PG: Bulls @ Spurs - Ain't Even Stressin' It Edition

[DuckIII]

For people that don't like a player, nothing will ever be good enough. Rationale is irrelevant.

Keep that in mind when seeing posts on the board. It will save you some frustration.

The best argument against someone entrenched in a clearly wrong argument is silence. If you disagree I can introduce you to some people I know who think Donald Trump might still be President. Let me know how that goes.

[RSP83]

I still see much better roster out there than our previous one. Going forward, it's all on BD to figure it out.

[DuckIII]

It might very well be that a Lauri and Vuce experiment won’t work out. But I refuse to believe that last night was anything but the absolute floor of our horribleness.

Last night is a game you just blow off. You get a handful of those every season. Perfect storm. New players, Zach playing at an injury level way below 80-90% (should not have played at all, but I admire his desire to get started with the new guys immediately and be a gutsy leader), and outlier poor shooting.

Sometimes so many things go perfectly right that you can’t take much away from the game either. Just life in the marathon of an NBA season.

[sco]

First of all, kudos to SA, they have a great coach and system. It shows what happens when you have roster and coach continuity. Guys make fewer mistakes on both ends and the system becomes instinctual. We have the opposite of that. I was glad to see a sense of professional pride in the comeback.

Zach's mistake was playing hurt, but he is trying to show he's a leader...I'm not gonna fault him.

Vuc is an offensive big and nobody should be surprised by that, but we need to surround him with better defenders.

Lauri, IMO, has been mentally out of sorts as the trade deadline has approached and I'll cut him a little slack as he is likely to be marginalized. That said, if we want to win, we should probably bench him in favor of some defense.

I definitely belong to the Thibs school of rookie mgmt. They should not start, because benching them can be mentally damaging. PWill is playing not to make mistakes instead of aggressively. To be fair, he's the 5th option and that is in some ways harder than being the 1st option. Defensively, he is trying not to commit fouls. I'll call it Carter syndrome.

White isn't a PG, and BD should be upfront and change his role to pure PG.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

That is a big yikes from Donovan.

Something I'd expect from Boylen.

This nothing to me. I know NBA has runs and all but the actually chance of coming from 20+ behind, on the road, made it very unlikely, especially when you have basically a new team. It's not a good look from the coach but I'm not worrying about it either.

I don’t care about this either. Two additional considerations:

1. It was obvious all game that BD was playing mad scientist with rotations. Obviously we shot horribly and Lavine was hobbled which, among other things, caused the score to get out of hand early. Regardless, BD was experimenting. Another reason he may have been willing to throw in the towel early and mix things up.

2. I’m not saying it’s what happened, but it would be a very “coach” thing to test a new player’s mindset by offering him an easy way out to see if he takes it.

Also have to think it’s been a stressful 2 days for Vuc. Finding out he’s traded then immediately get moving to Chicago. Dudes probably had like 8 hours of sleep combined the last 2 days.

As a Magic fan I’ll leave with this. Dude will play as long and as hard as he can, he’s not going to ask out or sulk. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a more complete professional on/off the court. Y’all enjoy him!!

[Hugi Mancura]

I wouldn't sort by percentile for offense, that's sorting by FG%. The highest percentile guys are guys who rarely run the play, Duncan Robinson, Nnaji, DiVincenzo. They only average 0.2 to 0.4 possession per game.

If you sort by percentile for P&R ballhandlers, the highest percentile P&R ballhandler in the league is Lauri Markkanen.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/ball-handler/#!?sort=PERCENTILE&dir=1

I would sort by Points. That gives Luka Doncic, which is closer to the "best" P&R ballhandler in the league.
By points, the highest P&R rollman is Vucevic.

I saw that too with Lauri, but that's only with like 10 possessions. If you see my above post, I sorted it through what I think is the best way to look at these stats. Being the most in total points doesn't necessarily mean that you're the best at it, which is why I look at Points Per Possession.

Team sports are games of opportunities. If you given opportunity to do thing where you have been successful then you might have a chance to show your skills, but instead if your job is to do something else then it might be possible you never get a chance to do things where you are on your best. This is a good example. In general everyone in basketball believes you should have a guard and a big man doing PnR. Heck, even I believe so. Instead in these four years with Bulls Lauri has been best ball handler in PnR plays. Is this statistical phenomenon or not we can't know unless Bulls give him more opportunities to do this. Are Bulls going to do that? No.

Points per possession is also misleading. If you have two players where one has 10 opportunities in game and another have 1 opportunity. The player with 10 opportunities will always win in PPP, even if he would be worst player in history of NBA.

Same thing with post up. Everyone is saying Lauri sucks as post player. Well, he scores 1.13 per attempt this year. Vuc is scoring 0.90 points. Who would you rather have playing in post? I know Lauri have sucked as a post player in earlier years, but there was this 9 month break, so maybe he has practiced it during the break. And it doesn't matter if person look uncomfortable while doing something. Only thing that matters is the final result. But even on post attempts Lauri's amount of post plays is so low it might be statistical anomaly.

Is the coaching staff preventing Lauri to do these things? PnR needs two players, so he can't decide to do it alone. Post doesn't need two players (someone does need to pass the ball), but even then I don't know what coaching staff has said to Lauri (or other Bulls players). Nobody in here knows. So I won't say one way or another. Lauri is a player who almost blindly does what coaching staff asks him to do, so if they say don't stay near basket then he doesn't even if he is defended by short person.

[Magic beans]

First of all, kudos to SA, they have a great coach and system. It shows what happens when you have roster and coach continuity. Guys make fewer mistakes on both ends and the system becomes instinctual. We have the opposite of that. I was glad to see a sense of professional pride in the comeback.

Zach's mistake was playing hurt, but he is trying to show he's a leader...I'm not gonna fault him.

Vuc is an offensive big and nobody should be surprised by that, but we need to surround him with better defenders.

Lauri, IMO, has been mentally out of sorts as the trade deadline has approached and I'll cut him a little slack as he is likely to be marginalized. That said, if we want to win, we should probably bench him in favor of some defense.

I definitely belong to the Thibs school of rookie mgmt. They should not start, because benching them can be mentally damaging. PWill is playing not to make mistakes instead of aggressively. To be fair, he's the 5th option and that is in some ways harder than being the 1st option. Defensively, he is trying not to commit fouls. I'll call it Carter syndrome.

White isn't a PG, and BD should be upfront and change his role to pure PG.

Great assessment of the game and current state of affairs.

Only have a further level of respect for Zach for wanting to play and solidify his leadership role. If playoffs are our goal then we have to start Thad with Vuc.

Lauri just can’t cut it defensively, and his level of offensive production does not warrant a starting spot. Unfortunately this is reality. Just hope we can get some compensation for him.

I think most will agree Coby is not the answer at point. The Lauri & Coby conundrums are for BD to resolve. We have a fair picture of these two players. I’m not opposed to giving TBJ etc more pt.

[Magic beans]

Also I would rather Pwill get his minutes, top 4 pick got to play and try and establish himself. It’s my opinion this kid has massive potential on both sides of the floor. Now let’s see it hopefully with some consistency.

[DuckIII]

I definitely belong to the Thibs school of rookie mgmt. They should not start, because benching them can be mentally damaging. PWill is playing not to make mistakes instead of aggressively. To be fair, he's the 5th option and that is in some ways harder than being the 1st option. Defensively, he is trying not to commit fouls. I'll call it Carter syndrome.

The problem with the “5th man rookie” rationale for explaining Patrick Lee Williams’ offense - which is in fact my rationale as well - is that it’s not aging well. Due to his defense.

It becomes increasingly difficult to accept his offensive passivity as merely a product of role when his defensive nosedive is marked by poor effort and a distracted mentality. Both his awareness and effort are in steep decline.

And he’s not officiated unfairly as a rookie like we’ve seen in the past with guys like Wendell and Taj. He’s not scared of fouling. He’s just not committing physically or mentally on that end at this point.

As I said the other day, I may be suffering from PTWLS (post traumatic Wendell/Lauri syndrome), and therefore see mental weakness and passivity lurking everywhere in the shadows just waiting to emerge. But it’s troubling to me.

And it’s especially frustrating to see in a player whose physical and skill profile has such a high ceiling.

[Greek_Bulls_Fan]

Interested to see how our frontcourt combinations look like with Theis back but Lauri should be getting DNP's if we're serious about making the Playoffs, it's unbelievable how much he's hurting us

[DJhitek]

Predictable outcome considering the circumstances. I’d be very tempted to bench both Lauri and Pat if I were Donavan. They just don’t bring enough on either end to compliment the starters IMO.

[Michael Jackson]

As I noted in the "what's the plan" thread, I'll accept my title as "worlds biggest idiot"

Random comments:
- The Spurs were sitting on the Bulls' offense. They did so by crowding the high post with 3 players. Everyone in the league might pick up on that quickly and if so, BD is going to have to come up with a counter. Last night, like before, Popovich destroyed BD tactically.
- Brown, Aminu, Theis and Green are going to take minutes and possibly starting jobs from Pat, Lauri and Val.
- The guy I'll call out is Coby. He may have been on the court during some good play but it largely wasn't him. His defense continues to be horrendous and so does his decision making with the ball.

Shiny new toy syndrome. Aminu?? Are you trolling? He's absolutely worthless. You can't play these non-skilled "effort" dudes at PF anymore. It's not 1996. The last time he cracked .300 from the perimeter was in 2018. Plus he's 30 years old so he's this close to being out of the league with his nonexistent skillset.

I understand there's a tendency to get swept up in all the excitement of the trade deadline and start announcing ALL the players coming our way are somehow nice pieces, but let's pump the brakes here. Aminu shouldn't even be in the rotation, FFS.

Green is another basketball non-entity. He's end-of-the-bench bound.

Brown has some promise and he's the one that has an actual chance of breaking into the starting lineup. He's already considerably better than PWill.

Theis will play a lot, but he won't be starting. He's the backup C, by necessity. Thad returns to the bench. His old seat is probably still warm.

Of course that always happens. In Washington Hutch and Gafford are slated now as future all stars. Every player just needs a change of scenery right?

[BeatDaCavs420]

Not even worried about the loss. More worried about Zach. Someone needs to step in and rest him for a week or 2.

[bearadonisdna]

getting Vuc aint about winning now.

Fixing the center was about solidifying the roster and possibly salvaging Lauri.

The win now move was point guard.
Which is ok. Solidifying the roster, making us more attractive destination is possibly more important to rebuild than fighting for the playoffs.

Can we steal some wins? sure but if we dont , i understand why.

[MrSparkle]

The short-term difficulty of this trade- a lot of demotions need to happen, and they need to develop quick camaraderie.

But also, I really don’t want to see a lay-up party at Vuc’s expense. We have 14 playable guys, and mostly consolidated in the PF zone. In some ways, pushing Pat and Lauri to the back end of the rotation would make sense, but I doubt anyone wants to do that. Billy has his work cut out to find the right combinations here, with no time to work with.

[FecesOfDeath]

Just wait for Theis to arrive. Blue collar Chicago Bulls basketball is coming back.

[Michael Jackson]

Just wait for Theis to arrive. Blue collar Chicago Bulls basketball is coming back.

Theis is solid and all but he isn’t some player who magically changes much. Definetly gives more inside presence which we are lacking but he will still really be alone out on an island out there and very well may end up looking worse than he did in Boston.

[D_GoLow]

Adjustments, put Thad back in the starting 5 and bring Lauri off the bench with Thies. He should produce against 2nd units.

[Bulliever2020]

Lauri and Vuc can not play together long term. Just a sieve defensively. Bringing Vuc in means Lauri is as good as gone imo.

[SfBull]

Might be time for Zach to miss a few games. I don’t want this injury lingering the rest of the season. Start Brown in his place.

Lauri continues to toss up bricks on the most open 3s you could hope for. He is gone after the season. Williams was putrid. PG is still a big problem. We have a backup and a low skill SG there.

Vuc was solid considering he was barely involved the first half.

Our best option can be a draft day trade involving Lauri bringing us a pg like Ball.