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OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1741 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:49 pm

Read on Twitter


This made me laugh
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1742 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:59 pm

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:what was funny is that they ran several screens in that game


That's not true. I've been calling for Nagy to run more screen passes to Montgomery for a couple years now. Its a great way to catch over pursuing defensive lines off guard and keep them off balanced throughout the game and to get the ball into Montgomery's hands in some open space and let him do his thing.

Just need to get Montgomery more involved in the passing game when we fall behind. He's a weapon.
Exactly.

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1743 » by Dresden » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:13 pm

jmajew wrote:
Dresden wrote:
jmajew wrote:Matt Nagy should be fired for his game management immediately. I'm sorry going for it on 4th and 4 from the Rams 41 on our second possession and 4th and 4 from the Rams 38 on our third possession cost us the game. You need to play a field position game. I'm not saying run the ball and play super conservative. I'm saying when you have the chance to pin a team twice deep in their own zone you do it. There is a big difference between a smart risk and a stupid risk. He is taking stupid risks. This man needs to go.


I don't think either of those decisions were bad. Certainly not getting someone fired bad. With how our defense was playing, it didn't matter if the Rams had to go 90 yards or 60. So the logical thing to do is try to keep up with them by scoring and not punting.


They were bad because they were our 2nd and 3rd possessions of the game. On those two drives after those series the rams went 28 and 54 yards before kicking a field goal. If worst case scenario both kicks were touchbacks they would have ended those series at their own 48 yard line and at the bears 36 yard line. I'm sorry those decisions changed the game. I know later in the game our defense got blown up, but maybe they wouldn't have if they got put in better positions to succeed. To me those decisions are just a microcosm of Nagy's entire coaching career.


Except that those are spots on the field where a lot of teams will go for it. Just outside of FG range, but close enough that you might only pick up 15 yards on a punt. I believe the odds, too, say that teams ought to go for it more often on 4th down than they do. The fact that we only gave up 6 points even though we failed on both attempts make them look like even better gambles to me. And who knows, it might have gotten the offense used to the pressure of converting on 4th down, which could lead to more success in the future.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1744 » by Dresden » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:17 pm

the ultimates wrote:We know the offensive line isn't great but giving Nagy that excuse needs to stop. Why, because he doesn't call a game like he has a questionable line. Protecting your offensive line is more than just short passes. You leave a tight end or two to block you leave the running back in. Go to a two-back set and let one or both stay into block or chip and release. The Rams got their first touchdown off of a play-action max protect rollout. Nagy will call some of those plays randomly on occasion but it's clear it's not a part of his philosophy.


Why should it stop? It's like saying stop talking about the huge hole in the middle of the road that we have to drive over every day, because if you stop talking about it, pretty soon it will cease to exist. The line sucks at pass protection, and it has for years now, and we've seen the effect that has on our mid and deep passing games. The QB is running for his life after a few seconds, often getting sacked and/or fumbling, which in turn puts us in second or third and long situations, which we can't get out of.

Much better to just keep picking up 5-6 yards at a crack, avoiding big losses and turnovers. But until the line improves, having time to throw a 30 yard pass pattern is very problematic.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1745 » by Dresden » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:19 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
Dresden wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Except, the Bears didn't look out-manned. They looked out-coached.

They weren't getting pushed around. It was blown coverages that burned them defensively, not being overmatched. Not touching a receiver on the ground and letting him get back up and score. An inability to put an offense together that can score through the air (despite being an offensive genius). Always undisciplined and the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

I was actually impressed at the lack of penalties. Usually the Bears are so unprepared it shows in the penalties but I think they were relatively clean after the early false start yesterday, which is unusual for a Nagy offense. I was also impressed that he stayed with the running game, although for 1 series early I was beginning to wonder.



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I thought they looked out-manned. Esp. on defense. They made very few big plays- no turnovers, maybe 1 sack. Not even many pass break ups. They were a step slow all around. They were unable to beat their guys at the line of scrimmage and put any pressure on Stafford.

On offense, our line looked over-matched. On the replays, you could see guys flailing- trying to get a hand on someone that was going right around them. The gameplan did a good job of covering for that, and Dalton did a good job of carrying out the game plan. But it's like playing with one arm tied behind your back if you can't throw a pass over 15 yards because your line won't be able to contain the rush for more than 2 seconds.
The Bears had more first downs, ran more plays, dominated the time of possession especially early.

They got beat on two big plays, broken coverages, and lack of discipline. All the 4th down attempts were ridiculous. The passing game and the play calling was unimaginative, and in the couple cases where he tried to get creative it was just gimmicky, not a well thought out reaction to what was happenimg in the game.

Did the Bears throw a single screen pass. I expect I had to have missed it because any 15 year old football fan would have tried to get Montgomery out on a screen so I am sure they tried it a couple times, right?

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The only reasons the bears had more first downs, more TOP, etc., was because the defense was so bad it was taking the Rams just a few plays and a few minutes to score every time they had the ball. It wasn't because we were just dominating them.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1746 » by Dresden » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:21 pm

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
Dresden wrote:
mack2354 wrote:I honestly feel Dalton played a good game. I believe the game plan from the start was to get the ball out quick for short and medium passes. Our offensive line has been terrible to barely average over the last couple of years and we aren't projected to be drastically better in that department this year. Playing against Aaron Donald w/ a great defense and behind a suspect offensive line would have been a ton of sacks had Dalton tried to stand in the pocket for 5 seconds tried to throw deep passes.

The problem on offense in my eyes were our inability to get YAC with our completions and Nagy abandoning the run. Montgomery played great and didn't get nearly as many touches as he should have because Nagy is too pass happy. Fields isn't going to help with either of those problems.

Obviously our defense was poor today. 1 sack and 0 turnovers isn't going to get it done. Our secondary played like scrubs but our defensive line didn't do them any favors letting Stafford stand in the pocket comfortably all game. I have hopes that our playmakers on O will do better going forward and I'm not giving up on Mack/Hicks after 1 game.

The secondary worries me a ton going forward and Nagy's play calling worries me. A game where Montgomery was averaging nearly 7 yards a carry I need him to have more than just 16 carries. Nagy and the secondary lost this game, not Andy Dalton.


I agree, you can't pin this loss on Andy Dalton, or believe that Fields would have been any better. I was impressed with how many balls Dalton completed, and how quick and accurate his throws were. We would have been in this game, if not for the defensive blunders.

I thought the pass/run mix was spot on, until late in the game when the outcome was decided. Up until then, they were doing a great job of mixing it up.

At some point, you do have to take some shots down the field though, no matter how bad the line is. It's just asking too much of the offense to move the ball 80 yards on 5 yards plays. They did have a couple of impressive long drives, but you need a few big plays sprinkled in there, too.

All in all, I thought the offense wasn't bad. Certainly not great, but much better than what we've seen. They ran the ball well, they moved the chains, they completed passes when they needed to. There's something to build on there. But until they get that line fixed, there's only so much they can do.



I think Dalton had a decent game as well. But I would say most of it was just what the Rams were willing to give him. Fields may have been able to extend some plays. Also it helps if you have a QB that can roll out and run some bootlegs. Keeps the defense a little more honest which might open up some of those shots down the field.


True, but I also wonder if Fields could have been as accurate and quick with his throws as Dalton was.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1747 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:33 pm

Dresden wrote:
the ultimates wrote:We know the offensive line isn't great but giving Nagy that excuse needs to stop. Why, because he doesn't call a game like he has a questionable line. Protecting your offensive line is more than just short passes. You leave a tight end or two to block you leave the running back in. Go to a two-back set and let one or both stay into block or chip and release. The Rams got their first touchdown off of a play-action max protect rollout. Nagy will call some of those plays randomly on occasion but it's clear it's not a part of his philosophy.


Why should it stop? It's like saying stop talking about the huge hole in the middle of the road that we have to drive over every day, because if you stop talking about it, pretty soon it will cease to exist. The line sucks at pass protection, and it has for years now, and we've seen the effect that has on our mid and deep passing games. The QB is running for his life after a few seconds, often getting sacked and/or fumbling, which in turn puts us in second or third and long situations, which we can't get out of.

Much better to just keep picking up 5-6 yards at a crack, avoiding big losses and turnovers. But until the line improves, having time to throw a 30 yard pass pattern is very problematic.
There are 25 yards between a 5 yard pass and a 30 yard pass. Somewhere in the middle would be nice... but I acknowledge your point. The OL has been bad for what seems like forever.

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1748 » by Stratmaster » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:37 pm

Dresden wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Dresden wrote:
I thought they looked out-manned. Esp. on defense. They made very few big plays- no turnovers, maybe 1 sack. Not even many pass break ups. They were a step slow all around. They were unable to beat their guys at the line of scrimmage and put any pressure on Stafford.

On offense, our line looked over-matched. On the replays, you could see guys flailing- trying to get a hand on someone that was going right around them. The gameplan did a good job of covering for that, and Dalton did a good job of carrying out the game plan. But it's like playing with one arm tied behind your back if you can't throw a pass over 15 yards because your line won't be able to contain the rush for more than 2 seconds.
The Bears had more first downs, ran more plays, dominated the time of possession especially early.

They got beat on two big plays, broken coverages, and lack of discipline. All the 4th down attempts were ridiculous. The passing game and the play calling was unimaginative, and in the couple cases where he tried to get creative it was just gimmicky, not a well thought out reaction to what was happenimg in the game.

Did the Bears throw a single screen pass. I expect I had to have missed it because any 15 year old football fan would have tried to get Montgomery out on a screen so I am sure they tried it a couple times, right?

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The only reasons the bears had more first downs, more TOP, etc., was because the defense was so bad it was taking the Rams just a few plays and a few minutes to score every time they had the ball. It wasn't because we were just dominating them.
No one ever said the Bears were dominating them. My point was the Bears didn't look out manned. In other words, the Rams weren't dominating.

2 blatant defensive coverage mistakes. And this has happened multiple times before. I guess Bears players are just inherently stupid?

The first couple of 4th down decisions were horrible.

The play calling was pedestrian. Not saying they should have been throwing 30 yards down the field.

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1749 » by the ultimates » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:32 pm

Dresden wrote:
the ultimates wrote:We know the offensive line isn't great but giving Nagy that excuse needs to stop. Why, because he doesn't call a game like he has a questionable line. Protecting your offensive line is more than just short passes. You leave a tight end or two to block you leave the running back in. Go to a two-back set and let one or both stay into block or chip and release. The Rams got their first touchdown off of a play-action max protect rollout. Nagy will call some of those plays randomly on occasion but it's clear it's not a part of his philosophy.


Why should it stop? It's like saying stop talking about the huge hole in the middle of the road that we have to drive over every day, because if you stop talking about it, pretty soon it will cease to exist. The line sucks at pass protection, and it has for years now, and we've seen the effect that has on our mid and deep passing games. The QB is running for his life after a few seconds, often getting sacked and/or fumbling, which in turn puts us in second or third and long situations, which we can't get out of.

Much better to just keep picking up 5-6 yards at a crack, avoiding big losses and turnovers. But until the line improves, having time to throw a 30 yard pass pattern is very problematic.


It should stop because he's not doing anything from a protection standpoint to help to the line. It's more than just short passes. Like I said leaving tight ends in to block, leaving the running back or backs in, rollouts. With the way, the Bears ran the football they should have been able to at least take a deep shot or attack the middle of the field with play-action. The Rams line isn't great but they used play action even though they didn't start running the ball till they had the game in hand.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1750 » by dice » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:47 pm

Dresden wrote:
jmajew wrote:
Dresden wrote:
I don't think either of those decisions were bad. Certainly not getting someone fired bad. With how our defense was playing, it didn't matter if the Rams had to go 90 yards or 60. So the logical thing to do is try to keep up with them by scoring and not punting.


They were bad because they were our 2nd and 3rd possessions of the game. On those two drives after those series the rams went 28 and 54 yards before kicking a field goal. If worst case scenario both kicks were touchbacks they would have ended those series at their own 48 yard line and at the bears 36 yard line. I'm sorry those decisions changed the game. I know later in the game our defense got blown up, but maybe they wouldn't have if they got put in better positions to succeed. To me those decisions are just a microcosm of Nagy's entire coaching career.


Except that those are spots on the field where a lot of teams will go for it. Just outside of FG range, but close enough that you might only pick up 15 yards on a punt. I believe the odds, too, say that teams ought to go for it more often on 4th down than they do. The fact that we only gave up 6 points even though we failed on both attempts make them look like even better gambles to me. And who knows, it might have gotten the offense used to the pressure of converting on 4th down, which could lead to more success in the future.

the other thing that needs to be factored in is how likely your offense is to finish the job and score a TD if you convert the 4th down. and i'm not confident that nagy was factoring that in
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1751 » by Dresden » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:01 am

dice wrote:
Dresden wrote:
jmajew wrote:
They were bad because they were our 2nd and 3rd possessions of the game. On those two drives after those series the rams went 28 and 54 yards before kicking a field goal. If worst case scenario both kicks were touchbacks they would have ended those series at their own 48 yard line and at the bears 36 yard line. I'm sorry those decisions changed the game. I know later in the game our defense got blown up, but maybe they wouldn't have if they got put in better positions to succeed. To me those decisions are just a microcosm of Nagy's entire coaching career.


Except that those are spots on the field where a lot of teams will go for it. Just outside of FG range, but close enough that you might only pick up 15 yards on a punt. I believe the odds, too, say that teams ought to go for it more often on 4th down than they do. The fact that we only gave up 6 points even though we failed on both attempts make them look like even better gambles to me. And who knows, it might have gotten the offense used to the pressure of converting on 4th down, which could lead to more success in the future.

the other thing that needs to be factored in is how likely your offense is to finish the job and score a TD if you convert the 4th down. and i'm not confident that nagy was factoring that in


They finished two other drives with TD. In fact, both times they got in the red zone they converted yesterday.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1752 » by Dresden » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:06 am

Stratmaster wrote:
Dresden wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:The Bears had more first downs, ran more plays, dominated the time of possession especially early.

They got beat on two big plays, broken coverages, and lack of discipline. All the 4th down attempts were ridiculous. The passing game and the play calling was unimaginative, and in the couple cases where he tried to get creative it was just gimmicky, not a well thought out reaction to what was happenimg in the game.

Did the Bears throw a single screen pass. I expect I had to have missed it because any 15 year old football fan would have tried to get Montgomery out on a screen so I am sure they tried it a couple times, right?

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The only reasons the bears had more first downs, more TOP, etc., was because the defense was so bad it was taking the Rams just a few plays and a few minutes to score every time they had the ball. It wasn't because we were just dominating them.
No one ever said the Bears were dominating them. My point was the Bears didn't look out manned. In other words, the Rams weren't dominating.

2 blatant defensive coverage mistakes. And this has happened multiple times before. I guess Bears players are just inherently stupid?

The first couple of 4th down decisions were horrible.

The play calling was pedestrian. Not saying they should have been throwing 30 yards down the field.

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I would have liked to see them take a few long shots, too, especially after they had gotten the running game established. That could have been done better. I have no problem with the first two 4th down gambles. The last one seemed foolhardy, but not the first two.

I do think the Bears looked like they were just not up to Ram's level from a personnel standpoint. It wasnt just schemes or play calling. We just don't have the players. Who on defense do teams need to account for? Mack, maybe? Maybe Roquan? No one else on that squad is the least bit scary. Same thing on offense- outside of maybe Montgomery now. I don't see a lot of hope that this team is going to get better any time soon. Even the players we thought were good, like Eddie Jackson, are turning out not be so. If people think Justin Fields will make the whole team better, I think they will be sorely disappointed.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1753 » by dice » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:08 am

Dresden wrote:
dice wrote:
Dresden wrote:
Except that those are spots on the field where a lot of teams will go for it. Just outside of FG range, but close enough that you might only pick up 15 yards on a punt. I believe the odds, too, say that teams ought to go for it more often on 4th down than they do. The fact that we only gave up 6 points even though we failed on both attempts make them look like even better gambles to me. And who knows, it might have gotten the offense used to the pressure of converting on 4th down, which could lead to more success in the future.

the other thing that needs to be factored in is how likely your offense is to finish the job and score a TD if you convert the 4th down. and i'm not confident that nagy was factoring that in


They finished two other drives with TD. In fact, both times they got in the red zone they converted yesterday.

did dalton's INT not qualify as a red zone possession?

point taken that the bears showed the ability to move the ball, though
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1754 » by nitetrain8603 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:52 am

A few things I saw:

-Fields playing this early is good. Nagy is trying to protect him. And whether you like it or not, he's right for doing so.
-Dalton looks competent out there. There's not one moment where I said, that's on Andy.
-Eddie Jackson is done. Might be the worst starting safety in the league right now.
-OLine - no coach, staff, QB, Wideouts, etc will cover how god awful the OLine is. It's one of those things that you can't disguise. Only it can disguise your skilled position players. The Bears can't go vertical as their OLine doesn't allow them to
-Bears threw screen passes. The Rams blow those up pretty easily. If you want to beat the Rams, you need to go vertical towards the sidelines and run the ball.

All in all, if you want to fire Nagy, bench Dalton, or have whatever agenda, this really wasn't the game that's going to support your argument. Bears were simply outmatched on the OLine and on defense. Not saying Kyle Fuller is some super stud, but they're going to miss him alot.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1755 » by chicagoballer » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:26 am

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
chicagoballer wrote:Throwing my prediction out there for this week: 34-13 Rams. We will realize our defense is below average now. Stafford will shred us. Dalton TD, INT 185 yards. 70 yards on the ground from the RBs.


34-17 Rams. This secondary is gonna be chewed up and spit out by a lot of teams IMO.

FYI there no games this week.


So close! If only Nagy hadn’t attempted a 4th and 15 prayer.

Shocking when you cut your best corner and juggle through journeymen to add to an already mediocre secondary, your defense isn’t going to be good.
Who knew?!?! Oh, anyone that has a handle of how football works.



We did well first week. Im going 27-23 bears next week. You?
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1756 » by dice » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:44 am

nitetrain8603 wrote:-Dalton looks competent out there. There's not one moment where I said, that's on Andy.

watch the INT again. that ball may have been picked even if it wasn't tipped. no idea where he was going with that one

-Eddie Jackson is done. Might be the worst starting safety in the league right now.

done? he's 27 with no significant injury history. he might have been mentally checked out yesterday, but...

PFF has him ranked 23rd on the safeties list heading into this season. that's still an above average starter. they have tashaun gipson at #27 as well:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-safety-rankings-the-32-best-safeties-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

interesting that adrian amos is #9 on the list. he wasn't nearly as highly regarded as fuller when he was allowed to sign with the packers, but he was, like fuller, a salary cap casualty

ryan pace foolishly restructured jackson's big contract this year to make room for...andy dalton? so jackson's big cap liability is now the next 3 seasons:

5.1 (this season)
15.1
17.1
18.1

meanwhile, amos's cap hits for the packers:

5.9
9.6
6.0
12.0 (next season)
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1757 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:58 am

I’m probably the one person who thought the oline did decent job considering who they went against. Sure there could have been some more blocks downfield in the running game, sure Dalton got chased a couple times, and yeah Nagy gameplanned to get the ball out quick to help protect the qb but gosh I’ve seen much worse from those guys.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1758 » by Hold That » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:47 am

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:I’m probably the one person who thought the oline did decent job considering who they went against. Sure there could have been some more blocks downfield in the running game, sure Dalton got chased a couple times, and yeah Nagy gameplanned to get the ball out quick to help protect the qb but gosh I’ve seen much worse from those guys.


They did about the best job you could do on Donald. The Oline played better than expected honestly. They did an amazing job at run blocking, but Nagy went away from running the ball.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1759 » by Dresden » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:01 am

What a game on Monday Night. Seeing Gruden's playcalling just pick apart a very good Baltimore defense really does make watching the Bear's offense under Nagy look like amateur hour. That game winning call at the end was just brilliant, too. What a fun game, at least the 4th quarter and OT.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#1760 » by logical_art » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:33 am

As a Giants fan I'll be following you guys closely. We both seem to suck, but at least you might have the QB of your future, whereas it doesn't look like the Giants have theirs. Hoping Fields succeeds, after this season.

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