Patrick Lee Williams Comps?

[sco]

I think Patrick Williams epitomizes the "good soldier" stereotype.

He feels like he has a role, and just tries to play within it while avoiding mistakes.

I think this summer, he gains confidence in his ball handling, shot creation, and the game slows down for him next year.

The root problem is that he just doesn't want to make mistakes, and I think that's a root problem that is very fixable with experience.

I'm not sure what other player has this trait quite to the extent that he has it.

I see that.

I think he needs to work on his post game and his handles (really ball security/awareness) this offseason. It is common for him to get the ball at the arc, not have the open 3, drive toward the rim only to get stopped (where he would previously take the 15 foot jumper - which Billy is telling him to minimize). There's often a lack of decisiveness where he's try to avoid contact or go up soft.

[Rose2Boozer]

Marvin Williams. I even thought so when watching him at FSU. If the NBA decides to have a summer league this year, I would love to watch Williams play. How does he look when playing against competition he's supposed to dominate.

[The Box Office]

He's just flat out abysmal right now. No comparisons. Just get better, kid. At least contribute defensively. He's not even doing that. Where is the effort? Where is the competitiveness?

[WindyCityBorn]

He's just flat out abysmal right now. No comparisons. Just get better, kid. At least contribute defensively. He's not even doing that. Where is the effort? Where is the competitiveness?

He should not be starting yet. He didn’t even start in college. I can only surmise they believe this baptism by fire will have him ready to play at starter level next season.

[beeshma]

The Tony Snell comparison works.

1) Unusually quiet, non-demonstrative
2) Unimpressive college stats
3) Good-looking jump shot
4) Regarded as high-ceiling athlete

On item #4, Tony Snell certainly was. He had a 6' 11" wingspan and his lane agility time was the 2nd best at the draft combine. Faster than MCW, Dipo, Otto Porter, and Dennis Schroeder.

I mean, it's a sample size of one, and certainly does not mean that PWill's career will resemble Tony Snell's. But they have an outwardly similar draft profile. And yep, I looked it up, the early comparison for Tony Snell by the scouts was ... Kawhi Leonard.

Actually, one more comp between PWill and Tony Snell. Weren't they both point guards at a younger age, before hitting their growth spurts? So with both players, when drafted, there was the hope that they might be lead ball handlers despite playing forward in the NBA.

That confidence started to blossom during Snell’s year at Westwind Prep Academy in Phoenix, where Lea was an assistant coach. That season, alongside Jamaal Franklin — who ended up at San Diego State and is also in this NBA draft class — got Snell his scholarship from New Mexico. “He was playing point guard, the first time he had the ball in his hands all game,” Lea recalled.

[Hold That]

I said he reminds me of Jeff Green back then and he still does now.

[khufure]

Based on his interviews I'm more optimistic than you guys. He lives basketball way more than many other players. I would not be surprised to see him develop at a consistent pace and hit all-star in a few years. Whether he can consistently take guys off the dribble and|or point forward is going to make a big difference.

[Leslie Forman]

Pat is at 12.8 FGA per 100, 14.8 USG%. Jimmy Butler his first two years was at 12.7 FGA and 14.6 USG%.

And of course, that's with Jimmy being much older. So one shouldn't lose hope.

If one does want to lose hope, however, Tony Snell as a rookie was at 14.5 FGA and 14.9 USG%. Also, Whereas Jimmy averaged 6.2 FTA per 100, Pat only averages 2.8, which is much closer to Snell's 1.8.

So basically…you can find whatever you want to find in his stats so far.

[GoBlue72391]

I think we all agree that this is not the rookie season we wanted him to have. But it also wasn't the type of performance to write him off. Short of immediate impact superstar ala Rose, I'm actually okay with not having another inflated rookie season ala Lauri. Hope he has a chippy summer of training- please go to LA and hang out with Lebron and Kawhi.

Oh it's definitely wayyy too early to write him off, but it is the perfect time to re-evaluate and adjust our expectations for him.

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[GoBlue72391]

Marvin Williams. I even thought so when watching him at FSU. If the NBA decides to have a summer league this year, I would love to watch Williams play. How does he look when playing against competition he's supposed to dominate.

Good point. On a similar note, if this season gets to a point where we're officially eliminated from playoff contention, then I want to see PWill get like 15 shots per game to see how he responds to a bigger role.

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[GoBlue72391]

The Tony Snell comparison works.

1) Unusually quiet, non-demonstrative
2) Unimpressive college stats
3) Good-looking jump shot
4) Regarded as high-ceiling athlete

On item #4, Tony Snell certainly was. He had a 6' 11" wingspan and his lane agility time was the 2nd best at the draft combine. Faster than MCW, Dipo, Otto Porter, and Dennis Schroeder.

I mean, it's a sample size of one, and certainly does not mean that PWill's career will resemble Tony Snell's. But they have an outwardly similar draft profile. And yep, I looked it up, the early comparison for Tony Snell by the scouts was ... Kawhi Leonard.

Actually, one more comp between PWill and Tony Snell. Weren't they both point guards at a younger age, before hitting their growth spurts? So with both players, when drafted, there was the hope that they might be lead ball handlers despite playing forward in the NBA.

That confidence started to blossom during Snell’s year at Westwind Prep Academy in Phoenix, where Lea was an assistant coach. That season, alongside Jamaal Franklin — who ended up at San Diego State and is also in this NBA draft class — got Snell his scholarship from New Mexico. “He was playing point guard, the first time he had the ball in his hands all game,” Lea recalled.

A ton of NBA players played PG at lower levels when they were younger. Even guys like Lauri. It typically doesn't mean anything in the long run.

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[coldfish]

Last night, Patrick actually drove and made an aggressive move to the hoop. He did it so slowly and poorly that multiple different Knicks defenders were there and the shot was so poor that several people could have blocked it and one did. He looked like someone out of the stands had suited up and decided to play hoops.

Perhaps Pat isn't aggressive because he knows he isn't good enough and his skills are only such that he can beat non NBA players playing at non NBA intensity.

His athleticism in particular is very questionable.

[DuckIII]

Last night, Patrick actually drove and made an aggressive move to the hoop. He did it so slowly and poorly that multiple different Knicks defenders were there and the shot was so poor that several people could have blocked it and one did. He looked like someone out of the stands had suited up and decided to play hoops.

Perhaps Pat isn't aggressive because he knows he isn't good enough and his skills are only such that he can beat non NBA players playing at non NBA intensity.

His athleticism in particular is very questionable.

That was not an aggressive move. It was a shaky move that lacked confidence. That’s a big part of his problem. You can see a big difference in explosion and power between the moves he immediately commits to and the ones he doesn’t. Unfortunately, as the season has gone on it’s more often the latter than the former, which is another indicator that his mentality is the issue.

I don’t see how anyone can question the physical traits, but you aren’t the only one doing it so I can’t say it’s crazy. For example the growing popularity of the Deng comparison despite that he’s in a whole other class than Deng athletically in every way (strength, north south speed, vertical, first step, etc.).

And Deng is one of my top 5 favorite Bulls players of all time. But physically these guys are nowhere near each other on the spectrum.

I drool at the thought of a player with Deng’s mind and Patrick’s ability. That’s how you end up with Kawhi Leonard types.

[LateNight]

Last night, Patrick actually drove and made an aggressive move to the hoop. He did it so slowly and poorly that multiple different Knicks defenders were there and the shot was so poor that several people could have blocked it and one did. He looked like someone out of the stands had suited up and decided to play hoops.

Perhaps Pat isn't aggressive because he knows he isn't good enough and his skills are only such that he can beat non NBA players playing at non NBA intensity.

His athleticism in particular is very questionable.

He also made a layup high off the glass in traffic that I had no expectation of him making. So... He definitely has highs and lows

[dougthonus]

Pat is at 12.8 FGA per 100, 14.8 USG%. Jimmy Butler his first two years was at 12.7 FGA and 14.6 USG%.

And of course, that's with Jimmy being much older. So one shouldn't lose hope.

If one does want to lose hope, however, Tony Snell as a rookie was at 14.5 FGA and 14.9 USG%. Also, Whereas Jimmy averaged 6.2 FTA per 100, Pat only averages 2.8, which is much closer to Snell's 1.8.

So basically…you can find whatever you want to find in his stats so far.

The vast majority of guys whom are this passive and put up these types of per 36 minute stats do not go on to be great players. If you want to do statistical comparisons, the median player with a statistical profile similar to Pat probably has a role player or less like career.

There are exceptions if you want to go needle hunting. So the real question is Pat a needle or a piece of hay. There are reasons to think he might be a needle, but they're mainly built off of pre-draft hype, and the fact we want him to be. I doubt fans of other teams are going "wow, Pat Williams, future star, got to see if he's available".

[DuckIII]

Pat is at 12.8 FGA per 100, 14.8 USG%. Jimmy Butler his first two years was at 12.7 FGA and 14.6 USG%.

And of course, that's with Jimmy being much older. So one shouldn't lose hope.

If one does want to lose hope, however, Tony Snell as a rookie was at 14.5 FGA and 14.9 USG%. Also, Whereas Jimmy averaged 6.2 FTA per 100, Pat only averages 2.8, which is much closer to Snell's 1.8.

So basically…you can find whatever you want to find in his stats so far.

The vast majority of guys whom are this passive and put up these types of per 36 minute stats do not go on to be great players. If you want to do statistical comparisons, the median player with a statistical profile similar to Pat probably has a role player or less like career.

There are exceptions if you want to go needle hunting. So the real question is Pat a needle or a piece of hay. There are reasons to think he might be a needle, but they're mainly built off of pre-draft hype IMO.

His pre-draft hype? You make it sound like he’s OJ Mayo. Most of us in here didn’t hardly discuss him at all as a prospect and he was considered a surprise pick at 4 in lots of articles/summaries that I read. He was one of the least hyped, least discussed prospects projected in top 10.

He’s about the most “anti-hyped” top 5 pick you will ever see.

[dougthonus]

His pre-draft hype? You make it sound like he’s OJ Mayo. Most of us in here didn’t hardly discuss him at all as a prospect and he was considered a surprise pick at 4 in lots of articles/summaries that I read. He was one of the least hyped, least discussed prospects projected in top 10.

He’s about the most “anti-hyped” top 5 pick you will ever see.

Should probably flip it to say post-draft, pre-season hype, where a guy no one liked became super liked after we read all the puff pieces. Obviously if NBA talent evaluators wanted him, there is reason to buy into some of that. We also know this was a poor draft, so there is reason to think we shouldn't overly buy into it in terms of total upside.

I'm hoping he becomes a valuable two way player, even if he's just good on both ends and not elite on either. Relative to the draft quality, I think that'd be a good outcome.

[beeshma]

Actually, one more comp between PWill and Tony Snell. Weren't they both point guards at a younger age, before hitting their growth spurts? So with both players, when drafted, there was the hope that they might be lead ball handlers despite playing forward in the NBA.

That confidence started to blossom during Snell’s year at Westwind Prep Academy in Phoenix, where Lea was an assistant coach. That season, alongside Jamaal Franklin — who ended up at San Diego State and is also in this NBA draft class — got Snell his scholarship from New Mexico. “He was playing point guard, the first time he had the ball in his hands all game,” Lea recalled.

A ton of NBA players played PG at lower levels when they were younger. Even guys like Lauri. It typically doesn't mean anything in the long run.

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I'm not saying Pwill's HS point guard skills will blossom in the NBA. The reason I'm pointing this out is to make a comp between Pwill and other NBA players, in this case Snell. That is to say, perhaps players like this have more challenges in learning what to do off ball, and so it makes them play passively.

[Michael Jackson]

His pre-draft hype? You make it sound like he’s OJ Mayo. Most of us in here didn’t hardly discuss him at all as a prospect and he was considered a surprise pick at 4 in lots of articles/summaries that I read. He was one of the least hyped, least discussed prospects projected in top 10.

He’s about the most “anti-hyped” top 5 pick you will ever see.

Should probably flip it to say post-draft, pre-season hype, where a guy no one liked became super liked after we read all the puff pieces. Obviously if NBA talent evaluators wanted him, there is reason to buy into some of that. We also know this was a poor draft, so there is reason to think we shouldn't overly buy into it in terms of total upside.

I'm hoping he becomes a valuable two way player, even if he's just good on both ends and not elite on either. Relative to the draft quality, I think that'd be a good outcome.

Yeah to be honest, Pat was a shock to be in the top 5 24 hours before the draft. I have never seen the hype machine shift so fast on someone honestly. No hype to a lot of the national media saying this 3as a genius pick. Maybe it is but maybe there was a reason there was absolutely no hype on him before.

[DASMACKDOWN]

People believe what they want to believe but I have basically already proved that Pat is exactly in line with his peers. Billy said it last night. People just want players to be the prime versions of themselves right away. It just doesnt work that way. This was in regards to Julius Randle. Saying that he is a completely different player now than when he entered the league 7 years ago.

So people saying bust or Pat doesnt have this or that is so ridiculously short sighted. If thats the case Mikal Bridges and many others are also busts when clearly they arent.