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What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd

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What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#1 » by BullChit » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:16 pm

It's been obvious since the season began that the Coby and Zach backcourt won't work long term, but why is that really?

Even without a true point gaurd the bulls have had multiple games of 28-35 assists.

To me it's about balance and to balance defence at the 1 (and the 4 for that matter) and this is not my preference ultimately it's more about me seeing what AKME did with the Vuc trade and their commitment to Zach. What fits that commitment.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#2 » by thedarkstark » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:25 pm

Being a point guard isn't about getting assists, it's being a floor general, getting guys into their sets, spotting mismatches, and VALUING THE BASKETBALL.

Nobody on the Bulls roster does these things aside from Thad, which is precisely why the offense was humming it was being run through him the obvious problem is he's not nearly a good enough ball handler to bring the ball up the court meaning you're going to miss a lot of fast break opportunities.

Aside from general PG skills, being a good defender and able to knock down open shots is immensely important into todays NBA.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#3 » by weneeda2guard » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:30 pm

The pg is needed to control the offense get the ball up court quicker get coby lavine vuc pwill etc in fast break opportunities in hopes to get easier baskets. We are 14th in the league in fast break points and although we get nice assist totals its done quite a bit in half court sets. We never seem to get easy baskets especially going to the rim. All these young legs should be running a lot more than we do. A pg would help that. Quicker offense would put defenses on its heels and not allow teams to set up their defense nearly every possession.

We also need a pg that can always find the cutters and guys going backdoor. This part coby and lavine nearly always struggle with. Sato just no good at it at all.

One of the reason I'm not so sold on lonzo ball is because we also could use a pg that can break a defense down. Although ball does get the ball up court and finds the cutters shooters etc well he never really breaks a defense down and kicks out.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#4 » by FriedRise » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:30 pm

If we can get 28-35 assists consistently and limit turnovers to league average, our team would look a whole lot different. I need somebody who can get us into our offense without coughing the ball so much. If they play defense and can shoot it some, all the better.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#5 » by bearadonisdna » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:41 pm

yesterday cobe has 31 points on 61% fgs :lol: :nod:

yesterday had more turnovers than assist but thats ok.
basically for a pointguard, the high usage player needs to be threatening, and talented enough to at least galvanize the backcourt.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#6 » by chefo » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:06 pm

It depends on how you plan to use Vuc.

If it's going to be re-worked to how we used Thad--then you need a 3&D gunner who's ok with launching 7 3s a game and be able to shoot them at 38%+.

If we're going to run the O we're currently running, we need somebody who can keep it balanced so that it's not Zach and Vuc taking ISO and P&R turns that get us into big holes, because everybody else sits still, picking their noses. Don't know who that might be. The Paul's and Conley's of the NBA are few and far between, usually old and very expensive.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#7 » by sco » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:11 pm

IMO, we need a high efficiency (low volume) shooter, low turn-over, good-vision/passer but who plays very good man defense. Basically, Marcus Smart.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#8 » by Axl Rose » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:33 am

Well, everything. Maybe doesn't need to be an elite scorer, but still needs to be a threat and have a reliable 3. Needs to know how to run an offense and have good vision, needs to be a good perimeter defender.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#9 » by donaldtrump_00 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:06 pm

In the bulls case they need to keep Zach off the pg role. He's a great scorer but he turns the ball over way to much. So that said ball handling is first. I don't mean bring the ball up then pass it. We need a true ball handling pg. 2nd he needs to be able to read a defense. Knows when to break up a coaches play. They sometimes run the system to much and passing to players who the defense knows aren't looking to score.

3rd the pg needs to be able to shoot and drive. And last but most importantly Defense. Those are all-star level types. So how do we land one. I sad to say that pg doesn't exist in free agency. So we gotta settle for one that is at least decent at most of those things. Lonzo ball will cost to much but he's attainable. Lacks a few of the things I named. But his defense will help us and seems to love shooting 3s. I'm sure he can at least get players in position to score. Not a great ball handler.

But I'm watching devonte Graham a lot. He can be cheaper than ball or scroder. But knowing the bulls they'll be stuck with T.J. McConnell. Because there going to be cheap and continue developing Coby. Where just needing of resigning players like theis and even Troy Brown Jr. Markkanen will walk. Thad also comes back. Sato gone, Archie gone, temple ( don't know yet) depends on how cheap he's willing to come back for. I'd personally let him go and go after Kris Dunn. Hawks have no room for him plus he's played no games this season. He's not on there long term list anymore. They'll let him go probably.

But to think big it feels like devonte Graham is our best pg where going to get and the McConnell being our least favorite one.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#10 » by DuckIII » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:05 pm

The Bulls need:

1. Valuing the basketball.

2. Being able to handle intense ball pressure.

3. Vision and a priority interest in distribution at all three levels: open court, from the perimeter (finding cutters and post feeds) and interior passing off penetration.

4. Reliable three point shooting.

5. Defense.

I’ll leave it to you to figure out who fits that.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#11 » by MGB8 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:14 pm

Talent.

Starting level talent, or better.

I mean, a certain skillset within the PG position skillset would be great.

But right now the Bulls have only 2 players in their entire roster who have proven - at this point in their careers - to be proven, consistent, starting level NBA players. Both of those guys are also (borderline) NBA all-stars, but that's besides the point. They are the only 2 players who would start on most of the other NBA teams in the league.

Coby, Pat, Lauri... too inconsistent, possibly relating to their relative youth. Troy Brown, too, if you want to include him. Sato, Theis, Thad, Temple - rotation level players at this point in their careers and/or always (though Thad was once a starting level player).

What the Bulls need is more talented players, and/or for their young players to step up. Playing the "fit" game is to a large extent putting the cart before the horse.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#12 » by ChettheJet » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:26 pm

Mostly I think we need a floor leader. That could be a pass first guy, that could be a high scoring guy but whoever it is has to take control of the tempo and have the patience for people to get were they belong for a play. Zach should be able to take the ball and try to make his own play but the PG needs to take the ball so Zach isn't the only one making a play for 4/5 possessions because then the other 3 guys are standing around. The PG needs to be able to get the ball to Vuc in the post, which isn't always his pass but he needs to swing the ball to the side so somebody else can feed the big guy. Williams actually seems to be able to get the ball into the post. It's also getting someone else in the post to create spacing when Vuc slips out past the line.

Coby is the scoring guy but not the passer, Satoransky is slightly below average in both, not a great passer not high scorer but capable at both which would make for a good backup and maybe good to be teamed with Coby off the bench.

I don't know which comes first because there are so few guaranteed to return. During the off season does Billy define what everyone's role will be, who starts at which forward spot across from Williams for one and does the second year 20 year old get more responsibility as a scorer? And does that determine who they get as a PG? OR do they wait to see who they can get at PG to see how he shapes the roles of the forwards? Because Zach and Vuc are going to do what they do.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#13 » by sco » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:53 pm

donaldtrump_00 wrote:In the bulls case they need to keep Zach off the pg role. He's a great scorer but he turns the ball over way to much. So that said ball handling is first. I don't mean bring the ball up then pass it. We need a true ball handling pg. 2nd he needs to be able to read a defense. Knows when to break up a coaches play. They sometimes run the system to much and passing to players who the defense knows aren't looking to score.

3rd the pg needs to be able to shoot and drive. And last but most importantly Defense. Those are all-star level types. So how do we land one. I sad to say that pg doesn't exist in free agency. So we gotta settle for one that is at least decent at most of those things. Lonzo ball will cost to much but he's attainable. Lacks a few of the things I named. But his defense will help us and seems to love shooting 3s. I'm sure he can at least get players in position to score. Not a great ball handler.

But I'm watching devonte Graham a lot. He can be cheaper than ball or scroder. But knowing the bulls they'll be stuck with T.J. McConnell. Because there going to be cheap and continue developing Coby. Where just needing of resigning players like theis and even Troy Brown Jr. Markkanen will walk. Thad also comes back. Sato gone, Archie gone, temple ( don't know yet) depends on how cheap he's willing to come back for. I'd personally let him go and go after Kris Dunn. Hawks have no room for him plus he's played no games this season. He's not on there long term list anymore. They'll let him go probably.

But to think big it feels like devonte Graham is our best pg where going to get and the McConnell being our least favorite one.

If we got McConnell, it would REALLY help our defense. Dude is at or near the top of the NBA in steals and is about as tough a defender as your gonna find at PG. His A/T is 6.6/1.9 which is very good. He's not a scorer, but is efficient in his shot although not a 3pt shooter. And he should be gettable, cheap. Not my first choice, but better than many others.

I still prefer Ball, Rose and Schroder if we aren't giving up Theis or Thad to get them.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#14 » by FriedRise » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:02 pm

We basically need Chris Paul to come here and turn the team around. He did it with OKC and Phoenix, and despite being 35, he's still an all star caliber player - for 2 years in a row now in the West.

And yes, he costs 44M but that's what you have to pay for an all star point guard who can handle the ball, make plays, run the team's offense, be the coach on the floor, score, shoot, and defend. You're not gonna get all that for 20M per.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#15 » by waffle » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:06 pm

- great handles
- classic PG awareness
- ability to challenge opposing PG's/be a pest around the arc

A prototypical 1990's PG would work for me.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#16 » by Almost Retired » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:09 am

DuckIII wrote:The Bulls need:

1. Valuing the basketball.

2. Being able to handle intense ball pressure.

3. Vision and a priority interest in distribution at all three levels: open court, from the perimeter (finding cutters and post feeds) and interior passing off penetration.

4. Reliable three point shooting.

5. Defense.

I’ll leave it to you to figure out who fits that.



Davion Mitchell.......I'd trade Lauri or Coby for a pick in this Draft that would get us Davion.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#17 » by nekorajo » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:03 am

Today's version of Coby.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#18 » by MrSparkle » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:13 am

Magic Johnson?
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#19 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:59 am

Pay kyle kowry big money for a year or 2?
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#20 » by DunkenDunk » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:08 am

I agree that best game from Coby with Temple as a guards today. He strugled a little in the beginning in his own attempts because tried to pass the ball but that helped the team in total and that counts most. And at some point he got also his own shots for just to remind that being a pass first guy does not mean not scoring at all. Team win, a solid game from all.

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