PG:Bulls Lose

[ZOMG]

I am somewhat concerned with the Lavine/Vuc fit offensively.

I think Vuc thrives in a team concept with snappy decisions and ball movement.

I know we like to think Lavine does too, but I think the truth of it is that Lavine best fit by far is what we had pre-Vuc trade where he could just thoughtlessly gun and freelance to get his own buckets.

Maybe Lavine can fill the Klay Thompson type role off-ball, but I don't think he's going to be averaging 30 points a game in that case.

Bingo.

Zero chemistry, zero fit, big problem, major staggering needed.

Vuc is a team concept dude, that much is crystal clear. He thrives on ball movement, passing to cutters and shooters, and taking what the game gives him. Zach is pretty much the opposite.

[Tetlak]

I am somewhat concerned with the Lavine/Vuc fit offensively.

I think Vuc thrives in a team concept with snappy decisions and ball movement.

I know we like to think Lavine does too, but I think the truth of it is that Lavine best fit by far is what we had pre-Vuc trade where he could just thoughtlessly gun and freelance to get his own buckets.

Maybe Lavine can fill the Klay Thompson type role off-ball, but I don't think he's going to be averaging 30 points a game in that case.

Bingo.

Zero chemistry, zero fit, big problem, major staggering needed.

Vuc is a team concept dude, that much is crystal clear. He thrives on ball movement, passing to cutters and shooters, and taking what the game gives him. Zach is pretty much the opposite.

This take makes zero sense to me. You literally just described Thad Young, who has phenomenal chemistry with Zach. Vuce is a much better player than Thad. It will come with time.

[MrSparkle]

I am somewhat concerned with the Lavine/Vuc fit offensively.

I think Vuc thrives in a team concept with snappy decisions and ball movement.

I know we like to think Lavine does too, but I think the truth of it is that Lavine best fit by far is what we had pre-Vuc trade where he could just thoughtlessly gun and freelance to get his own buckets.

Maybe Lavine can fill the Klay Thompson type role off-ball, but I don't think he's going to be averaging 30 points a game in that case.

The way I saw it, Zach needed to learn a two-man game. He’s improved seeing double-team traps and schemes, and before this slump, was pretty unstoppable in iso/1-on-1. but I’ve still never seen him make simple two-man plays besides pick and pop with Lauri. Now Thad is an example of a much more versatile partner, but he and Zach are volatile in their creation (look a little out of control, and it works against sub-500 teams and benches, but not a winning combo against +500 starters).

With Vuc, there are dozens more possibilities to explore, cause he basically shoots like Lauri, dribbles and passes with more control than Thagic and is a better post scorer. Zach expressed desire to run with a dominant center. IMO he needs this development to make sure we’re not investing max salary into an empty calorie scorer. At max salary, he should prove to be a net-positive (rather unstoppable) combo with Vuc. Definitely can't get that in a 2-game sample.

Zach and Thad were a huge plus compared to other Bulls 2-man lineups, so I’m optimistic with time Vuc/Zach will be a strong offensive tandem. If it pans out, then people won’t worry much about their defense. Early Murray and Jokic defensive tape would've made Thibodeau cry.

[Devinpo]

I am somewhat concerned with the Lavine/Vuc fit offensively.

I think Vuc thrives in a team concept with snappy decisions and ball movement.

I know we like to think Lavine does too, but I think the truth of it is that Lavine best fit by far is what we had pre-Vuc trade where he could just thoughtlessly gun and freelance to get his own buckets.

Maybe Lavine can fill the Klay Thompson type role off-ball, but I don't think he's going to be averaging 30 points a game in that case.

Bingo.

Zero chemistry, zero fit, big problem, major staggering needed.

Vuc is a team concept dude, that much is crystal clear. He thrives on ball movement, passing to cutters and shooters, and taking what the game gives him. Zach is pretty much the opposite.

This take makes zero sense to me. You literally just described Thad Young, who has phenomenal chemistry with Zach. Vuce is a much better player than Thad. It will come with time.

It’s only been 2 games! It’s sucks they lost and don’t look good but give these guys time to Mesh before we assume it’s a failure. Honesty I think this season is a wash now, but after training camp and preseason next year we will be really good. I know we will fill the PG void as well

[RSP83]

These post-trade losses is on BD. But, no need to panic, just focus on figuring out how to maximize this new roster. Zach has been in some sort of a slump post All-Star game. It could be the minor injury still bother him, but I still think he's playing below his level. He needs to bounce back.

[DuckIII]

I am somewhat concerned with the Lavine/Vuc fit offensively.

I think Vuc thrives in a team concept with snappy decisions and ball movement.

I know we like to think Lavine does too, but I think the truth of it is that Lavine best fit by far is what we had pre-Vuc trade where he could just thoughtlessly gun and freelance to get his own buckets.

Maybe Lavine can fill the Klay Thompson type role off-ball, but I don't think he's going to be averaging 30 points a game in that case.

Valid concern. But we’ve seen Zach make progress away from this play style this season. I’m optimistic about the issue, especially once we add a playmaker.

[MJPipRose]

Here is another thought, I think we should keep Thad in his bench role.

The thing I have said is, we are actually nerfing Thad by starting him. Him as a starter is solid, but him as a bench guy is amazing. I bet his PER and other things look much better off the bench.

He is basically playing the same minutes and just about the same numbers but his efficiency is down and his turnovers are up. So in fact we are making Thad less effective than he was previously.

I said maybe Billy needs to think completely out the box. Move Pat Williams over to the 4 and start Brown at the 3. I think it can solidify the starting unit because I think Pat can handle 4s and make them pay on the other end.

This was my thought as well. Brown Jr. Should start, wasn't sure why J Green was in before him. I mean I get Green is more of a SG and Brown Jr. More of a 3 but I'd still put him ahead of Green.

[Am2626]

I am somewhat concerned with the Lavine/Vuc fit offensively.

I think Vuc thrives in a team concept with snappy decisions and ball movement.

I know we like to think Lavine does too, but I think the truth of it is that Lavine best fit by far is what we had pre-Vuc trade where he could just thoughtlessly gun and freelance to get his own buckets.

Maybe Lavine can fill the Klay Thompson type role off-ball, but I don't think he's going to be averaging 30 points a game in that case.

Bingo.

Zero chemistry, zero fit, big problem, major staggering needed.

Vuc is a team concept dude, that much is crystal clear. He thrives on ball movement, passing to cutters and shooters, and taking what the game gives him. Zach is pretty much the opposite.

You have to give these guys some time. They are not going to come in on day one and be world beaters. Let them just use the rest of this year to figure out how to play with each other. I’d rather have them use this time to work through these things so they can come in next year all on the same page. It’s not the end of the world if they don’t make the playoffs. This move isn’t just a short term fix that is measured by how quickly they can make the playoffs. Honestly I would rather see them miss the playoffs and get a top 4 pick and role into next year as a serious playoff contender. In my opinion that is the best case scenario.

[jStuNNa]

I get why a lot of people are concerned after two double-digits losses, but I'm actually encouraged by what I saw against the Warriors. Vuc is really good for one. Patrick Williams looked great offensively. Theis brings a nice combination of hustle, skill and IQ. And I'm high on Brown as a ball handler. I enjoyed watching all of them last night.

I like Laurie's scoring punch off the bench. Zach and Coby are just tired from a long season and are a little banged up. They both probably have the most adjusting to do cause they're so use to being the primary shot creators.

When they get their second wind and better acclimated, this Bulls team is going to start winning games. Give it some time.

[WindyCityBorn]

Also if lauri is benched, thad is NOT the answer. He's already a worse turnstile on defense vs Lauri. And now he doesn't get fully utilized in his center hub role which made him so impactful earlier on with vuc in the floor.

Thad is absolutely a better defender than Lauri. The only thing Lauri does better than Thad is shoot.

No, you WANT him to be a better defender than Lauri. There's a slight difference.

Yeah I WANT a 33 year old journeyman to be better than Lauri. /s

[WindyCityBorn]

I get why a lot of people are concerned after two double-digits losses, but I'm actually encouraged by what I saw against the Warriors. Vuc is really good for one. Patrick Williams looked great offensively. Theis brings a nice combination of hustle, skill and IQ. And I'm high on Brown as a ball handler. I enjoyed watching all of them last night.

I like Laurie's scoring punch off the bench. Zach and Coby are just tired from a long season and are a little banged up. They both probably have the most adjusting to do cause they're so use to being the primary shot creators.

When they get their second wind and better acclimated, this Bulls team is going to start winning games. Give it some time.

Zach is still the primary shot creator when healthy. He needs to sit a week or however long if takes to get right.

Can’t Get Right R.I.P.

[HOTCARL_o]

Watch on YouTube

Zach might sit out next game

[Fastbrk4brkfast]

Trying Brown at point guard makes sense especially with Coby out. Starting him there? Nah, too soon.

I don’t think Troy Brown has played point guard since HS.

Everyone in this league was a HS point guard.

I'm only partly kidding. Most NBA players were BY FAR the best ballhandlers of their teams at that age, and thus dribbled the ball a lot, no matter what position they played.

Hey at one point there was a groundswell on this board to try James Johnson at pg. As mad science experiments go I'd give Troy a better shot than JJ.

[coldfish]

Before I say anything, I want to acknowledge my dunce hat. I strongly endorsed the trade deadline trades and they aren't working out. What matters is wins and losses and that's now two bad losses. If this continues and the Bulls give up a 7 or 8 pick here, it will be terrible for Chicago and it will end up being one of my worst positions I have taken on realgm. I'll have years of egg on my face.

I do have to note that as of right now, Vucevic is working as expected.
27.1 PER
68.3%ts
17.2%reb
27.3% assist rate
26 11 and 6 per 36

The rest of the team is struggling to just put it all together and if that never happens, not good.

[PaKii94]

Before I say anything, I want to acknowledge my dunce hat. I strongly endorsed the trade deadline trades and they aren't working out. What matters is wins and losses and that's now two bad losses. If this continues and the Bulls give up a 7 or 8 pick here, it will be terrible for Chicago and it will end up being one of my worst positions I have taken on realgm. I'll have years of egg on my face.

I do have to note that as of right now, Vucevic is working as expected.
27.1 PER
68.3%ts
17.2%reb
27.3% assist rate
26 11 and 6 per 36

The rest of the team is struggling to just put it all together and if that never happens, not good.

Vuc has been a sidegrade so far. I like him but he's pretty much replaced thad and Lauri's production. Not added to it. We didn't really address the fundemental flaws of this team with him. NO primary playmaker and poor interior defense (along with poor perimeter defense)

[DuckIII]

Before I say anything, I want to acknowledge my dunce hat. I strongly endorsed the trade deadline trades and they aren't working out. What matters is wins and losses and that's now two bad losses. If this continues and the Bulls give up a 7 or 8 pick here, it will be terrible for Chicago and it will end up being one of my worst positions I have taken on realgm. I'll have years of egg on my face.

Oh, phooey. We all get predictive opinions wrong. Plus it will take time to judge these trades. Frankly this summer is as importance as the deadline deals themselves, since we all agree they constitute an incomplete plan.

[waffle]

There is NO WAY IN HECK we can evaluate these trades yet. We just turned over a TON of our team. At best what would they be over the last 2? 1 and 1? I am not all shocked they lost them both.

Anyone panicking now is clutching their pearls big time.

I would not be shocked if it took them 4 or 5 games to just look like they are on the same page. But this team is way better now than it was and quite possibly competitive in the playoffs, not just making the playoffs.

[waffle]

and..
- think we have a better chance of resigning Zack now
- and I think we have a much better chance of landing a top or near top tier FA, something I was not at all confident of before.

Nobody on this boards likes draft picks more than I do. but these were sounds moves. TIme will tell, of course....

[MGB8]

Before I say anything, I want to acknowledge my dunce hat. I strongly endorsed the trade deadline trades and they aren't working out. What matters is wins and losses and that's now two bad losses. If this continues and the Bulls give up a 7 or 8 pick here, it will be terrible for Chicago and it will end up being one of my worst positions I have taken on realgm. I'll have years of egg on my face.

I do have to note that as of right now, Vucevic is working as expected.
27.1 PER
68.3%ts
17.2%reb
27.3% assist rate
26 11 and 6 per 36

The rest of the team is struggling to just put it all together and if that never happens, not good.

Vuc has been a sidegrade so far. I like him but he's pretty much replaced thad and Lauri's production. Not added to it. We didn't really address the fundemental flaws of this team with him. NO primary playmaker and poor interior defense (along with poor perimeter defense)

Enough with defending Lauri, aka Paleface Portis. He’s a good bench big and that is it. Awful defender. Yes, awful. Poor rebounder. Worse passer. If his shot isn’t falling he gives you nothing.

Vic is a massive upgrade over both Lauri and Thad as a big, and only an insane amount of willful blindness doesn’t see that.

As for the trade, a couple more games to see if it will work or if it was a terrible miscalculation on a bottom 5 talent roster. Lavine being injured hurts a lot, because there is no real guard talent on the team besides him. White is, sadly, a Killpatrick level player - a bust, along with Wendell Carter Jr (who should never have been drafted in the first place, an obvious McDermott level mistake).

[HomoSapien]

Before I say anything, I want to acknowledge my dunce hat. I strongly endorsed the trade deadline trades and they aren't working out. What matters is wins and losses and that's now two bad losses. If this continues and the Bulls give up a 7 or 8 pick here, it will be terrible for Chicago and it will end up being one of my worst positions I have taken on realgm. I'll have years of egg on my face.

I do have to note that as of right now, Vucevic is working as expected.
27.1 PER
68.3%ts
17.2%reb
27.3% assist rate
26 11 and 6 per 36

The rest of the team is struggling to just put it all together and if that never happens, not good.

Meh, it's so early. We lost 7 of our first 11 after the Brad Miller/John Salmons trade. It takes time to incorporate new talent, and we're trying to do it in the middle of our hardest stretch of the season.