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You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives?

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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#101 » by Stratmaster » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:21 am

PaKii94 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:Man with every passing game vuc seems more and more overrated. He's a nice offensive piece but he's not worth disassembling the whole team for him especially when you consider the negative he is on defense.
Yes. With every double double he puts up he shows he is overrated.

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Andre Drummond put up double doubles too. Maybe we should have gotten him?!?
Are you comparing the 2 this season?

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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#102 » by PaKii94 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:23 am

Stratmaster wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Yes. With every double double he puts up he shows he is overrated.

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Andre Drummond put up double doubles too. Maybe we should have gotten him?!?
Are you comparing the 2 this season?

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No I'm making the point that double doubles is a useless thing to try to make a point
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#103 » by Stratmaster » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:27 am

I am watching this guy put up 26/16/6 followed by 24/11, and carrying the lowly Bulls to a win over the majestic superstar untouchable Jimmy Butler led Miami Heat on the road.

Then I am reading the comments on this thread; and remembering going through the exact same BS when the Bulls acquired Lavine.

Lavine must be so glad to have another great player on the team Bulks fans can hate on instead of him.

You know who are more overrated than Vucevic? RealGM Bulls fans.

What a pitiful crock of ****.

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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#104 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:12 am

Stratmaster wrote:I am watching this guy put up 26/16/6 followed by 24/11, and carrying the lowly Bulls to a win over the majestic superstar untouchable Jimmy Butler led Miami Heat on the road.

Then I am reading the comments on this thread; and remembering going through the exact same BS when the Bulls acquired Lavine.

Lavine must be so glad to have another great player on the team Bulks fans can hate on instead of him.

You know who are more overrated than Vucevic? RealGM Bulls fans.

What a pitiful crock of ****.

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Some of the worst fans in sports as far as eating our own. Our two all-stars are the two most criticized players on the team.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#105 » by Stratmaster » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:14 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:I am watching this guy put up 26/16/6 followed by 24/11, and carrying the lowly Bulls to a win over the majestic superstar untouchable Jimmy Butler led Miami Heat on the road.

Then I am reading the comments on this thread; and remembering going through the exact same BS when the Bulls acquired Lavine.

Lavine must be so glad to have another great player on the team Bulks fans can hate on instead of him.

You know who are more overrated than Vucevic? RealGM Bulls fans.

What a pitiful crock of ****.

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Some of the worst fans in sports as far as eating our own. Our two all-stars are the two most criticized players on the team.
It is really comical... and infuriating. All at the same time lol

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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#106 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:16 am

PaKii94 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
Andre Drummond put up double doubles too. Maybe we should have gotten him?!?
Are you comparing the 2 this season?

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No I'm making the point that double doubles is a useless thing to try to make a point


Well thankfully he rebounds, posts up, passes, and stretches the floor. Everything I said he brings to the table was on display tonight.

Funny how much better of player Lauri is when he establishes himself in the paint and takes advantage of mismatches, but according to you a big posting up and shooting hook shots is worthless offense.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#107 » by Stratmaster » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:21 am

PaKii94 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
Andre Drummond put up double doubles too. Maybe we should have gotten him?!?
Are you comparing the 2 this season?

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No I'm making the point that double doubles is a useless thing to try to make a point
Ok. How about 20/10's? They don't mean anything either right?

And let me guess. Individual rebounding is meaningless.

So basically your opinion is the only thing that means anything.

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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#108 » by chicago paxsons » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:32 am

Vucevic shoots well, scores in the post, rebounds, and passes well. He just doesn't defend well (or at all). He needs a guy like theis and/or an athletic defensive forward/big to help mitigate that weakness. It's not uncommon to have role players whose strengths are the weaknesses of the team's star players. It's just a matter of finding guys who fit next to our stars (lavine and vucevic).
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes.

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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#109 » by Stratmaster » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:53 am

chicago paxsons wrote:Vucevic shoots well, scores in the post, rebounds, and passes well. He just doesn't defend well (or at all). He needs a guy like theis and/or an athletic defensive forward/big to help mitigate that weakness. It's not uncommon to have role players whose strengths are the weaknesses of the team's star players. It's just a matter of finding guys who fit next to our stars (lavine and vucevic).
Stop making posts based in reality and using logic. They don't go over well here.

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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#110 » by TheSuzerain » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:48 pm

KAT is going to get traded in the next 12 months for a package we could have surpassed, and AK's humiliation will be complete.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#111 » by Devinpo » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:59 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:I am watching this guy put up 26/16/6 followed by 24/11, and carrying the lowly Bulls to a win over the majestic superstar untouchable Jimmy Butler led Miami Heat on the road.

Then I am reading the comments on this thread; and remembering going through the exact same BS when the Bulls acquired Lavine.

Lavine must be so glad to have another great player on the team Bulks fans can hate on instead of him.

You know who are more overrated than Vucevic? RealGM Bulls fans.

What a pitiful crock of ****.

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Some of the worst fans in sports as far as eating our own. Our two all-stars are the two most criticized players on the team.


We finally got 2 legit all stars and people are complaining after half a season. We barely had any time to practice and Zach has been out. I know we want results ASAP but cmon now be realistic. I bet next year with better pieces that actually fit next to them both we will be a top 4 seed. Long as healthy and we get some chemistry we will be a force. People will judge this comment but people also wanted Zach gone before this year so let’s wait and see…
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#112 » by Leslie Forman » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:12 pm

Devinpo wrote:We finally got 2 legit all stars and people are complaining after half a season.

"Legit?" What does that even mean? I would think having two "legit all stars" means there doesn't have to be so much talk about pieces that "fit" around them, if they're so legit.

Jimmy Butler was seen as a low end All-Star, even here on this very board. Yet you put pieces that don't "fit" at all around him, and he still drags their asses to .500+, a level which this team still has a lot of work to reach.

And with two first round picks off the table for trades, a weak free agent class this summer (no notable cap space anyways), and a looming gigantic overpay on the horizon for Zach taking up a max slot in '22, getting those amazing "fits" (elite switchable defenders who can also help on offense, i.e. guys literally every single team wants and always throw gigantic deals at) is damn near impossible.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#113 » by TheJordanRule » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:35 pm

Stratmaster wrote:I am watching this guy put up 26/16/6 followed by 24/11, and carrying the lowly Bulls to a win over the majestic superstar untouchable Jimmy Butler led Miami Heat on the road.

Then I am reading the comments on this thread; and remembering going through the exact same BS when the Bulls acquired Lavine.

Lavine must be so glad to have another great player on the team Bulks fans can hate on instead of him.

You know who are more overrated than Vucevic? RealGM Bulls fans.

What a pitiful crock of ****.

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Wish I could agree with you. Lavine had much bigger questions to address when he first came here. He was fresh off an ACL tear and, after a year in which he only appeared in 47 games with the Wolves, Zach played 24 games for us, offering production that objectively placed him as an overall a net negative on both ends. That version of Zach had far more legitimate concerns than our current concerns about Vuc, which are more about the overall direction of the team than whether Vuc can play or not. There's no question that Vuc is a net positive on our roster.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#114 » by Am2626 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:52 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
Devinpo wrote:We finally got 2 legit all stars and people are complaining after half a season.

"Legit?" What does that even mean? I would think having two "legit all stars" means there doesn't have to be so much talk about pieces that "fit" around them, if they're so legit.

Jimmy Butler was seen as a low end All-Star, even here on this very board. Yet you put pieces that don't "fit" at all around him, and he still drags their asses to .500+, a level which this team still has a lot of work to reach.

And with two first round picks off the table for trades, a weak free agent class this summer (no notable cap space anyways), and a looming gigantic overpay on the horizon for Zach taking up a max slot in '22, getting those amazing "fits" (elite switchable defenders who can also help on offense, i.e. guys literally every single team wants and always throw gigantic deals at) is damn near impossible.


Ok Mr. GM. What do you propose AK should have done instead of using the protected draft picks, expiring OPJ and undersized WCJ to get Vuc? You talk about having those picks available for a future trade. Who would you want to target? What would you have done differently? It’s easy playing arm chair quarterback and making blanket statements but give us a plan with actual moves.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#115 » by TheJordanRule » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:01 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
Devinpo wrote:We finally got 2 legit all stars and people are complaining after half a season.

"Legit?" What does that even mean? I would think having two "legit all stars" means there doesn't have to be so much talk about pieces that "fit" around them, if they're so legit.

Jimmy Butler was seen as a low end All-Star, even here on this very board. Yet you put pieces that don't "fit" at all around him, and he still drags their asses to .500+, a level which this team still has a lot of work to reach.

And with two first round picks off the table for trades, a weak free agent class this summer (no notable cap space anyways), and a looming gigantic overpay on the horizon for Zach taking up a max slot in '22, getting those amazing "fits" (elite switchable defenders who can also help on offense, i.e. guys literally every single team wants and always throw gigantic deals at) is damn near impossible.


I believe you've been guided by the piss poor actions and beliefs by the last front office to come to these crazy conclusions. This probably isn't even you right now unless you happen to be John Paxson's parrot. John would frequently bump the false narrative about the greatness of "flexibility"-- which to most Bulls fans meant "we gotta forget about free agency, at least we signed a couple decent bums ERR I mean vet minimums off the scrap heap for half their market value". The days of a scarcity mentality are over. This new front office is on the "if you build it, they will come" path, and that's something worth buying into. Expect a quality starter in free agency this summer. There are going to be free agents out there who see the potential of playing with Zach and Vuc in one of the NBA's largest markets.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#116 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:06 pm

Am2626 wrote:Ok Mr. GM. What do you propose AK should have done instead of using the protected draft picks, expiring OPJ and undersized WCJ to get Vuc? You talk about having those picks available for a future trade. Who would you want to target? What would you have done differently? It’s easy playing arm chair quarterback and making blanket statements but give us a plan with actual moves.


Trade Thad for a 1st.
Trade Lauri for the most I can get even if it is seconds.
Trade Zach in the off-season for a massive package or at the deadline if a massive package was available.
Trade anyone else who nets any meaningful value.

Start a rebuild with a ton of assets and try to get a strong foundation.

I know they weren't going to do that, ownership almost certainly selected AK because he wasn't going to rebuild, but in three years, we'll wish they took the above steps instead of taking the steps they did.

Ultimately, you have to ask yourself where can this rebuild go? The answer, 1st round exit for two years before you blow it up. Why would you bother doing that? You could have stood pat and likely had the same results and more upside.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#117 » by Leslie Forman » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:06 pm

Am2626 wrote:Ok Mr. GM. What do you propose AK should have done instead of using the protected draft picks, expiring OPJ and undersized WCJ to get Vuc? You talk about having those picks available for a future trade. Who would you want to target? What would you have done differently? It’s easy playing arm chair quarterback and making blanket statements but give us a plan with actual moves.

I've said it plenty on here so I won't bother elaborating. Do a Presti.

TheJordanRule wrote: This new front office is on the "if you build it, they will come" path, and that's something worth buying into. Expect a quality starter in free agency this summer. There are going to be free agents out there who see the potential of playing with Zach and Vuc in one of the NBA's largest markets.

Yeah can't wait for that Dennis Schroder/Lonzo Ball overpay. So exciting.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#118 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:09 pm

TheJordanRule wrote:I believe you've been guided by the piss poor actions and beliefs by the last front office to come to these crazy conclusions. This probably isn't even you right now unless you happen to be John Paxson's parrot. John would frequently bump the false narrative about the greatness of "flexibility"-- which to most Bulls fans meant "we gotta forget about free agency, at least we signed a couple decent bums ERR I mean vet minimums off the scrap heap for half their market value". The days of a scarcity mentality are over. This new front office is on the "if you build it, they will come" path, and that's something worth buying into. Expect a quality starter in free agency this summer. There are going to be free agents out there who see the potential of playing with Zach and Vuc in one of the NBA's largest markets.


If that happens, then I will stand corrected, but there are two problems:

1: There are no good FAs next season
2: We can't even offer a max if there were
3: We don't really have trade assets to pay for a real star in trade
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#119 » by Am2626 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:17 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Am2626 wrote:Ok Mr. GM. What do you propose AK should have done instead of using the protected draft picks, expiring OPJ and undersized WCJ to get Vuc? You talk about having those picks available for a future trade. Who would you want to target? What would you have done differently? It’s easy playing arm chair quarterback and making blanket statements but give us a plan with actual moves.


Trade Thad for a 1st.
Trade Lauri for the most I can get even if it is seconds.
Trade Zach in the off-season for a massive package or at the deadline if a massive package was available.
Trade anyone else who nets any meaningful value.

Start a rebuild with a ton of assets and try to get a strong foundation.

I know they weren't going to do that, ownership almost certainly selected AK because he wasn't going to rebuild, but in three years, we'll wish they took the above steps instead of taking the steps they did.

Ultimately, you have to ask yourself where can this rebuild go? The answer, 1st round exit for two years before you blow it up. Why would you bother doing that? You could have stood pat and likely had the same results and more upside.


You do realize that doing this means that the last 5 years have been a complete waste. You are basically saying that this team has no building blocks. That would make the criticism of GarPax even more warranted.
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Re: You don't like the Vuc? What were the alternatives? 

Post#120 » by dougthonus » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:50 pm

Am2626 wrote:You do realize that doing this means that the last 5 years have been a complete waste.


Sunk cost mentality. So what? You make the best decision for today. Not a decision to try to prove something you did five years ago wasn't a mistake.

You are basically saying that this team has no building blocks.


Not necessarily. I'm saying given the timing, context, talents, and ages, that the building blocks here aren't going to come together correctly in the way you need them to. LaVine is the guy I'm most conflicted on, because he might become a true alpha star, so I wouldn't be totally against having rebuilt around Zach, but I don't think Zach has patience for that and woudl have demanded out, and I don't think we could build around Zach in our time frame.

That would make the criticism of GarPax even more warranted.


We already fired them. What more criticism do you want to throw their way? Why would you build on their base if you thought they were bad enough to fire? I don't know that it means they deserve more criticism, but even if it does, so what? Why would you care about that or find it relevant in any way?
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