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OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1721 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:03 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.
Except, the Bears didn't look out-manned. They looked out-coached.

They weren't getting pushed around. It was blown coverages that burned them defensively, not being overmatched. Not touching a receiver on the ground and letting him get back up and score. An inability to put an offense together that can score through the air (despite being an offensive genius). Always undisciplined and the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

I was actually impressed at the lack of penalties. Usually the Bears are so unprepared it shows in the penalties but I think they were relatively clean after the early false start yesterday, which is unusual for a Nagy offense. I was also impressed that he stayed with the running game, although for 1 series early I was beginning to wonder.



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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1722 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:54 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.
Except, the Bears didn't look out-manned. They looked out-coached.

They weren't getting pushed around. It was blown coverages that burned them defensively, not being overmatched. Not touching a receiver on the ground and letting him get back up and score. An inability to put an offense together that can score through the air (despite being an offensive genius). Always undisciplined and the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

I was actually impressed at the lack of penalties. Usually the Bears are so unprepared it shows in the penalties but I think they were relatively clean after the early false start yesterday, which is unusual for a Nagy offense. I was also impressed that he stayed with the running game, although for 1 series early I was beginning to wonder.



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Their offensive line was get blown up on pass coverage. Most plays the offensive lineman struggled to get a hand on Donald. It was actually coaching, 3 step drops, and fast deliveries that saved that unit, which the announcing crew talked about all game. 2.1 second release time was faster than the best in the league last year. The Bears had a gameplan to save that unit, and it largely worked. Thats coaching.

On defense, the blown coverages are mental mistakes that fall on the players. Some players are high IQ guys and some aren't, and that speaks to the quality of the player. They aren't all on the same level. The defensive line seemed to run a number of stunts and twists to try and get past the offensive line. But I'm not a big fan of Sean Desai, so if you want to blame someone, it would be him. Nagy isn't running defensive schemes during practice with the team. Operation is much larger than that.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1723 » by Chi town » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:12 pm

I'm ok with Pace and Nagy both being gone.

I also expect D to make some plays and Eddie J and Mack to wake up. Don't think they are this bad.

I think Nagy is proving he doesn't have the goods.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1724 » by Dresden » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:25 pm

jmajew wrote:Matt Nagy should be fired for his game management immediately. I'm sorry going for it on 4th and 4 from the Rams 41 on our second possession and 4th and 4 from the Rams 38 on our third possession cost us the game. You need to play a field position game. I'm not saying run the ball and play super conservative. I'm saying when you have the chance to pin a team twice deep in their own zone you do it. There is a big difference between a smart risk and a stupid risk. He is taking stupid risks. This man needs to go.


I don't think either of those decisions were bad. Certainly not getting someone fired bad. With how our defense was playing, it didn't matter if the Rams had to go 90 yards or 60. So the logical thing to do is try to keep up with them by scoring and not punting.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1725 » by Dresden » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:31 pm

mack2354 wrote:I honestly feel Dalton played a good game. I believe the game plan from the start was to get the ball out quick for short and medium passes. Our offensive line has been terrible to barely average over the last couple of years and we aren't projected to be drastically better in that department this year. Playing against Aaron Donald w/ a great defense and behind a suspect offensive line would have been a ton of sacks had Dalton tried to stand in the pocket for 5 seconds tried to throw deep passes.

The problem on offense in my eyes were our inability to get YAC with our completions and Nagy abandoning the run. Montgomery played great and didn't get nearly as many touches as he should have because Nagy is too pass happy. Fields isn't going to help with either of those problems.

Obviously our defense was poor today. 1 sack and 0 turnovers isn't going to get it done. Our secondary played like scrubs but our defensive line didn't do them any favors letting Stafford stand in the pocket comfortably all game. I have hopes that our playmakers on O will do better going forward and I'm not giving up on Mack/Hicks after 1 game.

The secondary worries me a ton going forward and Nagy's play calling worries me. A game where Montgomery was averaging nearly 7 yards a carry I need him to have more than just 16 carries. Nagy and the secondary lost this game, not Andy Dalton.


I agree, you can't pin this loss on Andy Dalton, or believe that Fields would have been any better. I was impressed with how many balls Dalton completed, and how quick and accurate his throws were. We would have been in this game, if not for the defensive blunders.

I thought the pass/run mix was spot on, until late in the game when the outcome was decided. Up until then, they were doing a great job of mixing it up.

At some point, you do have to take some shots down the field though, no matter how bad the line is. It's just asking too much of the offense to move the ball 80 yards on 5 yards plays. They did have a couple of impressive long drives, but you need a few big plays sprinkled in there, too.

All in all, I thought the offense wasn't bad. Certainly not great, but much better than what we've seen. They ran the ball well, they moved the chains, they completed passes when they needed to. There's something to build on there. But until they get that line fixed, there's only so much they can do.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1726 » by Kurt Heimlich » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:33 pm

Nagy is an easy and deserved scapegoat. But the rams are just way more talented on both sides than us. Not saying we couldnt beat them but on paper the rams are the better team and they have a top of the class football mind pulling the strings whereas the bears do not.

Dalton was okish, the endzone int didnt look great to me and I thought he missed spotting some open receivers in critical moments (kmet specifically on one of the 4th downs). But the defense looked pedestrian at best and just incompetent on those big plays.

As expected this team is only interesting for the Fields speculation until he gets the job full time. Until then nagy and pace can also serve as deserved whipping boys.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1727 » by Dresden » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:37 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.
Except, the Bears didn't look out-manned. They looked out-coached.

They weren't getting pushed around. It was blown coverages that burned them defensively, not being overmatched. Not touching a receiver on the ground and letting him get back up and score. An inability to put an offense together that can score through the air (despite being an offensive genius). Always undisciplined and the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

I was actually impressed at the lack of penalties. Usually the Bears are so unprepared it shows in the penalties but I think they were relatively clean after the early false start yesterday, which is unusual for a Nagy offense. I was also impressed that he stayed with the running game, although for 1 series early I was beginning to wonder.



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I thought they looked out-manned. Esp. on defense. They made very few big plays- no turnovers, maybe 1 sack. Not even many pass break ups. They were a step slow all around. They were unable to beat their guys at the line of scrimmage and put any pressure on Stafford.

On offense, our line looked over-matched. On the replays, you could see guys flailing- trying to get a hand on someone that was going right around them. The gameplan did a good job of covering for that, and Dalton did a good job of carrying out the game plan. But it's like playing with one arm tied behind your back if you can't throw a pass over 15 yards because your line won't be able to contain the rush for more than 2 seconds.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1728 » by Susan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:55 pm

This season starts after week 3. Cleveland and LAR are both Super Bowl contenders and at home.

Washington needs a QB. Call em and ask them to take their pick between Dalton and Foles. We don't need both.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1729 » by jmajew » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:21 pm

Dresden wrote:
jmajew wrote:Matt Nagy should be fired for his game management immediately. I'm sorry going for it on 4th and 4 from the Rams 41 on our second possession and 4th and 4 from the Rams 38 on our third possession cost us the game. You need to play a field position game. I'm not saying run the ball and play super conservative. I'm saying when you have the chance to pin a team twice deep in their own zone you do it. There is a big difference between a smart risk and a stupid risk. He is taking stupid risks. This man needs to go.


I don't think either of those decisions were bad. Certainly not getting someone fired bad. With how our defense was playing, it didn't matter if the Rams had to go 90 yards or 60. So the logical thing to do is try to keep up with them by scoring and not punting.


They were bad because they were our 2nd and 3rd possessions of the game. On those two drives after those series the rams went 28 and 54 yards before kicking a field goal. If worst case scenario both kicks were touchbacks they would have ended those series at their own 48 yard line and at the bears 36 yard line. I'm sorry those decisions changed the game. I know later in the game our defense got blown up, but maybe they wouldn't have if they got put in better positions to succeed. To me those decisions are just a microcosm of Nagy's entire coaching career.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1730 » by the ultimates » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:15 pm

We know the offensive line isn't great but giving Nagy that excuse needs to stop. Why, because he doesn't call a game like he has a questionable line. Protecting your offensive line is more than just short passes. You leave a tight end or two to block you leave the running back in. Go to a two-back set and let one or both stay into block or chip and release. The Rams got their first touchdown off of a play-action max protect rollout. Nagy will call some of those plays randomly on occasion but it's clear it's not a part of his philosophy.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1731 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:39 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.
Except, the Bears didn't look out-manned. They looked out-coached.

They weren't getting pushed around. It was blown coverages that burned them defensively, not being overmatched. Not touching a receiver on the ground and letting him get back up and score. An inability to put an offense together that can score through the air (despite being an offensive genius). Always undisciplined and the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

I was actually impressed at the lack of penalties. Usually the Bears are so unprepared it shows in the penalties but I think they were relatively clean after the early false start yesterday, which is unusual for a Nagy offense. I was also impressed that he stayed with the running game, although for 1 series early I was beginning to wonder.



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Their offensive line was get blown up on pass coverage. Most plays the offensive lineman struggled to get a hand on Donald. It was actually coaching, 3 step drops, and fast deliveries that saved that unit, which the announcing crew talked about all game. 2.1 second release time was faster than the best in the league last year. The Bears had a gameplan to save that unit, and it largely worked. Thats coaching.

On defense, the blown coverages are mental mistakes that fall on the players. Some players are high IQ guys and some aren't, and that speaks to the quality of the player. They aren't all on the same level. The defensive line seemed to run a number of stunts and twists to try and get past the offensive line. But I'm not a big fan of Sean Desai, so if you want to blame someone, it would be him. Nagy isn't running defensive schemes during practice with the team. Operation is much larger than that.
If this game were an anomaly it would be different. The Bears always make those "individual mental mistakes". Game after game. Year after year. I guess all Bears players are just lower IQ than the rest of the league?

And then you think Nagy should be able to wash his hands and separate himself from the rest of his coaching staff? It doesn't work that way. It's his coaching staff.

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1732 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:49 pm

Dresden wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:I actually liked the 4th down conversion attempts. The field goal is the coach safe approach, playing not to look like a game is a blowout. Scoreboard watching, if you will. Nagy was interested in winning the football game. Of course, if the unconventional approach doesn't work, then you need to answer to that.

It's just so painfully clear to me the personnel of this team isn't good enough. I don't think Nagy is anything special, and won't show any devastation if he's gone, but to me he's a better coach than Pace is a gm, who is the real problem.

Coach is the easy person to blame. How many of his units are in the bottom half of the league? Every unit aside from defensive line and MAYBE running back? They're going to be bad folks, unless Fields comes in and looks like Russell Wilson immediately.
Except, the Bears didn't look out-manned. They looked out-coached.

They weren't getting pushed around. It was blown coverages that burned them defensively, not being overmatched. Not touching a receiver on the ground and letting him get back up and score. An inability to put an offense together that can score through the air (despite being an offensive genius). Always undisciplined and the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

I was actually impressed at the lack of penalties. Usually the Bears are so unprepared it shows in the penalties but I think they were relatively clean after the early false start yesterday, which is unusual for a Nagy offense. I was also impressed that he stayed with the running game, although for 1 series early I was beginning to wonder.



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I thought they looked out-manned. Esp. on defense. They made very few big plays- no turnovers, maybe 1 sack. Not even many pass break ups. They were a step slow all around. They were unable to beat their guys at the line of scrimmage and put any pressure on Stafford.

On offense, our line looked over-matched. On the replays, you could see guys flailing- trying to get a hand on someone that was going right around them. The gameplan did a good job of covering for that, and Dalton did a good job of carrying out the game plan. But it's like playing with one arm tied behind your back if you can't throw a pass over 15 yards because your line won't be able to contain the rush for more than 2 seconds.
The Bears had more first downs, ran more plays, dominated the time of possession especially early.

They got beat on two big plays, broken coverages, and lack of discipline. All the 4th down attempts were ridiculous. The passing game and the play calling was unimaginative, and in the couple cases where he tried to get creative it was just gimmicky, not a well thought out reaction to what was happenimg in the game.

Did the Bears throw a single screen pass. I expect I had to have missed it because any 15 year old football fan would have tried to get Montgomery out on a screen so I am sure they tried it a couple times, right?

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1733 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:05 pm

Dresden wrote:
mack2354 wrote:I honestly feel Dalton played a good game. I believe the game plan from the start was to get the ball out quick for short and medium passes. Our offensive line has been terrible to barely average over the last couple of years and we aren't projected to be drastically better in that department this year. Playing against Aaron Donald w/ a great defense and behind a suspect offensive line would have been a ton of sacks had Dalton tried to stand in the pocket for 5 seconds tried to throw deep passes.

The problem on offense in my eyes were our inability to get YAC with our completions and Nagy abandoning the run. Montgomery played great and didn't get nearly as many touches as he should have because Nagy is too pass happy. Fields isn't going to help with either of those problems.

Obviously our defense was poor today. 1 sack and 0 turnovers isn't going to get it done. Our secondary played like scrubs but our defensive line didn't do them any favors letting Stafford stand in the pocket comfortably all game. I have hopes that our playmakers on O will do better going forward and I'm not giving up on Mack/Hicks after 1 game.

The secondary worries me a ton going forward and Nagy's play calling worries me. A game where Montgomery was averaging nearly 7 yards a carry I need him to have more than just 16 carries. Nagy and the secondary lost this game, not Andy Dalton.


I agree, you can't pin this loss on Andy Dalton, or believe that Fields would have been any better. I was impressed with how many balls Dalton completed, and how quick and accurate his throws were. We would have been in this game, if not for the defensive blunders.

I thought the pass/run mix was spot on, until late in the game when the outcome was decided. Up until then, they were doing a great job of mixing it up.

At some point, you do have to take some shots down the field though, no matter how bad the line is. It's just asking too much of the offense to move the ball 80 yards on 5 yards plays. They did have a couple of impressive long drives, but you need a few big plays sprinkled in there, too.

All in all, I thought the offense wasn't bad. Certainly not great, but much better than what we've seen. They ran the ball well, they moved the chains, they completed passes when they needed to. There's something to build on there. But until they get that line fixed, there's only so much they can do.



I think Dalton had a decent game as well. But I would say most of it was just what the Rams were willing to give him. Fields may have been able to extend some plays. Also it helps if you have a QB that can roll out and run some bootlegs. Keeps the defense a little more honest which might open up some of those shots down the field.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1734 » by nomorezorro » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:56 pm

having big strong opinions on the coaching in the game where the bears leaned incredibly heavy on short, quick passes and then posting "did they try a screen, i don't remember but they should have!" is pretty funny
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1735 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:08 pm

nomorezorro wrote:having big strong opinions on the coaching in the game where the bears leaned incredibly heavy on short, quick passes and then posting "did they try a screen, i don't remember but they should have!" is pretty funny
Please explain.

Do you not understand the difference between a screen pass and continual 5 yard quick passes down the middle?

Do you not understand trying to get the ball into Montgomery's hands on the edge?

Do you not know that the screen play is a strategic weapon when you are concerned about pass protection?

What exactly was funny or contradictory in what I said?

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1736 » by nomorezorro » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:23 pm

what was funny is that they ran several screens in that game
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1737 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:34 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Except, the Bears didn't look out-manned. They looked out-coached.

They weren't getting pushed around. It was blown coverages that burned them defensively, not being overmatched. Not touching a receiver on the ground and letting him get back up and score. An inability to put an offense together that can score through the air (despite being an offensive genius). Always undisciplined and the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

I was actually impressed at the lack of penalties. Usually the Bears are so unprepared it shows in the penalties but I think they were relatively clean after the early false start yesterday, which is unusual for a Nagy offense. I was also impressed that he stayed with the running game, although for 1 series early I was beginning to wonder.



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Their offensive line was get blown up on pass coverage. Most plays the offensive lineman struggled to get a hand on Donald. It was actually coaching, 3 step drops, and fast deliveries that saved that unit, which the announcing crew talked about all game. 2.1 second release time was faster than the best in the league last year. The Bears had a gameplan to save that unit, and it largely worked. Thats coaching.

On defense, the blown coverages are mental mistakes that fall on the players. Some players are high IQ guys and some aren't, and that speaks to the quality of the player. They aren't all on the same level. The defensive line seemed to run a number of stunts and twists to try and get past the offensive line. But I'm not a big fan of Sean Desai, so if you want to blame someone, it would be him. Nagy isn't running defensive schemes during practice with the team. Operation is much larger than that.
If this game were an anomaly it would be different. The Bears always make those "individual mental mistakes". Game after game. Year after year. I guess all Bears players are just lower IQ than the rest of the league?

And then you think Nagy should be able to wash his hands and separate himself from the rest of his coaching staff? It doesn't work that way. It's his coaching staff.

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The Bears as an entire team make mental mistakes over and over and are low IQ? Did Monty play low IQ yesterday? Did Dalton play low IQ? Did Fields, did the special teams?

Was the defense low IQ 2 years ago? That was Nagy. If it was all on Nagy, then why were they one of the best in the league under him and now aren't? He's unchanged, right?

You can blame him for everything, but hopefully the people making decisions are a bit more nuanced than that.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1738 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:03 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
Their offensive line was get blown up on pass coverage. Most plays the offensive lineman struggled to get a hand on Donald. It was actually coaching, 3 step drops, and fast deliveries that saved that unit, which the announcing crew talked about all game. 2.1 second release time was faster than the best in the league last year. The Bears had a gameplan to save that unit, and it largely worked. Thats coaching.

On defense, the blown coverages are mental mistakes that fall on the players. Some players are high IQ guys and some aren't, and that speaks to the quality of the player. They aren't all on the same level. The defensive line seemed to run a number of stunts and twists to try and get past the offensive line. But I'm not a big fan of Sean Desai, so if you want to blame someone, it would be him. Nagy isn't running defensive schemes during practice with the team. Operation is much larger than that.
If this game were an anomaly it would be different. The Bears always make those "individual mental mistakes". Game after game. Year after year. I guess all Bears players are just lower IQ than the rest of the league?

And then you think Nagy should be able to wash his hands and separate himself from the rest of his coaching staff? It doesn't work that way. It's his coaching staff.

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The Bears as an entire team make mental mistakes over and over and are low IQ? Did Monty play low IQ yesterday? Did Dalton play low IQ? Did Fields, did the special teams?

Was the defense low IQ 2 years ago? That was Nagy. If it was all on Nagy, then why were they one of the best in the league under him and now aren't? He's unchanged, right?

You can blame him for everything, but hopefully the people making decisions are a bit more nuanced than that.
The Bears always look like the worst coached team on the field.

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1739 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:05 pm

nomorezorro wrote:what was funny is that they ran several screens in that game
Montgomery caught 1 pass. If you are talking about quick bubble passes, those aren't traditional screens. They are just another quick release pass that has other receivers setting screens.

I am talking about drop back, let the rush come, wait and throw the ball to your halfback wth linemen in front of him. As I said, I might have missed them. Point me to them.

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1740 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:43 pm

nomorezorro wrote:what was funny is that they ran several screens in that game


That's not true. I've been calling for Nagy to run more screen passes to Montgomery for a couple years now. Its a great way to catch over pursuing defensive lines off guard and keep them off balanced throughout the game and to get the ball into Montgomery's hands in some open space and let him do his thing.

Just need to get Montgomery more involved in the passing game when we fall behind. He's a weapon.

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