Arci > Coby

[DuckIII]

BD needs to at least try to start running Arci out as the first point guard off the bench behind Sato. White is an absolute disaster as a point guard on both ends of the court. It doesn’t matter if it’s as a starter or a reserve. He. Can’t. Do. It.

And given the FO’s refusal to address this gaping hole in the offseason and again at the trade deadline, Arci is the only guy left to try. And with moving both White and Lauri to the bench, it’s certainly plausible that both could benefit from playing with Arci as the lead guard. A steady set up man who can hit an open shot and defend. How does BD watch what Young was doing to White last night (as an example, not a complete evidence set) and not try Arci on him?

We need more defense at the 1. We need better ball control at the 1 off the bench. We need better distribution off the bench. I’m not saying I think Arci long term is a better player for the Bulls. I still believe in White’s value as a scoring guard off the bench. But he’s killing us as a point guard in any capacity. He’s awful at it. It’s time to try something else.

[drosestruts]

I think there are similar situations happening all over the roster. There are definitely some entitlement/development minutes being given to players like White, Lauri, and Williams who quite frankly, may not be deserving of them. If the team were healthy, and the goals were simply to win, I'm not sure this isn't our depth chart:


Satoransky/Archi/White
LaVine/Valentine/Green
Temple/Williams/Brown
Young/Aminu/Lauri
Vuc/Theis/Felicio

[DuckIII]

I think there are similar situations happening all over the roster. There are definitely some entitlement/development minutes being given to players like White, Lauri, and Williams who quite frankly, may not be deserving of them. If the team were healthy, and the goals were simply to win, I'm not sure this isn't our depth chart:


Satoransky/Archi/White
LaVine/Valentine/Green
Temple/Williams/Brown
Young/Aminu/Lauri
Vuc/Theis/Felicio

There’s nothing wrong with developing guys. I’m a firm believer that most teams should be operating on “now and later” levels at the same time. Including us. But there’s a difference between developing guys who might not currently be your “best”’option on the floor vs. continuing to bludgeon your head against the wall with a guy who is an absolute train wreck at a position he’s clearly not suited to play.

[GoBlue72391]

Once Temple comes back the bench should be

Temple
Coby (strictly as a SG, no PG)
TBJ
Lauri
Theis

[Ice Man]

Yep. Arch is a better PG backup than Coby right now (and maybe always). Coby could be slotted in to spell LaVine, or perhaps inserted next to LaVine if Zach is to be the primary ballhandler, but Coby should not be used as a replacement point guard, absent an emergency.

[DuckIII]

Once Temple comes back the bench should be

Temple
Coby (strictly as a SG, no PG)
TBJ
Lauri
Theis

If you run out that lineup, Coby White will be the de facto point guard.

[GoBlue72391]

Once Temple comes back the bench should be

Temple
Coby (strictly as a SG, no PG)
TBJ
Lauri
Theis

If you run out that lineup, Coby White will be the de facto point guard.

Temple can play point and has done so in the past. It's just a matter of Billy telling Coby he wants him to play strictly offball.

[ArtMorte]

I agree, Arci at least does point-guard basics right.

If their ages were swapped around, I bet Arci would be getting Coby's minutes and vice versa, in the name of development.

[MGB8]

BD needs to at least try to start running Arci out as the first point guard off the bench behind Sato. White is an absolute disaster as a point guard on both ends of the court. It doesn’t matter if it’s as a starter or a reserve. He. Can’t. Do. It.

And given the FO’s refusal to address this gaping hole in the offseason and again at the trade deadline, Arci is the only guy left to try. And with moving both White and Lauri to the bench, it’s certainly plausible that both could benefit from playing with Arci as the lead guard. A steady set up man who can hit an open shot and defend. How does BD watch what Young was doing to White last night (as an example, not a complete evidence set) and not try Arci on him?

We need more defense at the 1. We need better ball control at the 1 off the bench. We need better distribution off the bench. I’m not saying I think Arci long term is a better player for the Bulls. I still believe in White’s value as a scoring guard off the bench. But he’s killing us as a point guard in any capacity. He’s awful at it. It’s time to try something else.

Beyond that, look at how TJ McConnell has developed over time. Maybe its time to think of Archi as a similar longer term investment - or at least evaluate whether he could be.

[Almost Retired]

I agree, Arci at least does point-guard basics right.

If their ages were swapped around, I bet Arci would be getting Coby's minutes and vice versa, in the name of development.

Arci gets the most out of his talent as anyone on the roster. If he gets enough minutes to at least break a sweat he's usually adequate. At least he isn't a turnover machine. Coby just kills us with silly turnovers. I hope AK can trade Coby, for his sake as much as ours. He needs to be a SG. If we keep him it should only be to play behind Zach. Ideally he should be paired with a taller PG who can play perimeter defense. But my preference would be to trade him for draft assets and let another team develop him if they can.

[chefo]

Archi is not a better player than Coby... and you all know what my opinion of Coby is. Archi is not an NBA-level talent. Not a knock on him. Apart from 300 odd players in the world, nobody else is. He's the most fundamentally sound guard we have, but that's like being the tallest midget. He's small but not quick enough to be a PG. He can't shoot unless wiiiide open because his release is low AND slow. He doesn't have deep range. He's not a good enough ball handler to get by people, or break down a D. He hustles his posterior off, but he's still not a good defender because he's just so physically overmatched.

He's great example to show your tell kids that if you work hard and never give up, and... but that's as far as the story goes.

He was a decent G-league, 15-PER guard on a bad G-league team, who scored like 13 ppg in 40 mpg, if you guys remember. I don't think he'll be getting anything more than the vet min going forward, and that's even if he manages to stick around, which is not a given.

As bad as Coby currently is, he's bigger, faster and quicker. Odds are, when he hits 25 years old, he'll be vastly better player than Archi.

[ChettheJet]

Maybe some of you people know a lot about soccer or table tennis, you're lost around here

[DuckIII]

Archi is not a better player than Coby... and you all know what my opinion of Coby is. Archi is not an NBA-level talent. Not a knock on him. Apart from 300 odd players in the world, nobody else is. He's the most fundamentally sound guard we have, but that's like being the tallest midget. He's small but not quick enough to be a PG. He can't shoot unless wiiiide open because his release is low AND slow. He doesn't have deep range. He's not a good enough ball handler to get by people, or break down a D. He hustles his posterior off, but he's still not a good defender because he's just so physically overmatched.

He's great example to show your tell kids that if you work hard and never give up, and... but that's as far as the story goes.

He was a decent G-league, 15-PER guard on a bad G-league team, who scored like 13 ppg in 40 mpg, if you guys remember. I don't think he'll be getting anything more than the vet min going forward, and that's even if he manages to stick around, which is not a given.

As bad as Coby currently is, he's bigger, faster and quicker. Odds are, when he hits 25 years old, he'll be vastly better player than Archi.

I agree with 95% of that. But I don’t see it being relevant to the current issue.

[DuckIII]

Maybe some of you people know a lot about soccer or table tennis, you're lost around here

Its hard to rebut this argument.

[dougthonus]

There’s nothing wrong with developing guys. I’m a firm believer that most teams should be operating on “now and later” levels at the same time. Including us. But there’s a difference between developing guys who might not currently be your “best”’option on the floor vs. continuing to bludgeon your head against the wall with a guy who is an absolute train wreck at a position he’s clearly not suited to play.

Coby's still pretty young and has played 100 total games. I don't think I'm at "bludgeoning your head against the wall" time with him yet. I'm not a believer, but Arci isn't likely to be better and certainly has no upside.

[DuckIII]

There’s nothing wrong with developing guys. I’m a firm believer that most teams should be operating on “now and later” levels at the same time. Including us. But there’s a difference between developing guys who might not currently be your “best”’option on the floor vs. continuing to bludgeon your head against the wall with a guy who is an absolute train wreck at a position he’s clearly not suited to play.

Coby's still pretty young and has played 100 total games. I don't think I'm at "bludgeoning your head against the wall" time with him yet. I'm not a believer, but Arci isn't likely to be better and certainly has no upside.

Distilling it, here’s what I’m saying and not saying:

1. Saying: Coby has been a complete failure as a point guard this season despite being given a huge opportunity.

2. Saying: His particular weaknesses also happen to align with critical team-based issues.

3. Saying: Just try something different with his bench role for a few games to see if it helps. Move him strictly to shooting guard and make Arci the bench point guard.

4. Not saying: close the book on Coby.

5. Not saying: Arci is a better long term prospect than Coby.

Not only is Coby suffering from playing point guard, so is the team. It’s time for this experiment to cease for this season.

[TSS]

I would be siding with Duck here. Short term Arci would be the better option. Coby is actively hurting the team on both ends of the floor if he is forced to play PG.

[DuckIII]

I would be siding with Duck here. Short term Arci would be the better option. Coby is actively hurting the team on both ends of the floor if he is forced to play PG.

I don’t see a supportable counter-argument really. Does anyone actually disagree with that assessment?

I fully supported AK/BD trying it, despite my belief it would not work. I even advocated, early in the season and thereafter, that it be permitted to continue to the trade deadline so as to get an adequate sample size.

But it’s not working. And it’s hurting Coby too.

[TheStig]

Starting to really wish we threw Coby and a 1st at NO for Ball......

[Leslie Forman]

I still don't understand how Devon Dotson has played a grand total of 15 minutes.

Is he really that awful in practice? Is Billy being forced to keep giving Coby minutes so his already terrible trade value doesn't go down even more by summer? Does Billy play favorites and just put guys in the doghouse for personal reasons?

I don't get it.