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Who is the next target?

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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#181 » by MrSparkle » Wed Apr 7, 2021 1:59 pm

We’ll see how the last stretch goes, but barre a total decline in Sato’s and Thad’s games, you have to imagine they’re back next year and we target a MLE player.... get creative with Lauri (or resign, maybe short-term, if multiple points are met).

AK isn’t going to shred 2-3 rotation players on decent, market-friendly deals to risk an overpay on 1 prospect like Lonzo or a late-career Derozan, or to prematurely max Zach.

Sato and Thad should have a solid trade value on draft night, though.

With Lauri, despite all the bashing, when I see him making plays at the rim, I am reminded that I do want to see the guy succeed here. He is 23yo, and most players get better from 24-28. Even Doug McDermott. Just a numbers game. But I feel like a R. Holmes, for example, would be a better replacement.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#182 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:36 pm

I would argue that Thad/Sato are not on market friendly deals for a team that can be below the cap.

Eating up $14 million of soft cap is completely different than eating up $14 million of salary in excess of the cap limit (e.g. if Thad was on the Lakers, Bucks, etc.)
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#183 » by drosestruts » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:42 pm

Next target - Austin Rivers.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#184 » by kodo » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:55 pm

The total value of Thad/Sato/Lauri probably outweighs what we could get in the summer, but they're all highly efficient offensive players and I'd argue we still don't have a single defensive starter on this team. Troy Brown isn't an All-NBA defender nor would he even get the minutes to impact it enough. I would trade 2 of them for just 1 defender, and could be pushed to all 3 depending who it was.

Since the trade our defense has gone down, not up, w/ the loss of Carter. Bulls are 24th in the league on defense post trade. We were 16th pre-trade. A lot of this is the quality of opponents were facing during that stretch and losing Temple, but I still don't feel like the defensive issues we've seen all year long we're solved w/ adding Vuc. Theis helps, but he's never going to start and he's expiring.

If you don't have a team with All-NBA talent, the only way into the playoffs is defense. Like Miami, Phoenix, Knicks. There is no formula of "no top tier talent" + "league worst defense" that is working. Even Golden State isn't doing any better than we are, and they have Curry. I'm not a fan of staying pat with the team mostly as is this offseason.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#185 » by Repeat 3-peat » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:11 pm

The target is going to be Lonzo. They wanted him at the deadline, they'll get him in the Summer.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#186 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:15 pm

kodo wrote:The total value of Thad/Sato/Lauri probably outweighs what we could get in the summer, but they're all highly efficient offensive players and I'd argue we still don't have a single defensive starter on this team. Troy Brown isn't an All-NBA defender nor would he even get the minutes to impact it enough. I would trade 2 of them for just 1 defender, and could be pushed to all 3 depending who it was.

Since the trade our defense has gone down, not up, w/ the loss of Carter. Bulls are 24th in the league on defense post trade. We were 16th pre-trade. A lot of this is the quality of opponents were facing during that stretch and losing Temple, but I still don't feel like the defensive issues we've seen all year long we're solved w/ adding Vuc. Theis helps, but he's never going to start and he's expiring.

If you don't have a team with All-NBA talent, the only way into the playoffs is defense. Like Miami, Phoenix, Knicks. There is no formula of "no top tier talent" + "league worst defense" that is working. Even Golden State isn't doing any better than we are, and they have Curry. I'm not a fan of staying pat with the team mostly as is this offseason.

Yeah this is why Lauri has to go and why we can't have a bad defender at the 1.

Lavine/Vuc is already pushing a defense to the limit. We need the other 3 starters to cover up for Lavine/Vuc defensively. You throw another liability into the mix and we're just going to get torched.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#187 » by MrSparkle » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:57 pm

IMO folks are over-thinking this post-trade situation. Are you asking for the moon (tank and end up with back to back superstar picks in next 2 drafts), or are you realistically thinking the Bulls' non-4 FRPs and an alternate Wendell trade would've put this team in a better situation?

A bad defensive team can improve its defense and make adjustments in a series. Important thing is to have backups and compliments like Javonte and Theis, or in Lakers case, savvy scrappers like Caruso, Green, Howard, etc. Obviously if you're playing Mario Hezonja and Melo at PF and a rookie Gary Trent for 48 mpg, your McCollum/Lillard back-court isn't going to find a way to stop the stacked Lebron/Davis Lakers. :lol:

A team without double-team threats (i.e. all-star scorers) will never improve its offense at the playoff level. It will always fall short to adjustments, even to the least disciplined defenses. We''ve seen this play out so many times: we lost to the underachieving Wizards at least twice (if not thrice?) in ugly 1st round disappointments, despite being the higher seed. We lost to the #8 Sixers who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. We lost to the KG-less Celtics because they had 2 star scorers to our 1 (rookie Rose), even with their MVP out. Paul and Ray were serviceable team defenders, but never picked for an all-defensive team. They weren't anchoring the defense. Thibs/Doc had a war chest of strong two-way role-players, who on their own were unremarkable (Big Baby, Perkins, even Rondo- beyond the passing gift).

Vucevic and LaVine can each command a double team. They are high-attention scorers, which makes their below-average defense less of a problem. In a perfect world, yes, we'd like them to be Embiid and Butler, but they're not. And that tandem also lost in the 2nd round... because ultimately they couldn't shoot consistently. And they probably each continue falling short in the East unless either guy becomes possessed by Larry Bird for an entire post-season. Mind you, they have deeper and more experienced teammates than Zach/Vuc.

And sure, it's nice to have an all-defensive all-star like Jimmy, but then he also needs a defensive liability like Duncan Robinson and Herro, to space the floor. So unless you have Kawhi or Lebron, you're always dealing with problems that need to be addressed with lesser players who have a different form of a liability.

Lauri isn't bad because his defense is bad. He's bad because his offense has also been pretty bad (er mediocre), despite his hot shooting percentages - most guys with bad offense compensate with good defense (i.e. Theis). If Lauri could shoot in isolation like MPJ, then we wouldn't care how many times he's beaten on the switch. He belongs on a bench right now. If he ever shows he's automatic in a physical 1-on-1 situation, then give the man a $25m starting job.

Vucevic and Zach are legitimate scorers who score 30 points if not schemed and trapped, or faced by a premier defender. Sure, there are gonna be a handful of guys who'll shut them down, because we're not talking about Jokic and Lebron.

AKME's jobs are much easier this summer. They don't have to fish for high-ceiling/high-bust prospects to save the franchise, with no timeline for development. They just need to add younger versions of Garrett Temple to this squad. I think Donovan can make this a solid defensive team with a few more tweaks.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#188 » by sco » Wed Apr 7, 2021 9:22 pm

Maybe it's adding a 2way guy like Bullock, a bench scoring PG like Rose and keeping Theis.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#189 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:57 pm

sco wrote:Maybe it's adding a 2way guy like Bullock, a bench scoring PG like Rose and keeping Theis.


We need a starting PG and PF. Hopefully Williams will be a starting level SF next year.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#190 » by Ugly Duckling » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:02 am

roll the dice on oladipo. he had a devastating injury that takes a couple seasons to bounce back from. if he gets back to his old self, we become dangerous. otherwise im cool with ball
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#191 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:09 pm

Ugly Duckling wrote:roll the dice on oladipo. he had a devastating injury that takes a couple seasons to bounce back from. if he gets back to his old self, we become dangerous. otherwise im cool with ball



I think Miami will keep him.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#192 » by Chi town » Thu Apr 8, 2021 3:22 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
kodo wrote:The total value of Thad/Sato/Lauri probably outweighs what we could get in the summer, but they're all highly efficient offensive players and I'd argue we still don't have a single defensive starter on this team. Troy Brown isn't an All-NBA defender nor would he even get the minutes to impact it enough. I would trade 2 of them for just 1 defender, and could be pushed to all 3 depending who it was.

Since the trade our defense has gone down, not up, w/ the loss of Carter. Bulls are 24th in the league on defense post trade. We were 16th pre-trade. A lot of this is the quality of opponents were facing during that stretch and losing Temple, but I still don't feel like the defensive issues we've seen all year long we're solved w/ adding Vuc. Theis helps, but he's never going to start and he's expiring.

If you don't have a team with All-NBA talent, the only way into the playoffs is defense. Like Miami, Phoenix, Knicks. There is no formula of "no top tier talent" + "league worst defense" that is working. Even Golden State isn't doing any better than we are, and they have Curry. I'm not a fan of staying pat with the team mostly as is this offseason.

Yeah this is why Lauri has to go and why we can't have a bad defender at the 1.

Lavine/Vuc is already pushing a defense to the limit. We need the other 3 starters to cover up for Lavine/Vuc defensively. You throw another liability into the mix and we're just going to get torched.


Fully agree with versatile defense. This is why I think Lonzo will be the guy.

Lonzo Lavine Coby Sato

PaW TBJ Temple

Vuc Theis Thad

That’s your 10 man rotation. Hoping Lavine takes another step as does PaW and Lonzo.

Or AK goes with shooting if he can’t get Lonzo. Keep Sato at PG and go for Duncan Robinson and play PaW at the 4.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#193 » by MalagaBulls » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:56 pm

Well, here we are. One terrible game and I am in PANIC MODE!!!
Not really but if we could swing something with our current division rival Raptors (They were our sons when we owned them during the Jimmy Buckets years), would you rather trade for Siakam, Anunoby , or Boucher? All 3 have good to great defensive value and shoot pretty well.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#194 » by MalagaBulls » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:37 pm

Having thought about this I see 2 good upgrades that go a long way to solving the PG and PF/4 liabilities.

1. At the 4 we try and pry Chris Boucher from the Raptors. He is on a cheap contract through next year but won't come cheap. He might be a pogo stick but he should provide excellent rim protection and even defends his assignment all the way out to the perimeter.
He is shooting the 3 at 39% on decent volume.

2. Lonzo - De have talked about him AD nauseum. Nufcsaid.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#195 » by Am2626 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:30 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Wingy wrote:Your (perceived) pessimism feels surprising given you know how the tank/draft path isn't any easier, or certain.


We just traded two picks, one of them projected at #9 in the draft for a 30 year, two time all-star center that only plays one side of the ball. This move has the ability to absolutely screw the franchise if it doesn't work, and I think there is a pretty high likelihood it will not work.

But I think it's a combo of having to respond to that one poster who recently got roasted for flip-flopping opinions + this above...the exuberance of the board vs. the harsh realities. I'd hope people understand the mood given the do-nothing, "The 20XX Plan" era we just left.


I understand why people are super excited for aggressiveness for the sake of aggressiveness given what we have previously done, and we're a better team today than we were a week ago, so there is some completely fair excitement about that. If Vuc was 27, I'd feel a heck of a lot different about this trade, but he's not.


It’s not like it took a King’s ransom to get Vuc. They gave up 2 protected first round picks, WCJ, and an expiring Otto Porter Jr. contract. How is significantly upgrading the center position screwing the franchise over? And Vuc’s game is on footwork and fundamental skills not on Athleticism. His game will not suffer much as he ages. A lot of big men like this have long and productive careers late into their careers. Look at a guy like Arvydas Sabonis who didn’t even get the NBA until he was 31. He was a high level player for the next 5 years.

I don’t see how this team would be in a better situation if they did not make this trade. Let’s say the Bulls don’t make the playoffs and this pick goes to Orlando. Do the Bulls really need to add another Coby White level player to this team? That guy in all likelihood will not be anywhere near the caliber player that Vuc will be for the Bulls for the next 3 years. If there was no protection on the picks then I would have a major issue with this trade but the protection makes these draft picks very expendable when the return is an All Star Caliber player.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#196 » by MrSparkle » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:24 am

I agree with Malaga, any of the Toronto guys would be great targets, but I can’t imagine Nurse and Ujiri make a losing trade, especially since all those forwards are young.

I still think Thybulle is the king prize of the high-ceiling diamonds-in-the-rough. He’s a risk (offensively), but already near the top of defensive metrics. He’ll have a “steep” cost, but the reality is that Morey knows the Sixers need shooters (unless he makes a Simmons/Beal trade). Far-fetched but Coby and Troy, maybe?

Still mixed on Lonzo. He addresses a list of issues here, but I also don’t want to maintain the problem of PG scoring. We need a PG who can get to the rim and finish (well: every good team needs one).
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#197 » by Just_Bullz » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:51 am

Given AK has targeted teams that look to reset their roster (Orlando), Toronto is likely his next target.

Slew of players to fish for, Gary Trent Jr (FA), Chris Boucher (7.02mn next season), OG Anunoby (16/18/19/20mio over the next 4 seasons) and Pascal Siakam (30/33/35/37mio).

Either GT Jr or CB would be great but the main prize is Pascal. Maybe a Young + Coby + Aminu (assume he opts in) will do the trick?

Toronto gets a young player to develop in Coby and 2 expiring in Young and Aminu.

Our starting lineup will be
Siakam
PWill
Vooch
Lavine
Sato
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#198 » by Salo23 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:32 am

Richaun Holmes and Lonzo Ball.

Vet minimum signing: David Nwaba
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#199 » by Clocian » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:13 am

Salo23 wrote:Richaun Holmes and Lonzo Ball.

Vet minimum signing: David Nwaba
Is it even possible to get both ball and Holmes? If so, I approve of all of the above.

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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#200 » by Nate3carp » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:57 pm

Clocian wrote:
Salo23 wrote:Richaun Holmes and Lonzo Ball.

Vet minimum signing: David Nwaba
Is it even possible to get both ball and Holmes? If so, I approve of all of the above.

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Depending on how much each commands, yes we could have $30m+ this offseason. Not sure I’d want to pay Holmes with Vuc already here.

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