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Patrick Lee Williams Comps?

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Leslie Forman
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#181 » by Leslie Forman » Tue May 4, 2021 10:46 pm

dougthonus wrote:Paul George is probably another guy that is a reasonable comparison.

I brought up PG way back as a comp, but seeing more of Pat since then…yeah he's just nowhere near that level of athlete.

PG could legitimately defend the 2 full-time and actually used to sometimes for Indy, I don't think Pat is ever going to be capable of that.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#182 » by Wingy » Wed May 5, 2021 2:08 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Paul George is probably another guy that is a reasonable comparison.

I brought up PG way back as a comp, but seeing more of Pat since then…yeah he's just nowhere near that level of athlete.

PG could legitimately defend the 2 full-time and actually used to sometimes for Indy, I don't think Pat is ever going to be capable of that.


I recall PG hounding Rose a little bit in the playoffs. Not saying he locked him down, but he made him have to think, and work a little bit to bring the ball up. Can't ever imagine PW ever being close to having that kind of ability.

More, and more I'm finding myself agreeing with those that have been saying Pat might be best as the modern NBA 4.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#183 » by SfBull » Wed May 5, 2021 3:17 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Paul George is probably another guy that is a reasonable comparison.

I brought up PG way back as a comp, but seeing more of Pat since then…yeah he's just nowhere near that level of athlete.

PG could legitimately defend the 2 full-time and actually used to sometimes for Indy, I don't think Pat is ever going to be capable of that.

People are really high on PWill here,comparing him with Paul George?C´mon!
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#184 » by SfBull » Wed May 5, 2021 3:24 pm

Wingy wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Paul George is probably another guy that is a reasonable comparison.

I brought up PG way back as a comp, but seeing more of Pat since then…yeah he's just nowhere near that level of athlete.

PG could legitimately defend the 2 full-time and actually used to sometimes for Indy, I don't think Pat is ever going to be capable of that.


I recall PG hounding Rose a little bit in the playoffs. Not saying he locked him down, but he made him have to think, and work a little bit to bring the ball up. Can't ever imagine PW ever being close to having that kind of ability.

More, and more I'm finding myself agreeing with those that have been saying Pat might be best as the modern NBA 4.

I keep thinking PWill might best evolve on a useful role player until he shows more than now.Yes, he´s still young ,19 years and has space for developing his game but such comparisons seem to be exaggerated by now.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#185 » by sco » Wed May 5, 2021 3:55 pm

SfBull wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Paul George is probably another guy that is a reasonable comparison.

I brought up PG way back as a comp, but seeing more of Pat since then…yeah he's just nowhere near that level of athlete.

PG could legitimately defend the 2 full-time and actually used to sometimes for Indy, I don't think Pat is ever going to be capable of that.

People are really high on PWill here,comparing him with Paul George?C´mon!

Yeah, Lauri was going to be a better version of Dirk on here too, and Carter was Horford 2.0. But those 2 guys illustrate the difference between potential and realized potential.

IMO, PWill is guy who still needs to figure out the NBA game and where his strengths can be leveraged. I can't tell right now if he is still thinking before he reacts on both ends because most of the system/game isn't fully grasped or if he's just slow. His vision/passing and his help defense seem to be ahead of the rest of his game. I suspect we will see ONLY modest improvement next season. I'd be fine with that if hear he brings the right sort of offseason work ethic.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#186 » by MrSparkle » Wed May 5, 2021 4:57 pm

Well, whatever we think he is... He’s basically a growth asset, not a cornerstone. This team can not make any moves to build around Pat, unlike LaMelo or even Ant... unless he shows much more. But you can’t go into this off-season thinking we’ve addressed anything with Pat.

I do think we’d benefit from opening up the PF rotation. How many S&Ts can a team make? Isn’t there a rule about the hard cap when you S&T? I was thinking it’d make sense to explore S&Ts with Thad, Theis and Lauri, but I don’t think all 3 could be purposed in free agency.

Open to keeping Theis cause I really like his scrappy game, but I’m having a hard time imagining a full season of a Pat/Theis/Vuc frontcourt. Not enough scoring nor defense.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#187 » by sco » Wed May 5, 2021 5:21 pm

MrSparkle wrote:Well, whatever we think he is... He’s basically a growth asset, not a cornerstone. This team can not make any moves to build around Pat, unlike LaMelo or even Ant... unless he shows much more. But you can’t go into this off-season thinking we’ve addressed anything with Pat.

I do think we’d benefit from opening up the PF rotation. How many S&Ts can a team make? Isn’t there a rule about the hard cap when you S&T? I was thinking it’d make sense to explore S&Ts with Thad, Theis and Lauri, but I don’t think all 3 could be purposed in free agency.

Open to keeping Theis cause I really like his scrappy game, but I’m having a hard time imagining a full season of a Pat/Theis/Vuc frontcourt. Not enough scoring nor defense.

I agree that PWill looks like a complementary piece than a foundational one. I disagree that Pat/Theis/Vuc won't be an effective frontcourt. Adding Vuc changes shooting dynamics such that the combination of Zach and Vuc (which we've seen little of, so far) where your 3rd option scorer would go from getting a regular 15-17 shots per game, down to 12 or 13 - with most of those off of double-teams of our 2 stars or opportunistic ones. Defensively, I think we gain significant improvement just from growing familiarity with the system (and the NBA, in Williams' case), optimistically further gaining by replacing our starting PG with a competent defender.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#188 » by kodo » Wed May 5, 2021 6:21 pm

When we drafted him, from the total package of frame to skillset to projected strengths to personality, he most reminded me of Deandre Hunter. Also went 4th.

Maybe a little Rui Hachimura, but Rui is a more aggressive and active player overall, has no problem with contact and seeks it out.

Floor might be Taurean Prince, but that seems unlikely as Prince entered the league at 22 and you weren't expecting much upside from him.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#189 » by Ice Man » Wed May 5, 2021 6:33 pm

SfBull wrote:People are really high on PWill here,comparing him with Paul George?C´mon!


The comparison is about physical attributes. Not a prediction that Pat will become that level of player.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#190 » by SfBull » Wed May 5, 2021 6:47 pm

kodo wrote:When we drafted him, from the total package of frame to skillset to projected strengths to personality, he most reminded me of Deandre Hunter. Also went 4th.

Maybe a little Rui Hachimura, but Rui is a more aggressive and active player overall, has no problem with contact and seeks it out.

Floor might be Taurean Prince, but that seems unlikely as Prince entered the league at 22 and you weren't expecting much upside from him.

No player you named for comparison developed in a star.
For me the best we can say about Patrick Williams is that he is a project ,not really a steal at #4 but a player who showed some flashes of quality play at the beginning of this season but couldn't play consistently well.I remember how Lauri played well in his first 2 seasons and now many posters raved about his star ceiling.I think PWill is going to be a player like Lauri , being moved for the bench if and when the Bulls improve their roster.There are players drafted after him with good stats like Haliburton or Okoro.Others like my preferred draft pick lKyra Lewis didn't show his game yet.
It's hard to understand why people keep comparing PWill with stars like Kawhi or Paul George, seems much more like a role player for me,not bad but far from anything close to greatness.Obviously his situation can change next seasons but he should earn his minutes from the bench in a way a coach like Thibs would play him.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#191 » by SfBull » Wed May 5, 2021 6:56 pm

Ice Man wrote:
SfBull wrote:People are really high on PWill here,comparing him with Paul George?C´mon!


The comparison is about physical attributes. Not a prediction that Pat will become that level of player.

Paul George's game is much more fluid than PWill's.Pat seems scared to shooting from outside even with good looks , something George does naturally.He seems sometimes confused between playing like a wing or a power forward.Maybe the problem is starting him when he clearly isn't prepared for that.I'm not sure he'd be starting for any of East playoff teams right now .
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#192 » by Leslie Forman » Thu May 6, 2021 1:16 am

SfBull wrote:I keep thinking PWill might best evolve on a useful role player until he shows more than now.Yes, he´s still young ,19 years and has space for developing his game but such comparisons seem to be exaggerated by now.

For the near future, while we're unfortunately stuck going all-in with this Zach/Vuc combo, developing Pat into some sort of a Robert Covington/Joe Ingles hybrid should be the (reasonable) goal, IMO.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#193 » by kulaz3000 » Thu May 6, 2021 1:51 am

Ice Man wrote:
SfBull wrote:People are really high on PWill here,comparing him with Paul George?C´mon!


The comparison is about physical attributes. Not a prediction that Pat will become that level of player.


Yeah, physically, they aren't a good comparison.

Paul George and someone like Jaylen Brown a quicker on their feet, and have really quick first steps, something that Patrick doesn't have, not to their level.

Patrick is a strong athlete, with bursts of speed, someone who can use his strength and width to bully players. Physically, he is more akin to someone like Kwahi Leonard, they aren't explosive players, but they are athletic in their own way, who uses their strength to get to where they want. Hell, you could even put someone like Jimmy Butler into that mix as well, though I think Jimmy when younger was slightly more quicker than those two also.

Patrick needs to work on his foot work, and use his strength to get to his spots, and eventually it would be a great benefit to his game to work on a post game.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#194 » by Wingy » Thu May 6, 2021 2:24 am

One thing about Pat that makes him pale in comparison athletically to a lot of the guys mentioned is that he just seems really slow trying to close on shooters from a distance.

Whether it was from losing his own man, or trying to help a teammate who blew a rotation...to me, he too often looks like he’s lumbering to get out there to get a hand up.

Given that’s a completely subjective perception, does anyone else notice that, or is it just me?
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#195 » by kulaz3000 » Thu May 6, 2021 2:30 am

Wingy wrote:One thing about Pat that makes him pale in comparison athletically to a lot of the guys mentioned is that he just seems really slow trying to close on shooters from a distance.

Whether it was from losing his own man, or trying to help a teammate who blew a rotation...to me, he too often looks like he’s lumbering to get out there to get a hand up.

Given that’s a completely subjective perception, does anyone else notice that, or is it just me?


I equate that more to our crappy defensive schemes, and him really not knowing where to be. He seems lost too often on the defensive end, but then also in moments he is also very sharp and knows who he should be covering and gets to defend quickly.

To me this is about defensive awareness, and he will get better at it as he gains more experience I think, I hope.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#196 » by Wingy » Thu May 6, 2021 3:30 am

kulaz3000 wrote:
Wingy wrote:One thing about Pat that makes him pale in comparison athletically to a lot of the guys mentioned is that he just seems really slow trying to close on shooters from a distance.

Whether it was from losing his own man, or trying to help a teammate who blew a rotation...to me, he too often looks like he’s lumbering to get out there to get a hand up.

Given that’s a completely subjective perception, does anyone else notice that, or is it just me?


I equate that more to our crappy defensive schemes, and him really not knowing where to be. He seems lost too often on the defensive end, but then also in moments he is also very sharp and knows who he should be covering and gets to defend quickly.

To me this is about defensive awareness, and he will get better at it as he gains more experience I think, I hope.


I mean lumbering. He just looks like he’s really slow, and physically struggling to get out there.

That’s why I mentioned covering up for teammates as well. Sometimes he’s trying to do the right thing covering for someone else, but then he just seems glacial in his attempt to get out there.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#197 » by dougthonus » Fri May 7, 2021 3:35 pm

Wingy wrote:I mean lumbering. He just looks like he’s really slow, and physically struggling to get out there.

That’s why I mentioned covering up for teammates as well. Sometimes he’s trying to do the right thing covering for someone else, but then he just seems glacial in his attempt to get out there.


He's kind of a lumbering athletic guy if that makes sense, like he's got good hops, and can have good down hill speed, but he takes a bit to load up and get moving, he isn't a quick burst athlete.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#198 » by beeshma » Fri May 7, 2021 4:05 pm

Wingy wrote:One thing about Pat that makes him pale in comparison athletically to a lot of the guys mentioned is that he just seems really slow trying to close on shooters from a distance.

Whether it was from losing his own man, or trying to help a teammate who blew a rotation...to me, he too often looks like he’s lumbering to get out there to get a hand up.

Given that’s a completely subjective perception, does anyone else notice that, or is it just me?


I've seen some plays where he seems to be jogging on his closeouts. So I don't know why he hasn't been coached to give more effort. It's a superstar's privilege to take plays off, not a rookie's.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#199 » by JockItch43 » Fri May 7, 2021 4:48 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Wingy wrote:I mean lumbering. He just looks like he’s really slow, and physically struggling to get out there.

That’s why I mentioned covering up for teammates as well. Sometimes he’s trying to do the right thing covering for someone else, but then he just seems glacial in his attempt to get out there.


He's kind of a lumbering athletic guy if that makes sense, like he's got good hops, and can have good down hill speed, but he takes a bit to load up and get moving, he isn't a quick burst athlete.


I see the same thing... it’s also why I see his future at the 4, not the 3.

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