vuc's passing or get some other positive synergy that is greater than anticipated.

One situation to look out for, is the Bulls do a S&T with Lauri for 20M (or whatever number) to another team and then do something like a 2nd pick swap so we can create a 20M cap exception to use in the future. Often in this scenario, we actually send out a better pick than receiving, but that flexibility of having that future trade exception is often very valuable.

For the trade exception path to work, we'd need to work that out with a team under the cap. These deals have become common in recent times for teams losing FAs so that they can use it as a cap loop hole later. Typically the other team will do it given that it is irrelevant to them either way.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#16 » by DJhitek » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:00 pm

Doesn’t a sign and trade hard cap the team if they are already over the cap?
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#17 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:01 pm

DJhitek wrote:Doesn’t a sign and trade hard cap the team if they are already over the cap?


The signing team is hard capped. I'd assume you're talking about S&Ting Lauri that wouldn't hard cap us but the team getting Lauri. If we did a S&T for Lonzo or someone similar then we'd be hard capped.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#18 » by DJhitek » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:03 pm

dougthonus wrote:
DJhitek wrote:Doesn’t a sign and trade hard cap the team if they are already over the cap?


The signing team is hard capped. I'd assume you're talking about S&Ting Lauri, which wouldn't hard cap ups but the team getting Lauri. If we did a S&T for Lonzo or someone similar then we'd be hard capped.


I was thinking about a Lonzo deal if that were the route.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#19 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:10 pm

dougthonus wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:You can go to the "What exactly is the plan" thread, I break down our maximum potential cap space for each of the next 2 summers:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2067124

I guess the closest I can come to "layman's terms" is to say that we can create maximum salary cap space (a little over $36 million) each of the next 2 summers while still keeping Zach, Vuc, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams.


2022 is a potentially really interesting FA year. This summer not too much. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do, because that max cap room in 2022 might actually be something they can action into a real star player, but to have it, they can't take on any cap room this year that extends past this year.

If they choose to play in 2022, the best case scenario for them might actually be to keep Sato/Thad (Because they'll both expire and both help next year) and have Lauri play on the QO (same situation then). Keeps as much talent together as possible while allowing the team to do as well as possible and then make the pitch to a FA.

If they do choose to sign guys this year (which also makes sense for obvious reasons of trying to continue to build on what they did in the deadline), then they probably lose the ability to do so in 2022 (but clearly depends on what moves they make, though it is hard to see significant additions that last just one year on the cap or are low enough in salary to move the needle).


Yeah, the only way I see anything happening this summer is in the very remote possibility that a big-time player who is under contract for only next season wants to come play here. And the trade would have to take place before August 1st, so that the other team can make use of the partially guaranteed deals of Thad and/or Sato. But the chances of that happening are slim, very slim, and almost zero.

It depends on what happens the rest of this season, but as I type this the best scenario is probably the one you mentioned where we keep Thad and Sato for next season and go for cap space in the summer of 2022. But of course, that also depends on which free agents are available in Summer 2022, and which ones sign extensions before then.

And Lauri is still a wild-card. Maybe he struggles the rest of the season, can't get a decent offer this summer because he's Restricted, and comes back next season on the QO? If Ben Gordon couldn't get an offer sheet coming off his first 4 years, maybe Lauri can't because teams are worried we'll just match? Maybe he blows up being the 3rd option instead of the 2nd?

I can say one thing with certainty - I am a helluva lot more excited about the rest of this season than I was when I went to bed Wednesday night.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#20 » by pipfan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:17 pm

I think we should operate as an over the cap team. Keep everyone, and win games. If Williams blows up, we could really have something

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