Who is the next target?

[dice]

my best hope at this point is that the bulls crash and burn vs a tough schedule the rest of the way, AK recognizes that it ain't gonna work (much like garpax did w/ the jimmy/wade combo), and quickly pivots toward shopping lavine in a contract year for a haul of picks and young talent. it would help if zach says he wants out, but that would reduce his trade value. but i said when lavine was named an all-star that it was bad news for the future of the franchise. and the vucevic trade is the first concrete validation of that fear. i'm not sure it would have happened if it couldn't be used to sell the fanbase on the "look, now we've got 2 all-stars!" fraud

There’s no way that happens even if the team does crash and burn this season. This was the first step of a fully committed plan, whether you agree with it or not. There won’t be any pivoting.

You're 100% correct. But if people want to ignore the actual facts, I can't imagine anyone has forgotten that the Jimmy/Wade combo only happened because GarPax couldn't get enough value by trading Jimmy before they ever signed Wade.

Or are we all going to pretend that GarPax DIDN'T spend the first 2 weeks of July 2016 trying to trade Jimmy? We all know they did.

if you're suggesting that garpax was forced to overpay wade on his last legs because they didn't find a suitable trade for jimmy, that's nonsense. and a multi-year deal to boot that they then had to buy out after a year

[dice]

i didn't say they actively DON'T want to play with him. i'm suggesting that nobody (other than isaiah thomas, apparently) are eager to

lebron selected jaylen brown over zach for his all-star team. brown is an excellent player, but i don't think that anyone is clamoring to play with him either

So you're just talking out of your ass basically. Got it.

Fixed it for you

another troll who doesn't accept concrete examples and can't produce one him/herself

your turn: find an example of a star who's eager to play with zach lavine. until then...

it's a sad state of affairs when as a bulls fan you're left with "hey, maybe zach is good friends with some great player that we don't know about." a player who will apparently come out of the woodwork now that nikola freaking vucevic is in the mix

[CobyWhite0]

I’d like the “target” to be exchanging Lauri for Ball somehow.

But at this point I think I’m done guessing what we’ll do. AK zigged so hard away from what I was expecting the zag options to be, that I have no idea what he has in mind.

I just know that for all this to make any sense he better have a plan to execute this summer. Because if this was it, we’re in trouble.

There is no way we are done. He said it.

Of course he can make some inconsequential moves. But I mean a significant, probably isolated, move. And I hate to be this way about it because I know a GM can’t “make sure” something significant happens. But he pretty much HAS to pull it off, and this summer.

Call me crazy, but I can see a Lauri sign and trade for Beal this summer.

We know the Wiz were interested in Lauri, and we know Beal is a huge BD fan.

[DuckIII]

So you're just talking out of your ass basically. Got it.

Fixed it for you

another troll who doesn't accept concrete examples and can't produce one him/herself

your turn: find an example of a star who's eager to play with zach lavine. until then...

it's a sad state of affairs when as a bulls fan you're left with "hey, maybe zach is good friends with some great player that we don't know about." a player who will apparently come out of the woodwork now that nikola freaking vucevic is in the mix

I don’t consider imagining the existence of friendships is any more speculative than imagining they don’t exist.

Certainly an affirmative statement by some young star would resolve the issue to a point of certainty, but without it the remaining views are all just speculation.

[dice]

Fixed it for you

another troll who doesn't accept concrete examples and can't produce one him/herself

your turn: find an example of a star who's eager to play with zach lavine. until then...

it's a sad state of affairs when as a bulls fan you're left with "hey, maybe zach is good friends with some great player that we don't know about." a player who will apparently come out of the woodwork now that nikola freaking vucevic is in the mix

I don’t consider imagining the existence of friendships is any more speculative than imagining they don’t exist.

seems to me that any suggestion lavine harbors secret friendships with star players is far more ambitious a theory. this isn't like saying "maybe there is intelligent life in the universe and maybe there isn't." it's a situation where one of the options is far more likely than the other

Certainly an affirmative statement by some young star would resolve the issue to a point of certainty, but without it the remaining views are all just speculation.

which makes any positivity regarding the vucevic trade far-fetched wishful thinking

hell, we could have all just pretended that garpax had some grand master plan right up until the end. many pretended that signing wade was a ploy to get him to recruit a 3rd star to sign with us (even though his contract gave us less flexibility to do so). given wade's age, that was only marginally less crazy than thinking that lavine/vucevic is a viable recruiting tool. but at least wade had successfully recruited lebron/bosh in the past and was on good terms with jimmy (an all-nba player). there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the bulls are now in a good position to recruit anyone that could bring the team into contention

[dice]

There is no way we are done. He said it.

Of course he can make some inconsequential moves. But I mean a significant, probably isolated, move. And I hate to be this way about it because I know a GM can’t “make sure” something significant happens. But he pretty much HAS to pull it off, and this summer.

Call me crazy, but I can see a Lauri sign and trade for Beal this summer.

We know the Wiz were interested in Lauri, and we know Beal is a huge BD fan.

which would tell you how much teams around the league are interested in beal

but maybe that's exactly AK's strategy (at management's instruction) - acquire a lot of scorers who don't play defense and sell action rather than winning at a high level. lots of 123-117 contests

[DuckIII]

another troll who doesn't accept concrete examples and can't produce one him/herself

your turn: find an example of a star who's eager to play with zach lavine. until then...

it's a sad state of affairs when as a bulls fan you're left with "hey, maybe zach is good friends with some great player that we don't know about." a player who will apparently come out of the woodwork now that nikola freaking vucevic is in the mix

I don’t consider imagining the existence of friendships is any more speculative than imagining they don’t exist.

seems to me that any suggestion lavine harbors secret friendships with star players is far more ambitious a theory. this isn't like saying "maybe there is intelligent life in the universe and maybe there isn't." it's a situation where one of the options is far more likely than the other

I think if anything it’s the opposite. Do players have “secret friendships”’or do they just have friendships and we generally donKt hear about any except for a few from time to time?

To me, the bigger stretch is to assume that a player from a major youth basketball market, who played in LA in the PAC 12, and has risen to NBA stardom, not to mention all inter-relationships between players with common agencies, doesn’t have friendships with high level NBA players.

But since it’s all speculative it doesn’t matter because we don’t know. I mean I didn’t even know he and Thad had the relationship they have until this year.

[dougthonus]

seems to me that any suggestion lavine harbors secret friendships with star players is far more ambitious a theory. this isn't like saying "maybe there is intelligent life in the universe and maybe there isn't." it's a situation where one of the options is far more likely than the other

You think it is far more likely that LaVine is not friends with any star players? I would think the opposite. I don't know that they are all clamoring to play with him by any stretch, but he seems like a guy who is friendly with a lot of stars based on twitter reactions, being at all star games for dunk contests in the past etc...

which makes any positivity regarding the vucevic trade far-fetched wishful thinking

I also think the optimism around this move seems way out of bounds with reality, but I hope the front office proves me wrong with a genius next move this off-season.

[Wingy]

I also think the optimism around this move seems way out of bounds with reality, but I hope the front office proves me wrong with a genius next move this off-season.

Your (perceived) pessimism feels surprising given you know how the tank/draft path isn't any easier, or certain.

But I think it's a combo of having to respond to that one poster who recently got roasted for flip-flopping opinions + this above...the exuberance of the board vs. the harsh realities. I'd hope people understand the mood given the do-nothing, "The 20XX Plan" era we just left.

[Leslie Forman]

"The 20XX Plan" era we just left.

Isn't this basically the same thing now, just without the clear targets?

There is no good young talent on this team (I'm still on the Patwagon, but…he really is absolutely terrible right now). You can't trade any picks that convey before 2025+. Vucevic+LaVine+rando vets should result in a similarly middling not awful, not great team that keeps you from getting top picks.

It sounds like signing/trading for that stud is the "plan" now, which…doesn't sound a whole lot different from what the old regime was trying to do for years.

[Wingy]

"The 20XX Plan" era we just left.

Isn't this basically the same thing now, just without the clear targets?

There is no good young talent on this team (I'm still on the Patwagon, but…he really is absolutely terrible right now). You can't trade any picks that convey before 2025+. Vucevic+LaVine+rando vets should result in a similarly middling not awful, not great team that keeps you from getting top picks.

It sounds like signing/trading for that stud is the "plan" now, which…doesn't sound a whole lot different from what the old regime was trying to do for years.

I wouldn't have liked it, but I would've understood a strategy to start over....again...by selling high on Zach with the idea of a modern, in-touch AK-drafting better, and replenishing our talent base, and having cap. I know the debacle we've seen post-Jimmy/Niko draft has left the cupboard bare. Wouldn't like it, but I think I'd ultimately understand it given what we saw this first half.

Then there's the reality of the business side, the Bulls ownership, and the average "fan" that isn't even close to the maniacs we have here in this community. Do you really think this ownership group is going to keep allowing profits, and attendance to go down w/that strategy? Can't stand this ownership group...I'm one of the loudest beaters of that drum....and you know the answer as well as I do.

Given reality, this is about as good an attempt as I can expect from AK. The one difference is that the old regime took on a guy with the "20XX" plan money that was undersized, couldn't defend, and couldn't shoot w/range. While Vuc isn't a superstar, his size/3p shooting will remain strengths as he begins to decline. We won't have a max salary that's a completely sunk cost. I can jump in and say, it's true - that doesn't address the "plan" question. Maybe the plan itself is just a different cover for a similar script (cause really, how many real "plans" are actually out there???), but the director and their ability to execute it matters a whole lot. GarPax was completely out of touch with this era, and its players (e.g. - the whole showing up in jeans pitch for Lebron). We have a much better chance of executing with AKME, and the Vuc trade shows players around the league that we're no longer the GarPax-lead punchline.

[d boy gentleman]

"The 20XX Plan" era we just left.

Isn't this basically the same thing now, just without the clear targets?

There is no good young talent on this team (I'm still on the Patwagon, but…he really is absolutely terrible right now). You can't trade any picks that convey before 2025+. Vucevic+LaVine+rando vets should result in a similarly middling not awful, not great team that keeps you from getting top picks.

It sounds like signing/trading for that stud is the "plan" now, which…doesn't sound a whole lot different from what the old regime was trying to do for years.

I wouldn't have liked it, but I would've understood a strategy to start over....again...by selling high on Zach with the idea of a modern, in-touch AK-drafting better, and replenishing our talent base, and having cap. I know the debacle we've seen post-Jimmy/Niko draft has left the cupboard bare. Wouldn't like it, but I think I'd ultimately understand it given what we saw this first half.

Then there's the reality of the business side, the Bulls ownership, and the average "fan" that isn't even close to the maniacs we have here in this community. Do you really think this ownership group is going to keep allowing profits, and attendance to go down w/that strategy? Can't stand this ownership group...I'm one of the loudest beaters of that drum....and you know the answer as well as I do.

Given reality, this is about as good an attempt as I can expect from AK. The one difference is that the old regime took on a guy with the "20XX" plan money that was undersized, couldn't defend, and couldn't shoot w/range. While Vuc isn't a superstar, his size/3p shooting will remain strengths as he begins to decline. We won't have a max salary that's a completely sunk cost. I can jump in and say, it's true - that doesn't address the "plan" question. Maybe the plan itself is just a different cover for a similar script (cause really, how many real "plans" are actually out there???), but the director and their ability to execute it matters a whole lot. GarPax was completely out of touch with this era, and its players (e.g. - the whole showing up in jeans pitch for Lebron). We have a much better chance of executing with AKME, and the Vuc trade shows players around the league that we're no longer the GarPax-lead punchline.

I wouldn't have understood a strategy to start over again at all. Going through another 5 year rebuild would have lost me as a fan and pulling for another team. Tanking and placing all your hopes on lottery balls isn't much of a plan either especially with the new rules in place where teams as low as 11 have jumped all the way to 4 passing over the so-called tanking teams.

[CobyWhite0]

We can't say with certainty who AKME's #1 target is but I'm almost certain that if any All Star wants to come play with Zach/Vuc, that player will be the target of extreme scorn, coming from a set of fans who think you'd have to be a fool to join Zach/Vuc.

Nobody knows for sure if any other All Star wants to come here, but laughing at the notion borders on trolling.

I feel bad for some of them, JFC sports are supposed to be enjoyable, the absolute complete lack of optimism would make me find a new hobby.

[WindyCityBorn]

another troll who doesn't accept concrete examples and can't produce one him/herself

your turn: find an example of a star who's eager to play with zach lavine. until then...

it's a sad state of affairs when as a bulls fan you're left with "hey, maybe zach is good friends with some great player that we don't know about." a player who will apparently come out of the woodwork now that nikola freaking vucevic is in the mix

I don’t consider imagining the existence of friendships is any more speculative than imagining they don’t exist.

seems to me that any suggestion lavine harbors secret friendships with star players is far more ambitious a theory. this isn't like saying "maybe there is intelligent life in the universe and maybe there isn't." it's a situation where one of the options is far more likely than the other

Certainly an affirmative statement by some young star would resolve the issue to a point of certainty, but without it the remaining views are all just speculation.

which makes any positivity regarding the vucevic trade far-fetched wishful thinking

hell, we could have all just pretended that garpax had some grand master plan right up until the end. many pretended that signing wade was a ploy to get him to recruit a 3rd star to sign with us (even though his contract gave us less flexibility to do so). given wade's age, that was only marginally less crazy than thinking that lavine/vucevic is a viable recruiting tool. but at least wade had successfully recruited lebron/bosh in the past and was on good terms with jimmy (an all-nba player). there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the bulls are now in a good position to recruit anyone that could bring the team into contention

We literally just found out he was already friends with Vuc before the trade. Who knew that before Friday?

[WindyCityBorn]

We can't say with certainty who AKME's #1 target is but I'm almost certain that if any All Star wants to come play with Zach/Vuc, that player will be the target of extreme scorn, coming from a set of fans who think you'd have to be a fool to join Zach/Vuc.

Nobody knows for sure if any other All Star wants to come here, but laughing at the notion borders on trolling.

I feel bad for some of them, JFC sports are supposed to be enjoyable, the absolute complete lack of optimism would make me find a new hobby.

We really have a terrible subset of fans.

[Wingy]

I wouldn't have understood a strategy to start over again at all. Going through another 5 year rebuild would have lost me as a fan and pulling for another team. Tanking and placing all your hopes on lottery balls isn't much of a plan either especially with the new rules in place where teams as low as 11 have jumped all the way to 4 passing over the so-called tanking teams.

Yup, I get it. It's fans like you (and I don't mean that in any kind of negative way, not at all), and ownership that make the strategies of posters like Leslie, and dice completely unrealistic.

[Leslie Forman]

Call me crazy, but I can see a Lauri sign and trade for Beal this summer.

We know the Wiz were interested in Lauri, and we know Beal is a huge BD fan.

March
Wizards: Give us Markkanen.
Bulls: Give us a draft pick.
Wizards: No.

July
Wizards: Give us Markkanen on a much larger contract.
Bulls: Give us Bradley Beal.
Wizards: You got it!

[Leslie Forman]

I wouldn't have understood a strategy to start over again at all. Going through another 5 year rebuild would have lost me as a fan and pulling for another team. Tanking and placing all your hopes on lottery balls isn't much of a plan either especially with the new rules in place where teams as low as 11 have jumped all the way to 4 passing over the so-called tanking teams.

Yup, I get it. It's fans like you (and I don't mean that in any kind of negative way, not at all), and ownership that make the strategies of posters like Leslie, and dice completely unrealistic.

You could have said all of the same for the Magic and their ownership and fanbase, and yet here they are, finally starting the tank they didn't have the guts to do before.

[Wingy]

I wouldn't have understood a strategy to start over again at all. Going through another 5 year rebuild would have lost me as a fan and pulling for another team. Tanking and placing all your hopes on lottery balls isn't much of a plan either especially with the new rules in place where teams as low as 11 have jumped all the way to 4 passing over the so-called tanking teams.

Yup, I get it. It's fans like you (and I don't mean that in any kind of negative way, not at all), and ownership that make the strategies of posters like Leslie, and dice completely unrealistic.

You could have said all of the same for the Magic and their ownership and fanbase, and yet here they are, finally starting the tank they didn't have the guts to do before.

Show me the team that ranked, then immediately rebooted their tank after having found an all star. I’m not debating the right move. I’m pointing out the reality. Teams/businesses don’t do it. They’re happy for some playoff revenue in between.

[Leslie Forman]

Yup, I get it. It's fans like you (and I don't mean that in any kind of negative way, not at all), and ownership that make the strategies of posters like Leslie, and dice completely unrealistic.

You could have said all of the same for the Magic and their ownership and fanbase, and yet here they are, finally starting the tank they didn't have the guts to do before.

Show me the team that ranked, then immediately rebooted their tank after having found an all star. I’m not debating the right move. I’m pointing out the reality. Teams/businesses don’t do it. They’re happy for some playoff revenue in between.

1. This is moving the goalposts
2. 1997, none other than Jerry Reinsdorf had his team, who had just signed All-Star Albert Belle and were not out of the playoff race, trade away his two best pitchers.