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Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#381 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:53 pm

TeamMan wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:The Athletic mentioned this on their Theis vs Lauri " What to do comparison". I would not read too much into it.

Read on Twitter


Lauri is last in the line headed to the locker room & AK ignores him.

Nice observation!

Watched this video several times, and it appears clear that:

- Vuc and Sato were palling it up together

- Lauri was trailing behind them and looked left out

- and AK was waiting especially to give Vuc some special attention, but ignored Lauri

Makes you wonder if something has already gone down between Lauri's agent and AK that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

Also makes you wonder if AK already has a deal waiting on the table for a Sign-and-Trade.


We're gonna go through this whole thing again??
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#382 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:46 pm

TeamMan wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:The Athletic mentioned this on their Theis vs Lauri " What to do comparison". I would not read too much into it.

Read on Twitter


Lauri is last in the line headed to the locker room & AK ignores him.

Nice observation!

Watched this video several times, and it appears clear that:

- Vuc and Sato were palling it up together

- Lauri was trailing behind them and looked left out

- and AK was waiting especially to give Vuc some special attention, but ignored Lauri

Makes you wonder if something has already gone down between Lauri's agent and AK that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

Also makes you wonder if AK already has a deal waiting on the table for a Sign-and-Trade.


AK is wearing a mask, so nobody knows if he was speaking or not.

Makes you wonder if he said "great game, Lauri!" before he turned and started talking to Vuc?

Also makes you wonder if he said "Hey Lauri, I'm maxing you out this summer!" before he turned and started talking to Vuc?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#383 » by TeamMan » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:36 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
TeamMan wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:The Athletic mentioned this on their Theis vs Lauri " What to do comparison". I would not read too much into it.

Read on Twitter


Lauri is last in the line headed to the locker room & AK ignores him.

Nice observation!

Watched this video several times, and it appears clear that:

- Vuc and Sato were palling it up together

- Lauri was trailing behind them and looked left out

- and AK was waiting especially to give Vuc some special attention, but ignored Lauri

Makes you wonder if something has already gone down between Lauri's agent and AK that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

Also makes you wonder if AK already has a deal waiting on the table for a Sign-and-Trade.


AK is wearing a mask, so nobody knows if he was speaking or not.

Makes you wonder if he said "great game, Lauri!" before he turned and started talking to Vuc?

Also makes you wonder if he said "Hey Lauri, I'm maxing you out this summer!" before he turned and started talking to Vuc?

Went back and checked the date, and this was after the Hornets game on the 22nd Apr.

In this game Lauri played well, and BD used him extensively as SF, and he also played some PF/Center.

Maybe this was was too much of a surprise for AK and he didn't know what to say to Lauri. :lol:
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#384 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:41 pm

TeamMan wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
TeamMan wrote:Nice observation!

Watched this video several times, and it appears clear that:

- Vuc and Sato were palling it up together

- Lauri was trailing behind them and looked left out

- and AK was waiting especially to give Vuc some special attention, but ignored Lauri

Makes you wonder if something has already gone down between Lauri's agent and AK that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

Also makes you wonder if AK already has a deal waiting on the table for a Sign-and-Trade.


AK is wearing a mask, so nobody knows if he was speaking or not.

Makes you wonder if he said "great game, Lauri!" before he turned and started talking to Vuc?

Also makes you wonder if he said "Hey Lauri, I'm maxing you out this summer!" before he turned and started talking to Vuc?

Went back and checked the date, and this was after the Hornets game on the 22nd Apr.

In this game Lauri played well, and BD used him extensively as SF, and he also played some PF/Center.

Maybe this was was too much of a surprise for AK and he didn't know what to say to Lauri. :lol:


:lol: That's very possible, it's not like AK has much experience saying "great game, Lauri" - and maybe he was just in such a state of shock over Lauri having a great game that it rendered him speechless?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#385 » by Villepoy » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:28 am

The +/- list since the deadline hasn't been updated recently, so I thought I'd take it upon myself:

Troy Brown Jr. +67
Lauri Markkanen +40
Thaddeus Young +12
Coby White -6
Zach LaVine -8
Garrett Temple -20
Ryan Arcidiacono -28
Denzel Valentine -37
Tomas Satoransky -66
Daniel Theis -71
Nikola Vucevic -74
Patrick Williams -111

The validity of +/- has been debated enough earlier, so take it for what it's worth.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#386 » by FranchisePlayer » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:58 pm

Villepoy wrote:The +/- list since the deadline hasn't been updated recently, so I thought I'd take it upon myself:

Troy Brown Jr. +67
Lauri Markkanen +40
Thaddeus Young +12
Coby White -6
Zach LaVine -8
Garrett Temple -20
Ryan Arcidiacono -28
Denzel Valentine -37
Tomas Satoransky -66
Daniel Theis -71
Nikola Vucevic -74
Patrick Williams -111

The validity of +/- has been debated enough earlier, so take it for what it's worth.


You are just begging for some anti-Lauri poster to come and give you 10+ reasons why that stat is worth of zilch.

Maybe his role in the 2nd unit has had an impact to it but his defense has been really good lately. Top echelon of that group so yeah, that pretty much confirms what I see on the court.
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#387 » by Pentele » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:27 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
Villepoy wrote:The +/- list since the deadline hasn't been updated recently, so I thought I'd take it upon myself:

Troy Brown Jr. +67
Lauri Markkanen +40
Thaddeus Young +12
Coby White -6
Zach LaVine -8
Garrett Temple -20
Ryan Arcidiacono -28
Denzel Valentine -37
Tomas Satoransky -66
Daniel Theis -71
Nikola Vucevic -74
Patrick Williams -111

The validity of +/- has been debated enough earlier, so take it for what it's worth.


You are just begging for some anti-Lauri poster to come and give you 10+ reasons why that stat is worth of zilch.

Maybe his role in the 2nd unit has had an impact to it but his defense has been really good lately. Top echelon of that group so yeah, that pretty much confirms what I see on the court.


I think it is or at least should be pretty clear what +/- tells and what it does not tell to us. What I cannot still fully comprehend is that how the current situation is even possible? If someone would now ask me what has happened without me seeing any games, I would probably say that the team has been losing and Brown and Markkanen have probably played very little, and their time on the floor has just matched some rare good strecthes the Bulls have had in a couple games. That might explain Brown, but it does not explain Markkanen who has played a lot more.

One contributing reason could be that those numbers do not, currently, reflect defense as much as they reflect the offensive woes. Although Markkanen has not scored that much himself, maybe his presence on the floor has helped others to score significantly better. Could also be noise (i.e., variance) but maybe he indeed is a very effective floor spacer which reflects on the line-up's offensive numbers. If someone would now pull the best Bulls line-ups from that period, Markkanen should figure in them prominently.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#388 » by meekrab » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:43 pm

Villepoy wrote:The validity of +/- has been debated enough earlier, so take it for what it's worth.

What +/- has told me for the past couple seasons is that the Bulls have a lot of guys who are bad starters but quality bench players. Our starters have consistently had bad +/- and the bench has consistently had better numbers, regardless of which players started. This season, a lot of that has to do with us starting the game playing 5 on 4 because Patrick Williams' role on offense is to stand in the corner and not do anything unless his defender gets lost in traffic.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#389 » by PaKii94 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:40 pm

Lauri's numbers have pretty much rebounded back to beginning of season efficiency minus the volume.

Since the Cleveland win (7 games) he's at 19/7/1 p36 on 49/44 splits, 64%TS, 19% USG. The main change has been his improvement on the defensive end.

Since the deadline, Lauri has the best defensive rating on the team (after TBJ) and the 2nd best offensive rating after Thad (and TBJ but he's small sample size).
He's #2 in net rating (+2.7) after TBJ (+13.8!)
https://go.nba.com/nii0



If you only look at the last 7 games, the numbers look even better. Second to tbj again at +11.5

I think Lauri should get the chance to play next to vuc again. Especially since Thad seems to have fall even deeper off the cliff when it comes to defense and Lauri seems to have improved/putting more effort.

Note I am quoting ON COURT ratings since this is impact from on court minutes. If we look at net on off ratings it would be even more ridiculous. The tanking starting lineup brings down the OFF court values a ton.
Lauri is at +22.2 the past 7 games and +12 since the deadline.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#390 » by ZOMG » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:01 pm

Villepoy wrote:The +/- list since the deadline hasn't been updated recently, so I thought I'd take it upon myself:

Troy Brown Jr. +67
Lauri Markkanen +40
Thaddeus Young +12
Coby White -6
Zach LaVine -8
Garrett Temple -20
Ryan Arcidiacono -28
Denzel Valentine -37
Tomas Satoransky -66
Daniel Theis -71
Nikola Vucevic -74
Patrick Williams -111


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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#391 » by Louri » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:09 pm

To look back.. It's kind of sad that old Bulls FO wanted Lauri to bulk and play C instead of SF/PF. I understand why, but it was still hasty decision.. When Lauri entered to league he was really raw player in terms of playing against bigger and stronger players. He played in Finnish 2nd division against much slower and weaker competition before entering to Arizona. He played against kids there also. It was clear as day light that he didn't have proper techniques etc. to immediately bang in NBA against stronger players. It would take time. Bulls didn't want to wait. They thought that only way to D stronger opponents is to go bigger, instead of staying fast and agile. He got prob stronger, but also his movement looks like 30 years old veteran now. Now that Lauri is used as a SF and I don't see that much difference in his game. This new stiff Lauri stayed in front of RJ Barrett, got stops and has looked comfortable against SF players so far.

When I watch this clip and see Lauri doing coast to coast easily.. that movement looks so much more faster and fluid than now.

;t=15s
"When he’s not shooting a 3P, Lauri is the worst player in the NBA. Kornet’s defense and rebounding looks better. It’s crazy." -MrSparkle
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#392 » by TallDude » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:50 am

I had forget that. One more reason to reset Lauri.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#393 » by PaKii94 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:56 am

Read on Twitter
?s=20


If they end up resting vuc it would be time for Lauri to step up for the last 10 games
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#394 » by ZOMG » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:23 am

PaKii94 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

If they end up resting vuc it would be time for Lauri to step up for the last 10 games


"Right abductor tightess"? That sounds like a Lauri injury. A sign of developing chemistry?

Anyway, we can't start Lauri even if Vuc is out. He can't be featured.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#395 » by CoreyVillains » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:13 pm

I went to the Knicks game and what was very clear watching in person (though also abundantly clear watching on TV too) is that the Bulls playmaking and even just understanding of who and where to get guys shots is atrocious. There were so many stretches that Lauri just didn't even sniff touching the ball because the Bulls guards just could not get into the paint. Weakside defenders can stay closer to their man, there was nothing causing the defense to shift. Lauri may not be a 20ppg guy who can be the focal point of an offense, but I sure as hell would have loved to see him play with a legit PG. Shame we'll probably never get that chance.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#396 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:39 pm

Villepoy wrote:The +/- list since the deadline hasn't been updated recently, so I thought I'd take it upon myself:

Troy Brown Jr. +67
Lauri Markkanen +40
Thaddeus Young +12
Coby White -6
Zach LaVine -8
Garrett Temple -20
Ryan Arcidiacono -28
Denzel Valentine -37
Tomas Satoransky -66
Daniel Theis -71
Nikola Vucevic -74
Patrick Williams -111

The validity of +/- has been debated enough earlier, so take it for what it's worth.

I'm one of the bigger Lauri supporters, but I would never use +/- as an argument in favor of Lauri because the stat is basically useless as far as I'm concerned. Whether he's at the top, middle, or bottom of +/- it means nothing to me. Having said that, I do think it has been observably apparent that in general the team has played better post-trade deadline when Lauri is on the court.

When we make runs, increase our lead, or make a comeback it has usually happened with Lauri on the floor, regardless of whether he's playing a big role in the offense or just standing around camping in the corner. We just seem to play better as a team with him on the court since the trade deadline, and I think that can partially be attributed to his increased effort and effectiveness on defense and his "don't force it" approach on offense. His willingness to move the ball leads to more ball movement and a less stagnant offense which generates better looks for the team even though Lauri isn't necessarily a good passer himself.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#397 » by TallDude » Sat May 1, 2021 9:14 am

GoBlue72391 wrote:
Villepoy wrote:The +/- list since the deadline hasn't been updated recently, so I thought I'd take it upon myself:

Troy Brown Jr. +67
Lauri Markkanen +40
Thaddeus Young +12
Coby White -6
Zach LaVine -8
Garrett Temple -20
Ryan Arcidiacono -28
Denzel Valentine -37
Tomas Satoransky -66
Daniel Theis -71
Nikola Vucevic -74
Patrick Williams -111

The validity of +/- has been debated enough earlier, so take it for what it's worth.

I'm one of the bigger Lauri supporters, but I would never use +/- as an argument in favor of Lauri because the stat is basically useless as far as I'm concerned. Whether he's at the top, middle, or bottom of +/- it means nothing to me. Having said that, I do think it has been observably apparent that in general the team has played better post-trade deadline when Lauri is on the court.

When we make runs, increase our lead, or make a comeback it has usually happened with Lauri on the floor, regardless of whether he's playing a big role in the offense or just standing around camping in the corner. We just seem to play better as a team with him on the court since the trade deadline, and I think that can partially be attributed to his increased effort and effectiveness on defense and his "don't force it" approach on offense. His willingness to move the ball leads to more ball movement and a less stagnant offense which generates better looks for the team even though Lauri isn't necessarily a good passer himself.


I agree with u totally. I look mostly players +/- but u can have game even u are minus and vice versa. But in big pictue teams are looking your impact compare to other players. It is really hard to stay at + players team as bad like Bulls. But good news we bacically need that real PG to work it out. Lauri is use to play still more euroball. He is teach to play unselfish and there are 2 kind of players. Selfish and unselfish. First ones can kill a hole game even they score. But with good pg he can keep game going and not give ball all the time players who court vision is tunnel vision. Ball shoud move fast. It does not matter is it NBA or international basketball. Still same game.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#398 » by TSS » Sun May 2, 2021 8:46 am

This forum still seems to be the best place to discuss Lauri. So here goes.

I've still found the energy to actually watch all Bulls games despite the post deadline fall and in my books things are looking increasingly positive for Lauris future. It has been half a dozen games now where he has been the best defensive big on Bulls roster and it has not been particularly close. Obviously that is not saying very much but he has had assignments to stop Butler, Barrett and Randle and he has done really well against those type of offensive players. His on ball defense has been terrific against high level competition. I am confident Lauri can be used as 4/3 hybrid.

Another area of improvement earlier in the season was his "black holeness" as ColdFish brought up and I tended to agree. He practically always took a shot when he got a touch but that is no longer the case. He is keeping the ball moving rather well in an otherwise stagnant offensive scheme and we do not see many bad shot selections at all. Lauri still does not get many assists but he keeps the offense flowing. Assist numbers are obviously partly depending on the fact the he gets Valentine level touches after deadline but more so because his passes would not necessarily lead to immediate buckets as opposed to just keeping up the movement. If ColdFish can chime in, whether you have gotten similar impression or if it is me looking through Lauri glasses again, that would be appreciated.

I've followed Spurs rather closely after the news on them possibly going for Lauri. Factoring in Lauris improvements as a defensive (on ball especially) player as well as ball movement piece it looks like a perfect situation with Spurs. Spurs are desperate for shooting from 3/4 positions as well as size to defend taller wings ala Tatum. As a franchise they seem to be set very well. They got their starting backcourt in White and Murray locked in at 15 mil / year, rim protecting C in Poeltl at 9 mil and they have larger expiring deals in DeRozan, Gay and Mills. Up and coming (definitely not proven) youngsters in Vassell, Johnson and Walker IV.
Lauri is age wise right there with the rest of the core and brings those exact skills Spurs are in dire need of.

I personally do not think DeRozan fits in for Bulls at all but I guess getting him in S&T would still be better than getting nothing.
If that does not fly, would Patty Mills make any sense in a situation where Bulls fail to sign Lonzo?

The only downside I see on the possible Spurs future, is me not finding the correct forum to frequent on.

/TSS
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#399 » by chefo » Sun May 2, 2021 2:28 pm

I wrote it in the PG thread but here it is:

Lauri is looking like a potentially pretty decent 2-way player. I'm not sure if he's taking pointers from Theis or whatnot, but his defense the last dozen games has been nothing short of good, both helping, but especially man-to-man.

Given that we have zero, nada, zilch, good two way players on the roster currently (Thad has been the closest thing to one, but his D has been progressively falling off a cliff as the season has ground on), I'm getting a little frustrated the way things have turned out, with the Bulls likely losing him for nothing come summer-time.

F-up his rotation role, only for him to, out of nowhere, turn into a good defensive big/wing hybrid. Took away his time and touches, but he still scores at a 60%+ TS, despite him barely touching the ball once a minute past-demotion.

I thought early season Lauri was worth $20M, even with his barely passable defense because of his 19 ppg on 60% + TS. I also thought the FO and Donovan torpedoed his value with the demotion to probably mid-teens, but I'm coming around to coldfish's prediction that somebody will probably lob a $20M offer at him anyway.

Some of these teams with cap space are probably looking at his recent play, especially on D, and must be thinking--"here the Bulls go again being idiots like they've been the last 5+ years. New faces, same old dumbwits. They have a guy that produces when given the chance to, who finally plays above-average D both in space and man-to-man... and they demoted him, despite playing well and destroyed their relationship with him over what? Over 30-year old role player Daniel Theis who may not even be there next year? Over rookie Pat Williams who they all the time in the world to develop? Old man Thad? If we get that 24-year at old $20M per, followed by us giving him 15 shots a game, he may end up giving us 20 per game AND good D. And if we actually develop him some, he may even produce better than that. Given the crap that's this year's FA market... Sure, kid, here's 20 per. Take it to AK."

I'm also frustrated with Lauri because if he had played D all season the way he has recently, he probably doesn't get demoted to begin with, unless the FO and Donovan are just prejudiced, stubborn a-holes. It's all between the ears with him it seems like--when he feels like it, he can board and he can get down and make live miserable for everybody from wings to bullies like AD and Randle. He had shown flashes here and there before--being able to stay in front of Trae, Dame and Morant, being able to play great D on AD and Randle in the mid-post, but he had never before been able to string a full game of good D, let alone a dozen. Which tells me he wasn't trying that hard... in a contract season. I don't believe he just miraculously got it, 20 games before the end of his 4th season. Maybe he did.

What a crapfest that org has been the last 5 years.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#400 » by Hugi Mancura » Sun May 2, 2021 2:38 pm

TSS wrote:I personally do not think DeRozan fits in for Bulls at all but I guess getting him in S&T would still be better than getting nothing.
If that does not fly, would Patty Mills make any sense in a situation where Bulls fail to sign Lonzo?


CBA S&T rules are weird, so I might understand the rules incorrectly.

Don't know if this would be easy to do. S&T for DeRozan would mean you would have to match his current salary, which is 27M and if Lauri would get 15M that would still mean Bulls would have to send 12M to Spurs way.

Also I don't see the reason why Spurs would do this. They have cap room they can use that to sign Lauri or anyone else. Off course option would be getting trade exception, but even then Bulls would have to offer something else with Lauri (Cash example). Getting trade exception would be great, so owner should find some cash from the bottom of his pockets.

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