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the magic won the trade

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the magic won the trade 

Post#1 » by Ugly Duckling » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:59 pm

think about it. fultz was playing well before he went down, same with issac. they got rid of 30 year old vooch at his peak when he had to pick up the slack and his numbers were inflated. he's a good player, but not a difference maker as the magic sit right next to the bottom of the east. they get carter, whos a bench player, but def playable with room to grow being only 21. he could develop into the best back up big in the game, or even into a starting-caliber big in a few yrs. then they get 2 of our firsts over the next 3yrs while keeping their own. fleeced? i think so
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#2 » by DuckIII » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:08 pm

Ugly Duckling wrote:think about it. fultz was playing well before he went down, same with issac. they got rid of 30 year old vooch at his peak when he had to pick up the slack and his numbers were inflated. he's a good player, but not a difference maker as the magic sit right next to the bottom of the east. they get carter, whos a bench player, but def playable with room to grow being only 21. he could develop into the best back up big in the game, or even into a starting-caliber big in a few yrs. then they get 2 of our firsts over the next 3yrs while keeping their own. fleeced? i think so


Well they didn’t “lose” the trade because they are intentionally stripping the team down of primary players and replacing them with draft assets. So yeah, they did a fine job. And we know at minimum Boston was trying for Vuc so presumably Orlando took the best offer.

I never considered this trade as a win/loss issue. It was the Washington and Boston trades that, to me, jumped out as Bulls “wins.”

Though Washington may have been angling for athletic/length upgrades, which they got. So they may have “won” from their perspective as well.

But Boston lost. :lol:
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#3 » by nekorajo » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:08 pm

Its way too early for a final judgment. Let's give it some time.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#4 » by DuckIII » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:11 pm

nekorajo wrote:Its way too early for a final judgment. Let's give it some time.


I don’t even know that it needs time. Trade partners often make deals with completely different goals. Undeniably Orlando accomplished their immediate goal. So I think we can call it a win for them.

Which, of course, does not mean the Bulls lost. The Bulls had a completely different set of goals.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#5 » by gobullschi » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:14 pm

Both teams accomplished what they were trying to accomplish. You can’t designate who won a trade this early in the process.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#6 » by VolumePoster » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:15 pm

This was a win-win trade. Which is the point of equitable trading; finding teams which have resources that have a different value per party, and aligning the values. It looks bad now because Zach s ankle fell off after we made the trade.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#7 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:27 pm

gobullschi wrote:Both teams accomplished what they were trying to accomplish. You can’t designate who won a trade this early in the process.

What Chicago is trying to accomplish is rather unclear which is the core issue.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#8 » by erlim » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:36 pm

No way, that's extreme hyperbole. It's ridiculous. Call me when Fultz and his broke shot are even in the same highlight reel as Zach Lavine. Wendell Carter Jr. on his best day will never ever ever have the on-court impact of Vucevic on his most ineffective day. And if we walked away from the table so horribly fleeced---we're gonna get our top 4 picks anyway. I call Chicago bull.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#9 » by Bullflip » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:36 pm

Each team had different goals. I think the major reason is to show Lavine that they are serious of building the team around him or he will just walk. Lavine isn’t going to wait for the draft picks to develop. Right or wrong, the Bulls have decided to build around Lavine and ride this iteration out
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#10 » by TheFinishSniper » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:36 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
gobullschi wrote:Both teams accomplished what they were trying to accomplish. You can’t designate who won a trade this early in the process.

What Chicago is trying to accomplish is rather unclear which is the core issue.


it's pretty clear what we plan. not suck. not tank. not pick high in lottery. not lose most of games. put competitive team on floor. play good basketball. be free agent destination. can this franchise do it. likely not at this moment. because many players on a team never were part of good basketball team. they dont have winning mentality and at the end chemistry issues will percipe. but can they turn it around. yes likely. it wont happen until they solve issue of main ball handler, taking care of ball, cutting down turnovers. but when it happens we wont have capspace to make moves to improve team further. will because of that statement "magic won a trade" continue, I dont know. but you can only go so long drafting 7th and drafting crap.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#11 » by waffle » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:37 pm

1. Got rid of a MESS of players we didn't need/want. Astonishing how they did that. And the 2nd tier players we got in return might actually help...wow!
2. Got a freaking all star in return. Warts? Sure. Everything has warts. Now they need to learn to play together
3. You can't take trade 1 without looking at trade 2 as part of the whole. Theis is a win and a strong fit
4. Nobody loves draft picks more than I do but even HIGH picks are a crap shoot. Look at our recent record for proof. And a fairly high % of the top picks turn out to actually be BAD.
5. If the goal is to be competitive this obviously helps
6. If the goal is to resign Z this obviously helps
7. if the goal is to become a destination team this obviously helps

If you look at the sum of the moves this team is WAY better now and going forward. We are also still quite young which makes those picks less of an issue.

Amazingly, I think people are underestimating Vuch. He's REALLY good but he has a skillset that we haven't seen in....A LONG TIME and it will take this team some games to click but I am looking forward to some actually competent basketball (for a change....)
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#12 » by logical_art » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:39 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
gobullschi wrote:Both teams accomplished what they were trying to accomplish. You can’t designate who won a trade this early in the process.

What Chicago is trying to accomplish is rather unclear which is the core issue.


“I was 32 years old, in baseball for my first of 18 years,” Samson recalled. “And [Reinsdorf] said, ‘You know what, here’s my best advice to you: finish in second place every single year because your fans will say ‘Wow, we’ve got a shot, we’re in it,’ but there’s always the carrot left. There’s always one more step to take.’”


https://sports.yahoo.com/white-sox-owner-jerry-reinsdorf-denies-advocating-for-team-to-always-finish-in-second-place-150258987.html
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#13 » by RSP83 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:41 pm

Had we won the last 2 games, we wouldn't have this thread. I'm taking a wait and see approach with this team. I still think we have a much better roster than before trade. We should be better, I'm going to be patient.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#14 » by Wingy » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:42 pm

waffle wrote:Amazingly, I think people are underestimating Vuch. He's REALLY good but he has a skillset that we haven't seen in....A LONG TIME and it will take this team some games to click but I am looking forward to some actually competent basketball (for a change....)


waffle! Maybe I’ve just missed it, but can’t recall seeing you post for a really long time. Good to see an old screen name from back in my earliest days.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#15 » by waffle » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:46 pm

Wingy! I've been about. This trade, and the reaction, has gotten me intrigued.

Our team is just so much better now, so much more balanced. We now might have actual rotations rather than Coach D. playing mad scientist from game to game.

Vuch is just such a fundy guy. And smart. When was the last time we had an actual competent 5? Been ages
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#16 » by TheStig » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:49 pm

The magic were planning to be a playoff team and have been led to the playoffs by Vuc. This is just the opportunity to cash in and maximize their pick. They have no shot at the playoffs and all Vuc would have done is get them the #7 pick. Now they got another first, a young player and will be picking in the top 3 in a good draft.

The Bulls got an all star and someone who fits what they do and a modern big. They gave up a guy they benched, a guy who is overpaid and 2 middling 1sts that are protected.

Call it a win win.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#17 » by The Force. » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:59 pm

There's literally no way of knowing that until the picks convey and we see how good those players are.

As of now I'd say the trade was fairly even but if one of the picks turns out to be a stud obviously the Magic won.

I will say this, if Chicago tanks and lands a top 4 pick this year the trade won't look nearly as good for Orlando considering we have a lot more talent and leverage going into next season, which likely translates to more wins.

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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#18 » by RSP83 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:01 pm

34 year old Pau was still really good when he joined us. Peak Gasol was better than Vuc, but 30 year old Vuc is a better player than 34 year old Gasol. And 34 year old Gasol was a legit All-Star. So, I think Vuc is still a very high level player. We have our 2 All-Stars in Zach and Vuc. Now we just need to play better basketball as a team. We're a better team than what we saw the last 2 games. Although 'Better' here does not mean in a "We're world beaters" sense. We have a team capable of playing good competitive basketball. Heck, early this season we all said it that, we are now a competitive basketball team that has a chance to win any game. We are watchable, and this is with pre-trade deadline roster (without Lauri and OPJ for most of the time). We're in a funk right now, the team just need to break the funk and BD to get things back on track.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#19 » by Bulliever2020 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:05 pm

These short term hot takes when the trade is less than 2 weeks old are embarassing
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#20 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
gobullschi wrote:Both teams accomplished what they were trying to accomplish. You can’t designate who won a trade this early in the process.

What Chicago is trying to accomplish is rather unclear which is the core issue.


it's pretty clear what we plan. not suck. not tank. not pick high in lottery. not lose most of games. put competitive team on floor. play good basketball. be free agent destination. can this franchise do it. likely not at this moment. because many players on a team never were part of good basketball team. they dont have winning mentality and at the end chemistry issues will percipe. but can they turn it around. yes likely. it wont happen until they solve issue of main ball handler, taking care of ball, cutting down turnovers. but when it happens we wont have capspace to make moves to improve team further. will because of that statement "magic won a trade" continue, I dont know. but you can only go so long drafting 7th and drafting crap.

It's just frustrating that they very easily could have just engaged on that plan in the summer with a nice high lottery pick in their back pocket. Along with some extra assets for dealing Thad/Sato.

I see obvious downsides to making a move for Vuc (or an equivalent move) now during the season. I see little reward for doing it now during the season.

AK showed no patience and now we're mediocre while also being out of meaningful trade capital/cap space.

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