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Who is the next target?

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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#61 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:15 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:We can't say with certainty who AKME's #1 target is but I'm almost certain that if any All Star wants to come play with Zach/Vuc, that player will be the target of extreme scorn, coming from a set of fans who think you'd have to be a fool to join Zach/Vuc.

Nobody knows for sure if any other All Star wants to come here, but laughing at the notion borders on trolling.

I feel bad for some of them, JFC sports are supposed to be enjoyable, the absolute complete lack of optimism would make me find a new hobby. :dontknow:


We really have a terrible subset of fans.


If not for the injuries this season Orlando would have not entered a rebuild. Their hand was basically forced. Houston didn’t want to trade Harden either despite their titles hope being slim to none.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#62 » by jump » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:23 am

dice wrote:
DuckIII wrote:I’d like the “target” to be exchanging Lauri for Ball somehow.

But at this point I think I’m done guessing what we’ll do. AK zigged so hard away from what I was expecting the zag options to be, that I have no idea what he has in mind.

I just know that for all this to make any sense he better have a plan to execute this summer. Because if this was it, we’re in trouble.

unless he's operating on some higher plane (which anyone would be foolish to assume or even think is a legit possibility), we're in trouble. there is no discernable grand plan in play here other than painfully slow improvement tied to the resigned notion that zach lavine is going to be around for a long time. this is the kind of move that gives the "playoff payoff" crowd ammunition

my best hope at this point is that the bulls crash and burn vs a tough schedule the rest of the way, AK recognizes that it ain't gonna work (much like garpax did w/ the jimmy/wade combo), and quickly pivots toward shopping lavine in a contract year for a haul of picks and young talent. it would help if zach says he wants out, but that would reduce his trade value. but i said when lavine was named an all-star that it was bad news for the future of the franchise. and the vucevic trade is the first concrete validation of that fear. i'm not sure it would have happened if it couldn't be used to sell the fanbase on the "look, now we've got 2 all-stars!" fraud

only a matter of time before we start seeing lavine and vucevic in commercials together. following in the tradition of the "baby bulls" and jimmy/wade from a hope-driven marketing perspective


You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You can make up all the **** you want about what you know that NBA players think, but you have nothing to back it up. Please start wasting our time with something new.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#63 » by jump » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:25 am

You sound like you’re trolling. I mean, really.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#64 » by CobyWhite0 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:45 am

It's easy to see why Joe Cowley has a job
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#65 » by Onibuh » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:30 am

Brogdon or Siakam
a guy like Rose
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#66 » by Bulldog23 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:18 pm

Here are my rankings: 1. Spencer Dinwiddie, 2. Dennis Schroeder, 3. Brogdon, 4. Ball, 5. Devonte Graham
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#67 » by dougthonus » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:17 pm

Wingy wrote:Your (perceived) pessimism feels surprising given you know how the tank/draft path isn't any easier, or certain.


We just traded two picks, one of them projected at #9 in the draft for a 30 year, two time all-star center that only plays one side of the ball. This move has the ability to absolutely screw the franchise if it doesn't work, and I think there is a pretty high likelihood it will not work.

But I think it's a combo of having to respond to that one poster who recently got roasted for flip-flopping opinions + this above...the exuberance of the board vs. the harsh realities. I'd hope people understand the mood given the do-nothing, "The 20XX Plan" era we just left.


I understand why people are super excited for aggressiveness for the sake of aggressiveness given what we have previously done, and we're a better team today than we were a week ago, so there is some completely fair excitement about that. If Vuc was 27, I'd feel a heck of a lot different about this trade, but he's not.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#68 » by DuckIII » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:27 pm

Onibuh wrote:Brogdon or Siakam
a guy like Rose


I keep seeing this last thing. Let’s just completely ignore that point guards “like Rose” include Rose himself, and instead consider the type of point guard that represents.

That’s still a shoot first, dribble drive point guard, which are not necessarily negative traits, with questionable shooting rage, minus defense, and limited playmaking ability. And for our team, those last three things are negative traits.

Put another way, at this point in their respective careers, and considering our roster, Sato is a much better option.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#69 » by Wingy » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:57 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
Wingy wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:You could have said all of the same for the Magic and their ownership and fanbase, and yet here they are, finally starting the tank they didn't have the guts to do before.


Show me the team that ranked, then immediately rebooted their tank after having found an all star. I’m not debating the right move. I’m pointing out the reality. Teams/businesses don’t do it. They’re happy for some playoff revenue in between.

1. This is moving the goalposts
2. 1997, none other than Jerry Reinsdorf had his team, who had just signed All-Star Albert Belle and were not out of the playoff race, trade away his two best pitchers.


How is highlighting the reality of our franchise's ownership (and most ownerships) moving the goal posts? That's honestly not clicking with me....not trying to be disingenuous.

No other major team sport is comparable to basketball, and I'm sure you know why. What other basketball team has undertaken such a route to actively tank again after acquiring a solid all star, and a previous solid period of tanking?

If it were purely a conceptual exercise where it was done apart from the business, you'd see it more often. The reality of the business, ownership, sponsorship, and fan attention span doesn't really allow this.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#70 » by qianlong » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:02 pm

Onibuh wrote:Brogdon or Siakam
a guy like Rose

The Bolded.

dougthonus wrote:
Wingy wrote:Your (perceived) pessimism feels surprising given you know how the tank/draft path isn't any easier, or certain.


We just traded two picks, one of them projected at #9 in the draft for a 30 year, two time all-star center that only plays one side of the ball. This move has the ability to absolutely screw the franchise if it doesn't work, and I think there is a pretty high likelihood it will not work.

But I think it's a combo of having to respond to that one poster who recently got roasted for flip-flopping opinions + this above...the exuberance of the board vs. the harsh realities. I'd hope people understand the mood given the do-nothing, "The 20XX Plan" era we just left.


I understand why people are super excited for aggressiveness for the sake of aggressiveness given what we have previously done, and we're a better team today than we were a week ago, so there is some completely fair excitement about that. If Vuc was 27, I'd feel a heck of a lot different about this trade, but he's not.

I'm with you in not being such a big fan of the move for exactly the same reasons, age, buy high, weak defense, likely not to be good enough.

That said as I said the day after, I like that they picked a direction, something the past FO would never do. Staying put was a terrible option, they should either trade Lavine and tank or try to acquire some talent. They opened door n.2. They may not achieve much, but I think there is a plan in fielding a good team, and waiting for the next star to bolt.

And here is why these are my next few targets: Kawhi, Giannis. George. The team has offensive players but it sill lacks defense, and a second offensive playmaker. All of those fit like a glove, which is why I think they may consider Chicago as a destination. Especially Giannis.
I know it sounds like pie in the sky, but they are much more realistic goals than they were 1 week ago.

As poor man options Siakam and Brogdon are two nice targets.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#71 » by Leslie Forman » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:25 pm

Wingy wrote:How is highlighting the reality of our franchise's ownership (and most ownerships) moving the goal posts? That's honestly not clicking with me....not trying to be disingenuous.

No other major team sport is comparable to basketball, and I'm sure you know why. What other basketball team has undertaken such a route to actively tank again after acquiring a solid all star, and a previous solid period of tanking?

Because you're bringing up some new super specific criteria that isn't even technically possible to meet. The Bulls tanked for like a grand total of two months three years ago.

My point is simply that everything you said that is supposedly so utterly impossible here because the ownership is hell bent on not ever doing it is exactly the same thing someone could have said about Orlando and their ownership. In fact it's exactly what Orlando fans have been complaining about for a long while and assumed wasn't going to happen. And yet, for them, it just did.

Wingy wrote:If it were purely a conceptual exercise where it was done apart from the business, you'd see it more often. The reality of the business, ownership, sponsorship, and fan attention span doesn't really allow this.

None of us know what is happening at that level in this franchise. The notion that the ownership is some completely unmovable object that will never deviate is fundamentally wrong when we simply see what happened last summer. We here were all assuming the old regime had pope jobs and would never leave and yet, here's some Lithuanian guy who has never worked for Reinsdorf in his life before running the team. I just gave you an example of this franchise's very owner saying "F the playoffs" and throwing in the towel even when he was already in deep sh*t with his fanbase, and that's for the sport he actually cares about.

I might hate Reinsdorf and his stupid stadium we are still all paying for, but even I will admit that he has zigged when we were expecting him to zag before. He is not always the predictable old coot we think he is.

If your point is that it's not gonna happen so I should just shut up and take the red pill, well what's the fun in that.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#72 » by gobullschi » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:36 pm

The next targets are Lonzo Ball & DeMar DeRozan.

Trade #1:

Chicago Receives:
S&T DeMar DeRozan

San Antonio Receives:
S&T Lauri Markkanen

Trade #2:

Chicago Receives:
S&T Lonzo Ball

New Orleans Receives:
Tomas Satoransky, Coby White, & Ryan Arcidiacano

Lonzo Ball / 2nd Round Pick
Zach LaVine / Troy Brown Jr.
DeMar DeRozan / Al-Farouq Aminu
Patrick Williams / Thaddeus Young
Nikola Vucevic / Marko Simonovic
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#73 » by Wingy » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:20 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
Wingy wrote:How is highlighting the reality of our franchise's ownership (and most ownerships) moving the goal posts? That's honestly not clicking with me....not trying to be disingenuous.

No other major team sport is comparable to basketball, and I'm sure you know why. What other basketball team has undertaken such a route to actively tank again after acquiring a solid all star, and a previous solid period of tanking?

Because you're bringing up some new super specific criteria that isn't even technically possible to meet. The Bulls tanked for like a grand total of two months three years ago.

My point is simply that everything you said that is supposedly so utterly impossible here because the ownership is hell bent on not ever doing it is exactly the same thing someone could have said about Orlando and their ownership. In fact it's exactly what Orlando fans have been complaining about for a long while and assumed wasn't going to happen. And yet, for them, it just did.


It's not that specific. It's directly related to your preferred direction. You're advocating for what amounts to consecutive resets without seeing any modicum of "success" (i.e. - playoffs) in between. That's not what Orlando pulled the trigger on here. They got to the point of some playoff series, and had some young guys that gave them hope they could keep ascending. They've stalled out since those guys have disappointed and/or are always injured, and now they are hitting the reset button.

We didn't have that pause giving our latest all star a chance to go anywhere (until now). Orlando is not a precedent for our current situation, and your preferred plan.

Wingy wrote:If it were purely a conceptual exercise where it was done apart from the business, you'd see it more often. The reality of the business, ownership, sponsorship, and fan attention span doesn't really allow this.
Leslie Forman wrote:None of us know what is happening at that level in this franchise. The notion that the ownership is some completely unmovable object that will never deviate is fundamentally wrong when we simply see what happened last summer. We here were all assuming the old regime had pope jobs and would never leave and yet, here's some Lithuanian guy who has never worked for Reinsdorf in his life before running the team. I just gave you an example of this franchise's very owner saying "F the playoffs" and throwing in the towel even when he was already in deep sh*t with his fanbase, and that's for the sport he actually cares about.

I might hate Reinsdorf and his stupid stadium we are still all paying for, but even I will admit that he has zigged when we were expecting him to zag before. He is not always the predictable old coot we think he is.

If your point is that it's not gonna happen so I should just shut up and take the red pill, well what's the fun in that.


But they are relatively predictable. The only reason they changed course was because of the bottom line. Attendance dropping, ratings sinking, increased national ridicule. They acted, and changed course when new information told them profitability was damaged. Prioritizing revenue has always been this ownership's m.o. Another tear down is not going to heal the Bulls profitability, and if you think the ownership group would be fine with that...I don't know what group you've been watching all these years.

The baseball example doesn't make sense given the nature of the sports. A baseball MVP only gets 4-5 chances to even impact a game offensively. A Cy Young winner only plays every 5 games. Given how dominant individuals are in the game of basketball, there's just not a ton of precedent for doing what you're talking about in the context of...basketball. Much less doing that twice in a row.

"so I should just shut up and take the red pill"
...nah, never. There's no point of this board if we can't discuss ideas. Honestly, I've been in your camp more than not on this type of thing. I'm just coming around more to the fact that discussing the dream to death isn't going to change our actual circumstances.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#74 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:16 pm

DuckIII wrote:
dice wrote:my best hope at this point is that the bulls crash and burn vs a tough schedule the rest of the way, AK recognizes that it ain't gonna work (much like garpax did w/ the jimmy/wade combo), and quickly pivots toward shopping lavine in a contract year for a haul of picks and young talent. it would help if zach says he wants out, but that would reduce his trade value. but i said when lavine was named an all-star that it was bad news for the future of the franchise. and the vucevic trade is the first concrete validation of that fear. i'm not sure it would have happened if it couldn't be used to sell the fanbase on the "look, now we've got 2 all-stars!" fraud


There’s no way that happens even if the team does crash and burn this season. This was the first step of a fully committed plan, whether you agree with it or not. There won’t be any pivoting.



I don't know if it is concrete. AK can still turn ZL and Vuc into 4 picks over the summer if he desires. It appears for right now it is all in, but if he gets intel that they are worth more in the open market and no one is giving indications of wanting to come here, he could pull that trigger too. I am not saying it is likely, it appears he chose the lane he is in, but as you said you don't know the mind of AK as he holds it close to the vest. He doesn't appear to stubborn like GarPax to make a move. The NBA has never been more fluid either. In theory we should still be under the reign of the GSW dynasty. The Lakers are an serious injury away from not being relevant etc..... The point is, we never expected to be here a year ago (if Gar Pax were still here we would have had Hali and maxed out Lauri already)
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#75 » by MalagaBulls » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:58 pm

Would anybody take a flyer on Dennis Schroder as our future PG? He is a very pesky defender and is shooting 34% from 3 on 3.4 shots PG for his career. His career APG almost 5. The red flag is that he rejected a 4/84M offer from the Lakers.

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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#76 » by HomoSapien » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:06 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:Would anybody take a flyer on Dennis Schroder as our future PG? He is a very pesky defender and is shooting 34% from 3 on 3.4 shots PG for his career. His career APG almost 5. The red flag is that he rejected a 4/84M offer from the Lakers.

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Schroeder has been flying under the radar in a lot of ways. He's pretty under-discussed for a 20 and 7 player. Donovan has coached him with success, so it could be an interesting option.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#77 » by MalagaBulls » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:16 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:Would anybody take a flyer on Dennis Schroder as our future PG? He is a very pesky defender and is shooting 34% from 3 on 3.4 shots PG for his career. His career APG almost 5. The red flag is that he rejected a 4/84M offer from the Lakers.

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Schroeder has been flying under the radar in a lot of ways. He's pretty under-discussed for a 20 and 7 player. Donovan has coached him with success, so it could be an interesting option.
At what price though? He provides great D so I think he can be a 3&D PG.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#78 » by HomoSapien » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:56 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:Would anybody take a flyer on Dennis Schroder as our future PG? He is a very pesky defender and is shooting 34% from 3 on 3.4 shots PG for his career. His career APG almost 5. The red flag is that he rejected a 4/84M offer from the Lakers.

Read on Twitter


Schroeder has been flying under the radar in a lot of ways. He's pretty under-discussed for a 20 and 7 player. Donovan has coached him with success, so it could be an interesting option.


At what price though? He provides great D so I think he can be a 3&D PG.


I misread the stat. I thought he was averaging 20 and 7 on the season, not just during a 5-game span.

I'm not sure. I honestly haven't watched Schroeder closely enough since his early days. On first glance, $20m+ feels like a lot for him, but he's in his prime and seems to flirt with around 19 and 6 when given the minutes/shots. Is he the final piece for a big three? Probably not, but Donovon will have a good idea if he can do more in an expanded role.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#79 » by drosestruts » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:01 pm

my dream scenario is Kawhi decides this summer that he wants to come here. We tell LA we're prepared to create the necessary cap space by renouncing Lauri and all free agents (Theis, Temple, Valentine, etc.) and stretching any combination of Sato, Young and Aminu and they lose Kawhi for nothing OR they agree to a sign and trade that brings them back Lauri, White, Brown and Aminu.

In my dream world they're selecting option 2 and we're gaining Kawhi without stripping everything down.

I will now go unhealthy convince myself this is destiny then get mad when it doesn't happen.

Sato/Arch
LaVine/Temple/
Kawhi/
Williams/Young
Vucevic/Theis

Maybe we convince Simonivic to come over, use the MLE on a point guard.
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Re: Who is the next target? 

Post#80 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:35 pm

drosestruts wrote:my dream scenario is Kawhi decides this summer that he wants to come here. We tell LA we're prepared to create the necessary cap space by renouncing Lauri and all free agents (Theis, Temple, Valentine, etc.) and stretching any combination of Sato, Young and Aminu and they lose Kawhi for nothing OR they agree to a sign and trade that brings them back Lauri, White, Brown and Aminu.

In my dream world they're selecting option 2 and we're gaining Kawhi without stripping everything down.

I will now go unhealthy convince myself this is destiny then get mad when it doesn't happen.

Sato/Arch
LaVine/Temple/
Kawhi/
Williams/Young
Vucevic/Theis

Maybe we convince Simonivic to come over, use the MLE on a point guard.



I believe Kawhi will leave but not sure why Bulls would be his choice.

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