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Daniel Theis Needs To Start

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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#21 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:02 am

Vuch and Thad are such an awkward, ill fitting pairing. It was obvious from their first game starting together. Sending Thad back to the bench makes a lot more sense. I don't really care who we start at PF next to Vuch as long as it's not Thad.

A change also needs to be made at SF, but that's a topic for another discussion.

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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#22 » by Clocian » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:23 am

I've been saying this since the beginning but people kept insisting thad to start. It just makes too much sense. Theis covers for Vuc, and also plays well with Zach as mentioned, and thad gets his minutes cut down while also directing the bench, which would also theoretically help Lauri since he's no good unless he's fed constantly apparently.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#23 » by Wingy » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:46 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
Yeah well, maybe there was something in the water in Boston that made him shoot 34.7%. But in Chicago, he's at 22%. On the same volume, and mostly wide open.

Neither of these guys can spread the floor in a meaningful way.


It's a small sample size in Chicago after a trade, so I don't think those shooting percentages matter yet. I'm not claiming that he's Larry Bird out there, but I do think that he brings a dyanmic to the position that Thad doesn't. But if you disagree, that's fine. His shooting isn't the main reason to make a lineup change.


Theis was a 34.5% 3-point shooter in 236 career NBA games when he was traded to Chicago. Who the hell cares if he's only 4/18 in career games 237 thru 244. It seems quite ridiculous to even bring it up, but maybe that's just me?

But like you said, he wouldn't be starting because he's the 2nd coming of Larry Legend from behind the arc. His defense, shot-blocking and energy are why BD would make the move.


Yeah well, with the Bulls, Theis is the 2nd greatest 2pt FG% shooter in the history of the NBA for a single season. Tied with Wilt.

He’s doing that being a useful outlet to hit the 15-18 footer...and not just taking layups, dunks, and 4-foot bunnies (like Thad).
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#24 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:18 am

TeamMan wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:It has been mentioned by multiple people in various threads, but to me it's abundantly clear that Daniel Theis needs to start and have a bigger role on this team. The reasonings are as such:

1.) He's the best rim protector on defense and can cover up Vuc's mobility issues on rotations.

2.) He's a better shooter than Thad, and thus provides more spacing.

3.) The chemistry between he and Zach is pretty clear, so it benefits them both to be on the court together as much as possible.

4.) He's arguably the only energy player on the roster, theoretically gets us off to better starts.

5.) Bringing Thad off the bench allows us to go back to using him as an offensive hub, and lessens our backup PG issues since he can help create offense.


Funnily enough, both Thad and Theis are averaging 22% from the perimeter. They both suck balls.

For his career, Theis is slightly "better" at 34%... but most teams don't consider him any kind of threat. That's why he's getting all these wide open shots he keeps bricking.

P-Will is shooting 38% on 3Ps.

So, actually it is the best argument to keep him in the starting lineup.

Maybe BD should add some plays that get P-Will more 3P shots.

Maybe P Will should....shoot the ball once in a while. more than twice every three games at the very least.
P Will starting is such an entitlement thing, that **** really cannot be a good thing for a 19-year-old rookie. a teenager is immediately catapulted into the 1% of earners because people hope he'll be good at a ball game one day...he's definitely not good enough to be a starter in the league and that's probably a lesson worth learning, that he may be the **** relative to 99.9999% of his peers, but he ain't **** in the NBA and needs to be humbled (not to say P Will is arrogant or a bad dude, these are just the circumstances. he's done nothing to earn the starting spot except to be drafted high. it was the same thing with lauri and coby, BD eventually adjusted, what's the excuse with williams?).
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#25 » by Stratmaster » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:02 am

kodo wrote:I don't think it matters much how you shuffle the chairs. The Bulls are who the Bulls are. Theis got plenty of minutes last game, 27 minutes vs Thad's 19 and Lauri's 16.

The biggest problem is that Theis was considered an expendable roleplayer cut by a 7th seeded EC team, and he's probably the Bull's 3rd or 4th best player.

I believe Vuc & Theis were only the start of the total roster overhaul by AK, not the end of it.


There are a lot of people in Boston scratching their heads about why Boston gave up Theis. I don't agree with your characterization of what he was considered. I believe they had to unload Theis to absorb Fournier salary and stay under the luxury tax. There was talk that it could take 15 or even 18 mil to re-sign Theis, which would have also kept them over the luxury tax a 2nd season. So, in essence, they didn't trade Theis just for Mo and Kornet. It also allowed them to get Fournier.

I am not advocating more minutes for Theis. He simply needs to be played at the right time, which for his skills is with the Bulls starting lineup which struggles with interior, exterior, anterior, posterior and interplanetary defense.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#26 » by HomoSapien » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:46 am

Stratmaster wrote:
kodo wrote:I don't think it matters much how you shuffle the chairs. The Bulls are who the Bulls are. Theis got plenty of minutes last game, 27 minutes vs Thad's 19 and Lauri's 16.

The biggest problem is that Theis was considered an expendable roleplayer cut by a 7th seeded EC team, and he's probably the Bull's 3rd or 4th best player.

I believe Vuc & Theis were only the start of the total roster overhaul by AK, not the end of it.


There are a lot of people in Boston scratching their heads about why Boston gave up Theis. I don't agree with your characterization of what he was considered. I believe they had to unload Theis to absorb Fournier salary and stay under the luxury tax. There was talk that it could take 15 or even 18 mil to re-sign Theis, which would have also kept them over the luxury tax a 2nd season. So, in essence, they didn't trade Theis just for Mo and Kornet. It also allowed them to get Fournier.

I am not advocating more minutes for Theis. He simply needs to be played at the right time, which for his skills is with the Bulls starting lineup which struggles with interior, exterior, anterior, posterior and interplanetary defense.


Agreed. Besides, if Theis is our 3 or 4th best player (and he's certainly playing like it right now) we don't really have the luxury to bring him off the bench. He works better with Vuc, Zac, and Sato and Thad in particular works better with Lauri and Coby.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#27 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:58 am

HomoSapien wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
kodo wrote:I don't think it matters much how you shuffle the chairs. The Bulls are who the Bulls are. Theis got plenty of minutes last game, 27 minutes vs Thad's 19 and Lauri's 16.

The biggest problem is that Theis was considered an expendable roleplayer cut by a 7th seeded EC team, and he's probably the Bull's 3rd or 4th best player.

I believe Vuc & Theis were only the start of the total roster overhaul by AK, not the end of it.


There are a lot of people in Boston scratching their heads about why Boston gave up Theis. I don't agree with your characterization of what he was considered. I believe they had to unload Theis to absorb Fournier salary and stay under the luxury tax. There was talk that it could take 15 or even 18 mil to re-sign Theis, which would have also kept them over the luxury tax a 2nd season. So, in essence, they didn't trade Theis just for Mo and Kornet. It also allowed them to get Fournier.

I am not advocating more minutes for Theis. He simply needs to be played at the right time, which for his skills is with the Bulls starting lineup which struggles with interior, exterior, anterior, posterior and interplanetary defense.


Agreed. Besides, if Theis is our 3 or 4th best player (and he's certainly playing like it right now) we don't really have the luxury to bring him off the bench. He works better with Vuc, Zac, and Sato and Thad in particular works better with Lauri and Coby.


Luxury?

We have one one of the worst players on the team (Pat) in the starting lineup right now, while an 18ppg scorer (Lauri) barely gets playing time.

I really doubt Donovan is thinking in terms of who's a "luxury" and whatnot.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#28 » by HomoSapien » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:02 am

ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
There are a lot of people in Boston scratching their heads about why Boston gave up Theis. I don't agree with your characterization of what he was considered. I believe they had to unload Theis to absorb Fournier salary and stay under the luxury tax. There was talk that it could take 15 or even 18 mil to re-sign Theis, which would have also kept them over the luxury tax a 2nd season. So, in essence, they didn't trade Theis just for Mo and Kornet. It also allowed them to get Fournier.

I am not advocating more minutes for Theis. He simply needs to be played at the right time, which for his skills is with the Bulls starting lineup which struggles with interior, exterior, anterior, posterior and interplanetary defense.


Agreed. Besides, if Theis is our 3 or 4th best player (and he's certainly playing like it right now) we don't really have the luxury to bring him off the bench. He works better with Vuc, Zac, and Sato and Thad in particular works better with Lauri and Coby.


Luxury?

We have one one of the worst players on the team (Pat) in the starting lineup right now, while an 18ppg scorer (Lauri) barely gets playing time.

I really doubt Donovan is thinking in terms of who's a "luxury" and whatnot.


I'm not sure what Pat Williams has to do with whether or not Theis should start over Thad.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#29 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:03 am

Wingy wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
It's a small sample size in Chicago after a trade, so I don't think those shooting percentages matter yet. I'm not claiming that he's Larry Bird out there, but I do think that he brings a dyanmic to the position that Thad doesn't. But if you disagree, that's fine. His shooting isn't the main reason to make a lineup change.


Theis was a 34.5% 3-point shooter in 236 career NBA games when he was traded to Chicago. Who the hell cares if he's only 4/18 in career games 237 thru 244. It seems quite ridiculous to even bring it up, but maybe that's just me?

But like you said, he wouldn't be starting because he's the 2nd coming of Larry Legend from behind the arc. His defense, shot-blocking and energy are why BD would make the move.


Yeah well, with the Bulls, Theis is the 2nd greatest 2pt FG% shooter in the history of the NBA for a single season. Tied with Wilt.

He’s doing that being a useful outlet to hit the 15-18 footer...and not just taking layups, dunks, and 4-foot bunnies (like Thad).


I wasn't thinking that far in this case - just reacting to the suggestion that Theis is somehow a floor spreader.

I like Theis. He knows how to play, plays hard, and isn't afraid to shoot. But he's a C through and through. I know it's tempting to see him as a PF since he's undersized at the 5, but he lacks all perimeter skills.

IMO he's a better pick and roll player than Vucevic, and it's not even close.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#30 » by Cabbage bulls » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:11 am

ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
There are a lot of people in Boston scratching their heads about why Boston gave up Theis. I don't agree with your characterization of what he was considered. I believe they had to unload Theis to absorb Fournier salary and stay under the luxury tax. There was talk that it could take 15 or even 18 mil to re-sign Theis, which would have also kept them over the luxury tax a 2nd season. So, in essence, they didn't trade Theis just for Mo and Kornet. It also allowed them to get Fournier.

I am not advocating more minutes for Theis. He simply needs to be played at the right time, which for his skills is with the Bulls starting lineup which struggles with interior, exterior, anterior, posterior and interplanetary defense.


Agreed. Besides, if Theis is our 3 or 4th best player (and he's certainly playing like it right now) we don't really have the luxury to bring him off the bench. He works better with Vuc, Zac, and Sato and Thad in particular works better with Lauri and Coby.


Luxury?

We have one one of the worst players on the team (Pat) in the starting lineup right now, while an 18ppg scorer (Lauri) barely gets playing time.

I really doubt Donovan is thinking in terms of who's a "luxury" and whatnot.

Is "Lauri good" your schtick?
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#31 » by madvillian » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:28 am

Cabbage bulls wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Agreed. Besides, if Theis is our 3 or 4th best player (and he's certainly playing like it right now) we don't really have the luxury to bring him off the bench. He works better with Vuc, Zac, and Sato and Thad in particular works better with Lauri and Coby.


Luxury?

We have one one of the worst players on the team (Pat) in the starting lineup right now, while an 18ppg scorer (Lauri) barely gets playing time.

I really doubt Donovan is thinking in terms of who's a "luxury" and whatnot.

Is "Lauri good" your schtick?


I think it's more LauriCentric. Lauri is the center of his Bulls universe.

That said, obvious move to to bring Lauri back into the starting lineup. Thad is running out of pixie dust and is a bad fit next to Vuc.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#32 » by Red8911 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:28 am

I agree Theis should be starting especially after these loses. Thadgic could also easily fit off the bench and play the role that he had before. This move must be made.

Also doesn’t anyone think Aminu should be in the rotation ? Donovan hasn’t played him since that first time but I really think he can help. Provides defense,size,toughness, experience, and could also score. Maybe Donovan has seen him more in practice and doesn’t like him or simply there’s no room for him right now playing Theis/Lauri/Brown off the bench but I still think Aminu should make the rotation.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#33 » by Neonblazer » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:32 am

madvillian wrote:
Cabbage bulls wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
Luxury?

We have one one of the worst players on the team (Pat) in the starting lineup right now, while an 18ppg scorer (Lauri) barely gets playing time.

I really doubt Donovan is thinking in terms of who's a "luxury" and whatnot.

Is "Lauri good" your schtick?


I think it's more LauriCentric. Lauri is the center of his Bulls universe.

That said, obvious move to to bring Lauri back into the starting lineup. Thad is running out of pixie dust and is a bad fit next to Vuc.

Lets be honest, Bulls dont have a good fit next to Vuc. Dude is a black hole on defense. He didn't even try to box out Valanciunas last game.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#34 » by madvillian » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:38 am

Neonblazer wrote:
madvillian wrote:
Cabbage bulls wrote:Is "Lauri good" your schtick?


I think it's more LauriCentric. Lauri is the center of his Bulls universe.

That said, obvious move to to bring Lauri back into the starting lineup. Thad is running out of pixie dust and is a bad fit next to Vuc.

Lets be honest, Bulls dont have a good fit next to Vuc. Dude is a black hole on defense. He didn't even try to box out Valanciunas last game.


I don't know what the answer is to this club's troubles. I've given up trying to make sense of it. I read the long detailed posts of many here and while I appreciate them I still just shake my head. This club has issues that perhaps permeate much deeper than just the roster or even coaching staff. The stink of losing seems to emanate from ownership itself.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#35 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:15 am

HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Agreed. Besides, if Theis is our 3 or 4th best player (and he's certainly playing like it right now) we don't really have the luxury to bring him off the bench. He works better with Vuc, Zac, and Sato and Thad in particular works better with Lauri and Coby.


Luxury?

We have one one of the worst players on the team (Pat) in the starting lineup right now, while an 18ppg scorer (Lauri) barely gets playing time.

I really doubt Donovan is thinking in terms of who's a "luxury" and whatnot.


I'm not sure what Pat Williams has to do with whether or not Theis should start over Thad.


Just the fact that there is no logic at all to any of Donovan's lineup decisions right now. Trying to decide who's too much of a "luxury" to play off the bench sounds like the kind of fine tuning that belongs to a team where these things make at least some sense.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#36 » by qianlong » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:11 am

Don't know if starting the is is the solution but that needs to go to the bench. He doesn't fit Vuc on offense or defense and they don't have chemistry. Plus Thad is gassed. He was in a good position performing really well and we had to change the line up.
Thad and Lauri are used to play together and fit better. Start Theis or Paw and have Vuc be the hub in the starting line up.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#37 » by Pentele » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:48 am

If the objective really is to win, and not evaluate players' fit to schemes or their mutual chemistry for the next season, Thad should certainly start from the bench. Everyone can see how gassed he has been especially late in the recent games, but I think his overall productivity has dropped quite a bit as well. With the current stagnated offense it is simply not worth it.

In the current situation, I would probably start Theis instead of Lauri. I think Lauri is quite comfortable playing with Thad, and unlocking Lauri's potential even partially is sorely needed with the current offensive woes. Lauri has played a bit better defense lately but Theis is clearly superior defensive player, and that is also needed in the starting lineup. That being said, it all comes down to rotations. In recent games, the most effective lineup combination has been, I believe, Coby, Brown, Theis, Lauri, and Zach. There are probably many different reasons why that has been the case, but the point is that any change in the starters also affects the bench performance, and may thus end up being "changing chairs on the deck of Titanic" like doug said. Still, as I see it, moving Theis to the starting lineup has at least a potential to solve a number of problems, both on the starter side and the bench side. Perhaps it creates some additional problems, but surely the move is worth trying out. At least if the objective really is to win.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#38 » by sco » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:00 pm

I think those of you who talk about simple analogies like the Titanic deck chairs are wrong here. I think that we have enough talent to win a majority of games now, and that line-ups that better balance offense and defense as well as limit turn-overs is the way we get there.

The way I see it, our starting unit is getting killed by lane-penetration and a lack of rim protection. Starting Theis definitely helps here. I would double-down and replace Sato with Brown, and let Zach play PG (which he does a lot anyways), and give PWill more responsibility (maybe it will get him going).

Sato and Thad were a big part of our limited success as a passing/scoring tandem. When Vuc came, their shot opportunities went way down. By returning to the bench unit, they can contribute more. I think it will have the added benefit of relegating Coby to SG and maybe get Lauri more shots.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#39 » by MGB8 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:41 pm

sco wrote:I think those of you who talk about simple analogies like the Titanic deck chairs are wrong here. I think that we have enough talent to win a majority of games now, and that line-ups that better balance offense and defense as well as limit turn-overs is the way we get there.

The way I see it, our starting unit is getting killed by lane-penetration and a lack of rim protection. Starting Theis definitely helps here. I would double-down and replace Sato with Brown, and let Zach play PG (which he does a lot anyways), and give PWill more responsibility (maybe it will get him going).

Sato and Thad were a big part of our limited success as a passing/scoring tandem. When Vuc came, their shot opportunities went way down. By returning to the bench unit, they can contribute more. I think it will have the added benefit of relegating Coby to SG and maybe get Lauri more shots.


I like the line of thinking. I'm not sure that you replace Sato with Brown - or with Javonte Green or even Arch... or you replace Pat with Brown or Temple... but I do think you tinker a bit.

But honestly, I think tired legs had a lot to do with the last two losses, which were both blown leads. The easiest fix, IMO, in addition to starting Theis, would be going much deeper into the bench during this compressed portion of the schedule. I'd be running 123 deep during the stretch - along the lines of the below (but not as strict):

1: Sato (24), Arch/J.Green/Temple/Tr.Brown (24 combined)
2: Lavine (30-32), Coby/Val (16-18 combined)
3: Pat (22), T.Brown/Temple/Val (26 combined)
4: Theis (24), Lauri/Aminu combined (24)
5: Vuc (30), Thad (18)

The biggest issue with the roster right now - something potentially fixable via a FA (a la Waiters or Trier, etc., but that's yet another roster change) is that if Coby isn't playing well, then outside of Val on his very good days, you really don't have a high scoring guard/wing on the roster beyond Zach...
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#40 » by Michael Jackson » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:53 pm

Wha is funny is that across the board on national media the Bulls killed the trade deadline... somehow though the reality is that the team is now worse. While I was anti Jimbo so Billy was welcome just because he wasn’t him, Billy has not done anything that makes me happy so far. I trust AK as far as I could because he was making decisions something GarPax didn’t do... but if the Donovan trend continues without any logic, I lose a lot of faith in AK.

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