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PG: New Best Win of the Season

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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#81 » by Jvaughn » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:30 pm

kodo wrote:Vuc & Theis got all the well deserved props, but Temple has another underrated defensive game. There were some screens were he just teleported through them and didn't lose a step on his man.


If there's one thing Coby works on this summer, he needs to stay attached to the hip of Temple and Troy Brown Jr. and learn how to navigate those screens. Those two rarely call for switches or get lost on screens. Coby is literally a magnet when it comes to this part of the game. Often ends up in a bear hug with the defender. If he can fix this part of his game, it would be a huge gain.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#82 » by ChettheJet » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:35 pm

This game was won in the 1st quarter. They were only down 4 and it was a two possession game. When adjustments were made by both teams on both ends of the court the Bulls didn't have to go into it desperation mode and scramble to cut into a 16 point deficit .

It was mentioned in the newspaper that Herro, Oladipo and Nunn didn't play but if they had then there were fewer minutes in both games for Robinson, Ariza, Vincent and Dragic so who's to say the outcome would have been different.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#83 » by Fastbrk4brkfast » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:45 pm

Jvaughn wrote:
kodo wrote:Vuc & Theis got all the well deserved props, but Temple has another underrated defensive game. There were some screens were he just teleported through them and didn't lose a step on his man.


If there's one thing Coby works on this summer, he needs to stay attached to the hip of Temple and Troy Brown Jr. and learn how to navigate those screens. Those two rarely call for switches or get lost on screens. Coby is literally a magnet when it comes to this part of the game. Often ends up in a bear hug with the defender. If he can fix this part of his game, it would be a huge gain.


Makes sense. He's the fastest so he slams into screens the hardest.

And he needs to eliminate those bad fouls. I honestly think I'd prefer it if he just never jumped on defense ever.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#84 » by mtron32 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:48 pm

Ice Man wrote:The Bulls played well, but I don't see how that's a particularly great win. The Heat's supporting cast is Houston level, nothing but corpses and never wases. It had Max Strus and Gabe Vincent on the court down the stretch.

At any rate, Vuce delivered again -- he's very consistent -- and Coby continued to be clutch down the stretch. When he shoots an open 3 in the 4th quarter, or drives to the rim, I have a very high degree of confidence.


Any win is a good win with this WIP of a team, but this win especially was them actually showing a need to win and then taking it.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#85 » by FriedRise » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:22 pm

When the trade happened, I was wondering if Theis is strictly a 5 given how good he is defensively and because that's the position that Brad Stevens had him playing in his time in Boston. But I've been liking him at the 4 next to Vooch.

Offensively he does have a 3 point shot and can knock down the midrange (albeit not at high volume), but that's also the type of player you need if you're gonna have a lineup featuring two high volume scorers like Zach and Vooch. When he's on like last night, we can keep feeding him. Teams have been leaving him open to double Vooch, but he can make them pay. In the low post, he's another guy who can punish smaller players (especially for teams who like to switch like Miami) so with Theis and Vooch, we'll have 2 guys who can do that in the starting lineup.

If we can get the majority of our scoring from the PG, SG, and C positions, I think we can afford having efficient, low volume, defensive-minded players like Temple and Theis at the SF and PF positions. I still hold that we need to go all-in on at least a starting caliber PG this offseason, but I don't know how much money we have left if we re-sign Theis. We have many holes to plug, but we really need to go for quality here instead of quantity. The alternative is banking on PW to make a leap both offensive and defensively, but that's probably a tall order.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#86 » by Ice Man » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:45 pm

FriedRise wrote:When the trade happened, I was wondering if Theis is strictly a 5 given how good he is defensively and because that's the position that Brad Stevens had him playing in his time in Boston. But I've been liking him at the 4 next to Vooch.


Theis was never a true #5. He was a PF that was pushed to cover the center, because the Celtics had a plethora of forwards and were shocking empty at the center position. Perhaps his next team will use him once again as a center, for lack of a better option, but that's not his best position.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#87 » by MrSparkle » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:02 pm

If Theis/Donovan/Artunas/Vucevic all end the season on a strong note, chemistry improves, starting PF job looks like a good fit, why wouldn't Theis take a bird right's deal? We've become an international-friendly roster again (after that whole Niko-punched-on-an-island debacle). Euro players feel more comfortable when organizations make an effort.

I think his market is the MLE for a contender.. but I feel like LAC, LAL, BRK, GSW are operating with less cap (MMLE). Maybe Lakers snag him: he'd be a great fit. But they have a lot of resigns to deal with (like, half their rotation).
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#88 » by kodo » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:52 pm

I don't think Theis is going be such a hot commodity this offseason even with him doing well in Chicago.

A lot of teams, like the Clippers, won't even consider him because he's not a 3 shooter. 24%. The roleplayer contenders want is like Marcus Morris. Tough, veteran, 47% from 3. They don't want someone who's going to post up down low, they want catch & shoot 3P shooters to open the floor for their star players. I mean Boston basically gave him away to save on lux tax.

Theis works in Chicago since we need a defensive PF, 3P shooting optional because our center is a 3 point sniper and not a defender. On almost all other teams it's reversed, the center provides the defense and isn't much of a shooter, so the PF needs to be an offensive 3P shooter.

TBH it's going to be tough for him to find the same opportunities he's getting in Chi. Starting, playing 32 minutes, getting enough touches on offense to score 23 points and dish out 5 assists. Even if he gets an offer from a better team, if he returns to a 5 ppg 14 mpg guy like he was for most of his Boston career, his NBA value is going to be closer to minimum than MLE.

This is similar with Thad. Thad leads the entire league in % of points in the paint. No other team is going to let him post up as much as he does in Chicago. His role on other teams will be exactly how Boylen used him last year...rebound and hit your open 3s. Which he does poorly.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#89 » by mtron32 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:02 pm

kodo wrote:I don't think Theis is going be such a hot commodity this offseason even with him doing well in Chicago.

A lot of teams, like the Clippers, won't even consider him because he's not a 3 shooter. 24%. The roleplayer contenders want is like Marcus Morris. Tough, veteran, 47% from 3. They don't want someone who's going to post up down low, they want catch & shoot 3P shooters to open the floor for their star players. I mean Boston basically gave him away to save on lux tax.

Theis works in Chicago since we need a defensive PF, 3P shooting optional because our center is a 3 point sniper and not a defender. On almost all other teams it's reversed, the center provides the defense and isn't much of a shooter, so the PF needs to be an offensive 3P shooter.

TBH it's going to be tough for him to find the same opportunities he's getting in Chi. Starting, playing 32 minutes, getting enough touches on offense to score 23 points and dish out 5 assists. Even if he gets an offer from a better team, if he returns to a 5 ppg 14 mpg guy like he was for most of his Boston career, his NBA value is going to be closer to minimum than MLE.

This is similar with Thad. Thad leads the entire league in % of points in the paint. No other team is going to let him post up as much as he does in Chicago. His role on other teams will be exactly how Boylen used him last year...rebound and hit your open 3s. Which he does poorly.


Very good point, what he does for us is something specific and my god do I not want that thing to vanish, we finally have a front court that isn't feather soft. I'll even wager that if Lauri swallowed his pride and took a bench role for say 10million per year, he would develop into a beast under that starting front court.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#90 » by ZOMG » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:56 pm

mtron32 wrote:
kodo wrote:I don't think Theis is going be such a hot commodity this offseason even with him doing well in Chicago.

A lot of teams, like the Clippers, won't even consider him because he's not a 3 shooter. 24%. The roleplayer contenders want is like Marcus Morris. Tough, veteran, 47% from 3. They don't want someone who's going to post up down low, they want catch & shoot 3P shooters to open the floor for their star players. I mean Boston basically gave him away to save on lux tax.

Theis works in Chicago since we need a defensive PF, 3P shooting optional because our center is a 3 point sniper and not a defender. On almost all other teams it's reversed, the center provides the defense and isn't much of a shooter, so the PF needs to be an offensive 3P shooter.

TBH it's going to be tough for him to find the same opportunities he's getting in Chi. Starting, playing 32 minutes, getting enough touches on offense to score 23 points and dish out 5 assists. Even if he gets an offer from a better team, if he returns to a 5 ppg 14 mpg guy like he was for most of his Boston career, his NBA value is going to be closer to minimum than MLE.

This is similar with Thad. Thad leads the entire league in % of points in the paint. No other team is going to let him post up as much as he does in Chicago. His role on other teams will be exactly how Boylen used him last year...rebound and hit your open 3s. Which he does poorly.


Very good point, what he does for us is something specific and my god do I not want that thing to vanish, we finally have a front court that isn't feather soft. I'll even wager that if Lauri swallowed his pride and took a bench role for say 10million per year, he would develop into a beast under that starting front court.


Pride? Why the hell would Markkanen do anything like that? He'll get way more money in the open market AND very possibly a starting role too.

Anyway, he'll never sign a long term contract where he's locked into a bench role from the start. For a career starter, that would be crazy.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#91 » by mtron32 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:06 pm

ZOMG wrote:
mtron32 wrote:
kodo wrote:I don't think Theis is going be such a hot commodity this offseason even with him doing well in Chicago.

A lot of teams, like the Clippers, won't even consider him because he's not a 3 shooter. 24%. The roleplayer contenders want is like Marcus Morris. Tough, veteran, 47% from 3. They don't want someone who's going to post up down low, they want catch & shoot 3P shooters to open the floor for their star players. I mean Boston basically gave him away to save on lux tax.

Theis works in Chicago since we need a defensive PF, 3P shooting optional because our center is a 3 point sniper and not a defender. On almost all other teams it's reversed, the center provides the defense and isn't much of a shooter, so the PF needs to be an offensive 3P shooter.

TBH it's going to be tough for him to find the same opportunities he's getting in Chi. Starting, playing 32 minutes, getting enough touches on offense to score 23 points and dish out 5 assists. Even if he gets an offer from a better team, if he returns to a 5 ppg 14 mpg guy like he was for most of his Boston career, his NBA value is going to be closer to minimum than MLE.

This is similar with Thad. Thad leads the entire league in % of points in the paint. No other team is going to let him post up as much as he does in Chicago. His role on other teams will be exactly how Boylen used him last year...rebound and hit your open 3s. Which he does poorly.


Very good point, what he does for us is something specific and my god do I not want that thing to vanish, we finally have a front court that isn't feather soft. I'll even wager that if Lauri swallowed his pride and took a bench role for say 10million per year, he would develop into a beast under that starting front court.


Pride? Why the hell would Markkanen do anything like that? He'll get way more money in the open market AND very possibly a starting role too.

Anyway, he'll never sign a long term contract where he's locked into a bench role from the start. For a career starter, that would be crazy.


He hasn't done anything to prove he's a starter though. Coming off the bench, I have way less issues with him playing the way he does, he's at least good for some timely threes.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#92 » by MJPipRose » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:10 pm

SalmonsSuperfan wrote:Missed the game, was going to watch the replay and avoid realgm so as not to get spoilers...go out for a cig, look at my phone and open espn/nba according to muscle memory...well we won and seems like a game worth watching!!



Yeah pretty good game,
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#93 » by SfBull » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:11 pm

PWill shouldn't be in the starting lineup,we should play Temple at 3 even with Zach returning,we should play Sato/Zach/Temple/Theis /Vuc.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#94 » by TeamMan » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:15 pm

ZOMG wrote:
mtron32 wrote:
kodo wrote:I don't think Theis is going be such a hot commodity this offseason even with him doing well in Chicago.

A lot of teams, like the Clippers, won't even consider him because he's not a 3 shooter. 24%. The roleplayer contenders want is like Marcus Morris. Tough, veteran, 47% from 3. They don't want someone who's going to post up down low, they want catch & shoot 3P shooters to open the floor for their star players. I mean Boston basically gave him away to save on lux tax.

Theis works in Chicago since we need a defensive PF, 3P shooting optional because our center is a 3 point sniper and not a defender. On almost all other teams it's reversed, the center provides the defense and isn't much of a shooter, so the PF needs to be an offensive 3P shooter.

TBH it's going to be tough for him to find the same opportunities he's getting in Chi. Starting, playing 32 minutes, getting enough touches on offense to score 23 points and dish out 5 assists. Even if he gets an offer from a better team, if he returns to a 5 ppg 14 mpg guy like he was for most of his Boston career, his NBA value is going to be closer to minimum than MLE.

This is similar with Thad. Thad leads the entire league in % of points in the paint. No other team is going to let him post up as much as he does in Chicago. His role on other teams will be exactly how Boylen used him last year...rebound and hit your open 3s. Which he does poorly.


Very good point, what he does for us is something specific and my god do I not want that thing to vanish, we finally have a front court that isn't feather soft. I'll even wager that if Lauri swallowed his pride and took a bench role for say 10million per year, he would develop into a beast under that starting front court.


Pride? Why the hell would Markkanen do anything like that? He'll get way more money in the open market AND very possibly a starting role too.

Anyway, he'll never sign a long term contract where he's locked into a bench role from the start. For a career starter, that would be crazy.

We should not forget that Lauri is a RFA and regardless of the contract the Bulls can match and afterward let BD decide how he wants to use him.

But IMO BD would keep playing him as a SF/PF swing man.

What we can't guess is whether or not a team is willing to work a S&T to get Lauri.

If not, I see him staying with the Bulls until next year's Trading Deadline.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#95 » by pylb » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:23 pm

I dislike Coby white and would like to see him moved, but imo he did a great job of handling the double teams that Miami threw at him and is a big reason we won the 4th quarter.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#96 » by ZOMG » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:23 pm

TeamMan wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
mtron32 wrote:
Very good point, what he does for us is something specific and my god do I not want that thing to vanish, we finally have a front court that isn't feather soft. I'll even wager that if Lauri swallowed his pride and took a bench role for say 10million per year, he would develop into a beast under that starting front court.


Pride? Why the hell would Markkanen do anything like that? He'll get way more money in the open market AND very possibly a starting role too.

Anyway, he'll never sign a long term contract where he's locked into a bench role from the start. For a career starter, that would be crazy.

We should not forget that Lauri is a RFA and regardless of the contract the Bulls can match and afterward let BD decide how he wants to use him.


Nobody's forgetting it, least of all AK, who's very probably going to lose Markkanen for nothing.

What we can't guess is whether or not a team is willing to work a S&T to get Lauri.


I'll be absolutely shocked if there is a sign and trade.

If not, I see him staying with the Bulls until next year's Trading Deadline.


There's no way Lauri will play another season in a bench role for the Bulls.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#97 » by Chi town » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:15 pm

Jvaughn wrote:
kodo wrote:Vuc & Theis got all the well deserved props, but Temple has another underrated defensive game. There were some screens were he just teleported through them and didn't lose a step on his man.


If there's one thing Coby works on this summer, he needs to stay attached to the hip of Temple and Troy Brown Jr. and learn how to navigate those screens. Those two rarely call for switches or get lost on screens. Coby is literally a magnet when it comes to this part of the game. Often ends up in a bear hug with the defender. If he can fix this part of his game, it would be a huge gain.


This. Please.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#98 » by CobyWhite0 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:35 pm

Projected Cap Space (from RealGM) https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

New York 63,856,680

San Antonio 47,862,458

Oklahoma City 43,617,008

Dallas 34,458,606

Miami 26,950,162

Cleveland 23,915,849

Toronto 22,423,993

Charlotte 21,220,235

We are the only other team with any projected cap space.
____________________________

Knicks already have an All-Star PF, it's the one position they definitely have covered heading into the summer. I can't see why they would want to pay Lauri big dollars to come off the bench.

Spurs are definitely a possibility, most of their PF minutes have been going to DeRozan and Gay, and they're both free agents this summer. Poeltl would help cover Lauri's defensive deficiencies, and vice versa. But the Spurs have never been a team to spend big $$$ in free agency, one has to wonder if they'd be willing to offer Lauri enough money that the Bulls wouldn't match

OKC has nothing but kids (and Al Horford), they certainly could offer Lauri a huge contract. But they have so many draft picks, I don't know if they'd be interested in paying a lot of money for Lauri when they'll have all kinds of players on rookie deals

Dallas already has KP, I can't imagine they'll be interested in another injury-prone 7-footer who doesn't have a back to the basket post game.

The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.

Cleveland only has $24 million in cap space if they let Jarrett Allen walk. Even if they can re-sign him for $10 million next season (which IMO won't happen, he'll get more than that), that only leaves them about $14 million in cap space. That's a 4 year, $60 million contract, the Bulls might match that and worry about trading him later.

The Raptors have $71 million tied up in Siakam, Van Fleet, OG and Flynn. They have Siakam and OG locking down the forward positions, I can't imagine they'd spend a huge chunk of their cap space on another PF.

Charlotte has PJ Washington and Bridges manning the PF spot, and they can only create cap space by letting Zeller and Biyombo - their only 2 centers - walk. I can't see how Lauri is a fit for the Hornets.
____________________________

Any other team that wants Lauri would have to do it via a sign-and-trade.

Once you get into the details of each team with cap space, it doesn't look to me like Lauri is going to have more than 2 or 3 teams trying to sign him as a free agent.
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#99 » by Ice Man » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:51 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.


I always get lost on cap space math. Perhaps you can help me. According to basketball-reference, the Heat are obliged to pay $78 million in contracts next year to -

Butler
Bam
Herro
Precious
Okpala
Ryan Anderson (ouch)

The 2022 salary cap is reported to be $112 million, that would seem to leave $34 million for the Heat to spend, if it renounces its player options on Iggy and Dragic. Whereas the figure you quoted from Realgm is for $26.9 million. I don't understand the discrepancy.

(But of course I don't understand any of this cap stuff. The Nets currently have a $166 million payroll, which of course is far, far above the theoretical salary cap.)
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Re: PG: New Best Win of the Season 

Post#100 » by bad knees » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:58 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:Projected Cap Space (from RealGM) https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

New York 63,856,680

San Antonio 47,862,458

Oklahoma City 43,617,008

Dallas 34,458,606

Miami 26,950,162

Cleveland 23,915,849

Toronto 22,423,993

Charlotte 21,220,235

We are the only other team with any projected cap space.
____________________________

Knicks already have an All-Star PF, it's the one position they definitely have covered heading into the summer. I can't see why they would want to pay Lauri big dollars to come off the bench.

Spurs are definitely a possibility, most of their PF minutes have been going to DeRozan and Gay, and they're both free agents this summer. Poeltl would help cover Lauri's defensive deficiencies, and vice versa. But the Spurs have never been a team to spend big $$$ in free agency, one has to wonder if they'd be willing to offer Lauri enough money that the Bulls wouldn't match

OKC has nothing but kids (and Al Horford), they certainly could offer Lauri a huge contract. But they have so many draft picks, I don't know if they'd be interested in paying a lot of money for Lauri when they'll have all kinds of players on rookie deals

Dallas already has KP, I can't imagine they'll be interested in another injury-prone 7-footer who doesn't have a back to the basket post game.

The Heat are paying Jimmy and Bam a combined $64 million next season, their projected cap space assumes that Dragic, Iggy, Oladipo, Robinson and Dunn aren't re-signed. That is 100% guaranteed to not happen, at the very least Robinson and Dunn will be re-signed. That won't leave them with enough cap space to make an offer to Lauri.

Cleveland only has $24 million in cap space if they let Jarrett Allen walk. Even if they can re-sign him for $10 million next season (which IMO won't happen, he'll get more than that), that only leaves them about $14 million in cap space. That's a 4 year, $60 million contract, the Bulls might match that and worry about trading him later.

The Raptors have $71 million tied up in Siakam, Van Fleet, OG and Flynn. They have Siakam and OG locking down the forward positions, I can't imagine they'd spend a huge chunk of their cap space on another PF.

Charlotte has PJ Washington and Bridges manning the PF spot, and they can only create cap space by letting Zeller and Biyombo - their only 2 centers - walk. I can't see how Lauri is a fit for the Hornets.
____________________________

Any other team that wants Lauri would have to do it via a sign-and-trade.

Once you get into the details of each team with cap space, it doesn't look to me like Lauri is going to have more than 2 or 3 teams trying to sign him as a free agent.


On another topic, New York, Dallas and Charlotte are teams that are likely to be interested in Theis.

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