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Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#781 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon May 24, 2021 8:44 pm

ZOMG wrote:If Markkanen takes the QO after the way he was treated here, he's an idiot and has no self-respect. That is flat out crazy. He'll have absolutely zero guarantee of a starting spot, playing time, shots, touches... you name it. JFC. And the Bulls will have zero incentive to make him look good. He'll be a warm body at the 3pt line, nothing more.

I'm seriously starting to question who makes the decisions, Lauri or his wife.


We will be trying to win games. That is all the incentive needed to play your best players. Please do it Lauri. That would be a huge win for Chicago.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#782 » by bad knees » Mon May 24, 2021 8:46 pm

Lauri as a 3-and-a-little-D role player on the QO? Sounds like a plan. Could see him starting at SF with PWill sliding over to the PF role. Especially if we lose Theis.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#783 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon May 24, 2021 8:46 pm

BullChit wrote:
Swuul wrote:I've been (again) told by a person I believe should be "in the know" Lauri is more and more leaning on taking the QO, unless there is something spectacular happening. Apparently Lauri's agent isn't happy about that, and is trying to convince Lauri to reconsider. Lauri likes the city of Chicago,and Bulls has been his fav team since he was a small kid, so he wants one more shot at Bulls; if that fizzles too, then he at least is free to go next summer.
That would mean that these Lauri threads would continue for another whole season and off season...

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This free agent class sucks so Lauri on a one year would be worth Stop antagonizing users here
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#784 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon May 24, 2021 8:49 pm

Louri wrote:
BullChit wrote:
Swuul wrote:I've been (again) told by a person I believe should be "in the know" Lauri is more and more leaning on taking the QO, unless there is something spectacular happening. Apparently Lauri's agent isn't happy about that, and is trying to convince Lauri to reconsider. Lauri likes the city of Chicago,and Bulls has been his fav team since he was a small kid, so he wants one more shot at Bulls; if that fizzles too, then he at least is free to go next summer.
That would mean that these Lauri threads would continue for another whole season and off season...

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If he takes QO, then there won't be much to talk about Lauri anymore. It means he is ok with who is now and what his place in NBA will be. Bench warmer.


We have a big hole a starting PF. If he can’t beat out Theis or Thad then he isn’t very good to being with.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#785 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon May 24, 2021 8:51 pm

sco wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
Swuul wrote:I've been (again) told by a person I believe should be "in the know" Lauri is more and more leaning on taking the QO, unless there is something spectacular happening. Apparently Lauri's agent isn't happy about that, and is trying to convince Lauri to reconsider. Lauri likes the city of Chicago,and Bulls has been his fav team since he was a small kid, so he wants one more shot at Bulls; if that fizzles too, then he at least is free to go next summer.

I could maybe see it making sense as a calculated risk if he believes he's poised for a breakout season which would then put him in position for even more money as a free agent the following year, but that's just not going to happen in a bench role playing 20ish MPG. To be fair, it looked like he was in the process of a breakout season, or at least a good bounce back season, prior to the trade deadline. He was putting up something like 19 and 7 on good efficiency, which per 36 translated to like 21 and 8, so if he believes he can build off that then I can see it making sense. But again, that's just not going to happen in Chicago, barring Vuch suffering a season ending injury. And even then he still might not get enough minutes if we retain both Thad and Theis.

Even if he and his family love the city, he loves the team, he loves his teammates, and he's been a Bulls fan since he was a kid, leaving long term money on the table in favor of a 1-year $9 million QO just doesn't make any sense. He'd just be delaying the inevitable by one year. What happens after the QO season is up and he just put up averages of like 11 and 4 during a full season coming off the bench? He still wouldn't be in the Bulls plans so he would still have to leave and now he's a year older and his value decreased even more. He went from looking at like $15+ million annually to firmly in MLE territory after taking the QO.

There's zero upside for Lauri to take the QO. Free agency is still over two months away. That's plenty of time for his agent to talk some sense into him. As a Bulls fan however, that would be a great value contract.

I agree. I will say that many foreign players with families like Chicago. I the city has a large number of foreign transplants that make it nice for the families culturally. I might be a little frightened to end up in some "lesser" NBA cities, if I was Lauri's wife.

As for Lauri's situation, I can envision a scenario where the Bulls don't end-up with Theis in FA and Thad after next season. Lauri, under that scenario, could be in a great position if he performs well. I'm not saying it's a given, but it is possible.


Niko eventually quit the NBA because of the cities he had to live in. He loved Chicago. Maybe Lauri feels the same way and is willing to do whatever it takes to try to stay here.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#786 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon May 24, 2021 8:59 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
ZOMG wrote:If Markkanen takes the QO after the way he was treated here, he's an idiot and has no self-respect. That is flat out crazy. He'll have absolutely zero guarantee of a starting spot, playing time, shots, touches... you name it. JFC. And the Bulls will have zero incentive to make him look good. He'll be a warm body at the 3pt line, nothing more.

I'm seriously starting to question who makes the decisions, Lauri or his wife.


Yeah, that'd be equivalent to a Hara-kiri on basketball court. Career down the drains. The idea itself is so stupid it can't be real. Almost as stupid as claiming the Bulls can be a contender with Lavine as their maxed out #1 option.


Your tears over LaVine are delicious. I bet you actually believe he is the reason Lauri’s career trajectory flatlined and you have serious resentment over that. He has everything you thought should be Lauri’s. The fans, the recognition(all-star), the money(max contract on deck).
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#787 » by GoBlue72391 » Mon May 24, 2021 9:31 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Louri wrote:
BullChit wrote:That would mean that these Lauri threads would continue for another whole season and off season...

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If he takes QO, then there won't be much to talk about Lauri anymore. It means he is ok with who is now and what his place in NBA will be. Bench warmer.


We have a big hole a starting PF. If he can’t beat out Theis or Thad then he isn’t very good to being with.

It has less to do with him being able/unable to beat out Theis/Thad for the starting spot, and more to do with management's belief that he's a poor fit next to Vuch. If fit weren't an issue he never would have went to the bench in the first place. I would have liked to have given the Vuch/Lauri pairing more than one game to see if it's feasible duo, but alas they seemed to have had their mind made up before they even completed the trade.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#788 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon May 24, 2021 9:55 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Louri wrote:
If he takes QO, then there won't be much to talk about Lauri anymore. It means he is ok with who is now and what his place in NBA will be. Bench warmer.


We have a big hole a starting PF. If he can’t beat out Theis or Thad then he isn’t very good to being with.

It has less to do with him being able/unable to beat out Theis/Thad for the starting spot, and more to do with management's belief that he's a poor fit next to Vuch. If fit weren't an issue he never would have went to the bench in the first place. I would have liked to have given the Vuch/Lauri pairing more than one game to see if it's feasible duo, but alas they seemed to have had their mind made up before they even completed the trade.


If Lauri was putting all-star numbers fit would not matter. If they believed he could put up say 20/8 on the same high efficiency as a starter next to Vuc he would have been starting and they would been committed to trying to make it work and not giving him away for any first round pick. It has everything to do with how good they think he is and can be. Thad is not a better athlete than Lauri right now. That isn’t why he is a better defender. He is just smarter and/or more dedicated.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#789 » by ZOMG » Tue May 25, 2021 5:51 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
sco wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:I could maybe see it making sense as a calculated risk if he believes he's poised for a breakout season which would then put him in position for even more money as a free agent the following year, but that's just not going to happen in a bench role playing 20ish MPG. To be fair, it looked like he was in the process of a breakout season, or at least a good bounce back season, prior to the trade deadline. He was putting up something like 19 and 7 on good efficiency, which per 36 translated to like 21 and 8, so if he believes he can build off that then I can see it making sense. But again, that's just not going to happen in Chicago, barring Vuch suffering a season ending injury. And even then he still might not get enough minutes if we retain both Thad and Theis.

Even if he and his family love the city, he loves the team, he loves his teammates, and he's been a Bulls fan since he was a kid, leaving long term money on the table in favor of a 1-year $9 million QO just doesn't make any sense. He'd just be delaying the inevitable by one year. What happens after the QO season is up and he just put up averages of like 11 and 4 during a full season coming off the bench? He still wouldn't be in the Bulls plans so he would still have to leave and now he's a year older and his value decreased even more. He went from looking at like $15+ million annually to firmly in MLE territory after taking the QO.

There's zero upside for Lauri to take the QO. Free agency is still over two months away. That's plenty of time for his agent to talk some sense into him. As a Bulls fan however, that would be a great value contract.

I agree. I will say that many foreign players with families like Chicago. I the city has a large number of foreign transplants that make it nice for the families culturally. I might be a little frightened to end up in some "lesser" NBA cities, if I was Lauri's wife.

As for Lauri's situation, I can envision a scenario where the Bulls don't end-up with Theis in FA and Thad after next season. Lauri, under that scenario, could be in a great position if he performs well. I'm not saying it's a given, but it is possible.


Niko eventually quit the NBA because of the cities he had to live in. He loved Chicago. Maybe Lauri feels the same way and is willing to do whatever it takes to try to stay here.


Not that it's especially relevant to this discussion, but Niko quit the NBA because he couldn't deal with being a 3rd option with a very one-dimensional role everywhere he went. He said later in an interview that he hated the NBA's rigid star system, where every single thing was/is aimed at catering to them, from practices to games.

In short, he wanted to be more of an offensive focal point. Obviously he wanted that even more than to play in the NBA.

As for the inevitable Markkanen comparisons, you have to remember that Niko was both older and a big star in Europe before he came over. He'd grown up around high level Euro basketball. Lauri's very different. He's never known that world or aimed to get there. He came to Arizona directly from some awful Finnish amateur league and got his first taste of "stardom" in the US. That's his measuring stick.

The people who keep suggesting Markkanen go "back to Europe" don't understand that he came over as a very inexperienced teenager. Europe, in that basketball sense, doesn't exist for him. At this point, I think Lauri sees himself as an NBA player only.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#790 » by DunkenDunk » Tue May 25, 2021 10:56 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:
FanInTheAttic wrote:
Bulls Post Up Possessions

2017-18:
Portis 138
Lauri 111
RoLo 108
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*CHI&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&SeasonYear=2017-18

2018-19:
RoLo 221
Lauri 92
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*CHI&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&SeasonYear=2018-19

Lauri got plenty of post-up possessions his first two seasons, and the whole world could see he sucks at it. So naturally, coaches aren't going to do it anymore.


This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.


Wanted to reply this old post as I think it has some key points for which I have my own opinion.

I have followed Lauri's games on Arizona and also on Bulls. He came to both to Arizona and Bulls marketed as a 7 footer pick and pop-shooter as that was probably the thing he feeled comfortable playing style for him for his first years as a long but skinny yong guy who has experience from the Europe style game (That Niko also liked when turning down the Utah deal).

And while Lauri was getting points also from the paint, I agree that he also missed a lot of points during his first year from paint because he was often in bad position, got injured and avoided contacts. In paint he was often hesitating and doing misshots as he basically had only a tools. Direct dunk (which often went to rim) or drag'n layup where he avoided contact to defensive players.

He was also a good 3 point shooter but not a miracle maker. One reason for that was propably the 2 year old overstretch injury, second one was propably that he was getting clearly much more muscles to hands and that can lower doing temporarily the hand accuracy.

But now in his 4th year in Bulls the Lauri's post moves for scoring have started actually to look pretty good. In many games he has only had a 2-3 ball possessions on paint but he has looked there much calmer and done good looking points with many different ways without hesitation that was shown up on last years. And I think he has now also enough weigth and muscles for that.

That does not say that he should develope himself as a 250-300 tank type player like Zion, Lebron, Theis or Vuc, instead he should aim to something like a Durant, Robinson type of player as that is more to his body type. (Longer version of Thompson type of shooter)
I think he has now enought muscles so body lifting that would make him slower should be avoided.
(little bit more weight and muscles will come naturally as he gets close to his prime years). Instead I would like to see him doing more like a player how does about 10-15 attempts close to paint with floaters, drives, dunks and 6 feet jump shots and then maybe about 5 3 pointers from pick and rolls.

He should now concentrate more on training time for speed and learning how to position himself on paint to get passes and rebounds more easily. (practices with some skilled just retired paint player veteran would be usefull).
He should also look concentrate for ball dripling exercises (with couple of balls) even thought the Ball handling from 7"1 player wont newer look as smooth as from 6.5 players. (ball needs to travel longer distance between hand and floor...)

Of course needs to maintain and put efforts also to 3 point shots even thought this years was his best on those with little over 40%.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#791 » by the ultimates » Tue May 25, 2021 3:49 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
FanInTheAttic wrote:
So you say that Lauri is used as a 3 point shooter, but he could just post up as much as he likes whenever he wants and the rest of the players and coaches would just follow his game. What do you actually mean when a player is used as 3 point shooter?


Lauri is used as a three-point shooter and floor spacer because that's the only thing he does consistently decently. That's his comfort zone. He goes there because he can't put the ball on the floor and isn't a good passer. I'll say it again. Lauri's lack of skill limits how he's used in and how he plays in the offense. Nobody is telling him not to drive or post up. What other skills does Lauri have that should be utilized in the offense?


Lauri has scored 30 or more points 14 times in the Bulls jersey. In the majority of those games the majority of his points WERE not 3Ps.

Didn't go through the 20+ point games since there are so many of them. Probably 40 or more. When he's getting the ball and is on fire as the saying goes, he's a very versatile scorer. He really doesn't have to resort to only scoring from deep.

You can say it again like 1000 times more and you'd still be wrong. Claiming he's a one-trick pony, a mere three point specialist, is a completely cooked up narrative that some Lauri hater has created and some, like you, so fondly like to repeat ad nauseam. Because he broke all kinds of records in his rookie season knocking down three-pointers?

Do you have some actual data to back up your pompeous claims of him having no other skills than shooting behind the arc? What stats are telling you without a doubt he doesn't have any other skills than scoring deep?


Tell me what other things he offensively does consistently well other than shoot threes? Does he handle the ball well? Does he pass well? This season he averaged one paltry assist per game. Does he screen well? I'll be pompous but I won't be delusional like you thinking he's some versatile underutilized player.

I'll repeat the question I put in this post earlier what other consistent offensive skill does he have other than three-point shooting? Tell me the team that's running offense for and getting a large number of shots and touches for a player like Lauri?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#792 » by MrSparkle » Tue May 25, 2021 4:14 pm

I'm all about a Lauri QO.

Having five 3P shooters on the floor would be a potentially lethal offensive unit. Highly skeptical it could work with that personnel, but that's what a 1y trial is for. Could be different with a real off-season.
Plus for all my ragging on Lauri, I've long maintained that 23-25yo are always on the verge of developing significantly over their rookie contract selves, so it's a total bummer releasing them right as they become competent NBA rotation players.

I'm not eager to ship Lauri out for a bag of peanuts, I just don't want to lock him into a bloated, long contract that would completely ruin this team's cap flexibility, with the risk of him plateau'ing at this mediocre level (or even regressing more). Little harm in a 1y contract outside of rotation minutes, but doesn't he get injured annually anyway?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#793 » by Red8911 » Tue May 25, 2021 4:31 pm

The QO wouldn’t be a bad option for both sides but I think Lauri gets a better offer with more years elsewhere. Also I’m not convinced that Lauri wants to stay here anymore.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#794 » by sco » Tue May 25, 2021 4:51 pm

MrSparkle wrote:I'm all about a Lauri QO.

Having five 3P shooters on the floor would be a potentially lethal offensive unit. Highly skeptical it could work with that personnel, but that's what a 1y trial is for. Could be different with a real off-season.
Plus for all my ragging on Lauri, I've long maintained that 23-25yo are always on the verge of developing significantly over their rookie contract selves, so it's a total bummer releasing them right as they become competent NBA rotation players.

I'm not eager to ship Lauri out for a bag of peanuts, I just don't want to lock him into a bloated, long contract that would completely ruin this team's cap flexibility, with the risk of him plateau'ing at this mediocre level (or even regressing more). Little harm in a 1y contract outside of rotation minutes, but doesn't he get injured annually anyway?

I don't see much in between space on trading him for peanuts or paying him a long-term bloated deal because he's a starting-caliber PF. The market for a top 20-30 PF is probably $13-$16M per year (which is probably a deal he doesn't want to sign because he wants to bet on himself), where that number becomes $18-$22 if you're a GM who thinks he's gonna be between the top 8-15th best PF (which I think is the bloated deal you would mean). That's why the QO is something he's considering.


Red8911 wrote:The QO wouldn’t be a bad option for both sides but I think Lauri gets a better offer with more years elsewhere. Also I’m not convinced that Lauri wants to stay here anymore.

I think Lauri, more than many, has shown that he's a quality of life guy - and he may be getting word that the teams who might be interested in him are the 3rd tier ones (we all know who they are, so I'm not gonna call them out). The QO puts him in the driver's seat next offseason and it's likely Thad is gone after this season and who knows what happens with Theis this offseason. I think Lauri likes AK too.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#795 » by GoBlue72391 » Tue May 25, 2021 5:28 pm

sco wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I'm all about a Lauri QO.

Having five 3P shooters on the floor would be a potentially lethal offensive unit. Highly skeptical it could work with that personnel, but that's what a 1y trial is for. Could be different with a real off-season.
Plus for all my ragging on Lauri, I've long maintained that 23-25yo are always on the verge of developing significantly over their rookie contract selves, so it's a total bummer releasing them right as they become competent NBA rotation players.

I'm not eager to ship Lauri out for a bag of peanuts, I just don't want to lock him into a bloated, long contract that would completely ruin this team's cap flexibility, with the risk of him plateau'ing at this mediocre level (or even regressing more). Little harm in a 1y contract outside of rotation minutes, but doesn't he get injured annually anyway?

I don't see much in between space on trading him for peanuts or paying him a long-term bloated deal because he's a starting-caliber PF. The market for a top 20-30 PF is probably $13-$16M per year (which is probably a deal he doesn't want to sign because he wants to bet on himself), where that number becomes $18-$22 if you're a GM who thinks he's gonna be between the top 8-15th best PF (which I think is the bloated deal you would mean). That's why the QO is something he's considering.


Red8911 wrote:The QO wouldn’t be a bad option for both sides but I think Lauri gets a better offer with more years elsewhere. Also I’m not convinced that Lauri wants to stay here anymore.

I think Lauri, more than many, has shown that he's a quality of life guy - and he may be getting word that the teams who might be interested in him are the 3rd tier ones (we all know who they are, so I'm not gonna call them out). The QO puts him in the driver's seat next offseason and it's likely Thad is gone after this season and who knows what happens with Theis this offseason. I think Lauri likes AK too.
The Spurs aren't a third tier team, they're one of the most elite franchises in the league.

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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#796 » by PaKii94 » Tue May 25, 2021 5:30 pm

Ideally if Lauri takes the QO, Vuc can hopefully be the offensive big man mentor that Lauri hasn't had so far in his career.

Also I think thad would be the odd man out.

____/Lavine/____/PWill/vuc
Coby/tbj/Lauri/Lauri/theis

We need a boganized 3. Maybe temple? I see PWill and Lauri interchangeable between 3/4 slots and they'd get majority of the minutes in those two slots. Temple would start like bogan for the balance. Theis would get backup C and and mop up PF minutes.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#797 » by sco » Tue May 25, 2021 5:37 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
sco wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I'm all about a Lauri QO.

Having five 3P shooters on the floor would be a potentially lethal offensive unit. Highly skeptical it could work with that personnel, but that's what a 1y trial is for. Could be different with a real off-season.
Plus for all my ragging on Lauri, I've long maintained that 23-25yo are always on the verge of developing significantly over their rookie contract selves, so it's a total bummer releasing them right as they become competent NBA rotation players.

I'm not eager to ship Lauri out for a bag of peanuts, I just don't want to lock him into a bloated, long contract that would completely ruin this team's cap flexibility, with the risk of him plateau'ing at this mediocre level (or even regressing more). Little harm in a 1y contract outside of rotation minutes, but doesn't he get injured annually anyway?

I don't see much in between space on trading him for peanuts or paying him a long-term bloated deal because he's a starting-caliber PF. The market for a top 20-30 PF is probably $13-$16M per year (which is probably a deal he doesn't want to sign because he wants to bet on himself), where that number becomes $18-$22 if you're a GM who thinks he's gonna be between the top 8-15th best PF (which I think is the bloated deal you would mean). That's why the QO is something he's considering.


Red8911 wrote:The QO wouldn’t be a bad option for both sides but I think Lauri gets a better offer with more years elsewhere. Also I’m not convinced that Lauri wants to stay here anymore.

I think Lauri, more than many, has shown that he's a quality of life guy - and he may be getting word that the teams who might be interested in him are the 3rd tier ones (we all know who they are, so I'm not gonna call them out). The QO puts him in the driver's seat next offseason and it's likely Thad is gone after this season and who knows what happens with Theis this offseason. I think Lauri likes AK too.
The Spurs aren't a third tier team, they're one of the most elite franchises in the league.

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Sorry - I meant to say third team cities, and I leave that determination to the beholder.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#798 » by madvillian » Tue May 25, 2021 6:02 pm

What sort of trade implications would the QQ entail? Just have to match salaries still? What salary is Lauri likely to even be on at the QO? Not much, right? He'd be insane to take it but who knows.
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I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#799 » by sco » Tue May 25, 2021 6:24 pm

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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#800 » by el_Diablo » Tue May 25, 2021 6:30 pm

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