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OT: Dogecoin

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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#41 » by TheStig » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 pm

Cabbage bulls wrote:
TheStig wrote:I don't understand what gives all this crypto value. It's not backed by anything. I've just never been able to make sense of it. I'd love a good explanation.

What makes gold have any value? It's pretty damn worthless aside from the fact that it is finite and doesn't corrode away.

Gold is a precious metal, you make valuable things and other things from it and it's finite. It's also very durable.

What can I do with a dog coin? Who made it? I have a dog. Can he make a coin?

I'm not trying to mock it. I just really don't get it.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#42 » by Ice Man » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:27 pm

TheStig wrote:I don't understand what gives all this crypto value. It's not backed by anything. I've just never been able to make sense of it. I'd love a good explanation.


There is no good explanation.

1) Gold is valuable because people think it has value. Yeah it's shiny and actually exists, and even has some industrial issues, but effectively its value derives from the perception that it has value.

2) Cryptos are valuable because people think they have value. Yeah they can be used as currencies, but effectively their value derives from the perception that they have value.

Same for NFTs, basketball trading cards, and Beanie Babies.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#43 » by Pentele » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:44 pm

Ice Man wrote:
TheStig wrote:I don't understand what gives all this crypto value. It's not backed by anything. I've just never been able to make sense of it. I'd love a good explanation.


There is no good explanation.

1) Gold is valuable because people think it has value. Yeah it's shiny and actually exists, and even has some industrial issues, but effectively its value derives from the perception that it has value.

2) Cryptos are valuable because people think they have value. Yeah they can be used as currencies, but effectively their value derives from the perception that they have value.

Same for NFTs, basketball trading cards, and Beanie Babies.


I think that is a pretty good explanation to be honest. Or to be more precise, that is the starting point of a good explanation.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#44 » by detlef_schrempf » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:47 pm

TheStig wrote:
Cabbage bulls wrote:
TheStig wrote:I don't understand what gives all this crypto value. It's not backed by anything. I've just never been able to make sense of it. I'd love a good explanation.

What makes gold have any value? It's pretty damn worthless aside from the fact that it is finite and doesn't corrode away.

Gold is a precious metal, you make valuable things and other things from it and it's finite. It's also very durable.

What can I do with a dog coin? Who made it? I have a dog. Can he make a coin?

I'm not trying to mock it. I just really don't get it.


Why does it matter that gold is a precious metal? That means nothing in the current age.

The world is digital, and it will become only more so.

Imagine a world...in the not too distant future. Perhaps think of it as a sci-fi show set in the future or on a different planet where there is no such thing as a dollar or paper currency. And everything can be bought and sold with crypto via a tap of your phone or a smart object. We aren't far from there. Dogecoin may be nonsense, but it's representative of a very real future where everything can be bought as sold with your crypto bank account.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#45 » by Cabbage bulls » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:39 pm

TheStig wrote:
Cabbage bulls wrote:
TheStig wrote:I don't understand what gives all this crypto value. It's not backed by anything. I've just never been able to make sense of it. I'd love a good explanation.

What makes gold have any value? It's pretty damn worthless aside from the fact that it is finite and doesn't corrode away.

Gold is a precious metal, you make valuable things and other things from it and it's finite. It's also very durable.

What can I do with a dog coin? Who made it? I have a dog. Can he make a coin?

I'm not trying to mock it. I just really don't get it.

Bitcoin is durable and finite as well. It weighs nothing and takes up no physical space, isn't costly to store and transport, can be transported almost instantaneously. It can't simply be confiscated by a corrupt government or robbers.

Other cryptocurrencies have more use than just simply as a digital form of gold. I'm not trying to be condescending here, but it appears you haven't done any research on cryptocurrency or made any effort to yet. It would take a lot for somebody here to explain the ins and outs to you. Do some research if you really want to know.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#46 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:05 pm

Seems silly to me to not invest a small percentage of your portfolio/savings into Crypto. You aren’t going to hurt losing 5-10% of your portfolio if it busts. And they are lottery tickets, but man are they hitting at a very high rate and making a lot of people millionaires.

Ethereum does have real world value that the others don’t. It’s why so many of the experts love it, even more than Bitcoin.

But please be cautious. Lots of horror stories of individuals not understanding what constitutes taxable income, and playing day trader, not realizing they’d owe the IRS thousands.

Just treat it like a small savings account, inserting a little at a time. Coinbase fees are rough, but worth it in the long haul IMO.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#47 » by TheStig » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:06 pm

Cabbage bulls wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Cabbage bulls wrote:What makes gold have any value? It's pretty damn worthless aside from the fact that it is finite and doesn't corrode away.

Gold is a precious metal, you make valuable things and other things from it and it's finite. It's also very durable.

What can I do with a dog coin? Who made it? I have a dog. Can he make a coin?

I'm not trying to mock it. I just really don't get it.

Bitcoin is durable and finite as well. It weighs nothing and takes up no physical space, isn't costly to store and transport, can be transported almost instantaneously. It can't simply be confiscated by a corrupt government or robbers.

Other cryptocurrencies have more use than just simply as a digital form of gold. I'm not trying to be condescending here, but it appears you haven't done any research on cryptocurrency or made any effort to yet. It would take a lot for somebody here to explain the ins and outs to you. Do some research if you really want to know.

Sure they can. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crypto-currency-germany-password/police-seize-60-million-of-bitcoin-now-wheres-the-password-idUSKBN2A511T The gov might not have gotten the money but the man can't either. There is also a lot of lost bitcoin https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/technology/bitcoin-passwords-wallets-fortunes.html 20% of all bitcoin is lost or inaccessable. Doesn't strike me as so secure.

I also don't know what it's backed by. To me, it seems like someone just made it up.

Maybe I'm just a more touch person but I just don't get it. It's like someone woke up and decided it would have value.

The other risk is that countries could just ban it.

I've done some research but it just doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#48 » by TheStig » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:08 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:Seems silly to me to not invest a small percentage of your portfolio/savings into Crypto. You aren’t going to hurt losing 5-10% of your portfolio if it busts. And they are lottery tickets, but man are they hitting at a very high rate and making a lot of people millionaires.

Ethereum does have real world value that the others don’t. It’s why so many of the experts love it, even more than Bitcoin.

But please be cautious. Lots of horror stories of individuals not understanding what constitutes taxable income, and playing day trader, not realizing they’d owe the IRS thousands.

Just treat it like a small savings account, inserting a little at a time. Coinbase fees are rough, but worth it in the long haul IMO.

Please elaborate. I heard the name but don't follow all of these.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#49 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:11 pm

TheStig wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:Seems silly to me to not invest a small percentage of your portfolio/savings into Crypto. You aren’t going to hurt losing 5-10% of your portfolio if it busts. And they are lottery tickets, but man are they hitting at a very high rate and making a lot of people millionaires.

Ethereum does have real world value that the others don’t. It’s why so many of the experts love it, even more than Bitcoin.

But please be cautious. Lots of horror stories of individuals not understanding what constitutes taxable income, and playing day trader, not realizing they’d owe the IRS thousands.

Just treat it like a small savings account, inserting a little at a time. Coinbase fees are rough, but worth it in the long haul IMO.

Please elaborate. I heard the name but don't follow all of these.


Oof, it’s pretty complex and I’d need a refresher just to explain it confidently, but Ethereum can create programmable contracts that can be used for real world applications.

Article does it better.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/031416/bitcoin-vs-ethereum-driven-different-purposes.asp

There are some YouTubers that help with this, but it’ll likely take a few hours of watching to get a grasp. I’ve had a buddy explain it to me 5 different times to still not quite get it. I’m not in that industry or IT, so my brain doesn’t really function that way.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#50 » by MrSparkle » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:57 pm

It's the gamification of capitalism.

We're down the dark path here, as the flow of money has less and less to do with any fundamentals whatsoever. The supply and demand is FOMO in this case, not food and resources.

Doge is kind of fun. It's like a pile-on dare game; no cap, you just buy into the pool and hope you get in and out at the right times. Fairly harmless fun unless more than you can afford and the trading app crashes when you need to exit.

In the grand scheme, this crypto bubble shan't end pretty. Crypto-currency is going to have to be regulated, or renamed to Crypto-betting. If you look at the long-term ramifications here, people's 401ks and pensions are all at stake. Putting these 100b cap crypto currencies into the main-stream market seems to be going in hand with tech stock over-value. We're introducing a level of volatility to the world-wide markets that we haven't seen since 1989 Japan.

Dot com and mortgage driven crashes happened. I fear some sort of a looming currency and index-fund crash, with an even smaller pot of winners. To many parts becoming inter-connected. Bitcoin and Dogecoin are now linked to the S&P 500.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#51 » by PlayerUp » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm

MrSparkle wrote:Dot com and mortgage driven crashes happened. I fear some sort of a looming currency and index-fund crash, with an even smaller pot of winners. To many parts becoming inter-connected. Bitcoin and Dogecoin are now linked to the S&P 500.


Crypto has crashed 3 times already. It always rebounds. Those who held came out on top.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#52 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:21 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Great story. This is my YOLO move. It seems silly, but I truly think if I play this right it could turn out to be a life-changing gamble.
I know nothing about this stuff, but how much should someone buy if they're trying to get into it right now? I recently came into some money and have been looking for some investment opportunities but the whole GME thing looks too volatile so this may be a good alternative.

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Crypto is really volatile as well, but it seems like a realistic goal for Dogecoin is a $1.00 per coin valuation. Like a week ago it was worth 5 cents and now it's worth more than a U.S. quarter.


I'm not saying this won't happen, but why do you feel that is realistic that it will be worth 20x what it was before? What is the driving factor that it will be worth more? Where can you spend it and how can you use it?

If you are betting it will be worth more because you think other people will just do the same thing to drive up the price, then you are purely speculating and assuming you are smarter than everyone else in the market.

That might be true, it might be a great gamble, but if there is no fundamental reason that it will be worth more, it could just as easily be worth 1c in two months. Your rationale for investing is just that lots of other people made money on crypto, and historically, when people start buying for this reason, they have already missed the train. Just like those who tried to buy gamestop at 300 to short squeeze it more because it became a major news item.

Now maybe (to continue on the gamestop analogy) we are at the point where gamestop was at 100 and it was a big story, and it still went way up, and you still could have been way more profitable, but maybe you're already at the peak, and you are the sucker that's going to lose all the money that makes someone else rich.

Unless you have some reason/rationale to know why you think one is true vs the other, you're just blind guessing on a high risk asset. There are high risk assets at any point in time that you can gamble on if you just want to gamble in high risk assets. Just play stock options or commodities or whatever else. It's a permanent option to gamble in things with massive volatility if you just want to throw your money into something that can just as easily go up by a factor of 10 as go to zero.

Or maybe this isn't gamestop at all, and there is a strong fundamental reason why dogecoin is going to have high value in the future.

Again, this isn't to say crypto won't be a great investment from here forward. I'm sure someone in 1990 was saying it's time to get out of microsoft, they made so much money already. I would just look to understand why you think an investment has value prior to getting into it.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#53 » by BigUps » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 pm

Until you can buy most goods with crypto I don't see how it grows. Bitcoin has a chance I suppose (Tesla seems to think so), but the rest of them seem like more novelties than something an average person could use.

Can you legitimately buy anything with DOGE? Not black market or paying a friend, but an actual business.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#54 » by Sinistar6 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm

Crazy economy, I think this went from 6 cents to 40 in 2 days. Influencers can now influence the economy...

Not that that is a bad thing stick it to the hedge funds but this is crazy volatility.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#55 » by HomoSapien » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:42 pm

dougthonus wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:I know nothing about this stuff, but how much should someone buy if they're trying to get into it right now? I recently came into some money and have been looking for some investment opportunities but the whole GME thing looks too volatile so this may be a good alternative.

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Crypto is really volatile as well, but it seems like a realistic goal for Dogecoin is a $1.00 per coin valuation. Like a week ago it was worth 5 cents and now it's worth more than a U.S. quarter.


I'm not saying this won't happen, but why do you feel that is realistic that it will be worth 20x what it was before? What is the driving factor that it will be worth more? Where can you spend it and how can you use it?

If you are betting it will be worth more because you think other people will just do the same thing to drive up the price, then you are purely speculating and assuming you are smarter than everyone else in the market.

That might be true, it might be a great gamble, but if there is no fundamental reason that it will be worth more, it could just as easily be worth 1c in two months. Your rationale for investing is just that lots of other people made money on crypto, and historically, when people start buying for this reason, they have already missed the train. Just like those who tried to buy gamestop at 300 to short squeeze it more because it became a major news item.

Now maybe (to continue on the gamestop analogy) we are at the point where gamestop was at 100 and it was a big story, and it still went way up, and you still could have been way more profitable, but maybe you're already at the peak, and you are the sucker that's going to lose all the money that makes someone else rich.

Unless you have some reason/rationale to know why you think one is true vs the other, you're just blind guessing on a high risk asset. There are high risk assets at any point in time that you can gamble on if you just want to gamble in high risk assets. Just play stock options or commodities or whatever else. It's a permanent option to gamble in things with massive volatility if you just want to throw your money into something that can just as easily go up by a factor of 10 as go to zero.

Or maybe this isn't gamestop at all, and there is a strong fundamental reason why dogecoin is going to have high value in the future.

Again, this isn't to say crypto won't be a great investment from here forward. I'm sure someone in 1990 was saying it's time to get out of microsoft, they made so much money already. I would just look to understand why you think an investment has value prior to getting into it.


I'm not an expert in this by any means, but here's the main two things I think Dogecoin has going for it:

1.) Extremely big influencers (Elon Musk, Mark Cuban, Snoop Dogg) backing it. The Mavs alone have sold a $120k in Doge merchandise. If it joins Coinbase as expected, you will see more businesses accept it as currency (approximately 1200 online stores accept it as currency).

2.) It is up 400% this week alone, with it surging to 47 cents early this morning before dipping in the afternoon. The "meme-ability" of this stock is driving this to a large extent and I think as this becomes bigger news, you'll see that meme culture help push the supply and demand of Doge (4/20 is expected to be a big day).
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#56 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:43 pm

BigUps wrote:Until you can buy most goods with crypto I don't see how it grows. Bitcoin has a chance I suppose (Tesla seems to think so), but the rest of them seem like more novelties than something an average person could use.

Can you legitimately buy anything with DOGE? Not black market or paying a friend, but an actual business.


Things are worth what people think they are worth.

It's like NFTs have no meaningful value except someone decides they are value. Same as investing in artwork.

I do think Chicago-Bull-E made an interesting observation though, this is a really high risk / high reward thing you may want to consider adding to your overall portfolio as long as you understand the very high risk part.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#57 » by JockItch43 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:58 pm

BigUps wrote:Until you can buy most goods with crypto I don't see how it grows. Bitcoin has a chance I suppose (Tesla seems to think so), but the rest of them seem like more novelties than something an average person could use.

Can you legitimately buy anything with DOGE? Not black market or paying a friend, but an actual business.



Well since you mentioned Tesla legitimizing Bitcoin by allowing you to purchase a Tesla with it... the same thing applies to DOGE.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#58 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:59 pm

the problem with crypto imo is less the notion that it has 'value' assigned to it because people says it does, and more the fact that it's 'value' is wholly psychological and seems to fit the definition of a pump and dump scheme. its value is artificial because people think it will appreciate in value, not because it actual has some material use or exchange value. it's basically gambling which is a step further than using the stock market for its intended purpose, to distribute capital to goods/services which may or may not actually provide some sort of value.

somehow I think this is connected to the NBA's recent turn toward online gambling. can I complain about that for a second? I don't wanna hear Marv Albert telling me about betting lines and draftkings during an actual broadcast. how is that any different from kevin harlan being like, "and steph nails the three!! and remember to smoke marlboro!"


some people have told me that the actual technology behind crypto might be useful, i don't know much about that, but of course that's not what people are actually investing in. it's a get rich quick scheme (or lose everything...kinda like gambling).
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#59 » by BigUps » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:07 pm

dougthonus wrote:
BigUps wrote:Until you can buy most goods with crypto I don't see how it grows. Bitcoin has a chance I suppose (Tesla seems to think so), but the rest of them seem like more novelties than something an average person could use.

Can you legitimately buy anything with DOGE? Not black market or paying a friend, but an actual business.


Things are worth what people think they are worth.

It's like NFTs have no meaningful value except someone decides they are value. Same as investing in artwork.

I do think Chicago-Bull-E made an interesting observation though, this is a really high risk / high reward thing you may want to consider adding to your overall portfolio as long as you understand the very high risk part.

I agree with that. It’s definitely a thing to consider when diversifying your portfolio.


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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#60 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:11 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I'm not an expert in this by any means, but here's the main two things I think Dogecoin has going for it:

1.) Extremely big influencers (Elon Musk, Mark Cuban, Snoop Dogg) backing it. The Mavs alone have sold a $120k in Doge merchandise. If it joins Coinbase as expected, you will see more businesses accept it as currency (approximately 1200 online stores accept it as currency).

2.) It is up 400% this week alone, with it surging to 47 cents early this morning before dipping in the afternoon. The "meme-ability" of this stock is driving this to a large extent and I think as this becomes bigger news, you'll see that meme culture help push the supply and demand of Doge (4/20 is expected to be a big day).


Being up 400% this week alone isn't a positive in terms of future value. It's rare for something to be up 4x its previous value in a week, and if it is, it's more rare for it to continue to go up another 4x. What changed in the last week that makes it 4x as valuable? Why should that be sustainable? If something did change to make it 4x as valuable, why do you think it will be up 4x as much again?

I agree that if it joins coinbase and can be accepted more that would be a positive. The odds of that happening, in traditional markets, would already be priced into it though, and so if this happens you may not necessarily see a spiek.

I agree that the meme-ability of it is likely to attract a lot of stupid money into the product, and that might push up the value, but that's also already happened to a large extent.

At any rate, again, I'm not trying to talk you into or out of doing any specific thing with your money. Just noting that you should make informed investment decisions. I'm sure someone with a lot of crypto knowledge could give you a set of logical reasons as to why crypto will be even more valuable in 10 years and someone else could say the opposite.
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