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OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#701 » by Jcool0 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:39 am

Jeffster81 wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:FWIW If the 49ers take Rodgers #1 that year he at best becomes a journeyman backup and is probably out of the league by now. GB put him into "QB school" for 2 years and completely rebuilt him while not having to play him. The person who started in GB was not the guy GB drafted. 49ers were a complete mess and would of thrown him out in day 1 and he would of gotten killed. Still amazes me Alex Smith made it through what he did and ended up with a pretty good career.


You do not know that. Maybe he does become a journeyman had he went to the 49ers or maybe he still become a legendary HOF QB.

Again, I am not saying hand Fields the job, I'm saying if he proves to be the best QB on the team he needs to play, period.


All you can go off of is the facts. Mike McCarthy didn't think he was worth the #1 pick when he was the OC for SF. Then when he was in GB he completely rebuilt Rodgers without having to worry about him playing before his was ready. He like Alex Smith would of started from day one in SF. No QB school in SF. Just a situation were he is playing behind a bad OL with no good skill players and a bad head coach with a revolving door at the OC position. This really has nothing to do with Fields, who should start from day 1, more just an observation since people seem to think Rodgers would of been great from the start because most don't remember the circumstances to start his career.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#702 » by dice » Sat Jun 5, 2021 5:48 pm

Jeffster81 wrote:
Hold That wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:
You do not know that. Maybe he does become a journeyman had he went to the 49ers or maybe he still become a legendary HOF QB.

Again, I am not saying hand Fields the job, I'm saying if he proves to be the best QB on the team he needs to play, period.

Exactly and Justin Fields isn’t being evaluated against HOF QB Brett Favre.


Thank you.

The idea that your best QB should be sat because they need to "learn" behind veteran QB is an outdated idea. The only thing a young QB is going to learn behind a vet QB like Dalton is how to be mediocre. If Fields is the best QB in the camp, which I suspect he will be, he needs to start. None of this "sit behind the vet BS."

if the coaches think that fields gives the team a better chance to WIN, he should certainly be starting week 1. because that means he was clearly the better QB in camp. beyond that, there are other factors if the goal is to maximize fields's prospects of long-term success. the reality is that sitting for a while has never hurt anyone's long-term development. even trubisky played his best football in his 2nd season after playing only half his rookie campaign. countless examples of HOF players sitting to start their careers. whereas there are also unprovable examples of guys with lots of talent who were thrown into the fire immediately behind crap offensive lines, got the hell beat out of them and never recovered

bottom line is that it doesn't take a full season of play for a young QB to hit his stride right out of the gate in season 2. and the bears are a longshot to contend in the coming season. so there is no compelling reason for fields to start in week 1 other than, as i said, he's CLEARLY the better player in camp. which is very unlikely

PFF (which is pretty high on fields), ranks him as the #25 QB heading into the season (behind winston/hill in new orleans). w/ trevor lawrence at #21 and zach wilson at #30:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-ahead-of-the-2021-nfl-season
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#703 » by CaPiTanAK » Sat Jun 5, 2021 5:54 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:FWIW If the 49ers take Rodgers #1 that year he at best becomes a journeyman backup and is probably out of the league by now. GB put him into "QB school" for 2 years and completely rebuilt him while not having to play him. The person who started in GB was not the guy GB drafted. 49ers were a complete mess and would of thrown him out in day 1 and he would of gotten killed. Still amazes me Alex Smith made it through what he did and ended up with a pretty good career.


You do not know that. Maybe he does become a journeyman had he went to the 49ers or maybe he still become a legendary HOF QB.

Again, I am not saying hand Fields the job, I'm saying if he proves to be the best QB on the team he needs to play, period.


All you can go off of is the facts. Mike McCarthy didn't think he was worth the #1 pick when he was the OC for SF. Then when he was in GB he completely rebuilt Rodgers without having to worry about him playing before his was ready. He like Alex Smith would of started from day one in SF. No QB school in SF. Just a situation were he is playing behind a bad OL with no good skill players and a bad head coach with a revolving door at the OC position. This really has nothing to do with Fields, who should start from day 1, more just an observation since people seem to think Rodgers would of been great from the start because most don't remember the circumstances to start his career.


Complete bull from Aaron Rodger perspective.

McCarthy is an incompetent buffoon who gets more credit for Arod greatness than deserved. Arod is Arod due to 100% on him.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#704 » by Jeffster81 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 7:06 pm

dice wrote:bottom line is that it doesn't take a full season of play for a young QB to hit his stride right out of the gate in season 2. and the bears are a long-shot to contend in the coming season. so there is no compelling reason for fields to start in week 1 other than, as i said, he's CLEARLY the better player in camp. which is very unlikely


I think it's likely he can/will beat out Andy Dalton. I think they will sit him against the Rams and then start him against a softer team like the Bengals.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#705 » by fleet » Sat Jun 5, 2021 8:23 pm

Got ta laugh at the money the Bears are paying for backup level quarterbacks. Dalton was clearly chosen in the absence of a better executed plan, which the Bears subsequently stumbled into with Fields post Dalton signing. The right football team course of action under current conditions would be to dump/trade Dalton and go with Foles and Fields. But unfortunately, the Bears overpaid Dalton, so good luck with that. Dalton is in the way of progress at this point, the landscape has changed. The only good reason that I see for starting Dalton given circumstances, is not to look like the Bears value a promise as much as a politician does. And boy, is Dalton ever trying to remind the Bears in public about their promise. Its a weak rationale to be the leader, but that’s all he’s got.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#706 » by CaPiTanAK » Sat Jun 5, 2021 11:47 pm

fleet wrote: Got ta laugh at the money the Bears are paying for backup level quarterbacks. Dalton was clearly chosen in the absence of a better executed plan, which the Bears subsequently stumbled into with Fields post Dalton signing. The right football team course of action under current conditions would be to dump/trade Dalton and go with Foles and Fields. But unfortunately, the Bears overpaid Dalton, so good luck with that. Dalton is in the way of progress at this point, the landscape has changed. The only good reason that I see for starting Dalton given circumstances, is not to look like the Bears value a promise as much as a politician does. And boy, is Dalton ever trying to remind the Bears in public about their promise. Its a weak rationale to be the leader, but that’s all he’s got.


That’s not up to him. Is he a leader of men? My gut said that Justin Fields is going to quickly win over the vets and force Nagy to start Fields over Dalton. If Fields is better than Dalton, you start Fields Day 1 and cut Dalton is he’s not a team player. Fields is the Bears future not Dalton.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#707 » by fleet » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:30 am

CaPiTanAK wrote:
fleet wrote: Got ta laugh at the money the Bears are paying for backup level quarterbacks. Dalton was clearly chosen in the absence of a better executed plan, which the Bears subsequently stumbled into with Fields post Dalton signing. The right football team course of action under current conditions would be to dump/trade Dalton and go with Foles and Fields. But unfortunately, the Bears overpaid Dalton, so good luck with that. Dalton is in the way of progress at this point, the landscape has changed. The only good reason that I see for starting Dalton given circumstances, is not to look like the Bears value a promise as much as a politician does. And boy, is Dalton ever trying to remind the Bears in public about their promise. Its a weak rationale to be the leader, but that’s all he’s got.


That’s not up to him. Is he a leader of men? My gut said that Justin Fields is going to quickly win over the vets and force Nagy to start Fields over Dalton. If Fields is better than Dalton, you start Fields Day 1 and cut Dalton is he’s not a team player. Fields is the Bears future not Dalton.

Itll be interesting to see how the Bears handle that hypothetical situation, how long they sit on a hot stove. Because they apparently by Florio reporting and Dalton quotes have granted Dalton the job, and Andy thinks they mean all season long.

Mike Florio:

Mike Florio wrote: Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the Bears already have promised quarterback Andy Dalton that he will start the season as the starting quarterback.


Dalton:
Whatever happens after this year happens


"I knew the situation I was going into, regardless of if they drafted somebody or they didn't. I was on a one-year deal and I was going to be the starter.


You can sort of understand if they gave Andy that impression/promise before the draft, but they should be open to changing the depth chart if conditions warrant it. Andy and Mike maintains these guys have told Andy there is no competition going on that will change the rigid structure of the team.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#708 » by TheFinishSniper » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:50 am

You can't promise and keep promise of starting someone before everything what happened happened. If someone else comes in later and situation changes and that person regardless is he rookie or not is good as you or beats you for the job in preseason you shouldnt still start because of promise months ago.

Bears want Fields to be good so they can demote Dalton easier than harder. Will it happen sooner or later doesnt matter.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#709 » by dice » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:34 am

dalton is completely delusional if he thinks there's much more than a 20% chance that he starts the entire season. and even that % seems quite generous. it would require some combination of fields getting injured, fields appearing to not be up to the task, or dalton taking the team on a magical run

and the bears have no reason to factor in dalton's feelings. because no journeyman nfl QB on a 1 year deal should expect a gentleman's agreement to start to be honored when a QB is unexpectedly taken in the top half of the first round of the draft. no future prospective free agent will say "eh, i really don't like how andy dalton was treated, so i'm not gonna sign with the bears"
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#710 » by Susan » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:31 am

fleet wrote:Got ta laugh at the money the Bears are paying for backup level quarterbacks. Dalton was clearly chosen in the absence of a better executed plan, which the Bears subsequently stumbled into with Fields post Dalton signing. The right football team course of action under current conditions would be to dump/trade Dalton and go with Foles and Fields. But unfortunately, the Bears overpaid Dalton, so good luck with that. Dalton is in the way of progress at this point, the landscape has changed. The only good reason that I see for starting Dalton given circumstances, is not to look like the Bears value a promise as much as a politician does. And boy, is Dalton ever trying to remind the Bears in public about their promise. Its a weak rationale to be the leader, but that’s all he’s got.


The Bears under Ryan Pace brought a freshly signed Mike Glennon on a "3 year deal" to their draft party and drafted Trubisky. They also cut Mike Davis to get a comp pick back.

Fields is taking that job and never looking back.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#711 » by dice » Sun Jun 6, 2021 5:13 am

Susan wrote:
fleet wrote:Got ta laugh at the money the Bears are paying for backup level quarterbacks. Dalton was clearly chosen in the absence of a better executed plan, which the Bears subsequently stumbled into with Fields post Dalton signing. The right football team course of action under current conditions would be to dump/trade Dalton and go with Foles and Fields. But unfortunately, the Bears overpaid Dalton, so good luck with that. Dalton is in the way of progress at this point, the landscape has changed. The only good reason that I see for starting Dalton given circumstances, is not to look like the Bears value a promise as much as a politician does. And boy, is Dalton ever trying to remind the Bears in public about their promise. Its a weak rationale to be the leader, but that’s all he’s got.


The Bears under Ryan Pace brought a freshly signed Mike Glennon on a "3 year deal" to their draft party and drafted Trubisky. They also cut Mike Davis to get a comp pick back.

Fields is taking that job and never looking back.

while fields is almost certainly going to start as a rookie, glennon did not have dalton's track record, the bears gave up significantly more assets to get trubisky, and glennon stunk up the joint in 4 starts here
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#712 » by CaPiTanAK » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:44 pm

dice wrote:while fields is almost certainly going to start as a rookie, glennon did not have dalton's track record, the bears gave up significantly more assets to get trubisky, and glennon stunk up the joint in 4 starts here


What is Dalton track record? A proven mediocre QB over the years outside of his 2015 season. We know what Dalton is. In fact, due to him being a veteran, I expect him to be better than Fields as a QB starting the season.

However, in the event that we struck gold and Fields proves to be a better leader and QB in the eyes of the veterans and our coaches, Fields need to be the starter Day 1.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#713 » by dice » Sun Jun 6, 2021 10:26 pm

CaPiTanAK wrote:
dice wrote:while fields is almost certainly going to start as a rookie, glennon did not have dalton's track record, the bears gave up significantly more assets to get trubisky, and glennon stunk up the joint in 4 starts here


What is Dalton track record? A proven mediocre QB over the years outside of his 2015 season.

consistent low-end starter caliber. which glennon was not

We know what Dalton is. In fact, due to him being a veteran, I expect him to be better than Fields as a QB starting the season.

However, in the event that we struck gold and Fields proves to be a better leader and QB in the eyes of the veterans and our coaches, Fields need to be the starter Day 1.

i agree. but as i said, it's highly unlikely that that fields will be the clear choice based solely on camp/preseason
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#714 » by nitetrain8603 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:52 pm

dice wrote:
CaPiTanAK wrote:
dice wrote:while fields is almost certainly going to start as a rookie, glennon did not have dalton's track record, the bears gave up significantly more assets to get trubisky, and glennon stunk up the joint in 4 starts here


What is Dalton track record? A proven mediocre QB over the years outside of his 2015 season.

consistent low-end starter caliber. which glennon was not

We know what Dalton is. In fact, due to him being a veteran, I expect him to be better than Fields as a QB starting the season.

However, in the event that we struck gold and Fields proves to be a better leader and QB in the eyes of the veterans and our coaches, Fields need to be the starter Day 1.

i agree. but as i said, it's highly unlikely that that fields will be the clear choice based solely on camp/preseason


I agree with that. And the whole leader thing, I think that's pretty overrated. Trubisky was actually a decent leader. The questions that need to be answered are: "Can he play?" and "Is he ready to play?"

Suggesting that out of camp, he will be, is crazy to me. Also, keep in mind, Fields has all of the talent and is much more talented than Dalton or Foles coming out - without a doubt. So from a Jeff Dickerson camp report, everyday is going to be "I can't believe how the ball explodes out of Fields' hands" and "He was able to zip the ball thru the defenders and deliver a deep ball with pinpoint accuracy".

I'd be more interested on if he can get through his progressions in time.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#715 » by Susan » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:14 am

nitetrain8603 wrote:
dice wrote:
CaPiTanAK wrote:
What is Dalton track record? A proven mediocre QB over the years outside of his 2015 season.

consistent low-end starter caliber. which glennon was not

We know what Dalton is. In fact, due to him being a veteran, I expect him to be better than Fields as a QB starting the season.

However, in the event that we struck gold and Fields proves to be a better leader and QB in the eyes of the veterans and our coaches, Fields need to be the starter Day 1.

i agree. but as i said, it's highly unlikely that that fields will be the clear choice based solely on camp/preseason


I agree with that. And the whole leader thing, I think that's pretty overrated. Trubisky was actually a decent leader. The questions that need to be answered are: "Can he play?" and "Is he ready to play?"

Suggesting that out of camp, he will be, is crazy to me. Also, keep in mind, Fields has all of the talent and is much more talented than Dalton or Foles coming out - without a doubt. So from a Jeff Dickerson camp report, everyday is going to be "I can't believe how the ball explodes out of Fields' hands" and "He was able to zip the ball thru the defenders and deliver a deep ball with pinpoint accuracy".

I'd be more interested on if he can get through his progressions in time.


He was able to in College and he ran a 4.4 40. He didn't rely on his athleticism in college but it's there. He's smart as all hell and can play the game without unleashing his athleticism but if things go south, he'll be able to and dominate still.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#716 » by fleet » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:34 am

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#717 » by fleet » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:05 am

Guessing Colin Cowherd was looking at pictures like this with the weird Mac Jones showers comment. Yet true enough, every image seen of Fields has him looking the part as one the most self-confident humans since Bird or MJ.

Image
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#718 » by fleet » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:46 am

The upshot is, Fields has faced the toughest D, all while being the most accurate since PFF has existed. Their accuracy metric is of higher predictability to the NFL than other stats.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2021/6/7/22522833/chicago-bears-quarterback-justin-fields-ohio-state-accuracy-metric-translates-nfl-anayltics

If I had to sum up my concerns with him, he has a long windup. This may somewhat equalize his college accuracy success if DBs can get a good jump on him with his perhaps slower delivery. Which you can imagine would be the thing that worried some teams if he had slower reads at the same time with a longer windup.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#719 » by fleet » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:02 pm

*gasp* Jordan Love still struggling with accuracy at OTAs, and T Law threw a couple picks.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#720 » by Susan » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:41 pm

fleet wrote:*gasp* Jordan Love still struggling with accuracy at OTAs, and T Law threw a couple picks.


Trevor pulled his hammy as well.
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