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The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft

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The Box Office
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#21 » by The Box Office » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:11 am

Disagree about the 2018 Draft and Michael Porter Jr.

Why are you guys still salty about this? It's 2021. There's nothing you can do to reverse time. It's done. It's all in the past. He has NOTHING to do with the "right now" for us.

For the record, I did not want Mike Porter Jr. here. At all. He's no miss to me. I'm thankful GarPax didn't take him.
- He missed his entire rookie year.
- Didn't do anything anything worthy during his 2nd season due to recovery.
- Currently, he's showing me that he will never be a good defensive player AND he's a ball hog. He doesn't bother to facilitate or look for his teammates. He also missed 10 games this season. He'll miss more games.

Does he have a chance to become an All Star? Yes. Absolutely. Anyone, in the starting lineup regularly, has a shot to become one.

I wanted Mikal Bridges. He was my number one target. I was writing like crazy on this forum regarding him. That was the biggest miscue. Not Michael Porter Jr. Then GarPax passed on Shai-Gilgeous Alexander.

Personally, it wasn't the 2018 Draft that was the epicenter of GarPax's downfall. It was the Vinny Del Negro neck tie incident. After that incident, GarPax fell down the mountain. To add insult to injury, they traded the farm for Doug McDermott. I did not want McDermott. I thought the kid was a product of snake oil con men marketing him as if he was the next Larry Bird on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

I remember seeing that SI cover and laughed my ass off. Didn't think GarPax would fall for it. Holy sh*t.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#22 » by MGB8 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:19 pm

I didn't and don't mind passing on Michael Porter Jr.

The injury risk was real, and the position fit questionable. It wouldn't have been the worst gamble, but I get avoiding the "big swing" that had a high chance of missing.

But I don't really forgive the Wendell Carter Jr. drafting. I hated it at the time, and it frankly panned out worse than I expected.

I didn't want to spend a pick on a "non-dominant" center prospect. JJJ, I loved - explosive athleticism, a "proven" 3 in college, aggression on the court. I saw (pre-injury) McDyess (sp) or Amare (with a 3) in JJJ (though look at what injuries have done).

But in terms of where the Bulls were picking, I had 3 guys: SGA, who I was really high on (go look at the threads, I think I was the #1 guy bringing his name up) - as a Dunn *and* Lavine hedge; Mikal Bridges (who I thought had more upside than folks were giving him credit for, and the downside was high end 3&D wing); and (hopefully with a bit of a trade down), Miles Bridges (explosive athleticism - higher offensive floor and maybe ceiling than Mikal, but not near the same level defensive player).

Any of those 3 would have made much more sense to me than a somewhat undersized, non-explosive, center only prospect. Then when the shooting didn't translate and the volume rebounding barely did....

But they already had a promise to Hutchinson as their 2/3 to draft, and I guess weren't interested in bringing in another PG prospect to potentially compete with Dunn. Meanwhile, what a draft - not just Doncic and Young and even Sexton and Ayton (and JJJ when healthy), but the aforementioned SGA, Porter Jr., and Bridges boys, and tons of other guys looking like NBA players - Huerter, Mitch Robinson, Shake Milton, D'Anthony Melton, Devonte Graham, Gary Trent, DiVincenzo, Jalen Brunson, Aaron Holiday, Anfernee Simmons, Ham Diallo, Robert Williams, Lonnie Walker, Svi, Shamet, even Bruce Brown, Grayson Allen, Okogie... hopefully Troy Brown.

And guys like Musa, Bates Diop, Kurucs and Vanderbilt have looked like NBA players at times....
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#23 » by The Force. » Tue Apr 6, 2021 2:24 pm

Forget MPJ. Shai was the obvious pick at 7 IMO. He's the prototypical PG to pair with Zach and a GarPax player through and through. The fact that we passed on him for WCJ is a travesty. Hell, even Mikal Bridges would've been a better fit.

Everyone knows you don't take bigs that high unless they have superstar potential.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#24 » by chefo » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:28 pm

The Force. wrote:Forget MPJ. Shai was the obvious pick at 7 IMO. He's the prototypical PG to pair with Zach and a GarPax player through and through. The fact that we passed on him for WCJ is a travesty. Hell, even Mikal Bridges would've been a better fit.

Everyone knows you don't take bigs that high unless they have superstar potential.


Calipari is the bane of getting picked high unless you're such a can't miss talent that even he can't screw it up for you by playing you next to another 3 top 25 recruits. His teams are usually so stacked with talent, that when they don't play well, which happens more often than people think, everybody starts assuming that the players suck, only for them to start kicking butt at the next level.

My rule of thumb--pick Wildcats higher than you think they should go, especially if they're efficient scorers or playmakers, and pick Blue Devils lower because Coach K usually knows how to showcase his high-end talent. If coach K can't showcase you, you're probably headed for the NBA garbage-bin.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#25 » by Ice Man » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:44 pm

The Force. wrote:Forget MPJ. Shai was the obvious pick at 7 IMO. He's the prototypical PG to pair with Zach and a GarPax player through and through. The fact that we passed on him for WCJ is a travesty. Hell, even Mikal Bridges would've been a better fit.


As many know, and as I never tire of repeating, after the Butler trade GarPax were locked into the notion that they had nabbed their PG, SG, and PF for the future. In the 2018 draft they were only looking at SFs and centers. Yes they would have taken Luka, reluctantly, if he had come their way, but I doubt Trae. It was all about filling the two holes in the starting lineup, from their views.

That's how they drafted in the Oughts and it worked. Kirk at PG, Ben Gordon at SG, Deng at SF, Noah at center, then Rose as another PG (because they had to), Johnson at SF (broke their rule), Taj at PF, Jimmy at SG. So they kept thinking the same way. Only they were no longer any good at drafting.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#26 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:48 pm

I still think even if we won that draft lottery GarPax would have passed on Luka and picked Trey or JJJ

I also don;t understand how we passed on Bridges and Brunson (with the non lottery pick) when they were there for the taking. Paxson had Jalens dad on that 2003 team, Bulls players had been going to Stevenson to see him. They knew who this kid was, he wasn't a superstar but he was going to be a solid NBA pro and was an easy pick.

KC had us picking Bridges the night we won the lottery and he would have been a great choice.

Then again - the list of players who win titles with the team that drafted them is really, really small.

(and if i was GM and won that lottery I would have drafted Bagley - yes even over Luka)
I thought ther kid had great hands and footwork under the basket, he still does but Luka is special talent who was a boy playing among men for years. It should have been obvious he was going to be a great NBA player - but who watches euro ball? I still don't.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#27 » by 2018C3 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:40 pm

For me 2014 was the biggest blunder in recent years.

They traded 16 / 19, and a future second to move up just five spots to 11.

I did not like that move at all, but after it was made had some hope they knew what they were doing. It turns out they did not. It was a move I definitely would not have made myself if in charge.

I don't remember who was I was pulling for, but it wasn't Lavine. So I cant say I would have done any better.

I just thought at the time they gave too many assets up for one pick.


Pax started out good from 2003 until 2011, and then faded. In this time period he atleast got one guy in every other year the fans could get excited about. 2004 may have been Pax best year as a active GM.

2003 Hinrich
2004 Gordon / Duhon ....... + Deng Via Trade
2005
2006 Aldridge / turned into Tyrus
2007 Noah
2008 Derrick Rose
2009 Gibson / Johnson
2010
2011 Butler
2012
2013
2014
2015 Portis
2016
2017
2018
2019 White / Gafford
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#28 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:00 pm

really think 2017 is the bigger screwup, though it's not like any of these guys are busts. lauri, wendell and coby will all be nba players beyond their rookie deal. in 2017 we could've had mitchell (or adebayo, but i'm not a huge fan of his game). mitchell moves the needle way more than michael porter jr imo, mitchell/lavine would be amazing to watch even if they're a little redundant.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#29 » by drosestruts » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:03 pm

I'm wrong more often than not when it comes to the draft. I thought whoever drafted Giannis was a sucker (boy was I wrong). But I was recently looking at old tweets of mine and saw that in 2018 I was all aboard the Mikal Bridges bandwagon.

I just feel like every good team has a guy like Mikal Bridges. It wasn't some under-the-radar player I was only smart enough to see. Bridges was a good player at a winning program who contributed on both defense and offense and played the wing. The value of a player like that just seems so obvious, and also seems so much like a pick Pax likes to make that I'm still surprised sometimes that he's not a Bull.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#30 » by 2018C3 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:08 pm

Dumping Thibs in 2015, and Hiring Hoiberg was also a huge blunder. Sitting still in free agency, and coming back with the same roster to try and prove a point, was one of the worst moves in recent GM history.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#31 » by Dan Z » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:26 pm

The Box Office wrote:Disagree about the 2018 Draft and Michael Porter Jr.

Why are you guys still salty about this? It's 2021. There's nothing you can do to reverse time. It's done. It's all in the past. He has NOTHING to do with the "right now" for us.

For the record, I did not want Mike Porter Jr. here. At all. He's no miss to me. I'm thankful GarPax didn't take him.
- He missed his entire rookie year.
- Didn't do anything anything worthy during his 2nd season due to recovery.
- Currently, he's showing me that he will never be a good defensive player AND he's a ball hog. He doesn't bother to facilitate or look for his teammates. He also missed 10 games this season. He'll miss more games.

Does he have a chance to become an All Star? Yes. Absolutely. Anyone, in the starting lineup regularly, has a shot to become one.

I wanted Mikal Bridges. He was my number one target. I was writing like crazy on this forum regarding him. That was the biggest miscue. Not Michael Porter Jr. Then GarPax passed on Shai-Gilgeous Alexander.

Personally, it wasn't the 2018 Draft that was the epicenter of GarPax's downfall. It was the Vinny Del Negro neck tie incident. After that incident, GarPax fell down the mountain. To add insult to injury, they traded the farm for Doug McDermott. I did not want McDermott. I thought the kid was a product of snake oil con men marketing him as if he was the next Larry Bird on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

I remember seeing that SI cover and laughed my ass off. Didn't think GarPax would fall for it. Holy sh*t.


As Michael Jackson mentioned earlier in this thread: MPJ would've developed differently had the Bulls taken him and he was coached by Hoiberg or Boylen. Who knows what kind of player he'd be right now.

The biggest problem with 2018 is that the Bulls lost the coin toss with Sacramento and weren't able to get Doncic. However, if they got the #2 would they select him? Or go with Bagley (like some people suspect they'd do)?

I wanted Mikal Bridges that year too. I thought he'd solidify the SF position.

Also, if the Bulls picked Doncic are GarPax still here? Yikes!

I think the McDermott trade is a one reason why they traded Butler. It left the team with no young players who had any upside (unless you include Mirotic). My guess is that they felt that they wouldn't get a high pick with Butler on the team and needed to rebuild.

The other reason is that I don't think they wanted to pay Butler what he wanted. Both decisions were a mistake. In 2017 if they kept Butler they still could've drafted one of these players at #16: Jarrett Allen, John Collins, or OG Anunoby.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#32 » by Sinistar6 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:57 pm

Love the thread, some of the responses not so much...

Because they are gar/pax and we need to hold someone accountable for how poor the greatest franchise has become it is easy to fault them for things that may have not been their fault.

I do not think we can say “he would not have developed if he was drafted by the bulls”, and in the same thread talk about players that did develop under the gar/pax regime. Butler may have improved the most of anyone in history as a bull.

MPJ would have been a great bull because he is a great talent. I get it, he did not look good gimping on draft night. Denver had a team that could add questions along with talent because they were not on the hot seat. We added a “sure thing”, but IMO always swing for the fences!

That is the hardest thing to do in my opinion, keep trying for the home run when you have struck out the last 4 at bats. We need our GM’s to do that in all sports and especially basketball.
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Re: The Failure Of Our 2018 Draft 

Post#33 » by Axl Rose » Wed Apr 7, 2021 12:07 am

drosestruts wrote:I'm wrong more often than not when it comes to the draft. I thought whoever drafted Giannis was a sucker (boy was I wrong).


Same here but Giannis is one i got right and i like to brag about it :lol:

He had great size and athletic ability with point guard skills. He was a primo prospect.
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