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What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd

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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#21 » by ThreeMileAllan » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:12 am

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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#22 » by MalagaBulls » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:12 am

DuckIII wrote:The Bulls need:

1. Valuing the basketball.

2. Being able to handle intense ball pressure.

3. Vision and a priority interest in distribution at all three levels: open court, from the perimeter (finding cutters and post feeds) and interior passing off penetration.

4. Reliable three point shooting.

5. Defense.

I’ll leave it to you to figure out who fits that.


I think a PG who could be on the market and basically ticks all those boxes is Fred Vanvleet. He is a very good P&R defender, can shoot 3´s at a decent clip, and distributes quite well. The sticking point would be if Toronto would give up on their core so quickly. I was on their board a few weeks ago and their posters seem to think they need a rebuild.

So maybe trade Thad for a 1st on draft night if we can find a willing taker (Knicks come to mind) and use that 1st to send to the Raptors plus Coby plus salary filler (Aminu).
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#23 » by sco » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:43 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:
DuckIII wrote:The Bulls need:

1. Valuing the basketball.

2. Being able to handle intense ball pressure.

3. Vision and a priority interest in distribution at all three levels: open court, from the perimeter (finding cutters and post feeds) and interior passing off penetration.

4. Reliable three point shooting.

5. Defense.

I’ll leave it to you to figure out who fits that.


I think a PG who could be on the market and basically ticks all those boxes is Fred Vanvleet. He is a very good P&R defender, can shoot 3´s at a decent clip, and distributes quite well. The sticking point would be if Toronto would give up on their core so quickly. I was on their board a few weeks ago and their posters seem to think they need a rebuild.

So maybe trade Thad for a 1st on draft night if we can find a willing taker (Knicks come to mind) and use that 1st to send to the Raptors plus Coby plus salary filler (Aminu).

I love FVV, NFW are the Raps giving up on FVV. Second, we'd need 2 1sts for him and don't have near the assets to make that work.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#24 » by sco » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:45 pm

I guess a legitimate question is whether we could package Thad, Coby and PWill to get a 3rd star?
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#25 » by DuckIII » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:15 pm

sco wrote:I guess a legitimate question is whether we could package Thad, Coby and PWill to get a 3rd star?


What level of “stardom” are you talking about here?
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#26 » by sco » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:18 pm

DuckIII wrote:
sco wrote:I guess a legitimate question is whether we could package Thad, Coby and PWill to get a 3rd star?


What level of “stardom” are you talking about here?

Probably a near-allstar level like Grant (who would be the perfect fit IMO). Might need a 3rd team involved to give DET value for Thad.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#27 » by DuckIII » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:02 pm

sco wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
sco wrote:I guess a legitimate question is whether we could package Thad, Coby and PWill to get a 3rd star?


What level of “stardom” are you talking about here?

Probably a near-allstar level like Grant (who would be the perfect fit IMO). Might need a 3rd team involved to give DET value for Thad.


I guess a Grant level guy. Maybe. Thad is of no use to Detroit, despite Coby’s recent play he’s had a pretty darn bad season, and Williams probably has decent “upside” value but teams have to be thinking less of him now that he’s ghosted so many games. I don’t see much “heat” for a star with this trade package.

And if you could get Grant, would you? He’s had one break out year, it’s not even that significant of a break out, and then you are locked in with Lavine, Vuc and Grant as your core. That’s not very competitive.

The unfortunate consequence of AK’s moves is that we really, really just need to hope we get lucky as hell with one of our own guys or draft picks turning into a star player. It’s almost the only way this team will ever become a meaningful top-4 seed type conference contender.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#28 » by Tetlak » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:06 pm

Grant has come crashing back to earth.

As for the actual topic at hand, I think our point guard does actually need some ability to break down the defense or create shots for himself/others. Lonzo is a nice player, but even if he were to be "unleashed" a little more, he doesn't really have the ability or gravity to do those things. He's basically a really good ball mover, 3 and D guy.

The poster who mentioned FVV is on to something, but I can't see how we have the assets to pull that off. Lonzo for Lauri is probably realistically what we're looking at.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#29 » by sco » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:51 pm

Tetlak wrote:Grant has come crashing back to earth.

As for the actual topic at hand, I think our point guard does actually need some ability to break down the defense or create shots for himself/others. Lonzo is a nice player, but even if he were to be "unleashed" a little more, he doesn't really have the ability or gravity to do those things. He's basically a really good ball mover, 3 and D guy.

The poster who mentioned FVV is on to something, but I can't see how we have the assets to pull that off. Lonzo for Lauri is probably realistically what we're looking at.

I think our shot at Ball is maybe 25% - which is worth pursuing, but not likely. I will say that if the Knicks "win" Ball, I'd try for Rose as our "consolation prize". A Rose/Sato PG combo would be an upgrade over this season's Coby mistake. Coby could be the backup SG only.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#30 » by jump » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:52 pm

There must be a good PG in the Euro Leagues. I would imagine that with the weak FA market this summer, AK has people scouring other world leagues for talent.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#31 » by meekrab » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:21 pm

The number one glaringly obvious thing is the ability to smoothly complete a post entry pass. So many times last night Coby and Arci couldn't (or wouldn't) even throw the pass and we wasted 1/4 of the shot clock on Vuc fighting for position for nothing. Wasted effort from your star hurts worse than anything. If Vuc is going to work on this team we can't be relying on Sato and Thad as the only guys who can get reliably him the ball on the block.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#32 » by TheFinishSniper » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:47 pm

Giving maybe Lowry 2 years pay wouldnt be bad option. Not only as vet PG but also as mentor for Coby. I highly doubt Van Fleet would be half a player he is without Lowry. But depends on price. Not mention maximizing your window around Vuc deal. We are somewhat ideally settled to give bigger deal while we have Vuc and Lavine on bargain deals.

Like I said how much he asks is question. And no doubt he will get serious offers this summer.

I am just so sick watching our guards last 5 years trying to be pretend be starting PG.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#33 » by MalagaBulls » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:50 pm

Tetlak wrote:Grant has come crashing back to earth.

As for the actual topic at hand, I think our point guard does actually need some ability to break down the defense or create shots for himself/others. Lonzo is a nice player, but even if he were to be "unleashed" a little more, he doesn't really have the ability or gravity to do those things. He's basically a really good ball mover, 3 and D guy.

The poster who mentioned FVV is on to something, but I can't see how we have the assets to pull that off. Lonzo for Lauri is probably realistically what we're looking at.


I mentioned this because there were Raptors posters who came here after their game declaring a rebuild was needed. As to the assets needed it would probably be at least 1 FRP & 1 quality asset. That's why I hope we could trade Thad on draft night to the Knicks for the higher of their FRP's to dangle to Tor for FVV plus maybe Coby if he finishes on a tear.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#34 » by MGB8 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:57 pm

jump wrote:There must be a good PG in the Euro Leagues. I would imagine that with the weak FA market this summer, AK has people scouring other world leagues for talent.


The PG position is currently lacking in the NBA. Plenty of teams don't have one "true-starter" level PG, of those that do - many are over the age of 30. Meanwhile, it's rare for teams to have more than one such player. Of those that do:

Brooklyn has Harden, Kyrie, and Dinwiddie ... but Dinwiddie was more "passable" than anything... and that was pre-injury.

The T-Wolves have Russell and 30 year old Rubio - he may be the most "getable" non FA.

Charlotte has Rozier and Graham (and Ball), with Rozier having his best season. He or Graham might be getable, but at what cost? And, if its Graham, how much better is he than a more developed Coby?

Cleveland has Sexton and Garland - neither are gettable.

Denver has Murray (now hurt) and Morris - all indications are that Morris is not available.

Sacramento has Fox and Haliburton - not available.

Toronto has Lowry and VanVleet - Lowry will be a FA but is clearly declining, would need to be overpaid and traded for.

Portland has Lillard and McCollum (who can play point) --- I doubt that McCullom is available for what the Bulls can offer. They also have Simmons, but he has had a kind of step back, and may be more just a bench gunner).

San Antonio has Murray and Derrick White - with White somewhat more of a "much better version of Jerian Grant."

No one else really has a guy on their roster that I'd be confident can start at point guard. Brunson may not start for Dallas because they use Luka as a PG but he's their only stereo-typical "PG" type player who might be starting caliber. Indiana has McConnell and Holiday behind Brogdon... but I'm not sure either guy is an NBA starter. Memphis has Tyus Jones and DeAnthony Melton (the latter much more a SG) - don't think Jones is a starter, not sure Melton is a PG as opposed to a Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams type bench gunner. Ditto Shake Milton on the Sixers. Magic have Fultz (if he's ever healthy) and Cole Anthony --- but I'm not sold on Anthony yet. Ditto Nunn who is sometimes ahead, sometimes behind Dragic (with an unclear PG situation in Miami... de facto Jimmy?).
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#35 » by MalagaBulls » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:51 pm

The problem unfortunately is that AK gambled and it may backfire terribly. Too early to tell but if we are in "Win Now" mode next season then you have to throw all your eggs in one basket to get a borderline AS type to be your playmaker, creator, & 3 point threat. Brogdon & FVV fit that but will cost a premium of assets we don't have. FVV also is a very good to excellent perimeter defender with pesky & active hands.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#36 » by Tetlak » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:52 pm

I'm personally a big fan of Malcolm Brogdon. I wonder if he would be attainable.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#37 » by Rose2Boozer » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:04 pm

Low turnovers and buckets.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#38 » by drosestruts » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:16 pm

I think a lot of posters have named and covered a lot of the players that would be great fits like Lowry, Brogdon, etc.

If we're going more under the radar, which is what I think may actually be available to us. Does someone like Kendrick Nunn make sense?

Not a big assists guy, but limits his turnovers and has really come alive here in April - 16 points per game, 64.9% TS%, a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio.

He's a restricted free agent this summer, but I'm not sure how strongly Miami will look to retain him. We could maybe pry him away with an offer sheet they don't want to match, or look acquire him via trade? Maybe Miami would like Young or Sato?
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#39 » by DJhitek » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:15 pm

Someone like Brogdon would be a very good fit IMO, but I don’t think there is any avenue to get him.
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Re: What do the Bulls need from a starting Point Gaurd 

Post#40 » by MalagaBulls » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:05 am

Another option could be Kyle Lowry. He will be 35/36 this next year but he might still have enough in the tank for 2 more seasons. He won't be cheap as the Sixers & Knicks will be after him methinks. It will take at least 2/50-55M to have him even think about it. But he ticks a lot of boxes.

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