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The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft

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The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#1 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat May 1, 2021 10:34 pm

https://theathletic.com/2541255/

"The Athletic’s Sam Vecenie (college prospect/NBA draft guru), John Hollinger (NBA columnist) and James L. Edwards III (Pistons beat writer) got together to re-draft the lottery (picks No. 1-14). There was no criteria. The three alternated selections. In some instances, fit was considered. In other instances, the player considered to carry the highest upside was the selection. Personal preferences was, obviously, involved."

1 - Ball
2 - Edwards
3 - Wiseman

4. Chicago Bulls: Pat Williams, F (originally selected No. 4 overall)

Vecenie: When I conducted my rookie-scale rankings back in February, I had Williams one spot below Tyrese Haliburton. But thinking more about it, I think I’d rather take the chance on the upside that Williams has showcased so far this year. He hasn’t been particularly impactful yet in terms of affecting the Bulls’ bottom line, but he’s also the second-youngest player in the league, so that’s to be expected.

The flashes he’s shown as a shot creator, pull-up shooter, and scorer at times make me think he has some pretty substantial upside to become the kind of big wing creator that every team looks for. Plus, he’s 6-foot-8, has a terrific frame, and has real defensive upside in terms of the way that he reads the game. These player types tend to develop a bit more slowly, then you blink and they’ve put it all together.

I think he could actually stand to thin out a bit and get into better shape, and hopefully add a bit more quickness. But this is the player type that everyone is looking for across the league. Even if he ends up being something approximating Harrison Barnes — which is probably the most likely outcome — that’s a win. But I think there is real upside even beyond that if the tools really come together, in a way that I just don’t quite see for Haliburton.

5 - Haliburton
6 - Isaiah Stewart
7 - Poku
8 - Hayes
9 - Okongwu
10 - McDaniels
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#2 » by Bulliever2020 » Sat May 1, 2021 10:53 pm

I've been watching other team's broadcasts because I just can't stand all Stacey's catchphrases lately but literally every one I've heard has praised Pat and all the potential they see in him. Yet a good portion of this board want to label him a bust not even through his rookie year. He may have plateaued and even digressed a little throughout the year but I've seen enough over a large sample size to still be extremely confident about where he will end up as a player. By year 4, he is going to be a beast.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#3 » by Ice Man » Sat May 1, 2021 11:00 pm

1) Pretty early for a re-draft. I bet that the 2025 redraft will look very different.

2) Sticking with Pat over Haliburton, eh? Hmmm.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#4 » by Ice Man » Sat May 1, 2021 11:04 pm

Bulliever2020 wrote:I've been watching other team's broadcasts because I just can't stand all Stacey's catchphrases lately but literally every one I've heard has praised Pat and all the potential they see in him.


Every broadcaster sells the opposing team's young players. Two years ago, every road broadcaster gushed about how great Chicago's rebuild was going, with LaVine, Lauri, Wendell, and Dunn as the Bulls' young core. I'm sure they thought Marquis Teague was wonderful, too.

I am not knocking PWill here. He might end up being very good. But those broadcasters ... I would trust used-car salesmen over them.

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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#5 » by DuckIII » Sat May 1, 2021 11:04 pm

Immanuel Quickley would easily make my top 10 re-draft.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#6 » by fleet » Sat May 1, 2021 11:12 pm

Ice Man wrote:1) Pretty early for a re-draft. I bet that the 2025 redraft will look very different.

2) Sticking with Pat over Haliburton, eh? Hmmm.

The Bulls sorely needed a PG, but there are lots of PGs in the league, and Pats position is harder to fill in terms of quality. They must take this into account with their redraft, BPA projection over need. As well as how the Bulls are using Pat.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#7 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat May 1, 2021 11:32 pm

Ice Man wrote:1) Pretty early for a re-draft. I bet that the 2025 redraft will look very different.

2) Sticking with Pat over Haliburton, eh? Hmmm.


1 - Certainly. Even the re-draft done one year from now will look different.

2 - The guy who wrote Mr. Patrick Williams' eval also wrote Poku's, and he revealed his thoughts on lottery picks:

"I would have taken Poku at No. 4 if Williams was off the board.

Ultimately, in the lottery, I want to take the guy who I think has the highest chance to be a genuine difference-maker if things break right, especially as a rebuilding team."

And Hollinger wrote Haliburton's eval and said this:

"The only question is whether he can become a high-volume, cornerstone-type player or is better suited as a high-end role player."

They certainly seem to be saying that Haliburton has the higher floor, but Mr. Patrick Williams has the higher ceiling.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#8 » by GoBlue72391 » Sun May 2, 2021 12:10 am

Bulliever2020 wrote:I've been watching other team's broadcasts because I just can't stand all Stacey's catchphrases lately but literally every one I've heard has praised Pat and all the potential they see in him. Yet a good portion of this board want to label him a bust not even through his rookie year. He may have plateaued and even digressed a little throughout the year but I've seen enough over a large sample size to still be extremely confident about where he will end up as a player. By year 4, he is going to be a beast.

I haven't seen a single person label him a bust. I'm sure a handful of loons have, but it's not a common sentiment. What is common is people expressing their concern about his passivity and lack of notable development over the course of the season. That is not the same thing as calling him a bust.

Also, you should ignore what Stacey King says. He's been saying every Bulls rookie for the past decade plus is destined for stardom. To Marquis Teague, to Tony Snell, to Doug McDermott, to PWill. If they're a Bulls rookie, Stacey has called them a future star. And how many of them actually became stars? Jimmy is the only one. He's just the Bulls hype man and not a legitmate analyst/talent scout.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#9 » by TheFinishSniper » Sun May 2, 2021 12:28 am

Bulliever2020 wrote:I've been watching other team's broadcasts because I just can't stand all Stacey's catchphrases lately but literally every one I've heard has praised Pat and all the potential they see in him. Yet a good portion of this board want to label him a bust not even through his rookie year. He may have plateaued and even digressed a little throughout the year but I've seen enough over a large sample size to still be extremely confident about where he will end up as a player. By year 4, he is going to be a beast.

there is plenty of prospects after williams who contributed to winning alot more than pwill did. people usually praise rookies. its a thing. i wish williams all well but i would rather have haliburton today and tommorow than pwill and hoping in 4 years that pwill be somehow better player. hope is for suckers
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#10 » by Leslie Forman » Sun May 2, 2021 1:50 am

I have a feeling Poku is gonna be top of this list in a few years.

Ice Man wrote:Every broadcaster sells the opposing team's young players. Two years ago, every road broadcaster gushed about how great Chicago's rebuild was going, with LaVine, Lauri, Wendell, and Dunn as the Bulls' young core. I'm sure they thought Marquis Teague was wonderful, too.

A big reason I think Zach Lowe is just a charlatan who talks fake "basketball guru" bullsh*t is because he always used to rave about McDermott and why he was so important for the Bulls.

What the hell player was he watching? It certainly wasn't the same one any of us were.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#11 » by kodo » Sun May 2, 2021 2:13 am

Even if he ends up being something approximating Harrison Barnes — which is probably the most likely outcome — that’s a win.


That's the thing, most Bulls fan wouldn't consider that a win, because they believe Chicago has been rebuilding a new core for all these years. When the reality is that team has been treadmilling in the no man's land of 7th picks. So the expectation of this #4 was a franchise talent, not Barnes.

But as I posted in the Williams comp thread, I agree with the Barnes analogy. But 19 is just the first set of data, his trajectory is more important than his starting point. We'll know a lot more next season.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#12 » by The Box Office » Sun May 2, 2021 6:00 am

Ughhh. I still take Haliburton over Patrick Williams. I took Hali back then. I still stand by that today. Oh look. Nike just signed Haliburton.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#13 » by Little Nathan » Sun May 2, 2021 8:49 am

1. As others have said, it's too early for this.

2. I'd definitely still take Pat over Hali. I could see why you wouldn't, but it's way too early for me to entirely change my pre-draft position on this. It's not surprising at all to me that Hali has the better rookie season, but I still like Pat's upside more.

3. I didn't get having Wiseman top 5 before the draft, so it makes even less sense to me now.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#14 » by Louri » Sun May 2, 2021 9:25 am

Is there some kind of magic between age 19-20 as most people always mention his age.

"he’s also the second-youngest player in the league, so that’s to be expected."

If he would be 20 years old as most rookies like Haliburton, then it means he would be worse? Hali and Pat have like 6 months difference in age.. 19 and 20 feels like Pat would be still much much younger.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#15 » by Little Nathan » Sun May 2, 2021 10:20 am

Louri wrote:Is there some kind of magic between age 19-20 as most people always mention his age.

"he’s also the second-youngest player in the league, so that’s to be expected."

If he would be 20 years old as most rookies like Haliburton, then it means he would be worse? Hali and Pat have like 6 months difference in age.. 19 and 20 feels like Pat would be still much much younger.


It's actually 18 months, which isn't insignificant. With that being said, I do agree that it's way too easy to just say "Ah he's 19, he'll be fine!" when we don't do the same with "older" rookies (who are still extremely young). My rookie expectations for Hali were just higher because he already played in a more prominent role in college, his skillset/the things he was doing in college seemed likely to translate well to the NBA + the fit in Sacramento next to Fox seemed ideal to me (I won't pretend to watch the Kings regularly, so I don't know much about how they've actually looked together).

Pat was all tools and flashes in college, things you have to put together over time to succeed. I'm still a big-time believer that he will eventually do that, but it was always going to take time to get there. His age doesn't necessarily make that more likely, but at the very least it gives him more time. Can't say I love how his minutes/role were handled by the coaching staff this season, though. That's a concern for me.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#16 » by dougthonus » Sun May 2, 2021 4:20 pm

If you aren't going to change anything based on what has happened this season (ie, Haliburton is still behind Williams despite the fact that he has vastly outperformed him), then what is the point of doing a redraft?
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#17 » by Leslie Forman » Sun May 2, 2021 8:30 pm

dougthonus wrote:If you aren't going to change anything based on what has happened this season (ie, Haliburton is still behind Williams despite the fact that he has vastly outperformed him), then what is the point of doing a redraft?

Seriously, what kind of a supposed NBA "expert" watches James Wiseman and thinks "yeah I'd still take that guy third?" What a bunch of complete hacks.

Really, who doesn't think the Warriors would trade him for Haliburton in a second?
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#18 » by TheJordanRule » Sun May 2, 2021 8:53 pm

dougthonus wrote:If you aren't going to change anything based on what has happened this season (ie, Haliburton is still behind Williams despite the fact that he has vastly outperformed him), then what is the point of doing a redraft?


Agreed. Complex had a better more realistic re-draft. Check it out:

https://www.complex.com/sports/re-draft-2020-nba-draft/hornets

EDIT: In this re-draft, Haliburton goes #3 and Williams hangs on to #4-- which I agree with, not due to Williams' greatness, but by default. This draft looks pretty bad right now. Aside from Melo, who has flashed franchise player potential, this season's only seen a couple of rookies rise to the level of quality starters-- Haliburton and Edwards. Beyond that, we've seen some serviceable role players / borderline starters emerge-- Saddiq Bey, James Wiseman, Immanuel Quickley-- and out of all of them Williams has probably been the least impressive but the fact that Williams has impressive tools, never had that extra year in college as a starter to fully acclimate to that level of competition much less the NBA, and has been serviceable keeps me excited about his growth.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#19 » by CobyWhite0 » Sun May 2, 2021 9:14 pm

A re-draft, just like the actual draft, is based on who the person doing the re-draft thinks is going to be the better player in Year 4 and beyond. Not what a player does in his rookie season.

Each and every year, there's a player or two who didn't make an All-Rookie team that winds up being better than those who did by Year 4.
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Re: The Athletic's 2020 NBA Re-Draft 

Post#20 » by dougthonus » Sun May 2, 2021 9:59 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:A re-draft, just like the actual draft, is based on who the person doing the re-draft thinks is going to be the better player in Year 4 and beyond. Not what a player does in his rookie season.

Each and every year, there's a player or two who didn't make an All-Rookie team that winds up being better than those who did by Year 4.


Redrafts don't make much sense early, because there is no fact to them. If you redraft 5 years later, you can look at a draft reasonably objectively.

This is similar to draft grades. It is just mapping the author's opinion of what the best players are, which is really not much value.

Most writers hate draft grade articles anyway, and it's obvious why, you are basically grading teams on who they took vs who you think they should took even though the teams themselves have way more information and basis to make their decisions than you do to back up your opinion.
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