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OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded

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OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#1 » by MGB8 » Sat Apr 3, 2021 7:53 pm

I have to marvel at what Masai has done with TO. Sure, they are having a rough season. But the Powell for Trent and Hood trade was a master stroke. Trent is younger with higher upside, if not the same immediate impact, while Hood has shown that he can be an excellent 3rd wing. They sold high, not just on Powell but also getting returns for their over-hyped but ultimately fringe backup wings (Thomas, etc.).

This is a team that, post Lowry, will just be missing a starting level C - one of the easier positions to fill - and a backup 1. They will have a lotto pick. Their “vets”, Siakam, VamVleet, OG, are 27, 27 and 23... and their will still be “room” to attract another star to a team that will be a near contender just on talent and fit.

I credit AK for boldness, but Masai really is on another level IMO.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#2 » by dougthonus » Sat Apr 3, 2021 8:50 pm

MGB8 wrote:I have to marvel at what Masai has done with TO. Sure, they are having a rough season. But the Powell for Trent and Hood trade was a master stroke. Trent is younger with higher upside, if not the same immediate impact, while Hood has shown that he can be an excellent 3rd wing. They sold high, not just on Powell but also getting returns for their over-hyped but ultimately fringe backup wings (Thomas, etc.).

This is a team that, post Lowry, will just be missing a starting level C - one of the easier positions to fill - and a backup 1. They will have a lotto pick. Their “vets”, Siakam, VamVleet, OG, are 27, 27 and 23... and their will still be “room” to attract another star to a team that will be a near contender just on talent and fit.

I credit AK for boldness, but Masai really is on another level IMO.


:dontknow:

Siakam, VanVleet, and OG isn't that exciting of a core. They're fine as a "non superstar" team like us or any other non superstar team, but like all non superstar teams, unless they attract a superstar, it won't matter much.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#3 » by MGB8 » Sat Apr 3, 2021 9:14 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MGB8 wrote:I have to marvel at what Masai has done with TO. Sure, they are having a rough season. But the Powell for Trent and Hood trade was a master stroke. Trent is younger with higher upside, if not the same immediate impact, while Hood has shown that he can be an excellent 3rd wing. They sold high, not just on Powell but also getting returns for their over-hyped but ultimately fringe backup wings (Thomas, etc.).

This is a team that, post Lowry, will just be missing a starting level C - one of the easier positions to fill - and a backup 1. They will have a lotto pick. Their “vets”, Siakam, VamVleet, OG, are 27, 27 and 23... and their will still be “room” to attract another star to a team that will be a near contender just on talent and fit.

I credit AK for boldness, but Masai really is on another level IMO.


:dontknow:

Siakam, VanVleet, and OG isn't that exciting of a core. They're fine as a "non superstar" team like us or any other non superstar team, but like all non superstar teams, unless they attract a superstar, it won't matter much.


Eh... I see that non-superstar team back to 50+ wins per year before any stars come. FVV, Siakam and OG are 2 way players. Trent can score and can develop on D. Hood when healthy is a good scorer and passable on D. Then add a lotto pick and something better than what they put out this year at the 5.... with a 4 to 6 year window...
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#4 » by Tetlak » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:35 pm

Weird post, considering they have been worse than us. They're already a team full of roleplayers - losing Lowry would exacerbate that fact.

Free agency is barren. They won't sign anyone, just like we won't sign anyone.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#5 » by DelAbbot » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:55 pm

Gary Trent Jr move was a good move but no raptor fan would call us "reloaded". Masai probably targetted GTJ with RFA offer sheet using 2021 cap space, and didn't want to pay Norm Powell who will be overpaid and makes too many boneheaded defensive miscues. I didn't know how to feel about this trade on deadline day, but after watching GTJ for a few games, it's obvious GTJ is almost as good as Norm right now, has a better 3ptr form, is 5 years younger and has higher offensive potential.

It was a good move, but a marginal one. We have exhausted many assets for our championship run 2019 and title defense season 2020, losing Kawhi, Green, Ibaka, Gasol and soon to be Lowry. We are left with Siakam, FVV, OG, and GTJ (likely to match any offer sheet), who are all high level role players. We have a glaring hole at Centre and need a high level offense creator / superstar type to get back to finals - lots of maneuvering to come - but every move has looked good under Masai's direction (with exception of not trading Lowry even for marginal return).

As a raptors fan, I can be hopeful, knowing our future is in Masai's hands (hoping he signs extension soon).
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#6 » by dougthonus » Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:23 pm

MGB8 wrote:Eh... I see that non-superstar team back to 50+ wins per year before any stars come. FVV, Siakam and OG are 2 way players. Trent can score and can develop on D. Hood when healthy is a good scorer and passable on D. Then add a lotto pick and something better than what they put out this year at the 5.... with a 4 to 6 year window...


Seems like a thread you should make after they win 50 games if you want to congratulate them rather than when they're on pace to win 32 in an 82 game season with the core you find to be so good.

I mean yeah, maybe it works out, but that's why I said, they're just a team right now.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#7 » by MGB8 » Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:35 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MGB8 wrote:Eh... I see that non-superstar team back to 50+ wins per year before any stars come. FVV, Siakam and OG are 2 way players. Trent can score and can develop on D. Hood when healthy is a good scorer and passable on D. Then add a lotto pick and something better than what they put out this year at the 5.... with a 4 to 6 year window...


Seems like a thread you should make after they win 50 games if you want to congratulate them rather than when they're on pace to win 32 in an 82 game season with the core you find to be so good.

I mean yeah, maybe it works out, but that's why I said, they're just a team right now.


There is no talent in congratulating what has already occurred. I’m calling it now :wink:
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#8 » by CobyWhite0 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 12:23 am

I fail to see how FVV and Siakam are "two-way players".

They're both 17-ish PER guys with .550-ish TS%. They're both 26 and in their 5th seasons, so not really a whole lot of upside there.

If "two-way players" means "guys who are good defenders and slightly above-average offensive players", then sure.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#9 » by dougthonus » Sun Apr 4, 2021 12:43 am

MGB8 wrote:There is no talent in congratulating what has already occurred. I’m calling it now :wink:


I suppose that is the difference between predicting and congratulating. If you want to predict they will be good, then obviously more power to you. I certainly don't think it's crazy or anything. At the same time, I see no reason to be more excited about them than the Atlanta Hawks or us or charlotte or whomever qualifies as just a team.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#10 » by youngRAPZ » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:39 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:I fail to see how FVV and Siakam are "two-way players".

They're both 17-ish PER guys with .550-ish TS%. They're both 26 and in their 5th seasons, so not really a whole lot of upside there.

If "two-way players" means "guys who are good defenders and slightly above-average offensive players", then sure.

Lol I know this isn’t the raptors board. And I respect your opinion if you don’t think siakam and VV are good. But what else would a two way player mean lol. You just admitted they both play defence and are above average on offence. Am I missing something?
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#11 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:47 pm

they're exactly where they should be after selling the farm to win a championship with a one year Kawhi rental. the masterful move was gambling on Kawhi, now they suck because their superstar left for nothing and they're left with some really good role players and a borderline all-star or two. the question is, how do they get back into championship contention with their current core?
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#12 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:02 pm

Ujuri is good but that is Kylke Lowrys team and he's likely a future HOF player. He's not packing it in and that team still has the essence of a championship season floating around. Lowry is a bulldog out there.

Vernon 'mad' Maxwell just did a great podcast with Raja Bell and they dissected Lowry. It's great listen-

https://www.theringer.com/2021/3/29/22357072/vernon-maxwell-on-defending-michael-jordan-trash-talking-larry-brown-much-more

but don't forget about FVV from Rockford.

His road to the NBA is about as hard as it gets. Everything he's doing now has to feel easy for him considering where he came from and how hard he worked to get here. He just sees the game differently and learning from Kawhi and hitting huge shots in HS, Wichita or the NBA Finals is everyday work to him. He's not a superstar, he's just a smart player who plays the game the right way.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#13 » by MGB8 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:23 pm

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:they're exactly where they should be after selling the farm to win a championship with a one year Kawhi rental. the masterful move was gambling on Kawhi, now they suck because their superstar left for nothing and they're left with some really good role players and a borderline all-star or two. the question is, how do they get back into championship contention with their current core?


I don't think it's going to be hard for them, at all. This year is, IMO, an aberration for them. Tons of health issues with their key players, playing away from "home," and the shots they took at solidifying the center spot failed.

But Siakam is one of the best 4s in the league - a significantly better (and also younger) version of Thad Young. OG is 23, a premier defender, and while his offensive development has been somewhat slow, it's also been steady - he may have higher upside than Siakam. FVV is an above average starting PG who is also a two way guy. And now they added Trent, who is kind of a poor man's Lavine. Hood is a nice 2/3 guy off the bench (though next season is not guaranteed), and Boucher a nice 4 of the bench. Flynn looks like an NBA level player, too - maybe not a starter but someone who can at least hang in the league.

Assuming that Lowry leaves (not a done deal but likely), they've got a lotto pick coming this year (assuming that they don't make the playoffs- not a safe assumption, btw). They own their own firsts through the next 7 years, plus a couple of extra 2nd rounders. If they don't bring back Lowry and shed Baynes, Hood, Bembry and someone named Paul Watson, then prior to re-signing Trent (not sure what his caphold would be), they'd only have $75 M in salaries and could sign someone (or swing a big trade - maybe the Clippers want to move on from Paul George and re-coup assets, yada yada).

But even if they just keep the same team intact, plus lotto pick, plus a better player at the 5 via FA... plus being at home again and not likely being as snakebit... They're right back to the place that they were before the trade for Kawhi - maybe better.
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Re: OT: Ujiri and TO, reloaded 

Post#14 » by Mk0 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:36 pm

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:they're exactly where they should be after selling the farm to win a championship with a one year Kawhi rental. the masterful move was gambling on Kawhi, now they suck because their superstar left for nothing and they're left with some really good role players and a borderline all-star or two. the question is, how do they get back into championship contention with their current core?

There was a contingent of Raps fans who thought Giannis was going to sign there. Not sure what Ujiri's plan B is.

All those young guys they developed are either getting paid or have to be traded away before their big extension. I don't know their financial situation but I thought they had to sign a FA last year or their money would be tied up in their current core's extensions.

I assumed they traded Powell since he was going to decline his 11mil and try to get 20 in the FA market, but that may have been to stay flexible with any potential FAs.

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