PG:Bulls Lose

[sco]

A loss is a loss, bummer! That said, I am just happy Lauri seems to be on the outs and we can start moving forward with new guys. Game came down to 19 TO's and shooting 25% from 3.

Zach said he aggravated his ankle and may need to sit. I was glad to see him trying to gut it out, but it probably does more harm than good.

We need to get Vuc more shots in his best positions. That will take time.

PWill seemed a bit more aggressive. I think having Thad out there more with him will help him.

Happy that Theis got 22 min and Brown got 17. Brown got his because Temple went down, but I'd like to see him getting more going forward.

[MrSparkle]

To key in on the positives, starting front-court offense looked pretty good. Vuc and Thad kept finding Pat for buckets, and that was cool.

The defense of all 5 was admittedly bad, but Donovan did say he’s working on offense first, ‘defense will come around.’ Ha - a hopeful philosophy for a late season stretch.

Zach and Sato continue looking awkward. I’d rather go back to Coby in the starting lineup, with a shorter leash, so we get more confident 3P shooting. Sato’s 3P reminds me of Bogans: about 33% on wide (and I mean wide-) open shots.

But for the 40th time, this team needs to get some FTAs on the board. 1/2 FTs at the half. You will not win games with that little help from the refs. Period. OK - GS beat us with less, but they had a hot 3P night which happens with Curry. But FTs are insulation from the ebbs and flows of 3P shooting (cough, Harden). They have inconsistent defenders in Wiseman, Wiggins and Oubre - Bulls couldn’t generate anything outside of Vuc.

The refs were bad, but you can’t play into that.

[ImSlower]

By the way, the next 5 games will be REALLY interesting:

@PHX, @UTA, BRK, @IND, @TOR

Pretty rough. We may be Vegas dogs in all 5. Frankly, winning two would be great.

Like you, I'm not as doom and gloom regarding this season. Players are being tested in many situations,
and simply not coming through (yet?). I think AK n Eversley will make more changes this summer.

That said, I'm also terribly impatient for some effing good results already.

[d boy gentleman]

One more thing: Vuc needs more touches. With Zach being less than 100%, the ball needs to be fed to Vuc. He scored 21 and the Warriors really couldn't stop him at all scoring 21. They play Phoenix which was his last game as a member of the Magic, he abused Ayton for 27 and 14. This needs to be the strategy tomorrow against Phoenix

And Zach needs to sit

[ChettheJet]

Don't read much into the starting 5 and rotation, there are 8 guys after Vuc, Zach and PW that could swap around. Part of Lauri coming off the bench was without White the second unit lacks real firepower so he becomes the scorer. What you also saw was Billy went to the bench early so it didn't become just 5 reserves on the floor at once. That might be the best path going forward. mix and match.

I liked that PW started fast and was aggressive I'd like to see him become the #3 guy on the floor.

[drosestruts]

Going to be difficul to gauge a team with 33% roster turnover during a stretch in which their best player is injured (Lavine), and they're playing some of the top teams in the league.

Not sure what the obsession with Troy Brown Jr is here? Or why he keeps getting brought up as the answer to our defense issues. Guy allowed multiple back door cuts tonight and in general had a bad game.

If we want to talk defense around Zach and Vuc why not - Temple / LaVine / Aminu / Young / Vucevic

Temple we know to be our best perimeter defender all season so far. Aminu was starting at small-forward for the Magic and was starting to round into form right before the trade. Just a week ago he posted a 17 pts, 10 reb, 6 at night vs the Nuggets. We would have a 50 page thread if Williams did that in a game. He'd also be a familiar player out there for Vuc.

While the above lineup doesn't feature a true point guard, I think all players are good enough passers.

We'd then have a bench unit of - Sato / White / Williams / Lauri / Theis.


If Donovan is going to continue to play with rotations and lineups, and our goal is to win this season, I'd like to try this out.

[DuckIII]

Feels like it's always either a sloooow spot up 3 pointer or the weird pull-up / floater hybrid (whch is a very bad shot).

Why is that a “very bad shot”? I’m trying to think of what makes a general shot type “very bad.” It rarely goes in. It’s just inside of the 3pt line (similar difficulty, less reward). Is taken too quickly in the shot clock given game circumstances. Is heavily contested (and rarely goes in).

I guess it’s very unlikely to put him on the line. So in that sense there’s a minor issue with the shot. But that is no different than a standard jumper. I just don’t see how this shot, from Patrick Lee Williams himself, meets the criteria of bad. Let alone very bad.

[Ice Man]

You think NBA refs are bad, watch the no-call when UConn's defender jumps into Baylor's player last night, when the Baylor player was taking a last-second shot with the team down 1. Wow.

[jc23]

I think Chicago could beat this warriors team in a playoffs, but the chemistry issue is something only time can fix. And Zach tweaking his ankle sucks.

[Fastbrk4brkfast]

I think we need to seriously think about starting Theis at PF and Troy Brown Jr. at the point. We need some energy on defense, and those are our most active defenders -- Theis protects the paint and can rotate, Brown is excellent at playing the passing lanes. They also don't need to shoot a lot which will mean more shots for Vuc. We were also at our best with Sato and Young coming off the bench. Their passing and unselfish play should help Coby and Lauri off the bench.

Trying Brown at point guard makes sense especially with Coby out. Starting him there? Nah, too soon.

[fleet]

I wish we were able to keep this year’s pick sheesh Orlando may be better off than thought. Glad it’s a lil protected

[DuckIII]

I think we need to seriously think about starting Theis at PF and Troy Brown Jr. at the point. We need some energy on defense, and those are our most active defenders -- Theis protects the paint and can rotate, Brown is excellent at playing the passing lanes. They also don't need to shoot a lot which will mean more shots for Vuc. We were also at our best with Sato and Young coming off the bench. Their passing and unselfish play should help Coby and Lauri off the bench.

Trying Brown at point guard makes sense especially with Coby out. Starting him there? Nah, too soon.

I don’t think Troy Brown has played point guard since HS.

[TheSuzerain]

Feels like it's always either a sloooow spot up 3 pointer or the weird pull-up / floater hybrid (whch is a very bad shot).

Why is that a “very bad shot”? I’m trying to think of what makes a general shot type “very bad.” It rarely goes in. It’s just inside of the 3pt line (similar difficulty, less reward). Is taken too quickly in the shot clock given game circumstances. Is heavily contested (and rarely goes in).

I guess it’s very unlikely to put him on the line. So in that sense there’s a minor issue with the shot. But that is no different than a standard jumper. I just don’t see how this shot, from Patrick Lee Williams himself, meets the criteria of bad. Let alone very bad.

It's a bad shot. Like you said, he's not going to go to the line much with it. And on the year, he's shooting 38% from 3-10 feet and 48% from 10-16 feet. That's simply bad offense (even though 48% is actually great percentage).

A big part of Pat's progression is going to involve him turning those shots into 3's.

Only exception to that is end of the shot-clock situations and some crunch time situations.

[PrimzyBulls81]

Something is wrong here.. Losing continues!
I mean BD and co. arent exactly doing their job as good as we hoped. We were all happy that JB is gone, but at least we played good defense. Now its not here nor there. Zach struggling is hurting the Bulls sure, but... I dont know, just dissapointing loss once again, bad offense, bad defense.. I would put Theis in starting lineup, bcs Vuc is also bad on D. If Zach is hurt give him a god damn rest for two games. AKME should put their foot on the ground for it.

Sato/Lavine/PWill/Theis/Vucevic
White/Temple/Brown/Thad/Lauri

But there has to be one or the other Zach/Vuc on the floor all the time, also one defensive stoper aka PWill or Brown.

PWill and Brown are defensive stoppers now???

Williams has been one of the worst Bulls defenders all season and Brown has done nothing so far to suggest he's above average in any way.

These fan narratives absolutely kill me.

well per Bulls standards they kinda are LOL and Theis is probably our best defender now among bigs

[NecessaryEvil]

Gonna be a minute before these guys get any kind chemistry. Gonna have to be patient

[DuckIII]

Feels like it's always either a sloooow spot up 3 pointer or the weird pull-up / floater hybrid (whch is a very bad shot).

Why is that a “very bad shot”? I’m trying to think of what makes a general shot type “very bad.” It rarely goes in. It’s just inside of the 3pt line (similar difficulty, less reward). Is taken too quickly in the shot clock given game circumstances. Is heavily contested (and rarely goes in).

I guess it’s very unlikely to put him on the line. So in that sense there’s a minor issue with the shot. But that is no different than a standard jumper. I just don’t see how this shot, from Patrick Lee Williams himself, meets the criteria of bad. Let alone very bad.

It's a bad shot. Like you said, he's not going to go to the line much with it. And on the year, he's shooting 38% from 3-10 feet and 48% from 10-16 feet. That's simply bad offense (even though 48% is actually great percentage).

A big part of Pat's progression is going to involve him turning those shots into 3's.

Only exception to that is end of the shot-clock situations and some crunch time situations.

None of that makes that particular shot bad, because there is no miss/make percentage. And there are a load of shots within those distance ranges that are not his “runner.”

Seems to me he makes it at a pretty high percentage based on the advanced metric of “what the hell is he doing, oh he made it again like usual” conversion rate. I guess I could go to NBA.com and watch all his fga for 44 games but I’m not invested in this issue enough to do that.

[MrSparkle]

If the team wants to create an offensive identity, then you need Valentine or Temple starting at SF to give the team some spacing/handles/passing, with Pat sliding back to PF. Gonna be very ugly defense, but as far as I can tell, the current defense is ugly anyway. I’m not liking how difficult it is for Sato to get Vuc the ball; he’s simply a bad starting PG. Good at intangibles.

I don’t think Billy will start Troy. That would create tension amongst the demoted (Lauri, Coby, Valentine), as the new kid gets starter minutes without putting in the work.

But if Zach sits out, Valentine might get the starting job anyway. And I wouldn’t be surprised if he made the offense run more smoothly. Most underrated Bull of the season IMO.

Donovan might want to try the lamented ogre lineup; Lauri-Thad-Theis frontcourt, with Arci and Troy in the back. I’ve long said Lauri isn’t a SF, but I don’t like the “pairs.” Sooner just consolidate into a kooky bench, that atleast addresses spacing, rebounding and passing.

*assuming Zach/Coby sit a few games

Sato-Valentine-Temple-Pat-Vuc
Bottom 1st close with: Arci-Troy-Lauri-Theis-Thad

But i don’t think Billy goes for the unconventional. Kind of reminding me of how Thibs stuck with Noah/Gasol even though it was obviously not an ideal pairing for the “new” NBA.

One thing about big lineups, is they either click (last year Lakers) or they don’t (bubble Nuggets). When they don’t, it’s ugly. Nuggets had to switch to small schemes to get past the first round and continue their success (more Morris+Jamal, Grant+Harris, less MPJ/Craig + Millsap).

[TheSuzerain]

I am somewhat concerned with the Lavine/Vuc fit offensively.

I think Vuc thrives in a team concept with snappy decisions and ball movement.

I know we like to think Lavine does too, but I think the truth of it is that Lavine best fit by far is what we had pre-Vuc trade where he could just thoughtlessly gun and freelance to get his own buckets.

Maybe Lavine can fill the Klay Thompson type role off-ball, but I don't think he's going to be averaging 30 points a game in that case.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

Need more of Theis, TBJ, and Green. They all look like they can play, but more importantly - defend. Need to gel everything together now

[ZOMG]

I think we need to seriously think about starting Theis at PF and Troy Brown Jr. at the point. We need some energy on defense, and those are our most active defenders -- Theis protects the paint and can rotate, Brown is excellent at playing the passing lanes. They also don't need to shoot a lot which will mean more shots for Vuc. We were also at our best with Sato and Young coming off the bench. Their passing and unselfish play should help Coby and Lauri off the bench.

Trying Brown at point guard makes sense especially with Coby out. Starting him there? Nah, too soon.

I don’t think Troy Brown has played point guard since HS.

Everyone in this league was a HS point guard.

I'm only partly kidding. Most NBA players were BY FAR the best ballhandlers of their teams at that age, and thus dribbled the ball a lot, no matter what position they played.