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Daniel Theis Needs To Start

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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#41 » by samwana » Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:06 pm

cool007 wrote:IMO, Theis and Brown Jr both needs to start in place for Thad and PWill.

I want Sato on the bench too the way he has been sucking so badly but we just have no choice.

Thad coming off the bench, the offense should go throgh him and PWill and Lauri should be cutting and Coby and Valentine should be spotting up for 3s.

We all see it but the coach isn't is what making me furious. Losing faith in Billy fast.
You speak my mind cool007 that's obvious if you watch the team play.

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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#42 » by ChettheJet » Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:04 pm

I skipped looking at this for the first few pages because it's too reactionary. I have trouble with people who make snap decisions based on stats from a handful of games.

Here's what I'd like to try. Aminu played only a few minutes when he first showed up so I guess he's not injured. I would start him next to Williams and just let him do the rebounding, defense grunt work for maybe the first 5 minutes of the 1sts and third quarters. At the same time let PW get involved in the offense and see if he can start to get used to playing with Vucevic and Lavine can learn where the kid is comfortable in the offense. Those three are going to be here for a while.

Then at that 5 minute mark bring in Thad or Lauri off the bench at the PF and later mix in Theis, White and Brown so they don't have 5 bench guys on the floor for extended periods, keep a mix of 2-4 starters with 1-3 bench guys and by the middle of the second quarter you can see who has got it going that night and should play more and who can take a back seat. That would likely change game to game but you would reward the guys who are doing well and have the guys who aren't getting it done sit and watch.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#43 » by zaymon » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:44 pm

ChettheJet wrote:I skipped looking at this for the first few pages because it's too reactionary. I have trouble with people who make snap decisions based on stats from a handful of games.

Here's what I'd like to try. Aminu played only a few minutes when he first showed up so I guess he's not injured. I would start him next to Williams and just let him do the rebounding, defense grunt work for maybe the first 5 minutes of the 1sts and third quarters. At the same time let PW get involved in the offense and see if he can start to get used to playing with Vucevic and Lavine can learn where the kid is comfortable in the offense. Those three are going to be here for a while.

Then at that 5 minute mark bring in Thad or Lauri off the bench at the PF and later mix in Theis, White and Brown so they don't have 5 bench guys on the floor for extended periods, keep a mix of 2-4 starters with 1-3 bench guys and by the middle of the second quarter you can see who has got it going that night and should play more and who can take a back seat. That would likely change game to game but you would reward the guys who are doing well and have the guys who aren't getting it done sit and watch.

I am not really familiar with Bulls players, but doesnt starting Aminu make a lot of sense ? Is he injured ? You need athletic defenders who can help at the rim next to Vucevic and Aminu is just that, he can even space the floor a little and is used to playing/practicing with Vucevic.
Maybe Donovan doesnt want to hurt someones feelings and cut him from rotation, but at this point its dumb.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#44 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:29 pm

It's funny because offensively the best fit next to Vuch is Lauri and defensively the best fit next to him is Theis. So what do we do? Start Thad, the guy who's the worst fit next to him.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#45 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:09 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:It's funny because offensively the best fit next to Vuch is Lauri and defensively the best fit next to him is Theis. So what do we do? Start Thad, the guy who's the worst fit next to him.


Exactly.

The decision not to give Lauri and Vuc any time to establish a chemistry before marginalizing Markkanen is one of the biggest clues that this is not about winning.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#46 » by HomoSapien » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:22 pm

ZOMG wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:It's funny because offensively the best fit next to Vuch is Lauri and defensively the best fit next to him is Theis. So what do we do? Start Thad, the guy who's the worst fit next to him.


Exactly.

The decision not to give Lauri and Vuc any time to establish a chemistry before marginalizing Markkanen is one of the biggest clues that this is not about winning.


I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#47 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:32 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:It's funny because offensively the best fit next to Vuch is Lauri and defensively the best fit next to him is Theis. So what do we do? Start Thad, the guy who's the worst fit next to him.


Exactly.

The decision not to give Lauri and Vuc any time to establish a chemistry before marginalizing Markkanen is one of the biggest clues that this is not about winning.


I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.

His future with the team is irrelevant if we're really all in on the playoffs. Playing him 15 minutes and getting him 3-5 shots doesn't help the team, it hurts it.

Either cut him out of the rotation entirely so those 15 minutes can go to other players who are better suited to fill that role or play him more in the 25 minute range and involve him in the offense so he can actually help the team with his scoring and shooting.

What we're doing right now just doesn't make sense given that our goal is the playoffs. That doesn't just apply to Lauri either, the minutes and utilization of Coby, PWill, and to a lesser extent Thad are illogical from that standpoint as well.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#48 » by HomoSapien » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:35 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
Exactly.

The decision not to give Lauri and Vuc any time to establish a chemistry before marginalizing Markkanen is one of the biggest clues that this is not about winning.


I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.

His future with the team is irrelevant if we're really all in on the playoffs. Playing him 15 minutes and getting him 3-5 shots doesn't help the team, it hurts it.

Either cut him out of the rotation entirely so those 15 minutes can go to other players who are better suited to fill that role or play him more in the 25 minute range and involve him in the offense so he can actually help the team with his scoring and shooting.

What we're doing right now just doesn't make sense given that our goal is the playoffs. That doesn't just apply to Lauri either, the minutes and utilization of Coby, PWill, and to a lesser extent Thad are illogical from that standpoint as well.


My guess is that our coaching staff is grappling with several issues:

1. They don't think Lauri playing 30MPG actually helps us win.
2. They know they're not keeping Lauri, so they're not inclined to try and make things work.
3. They don't think he's helpful as a starter, but think he's solid in that 15-19 minute role.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#49 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:35 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:It's funny because offensively the best fit next to Vuch is Lauri and defensively the best fit next to him is Theis. So what do we do? Start Thad, the guy who's the worst fit next to him.


Exactly.

The decision not to give Lauri and Vuc any time to establish a chemistry before marginalizing Markkanen is one of the biggest clues that this is not about winning.


I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.


Faith? Who cares about faith? He gives you buckets. Those are worth actual points. Just dump him after the season if it comes to that.

If we're trying to win NOW, he should play AND be involved in the offense.

I have literally never seen a healthy, well-behaved 18ppg scorer be buried like this. When he got benched, there was an expectation that his minutes were naturally going to take a slight dip, but that he would be "featured" in the 2nd unit. As it turns out, nothing could be further from the truth. He's LESS involved now than he was with the starters.

As I said in some other thread, the 2nd unit is now the Coby White show. Why, I have no idea.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#50 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:38 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.

His future with the team is irrelevant if we're really all in on the playoffs. Playing him 15 minutes and getting him 3-5 shots doesn't help the team, it hurts it.

Either cut him out of the rotation entirely so those 15 minutes can go to other players who are better suited to fill that role or play him more in the 25 minute range and involve him in the offense so he can actually help the team with his scoring and shooting.

What we're doing right now just doesn't make sense given that our goal is the playoffs. That doesn't just apply to Lauri either, the minutes and utilization of Coby, PWill, and to a lesser extent Thad are illogical from that standpoint as well.


My guess is that our coaching staff is grappling with several issues:

1. They don't think Lauri playing 30MPG actually helps us win.
2. They know they're not keeping Lauri, so they're not inclined to try and make things work.
3. They don't think he's helpful as a starter, but think he's solid in that 15-19 minute role.


Let's face it - Lauri Markkanen will never be the guy who plays 15 minutes, takes only 3 shots but gives you a lot of "hustle" and rebounds. You're confusing him with Daniel Gafford.

He's a scorer, and a very efficient one this season.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#51 » by HomoSapien » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:39 pm

ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
Exactly.

The decision not to give Lauri and Vuc any time to establish a chemistry before marginalizing Markkanen is one of the biggest clues that this is not about winning.


I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.


Faith? Who cares about faith? He gives you buckets. Those are worth actual points. Just dump him after the season if it comes to that.

If we're trying to win NOW, he should play AND be involved in the offense.

I have literally never seen a healthy, well-behaved 18ppg scorer be buried like this. When he got benched, there was an expectation that his minutes were naturally going to take a slight dip, but that he would be "featured" in the 2nd unit. As it turns out, nothing could be further from the truth. He's LESS involved now than he was with the starters.

As I said in some other thread, the 2nd unit is now the Coby White show. Why, I have no idea.


Obviously, I didn't mean faith in some sort of religious sense but instead I was using it in the extremely common English language idiom use of they don't believe in his abilities.

Again, our record with Lauri playing is dreadful so it's perfectly reasonable for the coaching staff to arrive at the conclusion that he doesn't help us win.

Obviously the same can be said about Coby and Williams, but they're under contract still so they're not going to hault their development.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#52 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:42 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.


Faith? Who cares about faith? He gives you buckets. Those are worth actual points. Just dump him after the season if it comes to that.

If we're trying to win NOW, he should play AND be involved in the offense.

I have literally never seen a healthy, well-behaved 18ppg scorer be buried like this. When he got benched, there was an expectation that his minutes were naturally going to take a slight dip, but that he would be "featured" in the 2nd unit. As it turns out, nothing could be further from the truth. He's LESS involved now than he was with the starters.

As I said in some other thread, the 2nd unit is now the Coby White show. Why, I have no idea.


Obviously, I didn't mean faith in some sort of religious sense but instead I was using it in the extremely common English language idiom use of they don't believe in his abilities.

Again, our record with Lauri playing is dreadful so it's perfectly reasonable for the coaching staff to arrive at the conclusion that he doesn't help us win.

Obviously the same can be said about Coby and Williams, but they're under contract still so they're not going to hault their development.


I know. They don't need "belief" either. Just put him out there, give him 25 minutes with a reasonable amount of touches and shots and see what happens.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#53 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:47 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Agreed. Besides, if Theis is our 3 or 4th best player (and he's certainly playing like it right now) we don't really have the luxury to bring him off the bench. He works better with Vuc, Zac, and Sato and Thad in particular works better with Lauri and Coby.


Luxury?

We have one one of the worst players on the team (Pat) in the starting lineup right now, while an 18ppg scorer (Lauri) barely gets playing time.

I really doubt Donovan is thinking in terms of who's a "luxury" and whatnot.


I'm not sure what Pat Williams has to do with whether or not Theis should start over Thad.


I was thinking the same thing, except substitute "Markkanen" for "Mr. Patrick Williams"... but here we are. :dontknow:
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#54 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:04 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
I would have given them a chance to establish chemistry too, but for the life of me I don't understand why you don't seem to think this might be because they have no faith in Lauri/have decided not to retain him.

His future with the team is irrelevant if we're really all in on the playoffs. Playing him 15 minutes and getting him 3-5 shots doesn't help the team, it hurts it.

Either cut him out of the rotation entirely so those 15 minutes can go to other players who are better suited to fill that role or play him more in the 25 minute range and involve him in the offense so he can actually help the team with his scoring and shooting.

What we're doing right now just doesn't make sense given that our goal is the playoffs. That doesn't just apply to Lauri either, the minutes and utilization of Coby, PWill, and to a lesser extent Thad are illogical from that standpoint as well.


My guess is that our coaching staff is grappling with several issues:

1. They don't think Lauri playing 30MPG actually helps us win.
2. They know they're not keeping Lauri, so they're not inclined to try and make things work.
3. They don't think he's helpful as a starter, but think he's solid in that 15-19 minute role.

If that's the case then they're very bad at their job. Lauri doesn't need to start and he doesn't need to play 30 minutes, but the way they're using him now doesn't help the team. If they were actually involving him during those 15-19 minutes like he was for those 2 games then that would be one thing, but Billy made it clear that's not going to be the case when he said Lauri will no longer be "featured."

He's downright dreadful in this current Keith Bogans role. It's just a total misutilization of his skillset. Even if they think he's only worthy of 15-19 minutes, that's fine, but at least use him properly during those 15-19 minutes. It doesn't make any sense. It hurts the team and could easily be corrected by using him properly even if his minutes do not change.

I think most of our problems are obvious and could be fixed rather easily:

1) Do not allow Coby to play PG under any circumstances. Use him strictly as an offball scoring guard. We can go backup PG by committee.

2) Start someone other than Thad at PF next to Vuch since they're redundant and a poor fit together. Thad can go back to his hub passer role off the bench and be in a better position to post up and slash instead of getting in Vuch's way and failing to stretch the floor.

3) Move PWill to the bench and limit his minutes to 20 or so. TBJ, Temple when he returns, or even Denzel or Lauri could start over him.

4) Make more of an effort to involve Lauri in the offense during his time on the floor, even if he stays in that 15-19 minute range, though I personally think he should be closer to 25.

5) Obviously Zach and Vuch should be the focal points of our offense, but we need to go back to involving everyone in the offense because we're better as a team when we do so. Right now it's mostly just Zach and Vuch with a dashing of whoever is playing the hub role while the other guys just stand around and watch. When Zach and Vuch are on the bench, it's the Coby show, again, with a dashing of whoever is playing the hub role while everyone else just stands around.

That doesn't help our overall PG and defensive concerns, but it shores up a lot of the smaller but still problematic issues. Basically what I'm saying is, we need to put every player on our roster in their proper roles and do everything possible to utilize them properly during their time on the court. We're not doing that right now at all and there's at least four players I can point to for proof.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#55 » by HomoSapien » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:03 pm

ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
Faith? Who cares about faith? He gives you buckets. Those are worth actual points. Just dump him after the season if it comes to that.

If we're trying to win NOW, he should play AND be involved in the offense.

I have literally never seen a healthy, well-behaved 18ppg scorer be buried like this. When he got benched, there was an expectation that his minutes were naturally going to take a slight dip, but that he would be "featured" in the 2nd unit. As it turns out, nothing could be further from the truth. He's LESS involved now than he was with the starters.

As I said in some other thread, the 2nd unit is now the Coby White show. Why, I have no idea.


Obviously, I didn't mean faith in some sort of religious sense but instead I was using it in the extremely common English language idiom use of they don't believe in his abilities.

Again, our record with Lauri playing is dreadful so it's perfectly reasonable for the coaching staff to arrive at the conclusion that he doesn't help us win.

Obviously the same can be said about Coby and Williams, but they're under contract still so they're not going to hault their development.


I know. They don't need "belief" either. Just put him out there, give him 25 minutes with a reasonable amount of touches and shots and see what happens.


They know what will happen and with that knowledge they’ve still said, “no thanks, we’re good.”
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#56 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:18 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Obviously, I didn't mean faith in some sort of religious sense but instead I was using it in the extremely common English language idiom use of they don't believe in his abilities.

Again, our record with Lauri playing is dreadful so it's perfectly reasonable for the coaching staff to arrive at the conclusion that he doesn't help us win.

Obviously the same can be said about Coby and Williams, but they're under contract still so they're not going to hault their development.


I know. They don't need "belief" either. Just put him out there, give him 25 minutes with a reasonable amount of touches and shots and see what happens.


They know what will happen and with that knowledge they’ve still said, “no thanks, we’re good.”


Duh! He's averaged over 30 min/game for over 200 NBA games.

Lauri has played over 6,000 NBA minutes, and outside of a pair of less-than-20-games hot streaks, he's an average scorer.

A below-average defensive talent. A below-average passer.

Every GM in the league knows this. They all know he hasn't improved since his rookie year. They all know he's not likely to improve much over the rest of his career.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#57 » by DunkenDunk » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:47 pm

I think it would make sense to at least try out the two tower schema with Vuzic and Theis in starup and maybe even brown replacing the PW. Then on second unit we could have Thad as PF, PW as C, Lauri as SF, Arci as PG and Valentine as SG.Cobe could switch in SG position with Zach and Valentine when ever needed.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#58 » by MrSparkle » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:09 am

HomoSapien wrote:It has been mentioned by multiple people in various threads, but to me it's abundantly clear that Daniel Theis needs to start and have a bigger role on this team. The reasonings are as such:

1.) He's the best rim protector on our team and can cover up Vuc's mobility issues on defensive rotations.

2.) He's a better shooter than Thad, and thus provides more spacing.

3.) The chemistry between he and Zach is pretty clear, so it benefits them both to be on the court together as much as possible.

4.) He's arguably the only energy player on the roster, and theoretically gets us off to better starts.

5.) Bringing Thad off the bench allows us to go back to using him as an offensive hub, and lessens our backup PG issues since he can help create offense.


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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#59 » by thedarkstark » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:36 am

I've been saying this since the 2nd game after the trade. I thin Troy Brown or Temple should probably also start at the 3.
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Re: Daniel Theis Needs To Start 

Post#60 » by HOTCARL_o » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:11 am

I’m for putting Theis and Brown in the starting lineup and have Thad and Sato come off the bench. Vuc/Theis/PW/TBJ/Lavine . Pretty much the starting lineup would be team AK and the 2nd unit would be team GarPax.

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