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OT: Dogecoin

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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#61 » by League Circles » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:27 pm

JockItch43 wrote:
BigUps wrote:Until you can buy most goods with crypto I don't see how it grows. Bitcoin has a chance I suppose (Tesla seems to think so), but the rest of them seem like more novelties than something an average person could use.

Can you legitimately buy anything with DOGE? Not black market or paying a friend, but an actual business.



Well since you mentioned Tesla legitimizing Bitcoin by allowing you to purchase a Tesla with it... the same thing applies to DOGE.

Is Tesla actually offering vehicles for sale at STABLE crypto prices or do they just perform essentially an exchange for you, where the crypto price of the car goes up and down with the market? The former would be a big deal. The latter, a joke IMO.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#62 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:30 pm

League Circles wrote:
JockItch43 wrote:
BigUps wrote:Until you can buy most goods with crypto I don't see how it grows. Bitcoin has a chance I suppose (Tesla seems to think so), but the rest of them seem like more novelties than something an average person could use.

Can you legitimately buy anything with DOGE? Not black market or paying a friend, but an actual business.



Well since you mentioned Tesla legitimizing Bitcoin by allowing you to purchase a Tesla with it... the same thing applies to DOGE.

Is Tesla actually offering vehicles for sale at STABLE crypto prices or do they just perform essentially an exchange for you, where the crypto price of the car goes up and down with the market? The former would be a big deal. The latter, a joke IMO.


I don't think the 2nd thing is a joke. That his how all currencies work. If I go to Japan, they don't say this costs 3 dollars, they convert the cost at the current exchange rate.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#63 » by TheAlanParsons » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:33 pm

dougthonus wrote:
League Circles wrote:
JockItch43 wrote:

Well since you mentioned Tesla legitimizing Bitcoin by allowing you to purchase a Tesla with it... the same thing applies to DOGE.

Is Tesla actually offering vehicles for sale at STABLE crypto prices or do they just perform essentially an exchange for you, where the crypto price of the car goes up and down with the market? The former would be a big deal. The latter, a joke IMO.


I don't think the 2nd thing is a joke. That his how all currencies work. If I go to Japan, they don't say this costs 3 dollars, they convert the cost at the current exchange rate.

This is incredibly wrong.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#64 » by Almost Retired » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:38 pm

First, before any novice without a good, basic fall back portfolio I would avoid crypto speculation, especially at these elevated prices. And read an old book that remains relevant today: "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" by Charles Mackay (1841). Understand the psychology of bubbles before possibly participating. The overall stock market is currently in a bubble based on definable metrics that have been used for decades. I don't know if crypto is in a bubble or not because there is no definable way attach an actual value to it. It is valuable to people because they think it will rise in value. Maybe that's true and it's the speculation of the century. But maybe it's not and it becomes the embodiment of the "greater fool theory".

Second, correct me if I'm wrong. I live in Texas. In our last deep freeze in February when our windmills froze up we were very close to having a full out melt down of our state's electric grid. Had we lost power, lost all computer connectivity, lost our cell phone towers, etc.....how could a person in Texas have cashed out any crypto if they needed the cash for an immediate pressing need? What if we have a big problem nationally with our electric grid. Say from a severe solar flare or god forbid an EMP sent to us from China or Russia. The grid could be down for months if not years. Where's my money that I have stored in crypto if I need it under those extreme circumstances?

I am not an investor in crypto. I'm too close to retirement to need to do pure speculation. Right now I am playing it safe with mostly gold and silver bullion.... and gold, silver, uranium and copper mining stocks. That sector has not overheated like the rest of the market. I know they are considered relics by some, but when you're 443 days from retirement you appreciate the peace of mind knowing that gold and silver have been "money" for close to 5,000 years. Central banks are actively buying mass quantities of gold for their central banks. China especially. Their digital yuan is going to be backed by gold. Which is going to make it very attractive to foreign countries and companies that are tired of a US Dollar Reserve Currency system that allows America to increase it's money supply without limit. At some point in the future the US Dollar will lose it's Reserve Currency status. When that happens you are going to see inflation like you never imagined. Gold and silver will retain value over time. Purchasing power. (Of course I acknowledge that crypto will do well as people look for any way to get out of Dollars at that point.)

I can recommend certain mining stock investments to widows and orphans. Take Newmont Mining (NEM). It operates mines in North America, South America, Argentina, Australia, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Ghana and Suriname. They are generating a ton of free cash with gold spot prices well above production costs. It's profits will rise with the gold price. The company has been in business for over 100 years, and it is the largest and best capitalized mining company in the world. So you have safety, geographic diversification, the potential for significant capital appreciation and it pays a dividend near 3.5% so you get paid to wait. That dividend yield is 3 times more than you can get with bonds and 10 times more than a money market fund. And your principal is an inflation hedge. NEM is one of the safest investments in the world right now. For a little more sizzle you could add SIL, Global X Silver Miners ETF. The fund hold shares in all the top silver mining companies like Pan American (PAAS), Hecle Mining (HL), First Majestic (AG), Wheaton PM (WPM), Coeur Mining (CDE), etc. The fund is diversified between companies and regions. It is more volatile, but we will be entering a period whereby silver will outperform gold. And silver is going to be in a severe shortage due to supply inadequacies. The move to more electric vehicles, more solar energy, etc. is driving up the industrial use of silver. Because silver and gold prices were in a bear market for a decade there were no investments being made to dig for and develop new mines. It takes 15-20 years for a "find" to become a working, paying mine. The capital needed is huge and the governmental permitting process takes a very long time. There will be no way for production to meet the rising need for silver. The price will inevitably rise. And while you sit and wait for SILJ to pay off with capital appreciation they give you a 2.08% Dividend Yield.

For copper you have to own Freeport-McMoRan (FCX) and Rio Tinto (RIO). Copper will exhibit some of the same supply shortages as silver due to it's widespread use in everything electric. For uranium look also to Rio Tinto and Cameco (CCJ).... RIO pays a dividend yield > 5%. There is also a Uranium ETF called "URA" which is diversified to lower risk and still pays almost a 1.5% Dividend yield. Uranium will come back into vogue as green energy regulations are going to prevent more coal and nat gas fired power generating plants. Something is going to have to supply our power needs when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow.

That's my free advice, and it's probably worth what you paid for it. Buy real "stuff" first. Make that the core of your portfolio. I'd add some energy/oil/natural gas/hydrogen fuel cell investments and perhaps a lithium play. With all the electric vehicles anticipated they need lithium for their enormous batteries. Once you have a solid core portfolio you can afford to speculate on crypto with no more than 5-10% of your net worth. And only if you're younger. At least under 55 years old. Above that age capital preservation is more important that pure speculation.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#65 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:38 pm

TheAlanParsons wrote:This is incredibly wrong.


You don't think when you do a foreign transaction that they are using the current exchange rate? You think they just post stable prices in foreign currency that stay static regardless of exchange rate?

Please educate me, because that seems to be the opposite of my experience every time I've traveled. My credit card automatically does the exchange rate for me in fact and pays in foreign currency and charges me the US currency at current exchange rate prices (without transaction fee).
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#66 » by TheAlanParsons » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:47 pm

dougthonus wrote:
TheAlanParsons wrote:This is incredibly wrong.


You don't think when you do a foreign transaction that they are using the current exchange rate? You think they just post stable prices in foreign currency that stay static regardless of exchange rate?

Please educate me, because that seems to be the opposite of my experience every time I've traveled. My credit card automatically does the exchange rate for me in fact and pays in foreign currency.


Your credit card pays in foreign currency because in those countries (with stable currencies - such as Japan) people charge for their goods and services in THEIR OWN currency. Their 300 yen item was 300 yen yesterday and 300 yen tomorrow. The shopkeepers don't sit around and calculate how much this would be in American Dollars and change their asking price daily.

On the other hand, if they were charging in Dogecoin they would be wise to do that, because that "currency" fluctuates to a tremendous degree.

Good god.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#67 » by League Circles » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:00 pm

dougthonus wrote:
League Circles wrote:
JockItch43 wrote:

Well since you mentioned Tesla legitimizing Bitcoin by allowing you to purchase a Tesla with it... the same thing applies to DOGE.

Is Tesla actually offering vehicles for sale at STABLE crypto prices or do they just perform essentially an exchange for you, where the crypto price of the car goes up and down with the market? The former would be a big deal. The latter, a joke IMO.


I don't think the 2nd thing is a joke. That his how all currencies work. If I go to Japan, they don't say this costs 3 dollars, they convert the cost at the current exchange rate.

Exactly! Which is why they don't say that goods in Japan are available to purchase in dollars, even though your credit card company may be willing to perform the exchange for you. Anyone will perform in exchange for a fee. That's not what would have meaning. What would have meaning would be to have prices denominated in cryptocurrency at stable prices.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#68 » by MrSparkle » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:15 pm

In the end, if you asked for a solution to humanity's problems...

- "more currencies" with no tangible value would not be it. :lol:

Sure, there might be some feel-good rags to rich tales here, but I don't think the poor kids of the world are going to make bank on crypto. This is more of a phenomena amongst rich teens with allowances, college students with parent's money to spare, and adults either with too much money or blue-collar workers hoping to boom or bust. Coupled on top of that the energy resources in crucial times, needed to mine these coins. Especially now as it's moved to the main-stream, as Wall St. and banking institutions are going to get a piece of the action.

Seems like one of those "planets that went wrong," in a Star Trek episode.

But I concur we've gotten here. I have dabbled over the years, light purchases in various coins. Just saying - it is stupid, besides for the high-ceiling profits to be made.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#69 » by R3AL1TY » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:40 pm

I finally jumped into Doge around .28 cents, now it's currently hovering between .38-.40 cents on average. But you can tell the big holders sold it off earlier today when the market cap dropped to the low $30 billions from $50 billion. With crypto being so unpredictable and volatile, you never know how high or low a coin can go. Especially the meme ones. The ongoing game is to jump in early before the hype and attention.

But if a person diversify their investment/betting in these coins with ones backed by a utility or asset like the shopping.io coin, ethereum, real estate coins, etc., you should have a somewhat of a safe haven.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#70 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:22 am

MrSparkle wrote:In the end, if you asked for a solution to humanity's problems...

- "more currencies" with no tangible value would not be it. :lol:

Sure, there might be some feel-good rags to rich tales here, but I don't think the poor kids of the world are going to make bank on crypto. This is more of a phenomena amongst rich teens with allowances, college students with parent's money to spare, and adults either with too much money or blue-collar workers hoping to boom or bust. Coupled on top of that the energy resources in crucial times, needed to mine these coins. Especially now as it's moved to the main-stream, as Wall St. and banking institutions are going to get a piece of the action.

Seems like one of those "planets that went wrong," in a Star Trek episode.

But I concur we've gotten here. I have dabbled over the years, light purchases in various coins. Just saying - it is stupid, besides for the high-ceiling profits to be made.


Kind of tough to know what the world is going to look like in 25 years, isn’t it?

I remember reading box scores in the newspaper as my only means of getting statistics from NBA games. If you would have told me then, that newspapers and cable TV would be close to obsolete in 25 years, I would have laughed in your face.

Crypto may fail as an institution, and maybe one day detractors will be right. But they’ve been wrong for for thousands of days up to this point, and likely thousands of days after today. Lots of money to be made up until that fateful day, if it does actually happen, which it may never.

It could also be the modern gold rush era, and a certain percentage of people will be kicking themselves in 25 years. It’s certainly looked like that’s the final outcome, hasn’t it?
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#71 » by CaPiTanAK » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:01 am

MrSparkle wrote:In the end, if you asked for a solution to humanity's problems...

- "more currencies" with no tangible value would not be it. :lol:

Sure, there might be some feel-good rags to rich tales here, but I don't think the poor kids of the world are going to make bank on crypto. This is more of a phenomena amongst rich teens with allowances, college students with parent's money to spare, and adults either with too much money or blue-collar workers hoping to boom or bust. Coupled on top of that the energy resources in crucial times, needed to mine these coins. Especially now as it's moved to the main-stream, as Wall St. and banking institutions are going to get a piece of the action.

Seems like one of those "planets that went wrong," in a Star Trek episode.

But I concur we've gotten here. I have dabbled over the years, light purchases in various coins. Just saying - it is stupid, besides for the high-ceiling profits to be made.


It's stupid bc you lack the foresight to understand the tech. No, I'm not going to sit here and explain it to you. Google it and do your own research if you want to know more.

I make six digits, and I only keep 1-3% of my assets in cash. The rest are either in stocks or cryptos, bc the USD printing press doesn't sleep. Brrrr 24/7 to keep the 1% richer and the 99% poorer with each passing second.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#72 » by MrSparkle » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:14 am

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:In the end, if you asked for a solution to humanity's problems...

- "more currencies" with no tangible value would not be it. :lol:

Sure, there might be some feel-good rags to rich tales here, but I don't think the poor kids of the world are going to make bank on crypto. This is more of a phenomena amongst rich teens with allowances, college students with parent's money to spare, and adults either with too much money or blue-collar workers hoping to boom or bust. Coupled on top of that the energy resources in crucial times, needed to mine these coins. Especially now as it's moved to the main-stream, as Wall St. and banking institutions are going to get a piece of the action.

Seems like one of those "planets that went wrong," in a Star Trek episode.

But I concur we've gotten here. I have dabbled over the years, light purchases in various coins. Just saying - it is stupid, besides for the high-ceiling profits to be made.


Kind of tough to know what the world is going to look like in 25 years, isn’t it?

I remember reading box scores in the newspaper as my only means of getting statistics from NBA games. If you would have told me then, that newspapers and cable TV would be close to obsolete in 25 years, I would have laughed in your face.

Crypto may fail as an institution, and maybe one day detractors will be right. But they’ve been wrong for for thousands of days up to this point, and likely thousands of days after today. Lots of money to be made up until that fateful day, if it does actually happen, which it may never.

It could also be the modern gold rush era, and a certain percentage of people will be kicking themselves in 25 years. It’s certainly looked like that’s the final outcome, hasn’t it?


I’m not saying it’ll crash and burn. I’m just saying it’s stupid. I have crypto in it. But I think instagram and twitter are stupid, so call me old fashioned. :lol:
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#73 » by MrSparkle » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:15 am

CaPiTanAK wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:In the end, if you asked for a solution to humanity's problems...

- "more currencies" with no tangible value would not be it. :lol:

Sure, there might be some feel-good rags to rich tales here, but I don't think the poor kids of the world are going to make bank on crypto. This is more of a phenomena amongst rich teens in with allowances, college students with parent's money to spare, and adults either with too much money or blue-collar workers hoping to boom or bust. Coupled on top of that the energy resources in crucial times, needed to mine these coins. Especially now as it's moved to the main-stream, as Wall St. and banking institutions are going to get a piece of the action.

Seems like one of those "planets that went wrong," in a Star Trek episode.

But I concur we've gotten here. I have dabbled over the years, light purchases in various coins. Just saying - it is stupid, besides for the high-ceiling profits to be made.


It's stupid bc you lack the foresight to understand the tech. No, I'm not going to sit here and explain it to you. Google it and do your own research if you want to know more.

I make six digits, and I only keep 1-3% of my assets in cash. The rest are either in stocks or cryptos, bc the USD printing press doesn't sleep. Brrrr 24/7 to keep the 1% richer and the 99% poorer with each passing second.


Right. What happens when all the Bitcoin is mined? Feudalism?

I’m not sure that MMT is the cause of inequality. In fact the two have nothing to do with each other. Not sure why a crypto currency with a cap is supposed to solve problems with lower/middle class jobs and education.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#74 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:59 am

dougthonus wrote:
TheAlanParsons wrote:This is incredibly wrong.


You don't think when you do a foreign transaction that they are using the current exchange rate? You think they just post stable prices in foreign currency that stay static regardless of exchange rate?

Please educate me, because that seems to be the opposite of my experience every time I've traveled. My credit card automatically does the exchange rate for me in fact and pays in foreign currency and charges me the US currency at current exchange rate prices (without transaction fee).

If the USD changed from being worth 108yen to 4000 then to 50 in the course of a week, we might be talkin
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#75 » by R3AL1TY » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:32 am

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
TheAlanParsons wrote:This is incredibly wrong.


You don't think when you do a foreign transaction that they are using the current exchange rate? You think they just post stable prices in foreign currency that stay static regardless of exchange rate?

Please educate me, because that seems to be the opposite of my experience every time I've traveled. My credit card automatically does the exchange rate for me in fact and pays in foreign currency and charges me the US currency at current exchange rate prices (without transaction fee).

If the USD changed from being worth 108yen to 4000 then to 50 in the course of a week, we might be talkin

Even though I see your point about instability, no crypto coin has seen such massive gains and drops in a week like your example.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#76 » by ZOMG » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:21 am

MrSparkle wrote:
CaPiTanAK wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:In the end, if you asked for a solution to humanity's problems...

- "more currencies" with no tangible value would not be it. :lol:

Sure, there might be some feel-good rags to rich tales here, but I don't think the poor kids of the world are going to make bank on crypto. This is more of a phenomena amongst rich teens in with allowances, college students with parent's money to spare, and adults either with too much money or blue-collar workers hoping to boom or bust. Coupled on top of that the energy resources in crucial times, needed to mine these coins. Especially now as it's moved to the main-stream, as Wall St. and banking institutions are going to get a piece of the action.

Seems like one of those "planets that went wrong," in a Star Trek episode.

But I concur we've gotten here. I have dabbled over the years, light purchases in various coins. Just saying - it is stupid, besides for the high-ceiling profits to be made.


It's stupid bc you lack the foresight to understand the tech. No, I'm not going to sit here and explain it to you. Google it and do your own research if you want to know more.

I make six digits, and I only keep 1-3% of my assets in cash. The rest are either in stocks or cryptos, bc the USD printing press doesn't sleep. Brrrr 24/7 to keep the 1% richer and the 99% poorer with each passing second.


Right. What happens when all the Bitcoin is mined? Feudalism?

I’m not sure that MMT is the cause of inequality. In fact the two have nothing to do with each other. Not sure why a crypto currency with a cap is supposed to solve problems with lower/middle class jobs and education.


Isn't Dogecoin pretty much "mined out" already?
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#77 » by dougthonus » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:49 am

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
TheAlanParsons wrote:This is incredibly wrong.


You don't think when you do a foreign transaction that they are using the current exchange rate? You think they just post stable prices in foreign currency that stay static regardless of exchange rate?

Please educate me, because that seems to be the opposite of my experience every time I've traveled. My credit card automatically does the exchange rate for me in fact and pays in foreign currency and charges me the US currency at current exchange rate prices (without transaction fee).

If the USD changed from being worth 108yen to 4000 then to 50 in the course of a week, we might be talkin


There are government backed currencies that are incredibly unstable (though they generally only go down in value), and in those cases, yes, you can get a different exchange rate from one day to the next.

I'm not claiming bit coin is stable, I'm saying it's pretty common practice to convert one currency into another when making a sale, and accepting bitcoin at the current market rate would be no different than accepting yen at the current conversion rate.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#78 » by dougthonus » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:55 am

League Circles wrote:Exactly! Which is why they don't say that goods in Japan are available to purchase in dollars, even though your credit card company may be willing to perform the exchange for you. Anyone will perform in exchange for a fee. That's not what would have meaning. What would have meaning would be to have prices denominated in cryptocurrency at stable prices.


I see your point. I mean there is no crypto country that does keep prices relatively stable in cryptocurrency. I still think being accepted as payment allows it to become more ubiquitous which has real meaning though. Tesla doing it doesn't really move the needle much, but if enough other companies followed it would.
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#79 » by Sinistar6 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:45 pm

OT:

What a weird economy this future has shaped out to be and in some ways I blame old school arcades.

I think of cash to gold the old school transaction. Gold is a precious metal and has consistent albeit fluctuated demand. Then I think of buying a book with cash a tan gable thing that brings enjoyment. Then I think of digital video games where you pay for enjoyment and replay ability. Then I think of cash for clothes in a video game and I want to stick my head in a blender.

I think the arcade was the first place you traded cash for a proprietary coin. Once you stick your money in the shady token machine there is no way to flip it back. You spend the money at the location or you don’t spend it. Also this idea of vbucks and robux is a great way to train kids that these things they want do not cost real money...
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Re: OT: Dogecoin 

Post#80 » by Bandit King » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:45 pm

Doge will reach the moon god willing! He's making me rich!
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