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the magic won the trade

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coldfish
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#161 » by coldfish » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:33 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
BeatDaCavs420 wrote:Im convinced some posters in this thread would rather see this trade fail just so they can say "Told ya so!". That is not a fan to me. That's a person with a agenda


1000% correct, as the post just above yours proved beyond a shadow of a doubt:

"the Bulls are a worse team record wise after the trade than before it. As long as that continues to be true, of course Orlando won the trade."

One can live with that logic, until one sees how 100% disingenuous it is:

"If that changes, then we can have a more interesting discussion."

If you buy that the Bulls are a worst record after the trade, it means OF COURSE the Magic won the trade, don't you have to also 100% buy that OF COURSE the Bulls won the trade if we wind up with a better record team wise after the trade?

Sorry for mentioning COMMON SENSE, but you can't have it both ways.

Worst record = bad trade, of course

If that changes (BETTER RECORD), we can have a more interesting discussion. :lol:

Sorry, but this is a person who obviously and blatantly has a double standard. If he didn't, "if that changes" would mean the Bulls won the trade, using his "worse record = OF COURSE Orlando won the trade".

Sorry but this is BS. Disingenuous, double-standard, losses matter but wins don't.


What the actual F?

You have tortured logic so badly with this post that the UN is considering indicting you for war crimes.

I fully supported the trade. I wanted to trade for Vuc a month or more before it happened. At the beginning of the season I was supporting the idea of this type of upgrade trade. That said, if the trade functionally makes the team worse, then I am wrong and don’t have a leg to stand on. I have no issue admitting that. If the team improves, then it’s an interesting discussion because some only consider moves that directly lead to a title as a good idea whereas I think that baby steps forward are a good idea.

Make sense?
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#162 » by coldfish » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:45 pm

Just as a clear FYI, I think the Bulls won the trade. IMO, Wendell is a role player near replacement value. He is the type of player you can pick up for the MLE. The two picks will be in the teens or later where a lot of the players drafted don’t even work out. The Bulls functionally gave up a pupu platter of nothing for a top level player who fits great with your current all star and scheme.

Right now, I don’t have a w/l record or stats to point to to prove I’m right. I get that. In a few weeks if things go as I expect, then I’ll have some fun.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#163 » by Ugly Duckling » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:48 pm

Sinistar6 wrote:I don’t understand how anyone does not like this trade. I have been in on tank for 10 years and now, for the first time in a long time I like our core. It may be me getting old and seeing how our 5-20 picks have been bad so far, but give me a 20/10 multi-skilled 30 year old center over 2 10ish picks twice on Friday. Adding that to the talented youth and we are building something.


you're bringing the past into it. i get that its emotional, i just dont think swapping out a 30 y/o old vooch for a 21 y/o carter moves the needle enough to give up 2 firsts. ak found the joker with a second. now there was luck involved and it could even have been a fluke (lets see how pw pans out). hope im wrong. and if we attract a top tier fa because of this and/or ak already has something in the pipeline, then obviously it was a good move
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#164 » by The Explorer » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:04 am

coldfish wrote:Just as a clear FYI, I think the Bulls won the trade. IMO, Wendell is a role player near replacement value. He is the type of player you can pick up for the MLE. The two picks will be in the teens or later where a lot of the players drafted don’t even work out. The Bulls functionally gave up a pupu platter of nothing for a top level player who fits great with your current all star and scheme.

Right now, I don’t have a w/l record or stats to point to to prove I’m right. I get that. In a few weeks if things go as I expect, then I’ll have some fun.


The flip side is if the Magic draft a star player with those late picks. Leonard, Vucevic, Tobias, Giannis, Gobert and even Butler were all picked at #15 or later. The chances of that happening are low, but we won't know for sure until several years from now.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#165 » by Sinistar6 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:50 am

Ugly Duckling wrote:
Sinistar6 wrote:I don’t understand how anyone does not like this trade. I have been in on tank for 10 years and now, for the first time in a long time I like our core. It may be me getting old and seeing how our 5-20 picks have been bad so far, but give me a 20/10 multi-skilled 30 year old center over 2 10ish picks twice on Friday. Adding that to the talented youth and we are building something.


you're bringing the past into it. i get that its emotional, i just dont think swapping out a 30 y/o old vooch for a 21 y/o carter moves the needle enough to give up 2 firsts. ak found the joker with a second. now there was luck involved and it could even have been a fluke (lets see how pw pans out). hope im wrong. and if we attract a top tier fa because of this and/or ak already has something in the pipeline, then obviously it was a good move


This is such an interesting note I did not realize before. AK is using his formula and got his joker copy center. DUH, I am sure you guys have talked about it. Vooch is skilled not the joker so we will see how that works out. Also explains why we got him in a way because vooch is more important to our plan than he is to other teams that do not build that way.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#166 » by Am2626 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:04 am

The Explorer wrote:
coldfish wrote:Just as a clear FYI, I think the Bulls won the trade. IMO, Wendell is a role player near replacement value. He is the type of player you can pick up for the MLE. The two picks will be in the teens or later where a lot of the players drafted don’t even work out. The Bulls functionally gave up a pupu platter of nothing for a top level player who fits great with your current all star and scheme.

Right now, I don’t have a w/l record or stats to point to to prove I’m right. I get that. In a few weeks if things go as I expect, then I’ll have some fun.


The flip side is if the Magic draft a star player with those late picks. Leonard, Vucevic, Tobias, Giannis, Gobert and even Butler were all picked at #15 or later. The chances of that happening are low, but we won't know for sure until several years from now.


The reality of it is the Bulls received a star player in Vuc and the chances of Orlando getting back a star player are extremely remote. We are talking about a known star in Vuc vs an extremely unlikely chance of a star with either draft pick or WCJ developing into that player.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#167 » by kodo » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:25 pm

The Explorer wrote:
coldfish wrote:Just as a clear FYI, I think the Bulls won the trade. IMO, Wendell is a role player near replacement value. He is the type of player you can pick up for the MLE. The two picks will be in the teens or later where a lot of the players drafted don’t even work out. The Bulls functionally gave up a pupu platter of nothing for a top level player who fits great with your current all star and scheme.

Right now, I don’t have a w/l record or stats to point to to prove I’m right. I get that. In a few weeks if things go as I expect, then I’ll have some fun.


The flip side is if the Magic draft a star player with those late picks. Leonard, Vucevic, Tobias, Giannis, Gobert and even Butler were all picked at #15 or later. The chances of that happening are low, but we won't know for sure until several years from now.


Agreed, it takes a very long time to evaluate such a big trade.

I remember when the Deron Williams trade was supposed to be highway robbery. The outgoing assets were
1. Super Athletic 19 year old 6' 10" PF/C drafted #3 overall
2. 1st round pick, #3
3. future 1st round pick

That package looked amazing at the time. But in retrospect, Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter, and Gorgui Dieng were never franchise changing players.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#168 » by jump » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:34 pm

The whole notion of winning or losing a trade a week after it happens is idiotic. Do we really have defend this trade against this incessant negativity?

If you’re going to claim to be a fan, you should look up the definition.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#169 » by CaPiTanAK » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:59 pm

Ugly Duckling wrote:
Sinistar6 wrote:I don’t understand how anyone does not like this trade. I have been in on tank for 10 years and now, for the first time in a long time I like our core. It may be me getting old and seeing how our 5-20 picks have been bad so far, but give me a 20/10 multi-skilled 30 year old center over 2 10ish picks twice on Friday. Adding that to the talented youth and we are building something.


you're bringing the past into it. i get that its emotional, i just dont think swapping out a 30 y/o old vooch for a 21 y/o carter moves the needle enough to give up 2 firsts. ak found the joker with a second. now there was luck involved and it could even have been a fluke (lets see how pw pans out). hope im wrong. and if we attract a top tier fa because of this and/or ak already has something in the pipeline, then obviously it was a good move


And if there is such available player available, there is nothing to stop us from trading our vets, aka Sato or Thadd plus taking salaries to get a pick #10-20 and draft such player.

The process is an ongoing talent evaluation process in order to make the team better. Obviously, this thought process is foreign to trash execs like GarPax who like similar trash players.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#170 » by Ice Man » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:17 pm

It's pretty unlikely we will lose the trade, since we got the best player in the deal, and the team that gets the best player wins 90% of trades. The exception would be if Vuce's game suddenly collapsed, or one of the two FRPs that we give up turns out to be a unicorn. Both small possibilities, but possibilities nonetheless.
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Re: the magic won the trade 

Post#171 » by waffle » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:20 pm

and I think the Theis trade was knowingly complimentary. He's EXACTLY the type of player we needed considering what was going out/what was coming in.

We are a dramatically better team now. we have the potential to be actually good for the first time in a while.

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