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Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer

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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#21 » by GoBlue72391 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:45 pm

sco wrote:My realistic target list after letting Lauri walk:

Ball
Horton-Tucker
Schroder
Fournier
Rose
Caruso
Noel
Payton
Forbes
Giles
Trent
Oubre
Theiss
Burks
Winslow
Barton
Dinwiddie
Jones Jr.
Morris (Markief)
Jackson
Bradley (Tony)
Brown (Moses)

The problem is that all but a handful of those guys are worse than Lauri, many considerably so. That's the problem with letting Lauri walk, replacing him one or two bit players doesn't solve anything.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#22 » by sco » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:04 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
sco wrote:My realistic target list after letting Lauri walk:

Ball
Horton-Tucker
Schroder
Fournier
Rose
Caruso
Noel
Payton
Forbes
Giles
Trent
Oubre
Theiss
Burks
Winslow
Barton
Dinwiddie
Jones Jr.
Morris (Markief)
Jackson
Bradley (Tony)
Brown (Moses)

The problem is that all but a handful of those guys are worse than Lauri, many considerably so. That's the problem with letting Lauri walk, replacing him one or two bit players doesn't solve anything.

IMO, we're much better off getting a 3-D SF and/or a 3-D PG and shift PWill to the PF position. "Better than Lauri" is a heavily debated point. We now have 2 elite scorers, we should focus on 3-D glue guys...that's why I like Ball.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#23 » by Leslie Forman » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:52 pm

dougthonus wrote:2022 is a potentially really interesting FA year.

I don't really see how any of the big names end up here, because even assuming after you've just given Zach a max deal and renounced everyone except him, Vucevic, Pat, Coby, and your '22 pick, you don't actually have enough cap room for a gigantic 10+ year vet max. And even if you did…I don't see why they would come to Chicago, or even be wanted by them in the first place.

Harden (likely just signs an extension before free agency)
Durant (same)
Kyrie (unless the guys above are coming with him, dear god no)
Steph (he ain't goin nowhere, he is retiring there, or maybe Charlotte when he's 40)
Beal (well what's the point of that)
Jimmy (lol)
Paul (you really wanna sign a 37-year-old PG?)

The closest thing to a "star" you're basically left with is…Randle.

I think what happens is you see the same team next year with maybe a random semi-cheap vet PG like a Patty Mills. And then in '22, it's the team without Thad/Sato and maybe an attempt at a Thad replacement like a Covington.

I think they save up for 2023 and go after VanVleet (Hey Rockford! That's almost Chicago!) or Brogdon, or do the equivalent of the Vucevic trade before free agency, and trade for another B-lister still under contract like a CJ McCollum or something, nuking all the cap space.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#24 » by kodo » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:53 pm

There's a lot of decision points AK has to make before we know our cap space.

But a lot of the more optimistic cap space scenarios involve releasing both Thad and Sato. Sato is our only viable PG IMO, and the remaining position of greatest weakness on the team. Thad has the highest +/- on the team. I don't think it's a clear cut decision to just create as much cap space as possible.

At this point last year I think the board was convinced both guys were just walking partially guaranteed contracts for this offseason's FA class for Foreman, but everything has changed since then.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#25 » by basketballRob » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:04 pm

Fournier is best friends with Vuc. They came out together for shootaround for the last 7 years. Vuc speaks French also.

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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#26 » by MrSparkle » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:05 pm

GarPax method was clearing cap for mystery FAs. I think new strategy will be filling over the cap with good salaries (which end up being trade assets).

This summer will be the last chance for a while to add some FA talent, so pressure is on to make high impact moves.

Unless somebody ends up being a horrible fit, there should be interest in resigning the Celtics pickups. Javonte, like Troy, is very interesting - athletic, handles, can pass... just need to work on their shots.

I’m realistically expecting most this roster back next season (considering most the deadweight is gone). Now that we have more athletic ballhandlers than scrubs, Lauri might actually even have a purpose. Replace Felicio and Arci with a better PG.

Definitely some options. I’d stay away from signing any 30+yo “stars” (Lowry, Derozan, etc.)
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#27 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 pm

kodo wrote:There's a lot of decision points AK has to make before we know our cap space.

But a lot of the more optimistic cap space scenarios involve releasing both Thad and Sato. Sato is our only viable PG IMO, and the remaining position of greatest weakness on the team. Thad has the highest +/- on the team. I don't think it's a clear cut decision to just create as much cap space as possible.

At this point last year I think the board was convinced both guys were just walking partially guaranteed contracts for this offseason's FA class for Foreman, but everything has changed since then.


If you are going to spend money this year, you virtually have to get Lonzo in FA or trade for a different PG if you release Sato/Thad to gain cap room.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#28 » by rozzman » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:46 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:Ignore that Spotrac.com link, it's not in layman's terms, and it's not even accurate. They list our "Practical Cap Space" at $23,802,420 - in reality, we can get to over $36 million in cap space with no help from any other team.

That would involve letting Lauri walk, and doing a waive & stretch on Thad, Sato and Aminu. We would then be able to sign a maximum salary free agent who has played 9 years or less in the NBA.


$23,802,420 should be more than enough to sign Lonzo or Kyle Lowry, right? Bulls wont have to loose Lauri for it?
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#29 » by CaPiTanAK » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:49 am

Moses Brown on the Thunder needs to be on this list

I am willing to entertain playing Troy Brown at pg or give him point shooting guard or point small forward duties.

We might just have our future starting point guard on the roster.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#30 » by CaPiTanAK » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:51 am

rozzman wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:Ignore that Spotrac.com link, it's not in layman's terms, and it's not even accurate. They list our "Practical Cap Space" at $23,802,420 - in reality, we can get to over $36 million in cap space with no help from any other team.

That would involve letting Lauri walk, and doing a waive & stretch on Thad, Sato and Aminu. We would then be able to sign a maximum salary free agent who has played 9 years or less in the NBA.


$23,802,420 should be more than enough to sign Lonzo or Kyle Lowry, right? Bulls wont have to loose Lauri for it?


Lauri can pack his bag. He is what he is. A Ryan Anderson clone. No interest on that kind of player on this team.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#31 » by ChettheJet » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:18 pm

It's a long way from draft day, FA season and everything else.

On the one hand I'm guessing AKME have seen the players we got, Green, Brown, Theis, Aminu enough to know if they stick next year. Unless they were severely held back on BOS, ORL or WASH they aren't starters but could form a different bench than we have now.

I don't know if it's the right play to buyout Young and Satoransky to get a max FA unless they know in advance he's coming. Which is supposed to be illegal. To let them go and then be forced to settle for someone on the 1C list doesn't improve their chances. I think it has to be a moving target, first see just who they can get at the forward spot and PG and decide where one new player fits with one of the current pair or if two new guys replace them.

Today I would not be willing to resign Lauri for an $80M, he usually looks like he's worth that but at times he's invisible and then there's the injury thing hanging over him. Granted a S&T looks good but as mentioned above, the number of teams that would want him and could fit him in might be limited.

Right now the Bulls have a very veteran bench but having added Brown, Green, and having Dotson get off his folding chair they could come back with some from the current veteran bunch of Temple, Valentine, Arcidiancono, Aminu, any of which could look to move on. There are times when the current veteran bench is great and there are times when the same deliberate move the ball around game doesn't work. LIke when Valentine is on from behind the line he's a killer, when he's not he doesn't have the drive to the basket game to make up for it. Maybe a couple of young guys who push things to break up a run could be the answer.

I'm wavering on Coby White. Coming off the bench he's obviously the best offensive player on the floor. Can he have confidence that the other four guys will get him the ball in good positions, are they trying, or is he more of a one on one guy when the other guys can't get a good look. If he's out there with Young, Temple and Valentine is he too fast for them to keep up with? I wouldn't spend the off season shopping him around but I'd have to look at offers to fill another open spot.

One wild card that hasn't been a thing for the Bulls, recruiting by the players, might be the thing to get going on right now. Let's have Zach and Vucevic talk to guys they know and have them sell coming in as part of a trio that has an emerging PW becoming their fourth and making a run at it next year.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#32 » by Michael Jackson » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:24 pm

rozzman wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:Ignore that Spotrac.com link, it's not in layman's terms, and it's not even accurate. They list our "Practical Cap Space" at $23,802,420 - in reality, we can get to over $36 million in cap space with no help from any other team.

That would involve letting Lauri walk, and doing a waive & stretch on Thad, Sato and Aminu. We would then be able to sign a maximum salary free agent who has played 9 years or less in the NBA.


$23,802,420 should be more than enough to sign Lonzo or Kyle Lowry, right? Bulls wont have to loose Lauri for it?



Reports were that Lowry wants 50 million over 2 years so maybe that’s doable but I think he is looking to contend which they Bulls won’t just by adding him. They would be a playoff team for sure but still a ways away from actual contention.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#33 » by rozzman » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:45 pm

What about Mike Conley? He's playing well and has said he'd love to stay in Utah, but maybe he commands more than they are willing to pay. It will depend on what he prioritizes (money or tittle contending) but I think he would be a good fit for the bulls for a 25-30 MPG.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#34 » by The Force. » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:21 pm

I think Ball is the best option we have in the FA market for '21 and '22. He's obviously a project but at least there's a modicum of potential there, whereas the other PG options are basically washed.

Another option would be trading Coby and Sato to the Spurs for Derrick White and Rudy Gay. The Spurs would have to really like Coby in this deal but I believe it's fair value both ways. Derrick White is an ideal fit with Zach as he's a solid PG who actually plays defense while being a passable shooter.

Just an example but the above scenario is what we'll likely have to settle for if Ball is unattainable.

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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#35 » by Michael Jackson » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:24 pm

rozzman wrote:What about Mike Conley? He's playing well and has said he'd love to stay in Utah, but maybe he commands more than they are willing to pay. It will depend on what he prioritizes (money or tittle contending) but I think he would be a good fit for the bulls for a 25-30 MPG.



I like the Conley idea but if the Jazz end up in the WCF I can’t see him leaving, unless Utah just won’t pay him anything at all.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#36 » by TheSuzerain » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:27 pm

THT is better than most all of these options.

THT with cap space, then grab Ntilikina with the room exception.

Ntilikina
Lavine
THT
PWill
Vuc
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#37 » by TheStig » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:28 pm

dougthonus wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:You can go to the "What exactly is the plan" thread, I break down our maximum potential cap space for each of the next 2 summers:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2067124

I guess the closest I can come to "layman's terms" is to say that we can create maximum salary cap space (a little over $36 million) each of the next 2 summers while still keeping Zach, Vuc, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams.


2022 is a potentially really interesting FA year. This summer not too much. It will be interesting to see what the Bulls do, because that max cap room in 2022 might actually be something they can action into a real star player, but to have it, they can't take on any cap room this year that extends past this year.

If they choose to play in 2022, the best case scenario for them might actually be to keep Sato/Thad (Because they'll both expire and both help next year) and have Lauri play on the QO (same situation then). Keeps as much talent together as possible while allowing the team to do as well as possible and then make the pitch to a FA.

If they do choose to sign guys this year (which also makes sense for obvious reasons of trying to continue to build on what they did in the deadline), then they probably lose the ability to do so in 2022 (but clearly depends on what moves they make, though it is hard to see significant additions that last just one year on the cap or are low enough in salary to move the needle).

There is absolutely no chance Lauri plays on the QO.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#38 » by TheSuzerain » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:32 pm

Not trading Lauri/Thad/Sato for value ( however small) and expirings is going to look bad. Also taking back Aminu.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#39 » by sco » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:44 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:THT is better than most all of these options.

THT with cap space, then grab Ntilikina with the room exception.

Ntilikina
Lavine
THT
PWill
Vuc

THT on a poison pill offer would be my first choice. I think that guy will move the needle the most for us. Ball on $20M/yr deal is my 2nd choice. If we do Ball, I could see trading Sato as a salary dump...might even be able use him to offload Aminu's salary.

I might be willing to see if we could package White/PWill/filler to try to pry Grant from DET.
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Re: Cap Space+Realistic Targets this Summer 

Post#40 » by Tetlak » Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:00 pm

We're not getting Kawhi, Lonzo is not worth the 20+ mil it will take to get him, and there's not much else out there. I propose a big one year deal to Kelly Oubre so we can retain flexibility while getting a pretty good fit/2 way player.

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