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PG: That's a wrap

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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#61 » by SfBull » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:32 am

Red8911 wrote:
Ice Man wrote:I don't think the Knicks have the talent to make a playoff run this year, but they are fun to watch. Thibs certainly does get the best out of what he has. As for the Bulls, might as well give Green, Dotson, Aminu etc. some run. We're not playing for anything now.

What do you mean not playing for anything now? There are 10 games remaining with 2 games out of that 10th spot. Is it looking more unlikely for them to reach the play in? Sure but they will still try to make it that’s the goal right now. No other choice but to fight it till the end at this point and hope for the best. If they somehow sneak into the play in, then with Zach back anything is possible.

I don't want it, better finish the season out of play in games and go for the so much needed offseason moves .
Season is just over.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#62 » by SfBull » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:35 am

TallDude wrote:Zach is great player but not what bulls need. Star PG would be more important. Zach would be better if he could be more like Doncic, Harden etc. But we can not ask that for Zach he is pure scorer. Problem is he is not getting players around him better. Actually they get worse because of Zach heroball. I don`t like ballhogs. I know Luca and Harden are but they are better players than Zach and they can pass. Zach also need good PG. With good PG Zach would be every year allstar and his negative impact would not be problem. We lose no matter Zach scores.

Agreed and that's why he shouldn't be blamed for losses.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#63 » by Pentele » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:55 am

sco wrote:Give up the tanking nonsense. We're not starting Lauri again. The Bulls really can't beat teams with shot blocking (which, IMO, is mainly about Coby just being unable to score on shot blockers). The Knicks are a very good team. Randle was mana from heaven for them.

Theis used up a season's worth of mojo last game.

My Lauri joke aside...I don't mind him at SF. He did a better job on Barrett than he did on Randle.


In this case, the joke's on all the Bulls fans, unfortunately. The starters are getting killed regularly.

Lauri was pretty solid on defense again. When someone scores on him, I think it gets more attention because of his past defensive failings (if I recall correctly, you recently harped on him getting "abused" which has not really happened at all in this last stretch of games). Lauri did a better job on Randle than most in challenging his shots (btw, what a great player Randle has become!) Cannot really ask for more.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#64 » by coldfish » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:59 am

Pentele wrote:
sco wrote:Give up the tanking nonsense. We're not starting Lauri again. The Bulls really can't beat teams with shot blocking (which, IMO, is mainly about Coby just being unable to score on shot blockers). The Knicks are a very good team. Randle was mana from heaven for them.

Theis used up a season's worth of mojo last game.

My Lauri joke aside...I don't mind him at SF. He did a better job on Barrett than he did on Randle.


In this case, the joke's on all the Bulls fans, unfortunately. The starters are getting killed regularly.

Lauri was pretty solid on defense again. When someone scores on him, I think it gets more attention because of his past defensive failings (if I recall correctly, you recently harped on him getting "abused" which has not really happened at all in this last stretch of games). Lauri did a better job on Randle than most in challenging his shots (btw, what a great player Randle has become!) Cannot really ask for more.


There was a play where Randle passed it to a guard who ran behind Randle in a half asses screen. Lauri kind of wandered behind Randle with no awareness and completely screened off Coby setting a better pick on defense than he does on offense. The guard got an uncontested layup and Lauri was noticeably pissed at himself as he got the ball out of the hoop.

Lauri's defense continues to be poor but we are looking at something different.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#65 » by Pentele » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:12 am

coldfish wrote:
Pentele wrote:
sco wrote:Give up the tanking nonsense. We're not starting Lauri again. The Bulls really can't beat teams with shot blocking (which, IMO, is mainly about Coby just being unable to score on shot blockers). The Knicks are a very good team. Randle was mana from heaven for them.

Theis used up a season's worth of mojo last game.

My Lauri joke aside...I don't mind him at SF. He did a better job on Barrett than he did on Randle.


In this case, the joke's on all the Bulls fans, unfortunately. The starters are getting killed regularly.

Lauri was pretty solid on defense again. When someone scores on him, I think it gets more attention because of his past defensive failings (if I recall correctly, you recently harped on him getting "abused" which has not really happened at all in this last stretch of games). Lauri did a better job on Randle than most in challenging his shots (btw, what a great player Randle has become!) Cannot really ask for more.


There was a play where Randle passed it to a guard who ran behind Randle in a half asses screen. Lauri kind of wandered behind Randle with no awareness and completely screened off Coby setting a better pick on defense than he does on offense. The guard got an uncontested layup and Lauri was noticeably pissed at himself as he got the ball out of the hoop.

Lauri's defense continues to be poor but we are looking at something different.


Hmm... yes, he still makes those mistakes at times (frequently? perhaps). I also agree that something has finally switched for him defensively. Before, he was always trying to do the right play offensively, but now he appears to be focusing on doing it defensively as well. Hopefully his cognizance of making those mistakes also leads to a better defensive awareness more generally. It is the first required step on that road anyway.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#66 » by Stratmaster » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:27 am

dukeespn wrote:
SfBull wrote:So the Bulls are a better team without Lavine right?



Do I have to remind you that we were 3-8 when both Vuc & LaVine played and now 4-4 when LaVine didn't play? I think we"ll lose next 4 games in a row and still 4-8 is better than 3-8. Do the simple math if you can.

Also what's the point if the team's winning record itself is still poor when your "all-star" Zach LaVine plays?
The Bulls are now 4-5 when Lavine doesn't play.

The 3-8 you reference was before Temple was back and before Theis was getting starter minutes. Those 2 have been responsible for a resurgence in the Bulls defensive play. It has nothing to do with Lavine. Replacing Coby with Lavine actually improves the defense despite Zach's deficiencies and it sure as hell improves the offensive efficiency.

The Bulls were 3-4 the last 7 games Lavine played with Vuc and 5 of those games were 5 straight road games played in a 7 day span with Lavine playing on a bum ankle.

Context matters. The bar for analysis on this board is way higher than your "simple math".

Step up your game.

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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#67 » by Stratmaster » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:29 am

dukeespn wrote:
SfBull wrote:
dukeespn wrote:

Do I have to remind you that we were 3-8 when both Vuc & LaVine played and now 4-4 when LaVine didn't play? I think we"ll lose next 4 games in a row and still 4-8 is better than 3-8. Do the simple math if you can.

Also what's the point if the team's winning record itself is still poor when your "all-star" Zach LaVine plays?

Seriously?
Zach is our better player by a lot, period.He shouldn't be blamed by playing with a bunch of bad players.There's a chance of building up a good team around him and Vuc,what AK needs to do is try to get better players than we have now.



So that better player achieves what on the Bulls? Making one all-star apperance?

Good to see your fancy player make individual achievement!
I only recall seeing you post recently, and your takes are generally way out there.

Are you just trolling?

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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#68 » by chefo » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:17 pm

coldfish wrote:
Pentele wrote:
sco wrote:Give up the tanking nonsense. We're not starting Lauri again. The Bulls really can't beat teams with shot blocking (which, IMO, is mainly about Coby just being unable to score on shot blockers). The Knicks are a very good team. Randle was mana from heaven for them.

Theis used up a season's worth of mojo last game.

My Lauri joke aside...I don't mind him at SF. He did a better job on Barrett than he did on Randle.


In this case, the joke's on all the Bulls fans, unfortunately. The starters are getting killed regularly.

Lauri was pretty solid on defense again. When someone scores on him, I think it gets more attention because of his past defensive failings (if I recall correctly, you recently harped on him getting "abused" which has not really happened at all in this last stretch of games). Lauri did a better job on Randle than most in challenging his shots (btw, what a great player Randle has become!) Cannot really ask for more.


There was a play where Randle passed it to a guard who ran behind Randle in a half asses screen. Lauri kind of wandered behind Randle with no awareness and completely screened off Coby setting a better pick on defense than he does on offense. The guard got an uncontested layup and Lauri was noticeably pissed at himself as he got the ball out of the hoop.

Lauri's defense continues to be poor but we are looking at something different.


Lauri's still not there as a team defender. What would have been encouraging if he were in the LT plans would be his man D. Last night, there was a stretch where Randle and Barrett went at him 4 times in a very quick succession. 2 misses by Randle and a TO by Berrett. Randle scored a very tough, contested behind the backboard jumper that somehow rattled in, but was an incredibly difficult shot. Given that Randle by that time had already manhandled both Thad and Theis, it was nice to see there's at least 1 guy he couldn't just bully-ball on the team. I was surprised Donovan did not put Lauri on him in the 4th. Lauri's been the only player we've had who's been able to slow him down the 3 times we've played this year. Randle seems to struggle a bit with his size. Thad and Theis are just too small for a guy that physical and big.

About the rest of the game--the Knicks are a better team that plays with much better defensive intensity throughout the game. It's such a Thibs team--have talent to score just enough and just beat the crap out of you on the other end all game. The zebras helped them crack this one open by closing their eyes to some pretty brutal hits and then T'ing us up to make it even more absurd. That Theis foul should have been a flagrant--2 FT + ball because Randle somehow managed to get all face on the contest. And 2(!) refs were right there so the Stevie Wonder award for the night goes to them. Given that it was a pretty close game until the very end, that potentially 7 or 8 (flagrant FTs + ball + Knick 3 + KNick tech FT) point swing on a single really bad non-call was absolutely huge. I'm glad Donovan let them hear about it.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#69 » by sco » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:31 pm

On the Knicks (They're my 2nd fav team - so I watch them), they fit Thib's model so well (unlike Minny) which all seems to start with a rim protecting C (in this case he had 2 elite guys) and your leading scorer, who is also your play maker Randle plus a bunch of offensively efficient role players who are tough defenders. Have 2 of his disciples in Rose and Taj is just gravy. Plus they don't even play Toppin, which is so Thibs. And it's crazy to think they're doing all this without Robinson.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#70 » by Ice Man » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:43 pm

Red8911 wrote:What do you mean not playing for anything now? There are 10 games remaining with 2 games out of that 10th spot. Is it looking more unlikely for them to reach the play in? Sure but they will still try to make it that’s the goal right now. No other choice but to fight it till the end at this point and hope for the best. If they somehow sneak into the play in, then with Zach back anything is possible.


Sure, try. But we have a difficult remaining schedule and the team we're chasing is 9-1 over its past 10 games, and our remaining schedule is more difficult.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#71 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:53 pm

Jeffster81 wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:Bulls, Hawks and Cubs are playing an excellent game of pissing off their fans.

Any reason you chose to leave off the Bears?


They are in their off-season, so they get a pass till August.



True but with the draft I know the bears are in bed and we can hear their colon rumbling
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#72 » by DuckIII » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:31 pm

Rupert wrote:Bulls played decent we were missing our best player they had theirs and he was a beast. No tank we can make it


We weren’t missing our best player. We were thankfully missing a player who all by himself makes us bad and loses us games. Which makes it so confusing that we played bad and lost anyway. I’m not sure what to make of it. Is the world real, or just a creation of my disembodied mind floating through an infinite void?
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#73 » by Ice Man » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:34 pm

DuckIII wrote:We weren’t missing our best player. We were thankfully missing a player who all by himself makes us bad and loses us games. Which makes it so confusing that we played bad and lost anyway. I’m not sure what to make of it. Is the world real, or just a creation of my disembodied mind floating through an infinite void?


You are the only one here who took the red pill.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#74 » by sami71 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:45 pm

Stop blaming Zach for games he doesn't even get to play in. God damnit. Zach is the least of our problems by a large margin.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#75 » by ChettheJet » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:21 pm

It would be a disgrace to say any of the key players has a sore toe or back spasms to close them down for the season in order to tank, but the Bulls will be taking another early vacation. I do think in some of the close games Troy Brown jr could have made a difference stopping the opponent's hot hand and breaking up some runs. But he's out. No they can't win without Zach unless everything goes right for them and wrong for a playoff caliber opponent.

So to me, Billy has to get the word from AKME about who is staying and who is going, play the guys who will be here next year the majority of the minutes and set things up. There's no showcasing for trades few teams are going to get roped in by somebody making a contract run for stats to close out the year. Get PW off the weak side and run the pick and roll with him and Vucevic and Theis, have him start posting up, have him make the high low back cut. Let Troy Brown jr handle the ball and see if he can get minutes at PG off the bench. Keep starting Thies to send him the message they want him long term. Aminu has a uniform let's get him off the bench and see what he's got. The same for Javonte Green.

This year is toast start practice for next year right now
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#76 » by samwana » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:26 pm

We need one heck of an off-season to be able to compete next year.

Someone to lit a fire in Patrick Williams would be nice too.

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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#77 » by Little Nathan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:33 pm

Yeah, that was a pretty good game for the most part considering the circumstances. It's just hard for this group of guys to create offense that is not "Let Vuc cook"-offense. Thought they did a pretty solid job against a tough defense.

Still, the situation is what it is. The play-in doesn't feel realistic anymore, especially with Zach missing even more time, and "out-tanking" Toronto and possibly (but probably not) Sacramento for better lottery odds is just a sad option. The best option, to be fair, but it still sucks.

Like others have said a million times: We need a miracle this offseason. Probably more than one.
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#78 » by Little Nathan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:35 pm

Oh and btw, the improvements Randle made as a shooter in just about every aspect of shooting are just absurd. He was a little too shot-happy multiple times yesterday, but the regularity with which he knocks down his pull-ups and off-the-dribble-3s is just crazy and has been all year. He deserves a ton of credit (a probably an MIP award).
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#79 » by The Force. » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:55 pm

Hey at least we don't have to worry about picking 7th again. Am I right?
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Re: PG: That's a wrap 

Post#80 » by TheFinishSniper » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:00 pm

The Force. wrote:Hey at least we don't have to worry about picking 7th again. Am I right?

I know you joking but we will either pick top 4 or we wont pick at all. That's better than picking 7th. Sounds weird but I am sick enough of level of play, winning and contribution WCJ, Coby and Lauri produced for us. Ill rather pick not at all than pick another one of them.

Bulls also have enough assets left after draft to go in offseason and trade for PG if necessary. And that's what we need. We dont need another goddamn 7th pick scrub
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