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PG: New Best Win of the Season

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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#101 » by CobyWhite0 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:07 pm

Ice Man wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.


I always get lost on cap space math. Perhaps you can help me. According to basketball-reference, the Heat are obliged to pay $78 million in contracts next year to -

Butler
Bam
Herro
Precious
Okpala
Ryan Anderson (ouch)

The 2022 salary cap is reported to be $112 million, that would seem to leave $34 million for the Heat to spend, if it renounces its player options on Iggy and Dragic. Whereas the figure you quoted from Realgm is for $26.9 million. I don't understand the discrepancy.

(But of course I don't understand any of this cap stuff. The Nets currently have a $166 million payroll, which of course is far, far above the theoretical salary cap.)


They only have 5 players under contract, so you have to add 7 cap holds ($925,258 each, almost $6.5 million total) to their team salary until the roster spot is filled by an actual player.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#102 » by CobyWhite0 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:24 pm

bad knees wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:Projected Cap Space (from RealGM) https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

New York 63,856,680

San Antonio 47,862,458

Oklahoma City 43,617,008

Dallas 34,458,606

Miami 26,950,162

Cleveland 23,915,849

Toronto 22,423,993

Charlotte 21,220,235

We are the only other team with any projected cap space.
____________________________

Knicks already have an All-Star PF, it's the one position they definitely have covered heading into the summer. I can't see why they would want to pay Lauri big dollars to come off the bench.

Spurs are definitely a possibility, most of their PF minutes have been going to DeRozan and Gay, and they're both free agents this summer. Poeltl would help cover Lauri's defensive deficiencies, and vice versa. But the Spurs have never been a team to spend big $$$ in free agency, one has to wonder if they'd be willing to offer Lauri enough money that the Bulls wouldn't match

OKC has nothing but kids (and Al Horford), they certainly could offer Lauri a huge contract. But they have so many draft picks, I don't know if they'd be interested in paying a lot of money for Lauri when they'll have all kinds of players on rookie deals

Dallas already has KP, I can't imagine they'll be interested in another injury-prone 7-footer who doesn't have a back to the basket post game.

The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.

Cleveland only has $24 million in cap space if they let Jarrett Allen walk. Even if they can re-sign him for $10 million next season (which IMO won't happen, he'll get more than that), that only leaves them about $14 million in cap space. That's a 4 year, $60 million contract, the Bulls might match that and worry about trading him later.

The Raptors have $71 million tied up in Siakam, Van Fleet, OG and Flynn. They have Siakam and OG locking down the forward positions, I can't imagine they'd spend a huge chunk of their cap space on another PF.

Charlotte has PJ Washington and Bridges manning the PF spot, and they can only create cap space by letting Zeller and Biyombo - their only 2 centers - walk. I can't see how Lauri is a fit for the Hornets.
____________________________

Any other team that wants Lauri would have to do it via a sign-and-trade.

Once you get into the details of each team with cap space, it doesn't look to me like Lauri is going to have more than 2 or 3 teams trying to sign him as a free agent.


On another topic, New York, Dallas and Charlotte are teams that are likely to be interested in Theis.


That's a great point, I think all 3 of those teams would be much more interested in Theis than Lauri. Theis fills a need for those teams, Lauri doesn't.

And I would add Toronto to that list, they could use a center if they clear cap space, because they'll have to let Baynes and Boucher walk to get cap space.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#103 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:11 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:I watched the end of it but I had it on the whole time I was watching the Knicks/Suns, which was a great game also. Bulls played really well. They are 4-3 without Lavine and have their two best wins of the season also. Hopefully when he comes back they can keep moving the ball and playing better defense like they did tonight.



How crazy is it that the Knicks/Suns is actually a good game to watch. I’m one of those people who like seeing the Knicks being relevant watching them flounder got old for me a while ago. The NBA is more fun when the Knicks are good imho. Not that they are actually good yet but you know what I mean.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#104 » by johnnyvann840 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:44 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:I watched the end of it but I had it on the whole time I was watching the Knicks/Suns, which was a great game also. Bulls played really well. They are 4-3 without Lavine and have their two best wins of the season also. Hopefully when he comes back they can keep moving the ball and playing better defense like they did tonight.



How crazy is it that the Knicks/Suns is actually a good game to watch. I’m one of those people who like seeing the Knicks being relevant watching them flounder got old for me a while ago. The NBA is more fun when the Knicks are good imho. Not that they are actually good yet but you know what I mean.


The Knicks ARE actually good. Really good. I've been watching most of their games during this 9-1 run and they are for real. D Rose and Taj are a huge part of it which is what I love about it. And obviously Thibs. But that team grinds and plays hard every night. J Randle, who had a rare bad game last night is the real deal too. They could do some serious damage when the playoffs come around because they play the kind of ball that succeeds in the playoffs.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#105 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:07 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:I watched the end of it but I had it on the whole time I was watching the Knicks/Suns, which was a great game also. Bulls played really well. They are 4-3 without Lavine and have their two best wins of the season also. Hopefully when he comes back they can keep moving the ball and playing better defense like they did tonight.



How crazy is it that the Knicks/Suns is actually a good game to watch. I’m one of those people who like seeing the Knicks being relevant watching them flounder got old for me a while ago. The NBA is more fun when the Knicks are good imho. Not that they are actually good yet but you know what I mean.


The Knicks ARE actually good. Really good. I've been watching most of their games during this 9-1 run and they are for real. D Rose and Taj are a huge part of it which is what I love about it. And obviously Thibs. But that team grinds and plays hard every night. J Randle, who had a rare bad game last night is the real deal too. They could do some serious damage when the playoffs come around because they play the kind of ball that succeeds in the playoffs.


Knicks have no chance against a healthy Nets or 76ers team. Scrappiness gets exposed in the playoffs just like our scrappy MVP Rose led Bulls couldn’t hang with the Heat and when it mattered. So 2nd exit at best assuming health for everyone.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#106 » by SfBull » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:20 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:Projected Cap Space (from RealGM) https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

New York 63,856,680

San Antonio 47,862,458

Oklahoma City 43,617,008

Dallas 34,458,606

Miami 26,950,162

Cleveland 23,915,849

Toronto 22,423,993

Charlotte 21,220,235

We are the only other team with any projected cap space.
____________________________

Knicks already have an All-Star PF, it's the one position they definitely have covered heading into the summer. I can't see why they would want to pay Lauri big dollars to come off the bench.

Spurs are definitely a possibility, most of their PF minutes have been going to DeRozan and Gay, and they're both free agents this summer. Poeltl would help cover Lauri's defensive deficiencies, and vice versa. But the Spurs have never been a team to spend big $$$ in free agency, one has to wonder if they'd be willing to offer Lauri enough money that the Bulls wouldn't match

OKC has nothing but kids (and Al Horford), they certainly could offer Lauri a huge contract. But they have so many draft picks, I don't know if they'd be interested in paying a lot of money for Lauri when they'll have all kinds of players on rookie deals

Dallas already has KP, I can't imagine they'll be interested in another injury-prone 7-footer who doesn't have a back to the basket post game.

The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.

Cleveland only has $24 million in cap space if they let Jarrett Allen walk. Even if they can re-sign him for $10 million next season (which IMO won't happen, he'll get more than that), that only leaves them about $14 million in cap space. That's a 4 year, $60 million contract, the Bulls might match that and worry about trading him later.

The Raptors have $71 million tied up in Siakam, Van Fleet, OG and Flynn. They have Siakam and OG locking down the forward positions, I can't imagine they'd spend a huge chunk of their cap space on another PF.

Charlotte has PJ Washington and Bridges manning the PF spot, and they can only create cap space by letting Zeller and Biyombo - their only 2 centers - walk. I can't see how Lauri is a fit for the Hornets.
____________________________

Any other team that wants Lauri would have to do it via a sign-and-trade.

Once you get into the details of each team with cap space, it doesn't look to me like Lauri is going to have more than 2 or 3 teams trying to sign him as a free agent.

Not sure how Lauri will attract huge offers as RFA not starting for the Bulls.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#107 » by johnnyvann840 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:55 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

How crazy is it that the Knicks/Suns is actually a good game to watch. I’m one of those people who like seeing the Knicks being relevant watching them flounder got old for me a while ago. The NBA is more fun when the Knicks are good imho. Not that they are actually good yet but you know what I mean.


The Knicks ARE actually good. Really good. I've been watching most of their games during this 9-1 run and they are for real. D Rose and Taj are a huge part of it which is what I love about it. And obviously Thibs. But that team grinds and plays hard every night. J Randle, who had a rare bad game last night is the real deal too. They could do some serious damage when the playoffs come around because they play the kind of ball that succeeds in the playoffs.


Knicks have no chance against a healthy Nets or 76ers team. Scrappiness gets exposed in the playoffs just like our scrappy MVP Rose led Bulls couldn’t hang with the Heat and when it mattered. So 2nd exit at best assuming health for everyone.


We'll find out. I disagree. the Bulls back then got exposed because all you had to do was trap D Rose because we had no relief valve for him. No other viable secondary ball handlers. The Knicks have plenty of guards and even Randle can handle the ball well. They can beat you a lot of different ways. They move the ball around extremely well and most importantly, they defend relentlessly.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#108 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:19 am

johnnyvann840 wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:I watched the end of it but I had it on the whole time I was watching the Knicks/Suns, which was a great game also. Bulls played really well. They are 4-3 without Lavine and have their two best wins of the season also. Hopefully when he comes back they can keep moving the ball and playing better defense like they did tonight.



How crazy is it that the Knicks/Suns is actually a good game to watch. I’m one of those people who like seeing the Knicks being relevant watching them flounder got old for me a while ago. The NBA is more fun when the Knicks are good imho. Not that they are actually good yet but you know what I mean.


The Knicks ARE actually good. Really good. I've been watching most of their games during this 9-1 run and they are for real. D Rose and Taj are a huge part of it which is what I love about it. And obviously Thibs. But that team grinds and plays hard every night. J Randle, who had a rare bad game last night is the real deal too. They could do some serious damage when the playoffs come around because they play the kind of ball that succeeds in the playoffs.


I haven't watched any Knicks games during their 9-game winning streak - but if we judge those 9 games using the same standards that are applied to Bulls wins, their streak is pretty meaningless.

Memphis - an actual win over a current WC playoff team. They're 1/2 game ahead of the 10th spot, but a quality win nonetheless.

Raptors - 12th in the East behind the Bulls, meaningless win

Lakers - no LBJ or AD, meaningless win

Pelicans - Lotto team, meaningless win

Mavericks - an actual quality win over the #6 seed in the West

Pelicans - Lotto team, meaningless win

Charlotte - No Lonzo, no Hayward, meaningless win

Hawks - ATL was up by 11 with under 2 minutes left in the 3rd, but then Young got hurt and the Knicks came back to win in OT. No Trae, meaningless win

Raptors - 12th in the East behind the Bulls, meaningless win

We'll know much more about the Knicks after their next 10 games - they get us at home tomorrow in a game they'll certainly be favored to win, but then they head out West for 6 games:

HOU
MEM
DEN
PHO
LAC
LAL

Then they close at home vs 3 playoff teams - Spurs, Hornets (with Lonzo back), Celtics.

Personally, I think the Knicks are two levels (or one really big level) below BKN, PHI and MIL. If they can finish 5-5 over their final 10, that 5-5 would probably be more impressive than their 9-1 in their last 10 vs mostly the dregs of the league.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#109 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:16 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:
bad knees wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:Projected Cap Space (from RealGM) https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

New York 63,856,680

San Antonio 47,862,458

Oklahoma City 43,617,008

Dallas 34,458,606

Miami 26,950,162

Cleveland 23,915,849

Toronto 22,423,993

Charlotte 21,220,235

We are the only other team with any projected cap space.
____________________________

Knicks already have an All-Star PF, it's the one position they definitely have covered heading into the summer. I can't see why they would want to pay Lauri big dollars to come off the bench.

Spurs are definitely a possibility, most of their PF minutes have been going to DeRozan and Gay, and they're both free agents this summer. Poeltl would help cover Lauri's defensive deficiencies, and vice versa. But the Spurs have never been a team to spend big $$$ in free agency, one has to wonder if they'd be willing to offer Lauri enough money that the Bulls wouldn't match

OKC has nothing but kids (and Al Horford), they certainly could offer Lauri a huge contract. But they have so many draft picks, I don't know if they'd be interested in paying a lot of money for Lauri when they'll have all kinds of players on rookie deals

Dallas already has KP, I can't imagine they'll be interested in another injury-prone 7-footer who doesn't have a back to the basket post game.

The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.

Cleveland only has $24 million in cap space if they let Jarrett Allen walk. Even if they can re-sign him for $10 million next season (which IMO won't happen, he'll get more than that), that only leaves them about $14 million in cap space. That's a 4 year, $60 million contract, the Bulls might match that and worry about trading him later.

The Raptors have $71 million tied up in Siakam, Van Fleet, OG and Flynn. They have Siakam and OG locking down the forward positions, I can't imagine they'd spend a huge chunk of their cap space on another PF.

Charlotte has PJ Washington and Bridges manning the PF spot, and they can only create cap space by letting Zeller and Biyombo - their only 2 centers - walk. I can't see how Lauri is a fit for the Hornets.
____________________________

Any other team that wants Lauri would have to do it via a sign-and-trade.

Once you get into the details of each team with cap space, it doesn't look to me like Lauri is going to have more than 2 or 3 teams trying to sign him as a free agent.


On another topic, New York, Dallas and Charlotte are teams that are likely to be interested in Theis.


That's a great point, I think all 3 of those teams would be much more interested in Theis than Lauri. Theis fills a need for those teams, Lauri doesn't.

And I would add Toronto to that list, they could use a center if they clear cap space, because they'll have to let Baynes and Boucher walk to get cap space.


People just refuse to get it into their heads that efficient shooting/scoring is the premium skill in the modern NBA. Much more so that (defensive) rebounding, defense or rim running.

That alone makes Lauri more valuable to a bunch of teams than an undersized 5 like Theis who can't shoot from the outside.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#110 » by ZOMG » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:24 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:Projected Cap Space (from RealGM) https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

New York 63,856,680

San Antonio 47,862,458

Oklahoma City 43,617,008

Dallas 34,458,606

Miami 26,950,162

Cleveland 23,915,849

Toronto 22,423,993

Charlotte 21,220,235

We are the only other team with any projected cap space.
____________________________

Knicks already have an All-Star PF, it's the one position they definitely have covered heading into the summer. I can't see why they would want to pay Lauri big dollars to come off the bench.

Spurs are definitely a possibility, most of their PF minutes have been going to DeRozan and Gay, and they're both free agents this summer. Poeltl would help cover Lauri's defensive deficiencies, and vice versa. But the Spurs have never been a team to spend big $$$ in free agency, one has to wonder if they'd be willing to offer Lauri enough money that the Bulls wouldn't match

OKC has nothing but kids (and Al Horford), they certainly could offer Lauri a huge contract. But they have so many draft picks, I don't know if they'd be interested in paying a lot of money for Lauri when they'll have all kinds of players on rookie deals

Dallas already has KP, I can't imagine they'll be interested in another injury-prone 7-footer who doesn't have a back to the basket post game.

The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.

Cleveland only has $24 million in cap space if they let Jarrett Allen walk. Even if they can re-sign him for $10 million next season (which IMO won't happen, he'll get more than that), that only leaves them about $14 million in cap space. That's a 4 year, $60 million contract, the Bulls might match that and worry about trading him later.

The Raptors have $71 million tied up in Siakam, Van Fleet, OG and Flynn. They have Siakam and OG locking down the forward positions, I can't imagine they'd spend a huge chunk of their cap space on another PF.

Charlotte has PJ Washington and Bridges manning the PF spot, and they can only create cap space by letting Zeller and Biyombo - their only 2 centers - walk. I can't see how Lauri is a fit for the Hornets.
____________________________

Any other team that wants Lauri would have to do it via a sign-and-trade.

Once you get into the details of each team with cap space, it doesn't look to me like Lauri is going to have more than 2 or 3 teams trying to sign him as a free agent.


Lauri is not injury prone. Yes, he gets injured sometimes like everyone else in the league. But compared to Porzingis, he's an iron man.

Durant has missed like 67 games this season and nobody bats an eyelid, let alone calls him injury prone. Better just to accept that this stuff doesn't factor into teams' decisions on who to pay and who not.

What's more... you think Dallas wants a big who has a "back to the basket" game? :lol: So that's why they have dudes like KP, Maxi Kleber and Nicolo Melli? They have no use for guys who clog the lane with post-ups, preventing Luka from driving.

Markkanen would be perfect for them. He'd be an instant improvement over someone like Melli, a 30 year old "shooter" who's shooting 30% from the perimeter.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#111 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:53 pm

ZOMG wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
bad knees wrote:
On another topic, New York, Dallas and Charlotte are teams that are likely to be interested in Theis.


That's a great point, I think all 3 of those teams would be much more interested in Theis than Lauri. Theis fills a need for those teams, Lauri doesn't.

And I would add Toronto to that list, they could use a center if they clear cap space, because they'll have to let Baynes and Boucher walk to get cap space.


People just refuse to get it into their heads that [b]efficient shooting/scoring is the premium skill in the modern NBA.[/b] Much more so that (defensive) rebounding, defense or rim running.

That alone makes Lauri more valuable to a bunch of teams than an undersized 5 like Theis who can't shoot from the outside.


This season:
Theis .615 TS%, 15.2 PER
Lauri .614 TS%, 15.1 PER

Career:
Theis .622 TS%, 16.6 PER
Lauri .564 TS%, 15.6 PER

I think most teams will go with the more efficient scorer when he's also the better defensive rebounder, defender and rim runner.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#112 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:43 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
That's a great point, I think all 3 of those teams would be much more interested in Theis than Lauri. Theis fills a need for those teams, Lauri doesn't.

And I would add Toronto to that list, they could use a center if they clear cap space, because they'll have to let Baynes and Boucher walk to get cap space.


People just refuse to get it into their heads that [b]efficient shooting/scoring is the premium skill in the modern NBA.[/b] Much more so that (defensive) rebounding, defense or rim running.

That alone makes Lauri more valuable to a bunch of teams than an undersized 5 like Theis who can't shoot from the outside.


This season:
Theis .615 TS%, 15.2 PER
Lauri .614 TS%, 15.1 PER

Career:
Theis .622 TS%, 16.6 PER
Lauri .564 TS%, 15.6 PER

I think most teams will go with the more efficient scorer when he's also the better defensive rebounder, defender and rim runner.

You know that's a misleading and bogus comparison, so why even make it? Is your agenda that important to you?
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#113 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:22 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
People just refuse to get it into their heads that [b]efficient shooting/scoring is the premium skill in the modern NBA.[/b] Much more so that (defensive) rebounding, defense or rim running.

That alone makes Lauri more valuable to a bunch of teams than an undersized 5 like Theis who can't shoot from the outside.


This season:
Theis .615 TS%, 15.2 PER
Lauri .614 TS%, 15.1 PER

Career:
Theis .622 TS%, 16.6 PER
Lauri .564 TS%, 15.6 PER

I think most teams will go with the more efficient scorer when he's also the better defensive rebounder, defender and rim runner.

You know that's a misleading and bogus comparison, so why even make it? Is your agenda that important to you?


Misleading and bogus? No, it's actually 100% true. It's their actual, real, factual shooting percentages.

"Theis who can't shoot from the outside." - Now THAT'S misleading and bogus. It's such a bold faced lie, it almost borders on trolling.

Call me crazy, but I think the best way to compare shooters is by their shooting percentages.

I'm not sure how Lauri's fans are going to spin this, but Theis is literally a better shooter from EVERYWHERE on the floor but behind the arc.

FG% by distance

This season:

0-3 Lauri .689, Theis .769
3-10 Lauri .534, Theis .582
10-16 Lauri .231, Theis .569
16-3P Lauri .000, Theis .588
3P Lauri .394, Theis .316

Career:

0-3 Lauri .657, Theis .746
3-10 Lauri .409, Theis .464
10-16 Lauri .326, Theis .512
16-3P Lauri .342, Theis .457
3P Lauri .363, Theis .333

So please explain to me how Lauri is a better shooter than Theis "who can't shoot from the outside"?

Lauri is a better 3pt shooter than Theis, AND THAT IS ALL. Theis is so good shooting from everywhere else that he has the higher true shooting percentage. That's why Theis scores more efficiently than Lauri.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#114 » by GoBlue72391 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:47 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
This season:
Theis .615 TS%, 15.2 PER
Lauri .614 TS%, 15.1 PER

Career:
Theis .622 TS%, 16.6 PER
Lauri .564 TS%, 15.6 PER

I think most teams will go with the more efficient scorer when he's also the better defensive rebounder, defender and rim runner.

You know that's a misleading and bogus comparison, so why even make it? Is your agenda that important to you?


Misleading and bogus? No, it's actually 100% true. It's their actual, real, factual shooting percentages.

"Theis who can't shoot from the outside." - Now THAT'S misleading and bogus. It's such a bold faced lie, it almost borders on trolling.

Call me crazy, but I think the best way to compare shooters is by their shooting percentages.

I'm not sure how Lauri's fans are going to spin this, but Theis is literally a better shooter from EVERYWHERE on the floor but behind the arc.

FG% by distance

This season:

0-3 Lauri .689, Theis .769
3-10 Lauri .534, Theis .582
10-16 Lauri .231, Theis .569
16-3P Lauri .000, Theis .588
3P Lauri .394, Theis .316

Career:

0-3 Lauri .657, Theis .746
3-10 Lauri .409, Theis .464
10-16 Lauri .326, Theis .512
16-3P Lauri .342, Theis .457
3P Lauri .363, Theis .333

So please explain to me how Lauri is a better shooter than Theis "who can't shoot from the outside"?

Lauri is a better 3pt shooter than Theis, AND THAT IS ALL. Theis is so good shooting from everywhere else that he has the higher true shooting percentage. That's why Theis scores more efficiently than Lauri.
I'm aware of that, but that doesn't make it any less misleading and bogus. You do realize something can be factually true while also being misleading, right? Do you need me to explain to you why it's misleading? Because I will, but I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're either severely lacking in basketball common sense, which I doubt, or you have a very obvious agenda and you're being intentionally obtuse to prop up your bogus argument that Theis is the superior scorer. I've seen you make a few other cherry picked comparisons lacking any context, so maybe this is just your thing.

Comparing players strictly by their shooting percentages is surface level analysis and lacks any kind of context. Tony Snell is having a 50/50/100 season, so he is literally a better shooter than Zach from EVERYWHERE on the floor. By your logic, that's a valid comparison.

There's no spin needed, you're just intentionally leaving out the different types of shots Lauri takes that Theis doesn't and ignoring the different degrees of difficulty of both players' shots.

86% of Theis' shots inside the arc are assisted this season and that number is 80% for his career. His average shot distance this season is 12.9 feet and 10.6 for his career. We don't run any plays for him and defenses don't worry about him or game plan against him. He's a rim running, garbage man, hustle player who gets opportunistic buckets consisting primarily of dunks off dumpoffs, lobs, put backs, etc. And yeah, he knocks down the occasional mid and 3, strictly of the spot up catch and shoot variety.

71% of Lauri's shots inside the arc are assisted this season and that number is 59% for his career. His average shot distance is 15.9 feet this season and 15.3 for his career. Prior to the trade we ran plays for Lauri, defenses had to be aware of him, and game plan and make adjustments to limit the quality of his looks. He was literally our 2nd option until not too long ago while Theis is not an offensive option at all, he's purely an opportunistic scorer.

Sure Lauri shoots a lot of spot up catch and shoot 3s, especially now that he's been marginalized after the trade, but he's also capable of shooting 3s after running off screens, he puts the ball on the floor and drives to the basket, he handles the ball on the break for drives, etc. Theis is not capable of shooting those kinds of shots with any kind of consistency, while Lauri is capable of shooting all the types of shots Theis takes.

Lauri's shot profile is more diverse and difficult than Theis'. This is relative only in comparison to a garbage man like Theis and is obviously not true in comparison to someone like Zach. Of course Theis' percentages are higher than Lauri's; he gets easier shots. Duh. He's supposed to have better percentages. If anything, the fact that their percentages are so close despite the difference in the degree of difficulty isn't something to brag about.

Claiming Theis is a better player than Lauri is a valid argument, but claiming he's a better scorer/shooter is not.

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CobyWhite0
Senior
Posts: 559
And1: 419
Joined: Dec 28, 2020
 

Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#115 » by CobyWhite0 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:26 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:You know that's a misleading and bogus comparison, so why even make it? Is your agenda that important to you?


Misleading and bogus? No, it's actually 100% true. It's their actual, real, factual shooting percentages.

"Theis who can't shoot from the outside." - Now THAT'S misleading and bogus. It's such a bold faced lie, it almost borders on trolling.

Call me crazy, but I think the best way to compare shooters is by their shooting percentages.

I'm not sure how Lauri's fans are going to spin this, but Theis is literally a better shooter from EVERYWHERE on the floor but behind the arc.

FG% by distance

This season:

0-3 Lauri .689, Theis .769
3-10 Lauri .534, Theis .582
10-16 Lauri .231, Theis .569
16-3P Lauri .000, Theis .588
3P Lauri .394, Theis .316

Career:

0-3 Lauri .657, Theis .746
3-10 Lauri .409, Theis .464
10-16 Lauri .326, Theis .512
16-3P Lauri .342, Theis .457
3P Lauri .363, Theis .333

So please explain to me how Lauri is a better shooter than Theis "who can't shoot from the outside"?

Lauri is a better 3pt shooter than Theis, AND THAT IS ALL. Theis is so good shooting from everywhere else that he has the higher true shooting percentage. That's why Theis scores more efficiently than Lauri.
I'm aware of that, but that doesn't make it any less misleading and bogus. You do realize something can be factually true while also being misleading, right? Do you need me to explain to you why it's misleading? Because I will, but I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're either severely lacking in basketball common sense, which I doubt, or you have a very obvious agenda and you're being intentionally obtuse to prop up your bogus argument that Theis is the superior scorer. I've seen you make a few other cherry picked comparisons lacking any context, so maybe this is just your thing.

Comparing players strictly by their shooting percentages is surface level analysis and lacks any kind of context. Tony Snell is having a 50/50/100 season, so he is literally a better shooter than Zach from EVERYWHERE on the floor. By your logic, that's a valid comparison.

There's no spin needed, you're just intentionally leaving out the different types of shots Lauri takes that Theis doesn't and ignoring the different degrees of difficulty of both players' shots.

86% of Theis' shots inside the arc are assisted this season and that number is 80% for his career. His average shot distance this season is 12.9 feet and 10.6 for his career. We don't run any plays for him and defenses don't worry about him or game plan against him. He's a rim running, garbage man, hustle player who gets opportunistic buckets consisting primarily of dunks off dumpoffs, lobs, put backs, etc. And yeah, he knocks down the occasional mid and 3, strictly of the spot up catch and shoot variety.

71% of Lauri's shots inside the arc are assisted this season and that number is 59% for his career. His average shot distance is 15.9 feet this season and 15.3 for his career. Prior to the trade we ran plays for Lauri, defenses had to be aware of him, and game plan and make adjustments to limit the quality of his looks. He was literally our 2nd option until not too long ago while Theis is not an offensive option at all, he's purely an opportunistic scorer.

Sure Lauri shoots a lot of spot up catch and shoot 3s, especially now that he's been marginalized after the trade, but he's also capable of shooting 3s after running off screens, he puts the ball on the floor and drives to the basket, he handles the ball on the break for drives, etc. Theis is not capable of shooting those kinds of shots with any kind of consistency, while Lauri is capable of shooting all the types of shots Theis takes.

Lauri's shot profile is more diverse and difficult than Theis'. This is relative only in comparison to a garbage man like Theis and is obviously not true in comparison to someone like Zach. Of course Theis' percentages are higher than Lauri's; he gets easier shots. Duh. He's supposed to have better percentages. If anything, the fact that their percentages are so close despite the difference in the degree of difficulty isn't something to brag about.

Claiming Theis is a better player than Lauri is a valid argument, but claiming he's a better scorer/shooter is not.

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I will give you credit, IMO this is the new #1 over-the-top Lauri Excuse post I've seen yet.

Theis shoots MORE 2-pointers per 100 possessions than Lauri does, how are those easier shots? Theis take MORE shots from between 10 feet and the 3pt line, how are those "garbage" buckets?

I think the only thing that will top this is the inevitable "Lauri is actually more offensively talented than Michael Jeffrey Jordan, but MJ was a ball hog who took a massive number of shots, that's why he scored more."
GoBlue72391
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,826
And1: 1,500
Joined: Oct 26, 2009
     

Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#116 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:44 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
Misleading and bogus? No, it's actually 100% true. It's their actual, real, factual shooting percentages.

"Theis who can't shoot from the outside." - Now THAT'S misleading and bogus. It's such a bold faced lie, it almost borders on trolling.

Call me crazy, but I think the best way to compare shooters is by their shooting percentages.

I'm not sure how Lauri's fans are going to spin this, but Theis is literally a better shooter from EVERYWHERE on the floor but behind the arc.

FG% by distance

This season:

0-3 Lauri .689, Theis .769
3-10 Lauri .534, Theis .582
10-16 Lauri .231, Theis .569
16-3P Lauri .000, Theis .588
3P Lauri .394, Theis .316

Career:

0-3 Lauri .657, Theis .746
3-10 Lauri .409, Theis .464
10-16 Lauri .326, Theis .512
16-3P Lauri .342, Theis .457
3P Lauri .363, Theis .333

So please explain to me how Lauri is a better shooter than Theis "who can't shoot from the outside"?

Lauri is a better 3pt shooter than Theis, AND THAT IS ALL. Theis is so good shooting from everywhere else that he has the higher true shooting percentage. That's why Theis scores more efficiently than Lauri.
I'm aware of that, but that doesn't make it any less misleading and bogus. You do realize something can be factually true while also being misleading, right? Do you need me to explain to you why it's misleading? Because I will, but I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're either severely lacking in basketball common sense, which I doubt, or you have a very obvious agenda and you're being intentionally obtuse to prop up your bogus argument that Theis is the superior scorer. I've seen you make a few other cherry picked comparisons lacking any context, so maybe this is just your thing.

Comparing players strictly by their shooting percentages is surface level analysis and lacks any kind of context. Tony Snell is having a 50/50/100 season, so he is literally a better shooter than Zach from EVERYWHERE on the floor. By your logic, that's a valid comparison.

There's no spin needed, you're just intentionally leaving out the different types of shots Lauri takes that Theis doesn't and ignoring the different degrees of difficulty of both players' shots.

86% of Theis' shots inside the arc are assisted this season and that number is 80% for his career. His average shot distance this season is 12.9 feet and 10.6 for his career. We don't run any plays for him and defenses don't worry about him or game plan against him. He's a rim running, garbage man, hustle player who gets opportunistic buckets consisting primarily of dunks off dumpoffs, lobs, put backs, etc. And yeah, he knocks down the occasional mid and 3, strictly of the spot up catch and shoot variety.

71% of Lauri's shots inside the arc are assisted this season and that number is 59% for his career. His average shot distance is 15.9 feet this season and 15.3 for his career. Prior to the trade we ran plays for Lauri, defenses had to be aware of him, and game plan and make adjustments to limit the quality of his looks. He was literally our 2nd option until not too long ago while Theis is not an offensive option at all, he's purely an opportunistic scorer.

Sure Lauri shoots a lot of spot up catch and shoot 3s, especially now that he's been marginalized after the trade, but he's also capable of shooting 3s after running off screens, he puts the ball on the floor and drives to the basket, he handles the ball on the break for drives, etc. Theis is not capable of shooting those kinds of shots with any kind of consistency, while Lauri is capable of shooting all the types of shots Theis takes.

Lauri's shot profile is more diverse and difficult than Theis'. This is relative only in comparison to a garbage man like Theis and is obviously not true in comparison to someone like Zach. Of course Theis' percentages are higher than Lauri's; he gets easier shots. Duh. He's supposed to have better percentages. If anything, the fact that their percentages are so close despite the difference in the degree of difficulty isn't something to brag about.

Claiming Theis is a better player than Lauri is a valid argument, but claiming he's a better scorer/shooter is not.

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I will give you credit, IMO this is the new #1 over-the-top Lauri Excuse post I've seen yet.

Theis shoots MORE 2-pointers per 100 possessions than Lauri does, how are those easier shots? Theis take MORE shots from between 10 feet and the 3pt line, how are those "garbage" buckets?

I think the only thing that will top this is the inevitable "Lauri is actually more offensively talented than Michael Jeffrey Jordan, but MJ was a ball hog who took a massive number of shots, that's why he scored more."
As far as I'm concerned this is you admitting you're a troll. Brushing off valid points as "the #1 most over the top Lauri excuse" and going off on some ridiculous Jordan analogy with absolutely no attempt to refute anything I said. Embarrassing.

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