Image ImageImage Image

OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

Moderators: HomoSapien, RedBulls23, Michael Jackson, GimmeDat, Payt10, dougthonus, kulaz3000, Tommy Udo 6 , coldfish, Ice Man, DASMACKDOWN, fleet, AshyLarrysDiaper

dice
RealGM
Posts: 38,525
And1: 10,670
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1701 » by dice » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:46 am

Stratmaster wrote:And our offensive genius high flying head coach managed to design (yet again) an offense that managed to get 0 TD passes.

if you think that nagy should call a pass play from the 1 yard line in order to put a TD pass on the board rather than hand the ball to montgomery (particularly after dalton's awful INT), it's a good thing you're not the coach either
"how's fatherhood treating you?"
"so far, so good. no abductions yet" - norm macdonald
dice
RealGM
Posts: 38,525
And1: 10,670
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1702 » by dice » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:49 am

fleet wrote:
CBS7 wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Nagy is meh but I don't agree with this. Chance to cut it do a 1 possession game vs it being a 2 possession game either way

Sure, but the 15 yard pass is what the Rams defense is built to defend. I take the points, the odds are too long

if you're down 6 with a quarter to play and your defense getting carved, you kick the 47 yarder. when you're down 13 it's a much tougher decision
"how's fatherhood treating you?"
"so far, so good. no abductions yet" - norm macdonald
dice
RealGM
Posts: 38,525
And1: 10,670
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1703 » by dice » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:57 am

nomorezorro wrote:headline here is the defense sucks, which means there's 0 reason to go with a competent game manager qb. start fields asap

if the defense continues to suck, nagy will likely take your advice rather quickly in a desperate effort to win. but it will also mean that it makes no difference who the QB is. patrick mahomes can't even hope to compete w/ little defensive help and a broken down O-line. as the super bowl showed
"how's fatherhood treating you?"
"so far, so good. no abductions yet" - norm macdonald
dice
RealGM
Posts: 38,525
And1: 10,670
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1704 » by dice » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:00 am

chicagoballer wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Looks like it's going to be a long season

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app



It’s going to be a long few years. No first round pick next year. Poor O-line. An aging, below-average defense that’s owed a lot of money. A-rob will probably leave. Coaching staff and executives without accountability.

they say that NFL stands for 'no fun league', but it also could stand for 'not for long.' if you're a bad team with a franchise QB, there's always the opportunity to turn things around in a year (or maybe 2 if you've got bad long-term guaranteed contracts)
"how's fatherhood treating you?"
"so far, so good. no abductions yet" - norm macdonald
User avatar
chicagoballer
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,582
And1: 147
Joined: Nov 22, 2004

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1705 » by chicagoballer » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:32 am

dice wrote:
chicagoballer wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Looks like it's going to be a long season

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app



It’s going to be a long few years. No first round pick next year. Poor O-line. An aging, below-average defense that’s owed a lot of money. A-rob will probably leave. Coaching staff and executives without accountability.

they say that NFL stands for 'no fun league', but it also could stand for 'not for long.' if you're a bad team with a franchise QB, there's always the opportunity to turn things around in a year (or maybe 2 if you've got bad long-term guaranteed contracts)


We dont have a franchise QB. Trubisky was our franchise QB until he wasnt. It annoys me when people assume fields is a franchise QB. Odds are that he is not. For fields to earn that title, would take a solid couple years of play. We have a prospect QB.

Correct me if I am wrong... Mack, Jackson, Quinn have HUGE contracts till 2025. Trevathan till 2023. Assuming Fields pans out to be average, 2025 is also when he would be paid. The bears are screwed for awhile.

Justin fields, even if a good QB, cannot fix this team to be top 5. It needs to start with firing of ted phillips and getting a panel of appropriate advisors to hire the next president of the bears. McCaskeys cant do it. If they had care for the bears record, phillips would have been fired already. The new president hopefully will hire the right coach and GM. Then can get some right players and build around them. But again, no first round draft pick next year. And our recent high round draft picks aren't doing well.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 38,525
And1: 10,670
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1706 » by dice » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:46 am

chicagoballer wrote:
dice wrote:
chicagoballer wrote:

It’s going to be a long few years. No first round pick next year. Poor O-line. An aging, below-average defense that’s owed a lot of money. A-rob will probably leave. Coaching staff and executives without accountability.

they say that NFL stands for 'no fun league', but it also could stand for 'not for long.' if you're a bad team with a franchise QB, there's always the opportunity to turn things around in a year (or maybe 2 if you've got bad long-term guaranteed contracts)


We dont have a franchise QB. Trubisky was our franchise QB until he wasnt. It annoys me when people assume fields is a franchise QB. Odds are that he is not. For fields to earn that title, would take a solid couple years of play. We have a prospect QB.

Correct me if I am wrong... Mack, Jackson, Quinn have HUGE contracts till 2025. Trevathan till 2023. Assuming Fields pans out to be average, 2025 is also when he would be paid. The bears are screwed for awhile.

Justin fields, even if a good QB, cannot fix this team to be top 5. It needs to start with firing of ted phillips and getting a panel of appropriate advisors to hire the next president of the bears. McCaskeys cant do it. If they had care for the bears record, phillips would have been fired already. The new president hopefully will hire the right coach and GM. Then can get some right players and build around them. But again, no first round draft pick next year. And our recent high round draft picks aren't doing well.

obviously i'm assuming fields playing like a franchise QB next season. you're correct that he might not, but when you say it's going to be a few long years you are making the opposite assumption that i am - that he WON'T be a franchise QB. guys rarely develop that slowly. we'll probably have a very good idea by the end of this season
"how's fatherhood treating you?"
"so far, so good. no abductions yet" - norm macdonald
mack2354
Senior
Posts: 570
And1: 363
Joined: Jun 03, 2013
       

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1707 » by mack2354 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:10 am

I honestly feel Dalton played a good game. I believe the game plan from the start was to get the ball out quick for short and medium passes. Our offensive line has been terrible to barely average over the last couple of years and we aren't projected to be drastically better in that department this year. Playing against Aaron Donald w/ a great defense and behind a suspect offensive line would have been a ton of sacks had Dalton tried to stand in the pocket for 5 seconds tried to throw deep passes.

The problem on offense in my eyes were our inability to get YAC with our completions and Nagy abandoning the run. Montgomery played great and didn't get nearly as many touches as he should have because Nagy is too pass happy. Fields isn't going to help with either of those problems.

Obviously our defense was poor today. 1 sack and 0 turnovers isn't going to get it done. Our secondary played like scrubs but our defensive line didn't do them any favors letting Stafford stand in the pocket comfortably all game. I have hopes that our playmakers on O will do better going forward and I'm not giving up on Mack/Hicks after 1 game.

The secondary worries me a ton going forward and Nagy's play calling worries me. A game where Montgomery was averaging nearly 7 yards a carry I need him to have more than just 16 carries. Nagy and the secondary lost this game, not Andy Dalton.
sco
RealGM
Posts: 18,234
And1: 5,353
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1708 » by sco » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:47 pm

mack2354 wrote:I honestly feel Dalton played a good game. I believe the game plan from the start was to get the ball out quick for short and medium passes. Our offensive line has been terrible to barely average over the last couple of years and we aren't projected to be drastically better in that department this year. Playing against Aaron Donald w/ a great defense and behind a suspect offensive line would have been a ton of sacks had Dalton tried to stand in the pocket for 5 seconds tried to throw deep passes.

The problem on offense in my eyes were our inability to get YAC with our completions and Nagy abandoning the run. Montgomery played great and didn't get nearly as many touches as he should have because Nagy is too pass happy. Fields isn't going to help with either of those problems.

Obviously our defense was poor today. 1 sack and 0 turnovers isn't going to get it done. Our secondary played like scrubs but our defensive line didn't do them any favors letting Stafford stand in the pocket comfortably all game. I have hopes that our playmakers on O will do better going forward and I'm not giving up on Mack/Hicks after 1 game.

The secondary worries me a ton going forward and Nagy's play calling worries me. A game where Montgomery was averaging nearly 7 yards a carry I need him to have more than just 16 carries. Nagy and the secondary lost this game, not Andy Dalton.

Well said!

I think the question becomes, when does the O-Line get it's act together enough not to leave Fields so vulnerable as to risk mental and physical harm, I am guessing 5 weeks. At that time, we'll likely be 1-4 and the season will effectively be over and they can just make it about development.
:clap:
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 50,471
And1: 10,458
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1709 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:06 pm

Effectively, the Bears lost all the big plays in that game. You turn around that interception early and give the Bears 3 points and you take away teh couple times the Rams had massive pass plays due to complete defensive breakdowns and the Bears outplayed the Rams in the margins for much of the rest of the game.

It doesn't mean a whole lot though, if you can't generate big plays and get beat on big plays regularly, you're an awful team. Just sometimes the big plays are fluky and not a good predictor of the next game. In this case, the Bears lack of ability to generate big plays probably isn't fluky given their o-line. Their ability to defend big plays? who knows, I'd think they have room for improvement.
http://linktr.ee/bullsbeat - links to the bullsbeat podcast
@doug_thonus on twitter
User avatar
Susan
RealGM
Posts: 19,220
And1: 5,922
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Location: jackfinn & Scott May appreciation society
     

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1710 » by Susan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:26 pm

Read on Twitter
I made a drink company. www.wearebesteas.com - trying to push unsweetened drinks forward and make them accessible and affordable for everyone.
jmajew
Rookie
Posts: 1,028
And1: 265
Joined: Feb 12, 2009
         

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1711 » by jmajew » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:50 pm

Matt Nagy should be fired for his game management immediately. I'm sorry going for it on 4th and 4 from the Rams 41 on our second possession and 4th and 4 from the Rams 38 on our third possession cost us the game. You need to play a field position game. I'm not saying run the ball and play super conservative. I'm saying when you have the chance to pin a team twice deep in their own zone you do it. There is a big difference between a smart risk and a stupid risk. He is taking stupid risks. This man needs to go.
ATRAIN53
Head Coach
Posts: 6,997
And1: 2,254
Joined: Dec 14, 2007
Location: Chicago

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1712 » by ATRAIN53 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:52 pm

dice wrote:
fleet wrote:
CBS7 wrote:
Nagy is meh but I don't agree with this. Chance to cut it do a 1 possession game vs it being a 2 possession game either way

Sure, but the 15 yard pass is what the Rams defense is built to defend. I take the points, the odds are too long

if you're down 6 with a quarter to play and your defense getting carved, you kick the 47 yarder. when you're down 13 it's a much tougher decision



gonna be a long season....

Wow on Wilbon going off on Nagy. He loves his Bears.
A handful of podcasters have him as first coach fired.

Seems like a good time since we really have no offense or defense.

Montgomery is def running for a big payday. He knew we were the featured game and we have a few this year he can show his stuff.
Will he run like that vs the Lions and other garbage games.....

Glad Fields saw some action.

and nothign better than seeing the Packers get demolished.
Loved Rodgers Steven Segal look yesterday.
IliketheBullsNBearstoo
Analyst
Posts: 3,253
And1: 420
Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Location: The OC
     

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1713 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:56 pm

jmajew wrote:Matt Nagy should be fired for his game management immediately. I'm sorry going for it on 4th and 4 from the Rams 41 on our second possession and 4th and 4 from the Rams 38 on our third possession cost us the game. You need to play a field position game. I'm not saying run the ball and play super conservative. I'm saying when you have the chance to pin a team twice deep in their own zone you do it. There is a big difference between a smart risk and a stupid risk. He is taking stupid risks. This man needs to go.


The one that really got me was the 4th and 15. Just kick the field goal. You have to get 15 yards! He's making the game harder than it needs to be. If we had KC's offensive players then fine, yes be aggressive its 2021, but we don't.
jmajew
Rookie
Posts: 1,028
And1: 265
Joined: Feb 12, 2009
         

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1714 » by jmajew » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:02 pm

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
jmajew wrote:Matt Nagy should be fired for his game management immediately. I'm sorry going for it on 4th and 4 from the Rams 41 on our second possession and 4th and 4 from the Rams 38 on our third possession cost us the game. You need to play a field position game. I'm not saying run the ball and play super conservative. I'm saying when you have the chance to pin a team twice deep in their own zone you do it. There is a big difference between a smart risk and a stupid risk. He is taking stupid risks. This man needs to go.


The one that really got me was the 4th and 15. Just kick the field goal. You have to get 15 yards! He's making the game harder than it needs to be. If we had KC's offensive players then fine, yes be aggressive its 2021, but we don't.


When you look at it in the context of the entire game he only felt the need to go for it on 4th and 15 because he gave the Rams great field position on the drives immediately after the first two. Both of those drives ended with FGs. Its very possible they could have ended with punts which means we could have ended the first half tied or at worst down 3. His decision making is our biggest weakness. His playing calling is sound, its just his game management.
IliketheBullsNBearstoo
Analyst
Posts: 3,253
And1: 420
Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Location: The OC
     

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1715 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:04 pm

jmajew wrote:
IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
jmajew wrote:Matt Nagy should be fired for his game management immediately. I'm sorry going for it on 4th and 4 from the Rams 41 on our second possession and 4th and 4 from the Rams 38 on our third possession cost us the game. You need to play a field position game. I'm not saying run the ball and play super conservative. I'm saying when you have the chance to pin a team twice deep in their own zone you do it. There is a big difference between a smart risk and a stupid risk. He is taking stupid risks. This man needs to go.


The one that really got me was the 4th and 15. Just kick the field goal. You have to get 15 yards! He's making the game harder than it needs to be. If we had KC's offensive players then fine, yes be aggressive its 2021, but we don't.


When you look at it in the context of the entire game he only felt the need to go for it on 4th and 15 because he gave the Rams great field position on the drives immediately after the first two. Both of those drives ended with FGs. Its very possible they could have ended with punts which means we could have ended the first half tied or at worst down 3. His decision making is our biggest weakness. His playing calling is sound, its just his game management.


You had me agreeing until you said his play calling is sound. Yes his game management stinks. It has since he's been here. The game plan to take whats given to you underneath? I'm not giving Nagy any credit for that.
User avatar
Chicago-Bull-E
RealGM
Posts: 12,619
And1: 4,592
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1716 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:13 pm

I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.
KC: Do you still think you're a championship-caliber team?
Gar: I never said that and correct me if I'm wrong
IliketheBullsNBearstoo
Analyst
Posts: 3,253
And1: 420
Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Location: The OC
     

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1717 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:21 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.


McVay makes Nagy look like he doesn't belong in the league. Did it last year too.
User avatar
Chicago-Bull-E
RealGM
Posts: 12,619
And1: 4,592
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1718 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:27 pm

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.


McVay makes Nagy look like he doesn't belong in the league. Did it last year too.


McVay is elite. Really big fan of his.

But, he has had better quarterbacks the last 2 years. Better receiving corps. He has the best defensive player in the entire league, and an elite corner/secondary player in Ramsey. The personnel of the two teams is very far apart to me. Monte is probably better than their running backs. Any other Bears unit coming out on top?

But yeah, I think McVay is at worst a top 5 coach, and Nagy probably somewhere in the 15-20 range.
KC: Do you still think you're a championship-caliber team?
Gar: I never said that and correct me if I'm wrong
User avatar
TheSuzerain
RealGM
Posts: 14,701
And1: 9,492
Joined: Mar 29, 2012

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1719 » by TheSuzerain » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:35 pm

The 4th down conversion attempts were the correct decision.

Nagy is going to get major heat with regards to Fields/Dalton, but that's more about what the fans want to see on their TV screen rather than anything to do with Fields long-term development which is the most important factor here.

Above all else, the team has personnel issues. The defense is fading and the offense has mediocre talent around the QB. I think it would probably be wise to liquidate the talent on the defense (even Roquan) for as many draft picks as we can gather. That way we can build up the offense first and then you start building up the defense.
User avatar
chicagoballer
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,582
And1: 147
Joined: Nov 22, 2004

Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1720 » by chicagoballer » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:49 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:The 4th down conversion attempts were the correct decision.

Nagy is going to get major heat with regards to Fields/Dalton, but that's more about what the fans want to see on their TV screen rather than anything to do with Fields long-term development which is the most important factor here.

Above all else, the team has personnel issues. The defense is fading and the offense has mediocre talent around the QB. I think it would probably be wise to liquidate the talent on the defense (even Roquan) for as many draft picks as we can gather. That way we can build up the offense first and then you start building up the defense.


I agree, but all executives need to change too. need an Bulls-AKME level rebuild. Get rid of all the old stench

Trade Khalil Mack too. His value is only going to go lower from here.

Return to Chicago Bulls