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PG: 8 more games to go

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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#41 » by CobyWhite0 » Sun May 2, 2021 8:40 pm

Red8911 wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
We’ll see but I doubt it very much. Zach will clear protocols and when he does he’s going to play. I don’t really know why Vuc did not play but I expect him back very soon.

The Bulls have shown no signs that they will make intentional decisions to lose on purpose.


Vuc’s last minute scratch seems a little suspicious but we will see. There are plenty of things the Bulls can do without blatantly making it obvious that they are not doing everything possible to win that game. Even Donovan can with his lineup decisions during the game. At this point the only favorable outcome is for the Bulls to lose all of these games.
The Bulls got lucky last year with the 4th pick. What are the odds of that happening again? I just don’t see it. The trade was made to win now but that backfired into missing the playoffs and losing the pick. Just a failed season for Donovan and AK.


Anywhere from 20.27% to 31.96%, depending on where exactly we finish in the standings:

9th - 20.27%
8th - 27.30%
7th - 31.96% (the team with the worst record only has a 52.14% chance of landing a top-4 pick)
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#42 » by kodo » Sun May 2, 2021 9:00 pm

Red8911 wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
We’ll see but I doubt it very much. Zach will clear protocols and when he does he’s going to play. I don’t really know why Vuc did not play but I expect him back very soon.

The Bulls have shown no signs that they will make intentional decisions to lose on purpose.


Vuc’s last minute scratch seems a little suspicious but we will see. There are plenty of things the Bulls can do without blatantly making it obvious that they are not doing everything possible to win that game. Even Donovan can with his lineup decisions during the game. At this point the only favorable outcome is for the Bulls to lose all of these games.
The Bulls got lucky last year with the 4th pick. What are the odds of that happening again? I just don’t see it. The trade was made to win now but that backfired into missing the playoffs and losing the pick. Just a failed season for Donovan and AK.


29.2% currently.

There' an 80%+ chance that our pick will be worse than 7th, and we haven't had any decent players from 7.
I honestly don't think Chicago is giving up much this year. TBD in '23 depending on that draft.

For a team like Chicago that has so little talent outside of the top 2 guys, only winning the lotto really matters. More Wendell Carters & Coby Whites aren't going to make this team better.

The full lottery protection on both picks stripped away much of the reason why teams tank in the first place IMO, for the chance at a franchise changer.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#43 » by Jeffster81 » Sun May 2, 2021 9:47 pm

My favorite headline I've seen is, "Bulls score 12pts in the 3rd Quarter, oddly it doesn't lead to a win against Hawks."
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#44 » by Stratmaster » Sun May 2, 2021 11:16 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Shooting 53% from the field and 42% from 3 in the first half explained a lot.


That and the Hawks dogging it. Their first half performance might be the laziest effort I have seen this season in the NBA. I have seen worse basketball, due to a lack of talent, but I think not such disinterested basketball.
Yep. I had mentioned previously I don't think they broke a sweat in the first half.

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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#45 » by meekrab » Sun May 2, 2021 11:55 pm

Am2626 wrote:
fleet wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:Lonzo Ball just had a Hell of game. Better than anything a point guard has done for us all season.

33 points, 11 rebs, 8 assists, 3 stls, 8 threes made

The only remaining question on him is health. His game keeps improving as long as his body is right.


It’s too bad the Bulls weren’t able to swing a trade for him at the trade deadline. Their offer was Sato and 2 second round picks. Should have just offered Lauri straight up for Lonzo.

Doubt the Pelicans would do that. Zion's not a center and they're not going to pay Lauri 20 million to come off the bench.

I don't know where this expectation that Lauri is a 20 million / year player comes from, but that seems to be the universal expectation. :dontknow:
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#46 » by Am2626 » Mon May 3, 2021 12:05 am

Red8911 wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
We’ll see but I doubt it very much. Zach will clear protocols and when he does he’s going to play. I don’t really know why Vuc did not play but I expect him back very soon.

The Bulls have shown no signs that they will make intentional decisions to lose on purpose.


Vuc’s last minute scratch seems a little suspicious but we will see. There are plenty of things the Bulls can do without blatantly making it obvious that they are not doing everything possible to win that game. Even Donovan can with his lineup decisions during the game. At this point the only favorable outcome is for the Bulls to lose all of these games.
The Bulls got lucky last year with the 4th pick. What are the odds of that happening again? I just don’t see it. The trade was made to win now but that backfired into missing the playoffs and losing the pick. Just a failed season for Donovan and AK.


Are the Bulls really that lucky? They happened to jump up in the one draft that has probably been the weakest in a decade. Any other draft and especially with this upcoming draft you are probably going to be getting a much more higher rated prospect then Patrick Williams. While he has some potential he feels more like a typical guy you would get at the back end of the lottery and not someone that is typically a top 4 pick.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#47 » by Am2626 » Mon May 3, 2021 12:14 am

meekrab wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
fleet wrote:The only remaining question on him is health. His game keeps improving as long as his body is right.


It’s too bad the Bulls weren’t able to swing a trade for him at the trade deadline. Their offer was Sato and 2 second round picks. Should have just offered Lauri straight up for Lonzo.

Doubt the Pelicans would do that. Zion's not a center and they're not going to pay Lauri 20 million to come off the bench.

I don't know where this expectation that Lauri is a 20 million / year player comes from, but that seems to be the universal expectation. :dontknow:


They could play Lauri at the 5. It does seem like a better offer than what the Bulls offered (Sato and 2 second round picks). Both Lauri and Lonzo are restricted free agents and coming into this year both guys were at around the same level. I do think Lonzo has moved a step up and Lauri a step back this year though.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#48 » by BullChit » Mon May 3, 2021 2:38 am

Am2626 wrote:
Red8911 wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
Vuc’s last minute scratch seems a little suspicious but we will see. There are plenty of things the Bulls can do without blatantly making it obvious that they are not doing everything possible to win that game. Even Donovan can with his lineup decisions during the game. At this point the only favorable outcome is for the Bulls to lose all of these games.
The Bulls got lucky last year with the 4th pick. What are the odds of that happening again? I just don’t see it. The trade was made to win now but that backfired into missing the playoffs and losing the pick. Just a failed season for Donovan and AK.


Are the Bulls really that lucky? They happened to jump up in the one draft that has probably been the weakest in a decade. Any other draft and especially with this upcoming draft you are probably going to be getting a much more higher rated prospect then Patrick Williams. While he has some potential he feels more like a typical guy you would get at the back end of the lottery and not someone that is typically a top 4 pick.


Actually that's sounds like the definition of luck when it comes to definitions of luck or bad luck prescribed to the Bulls.

7 picks for how many years and then boom we are finally lucky enough to land a top 4 pick and it's in a weak draft... That sums Chicago sports up in a nutshell as far as "luck" is concerned.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#49 » by madvillian » Mon May 3, 2021 3:25 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:
Red8911 wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
Vuc’s last minute scratch seems a little suspicious but we will see. There are plenty of things the Bulls can do without blatantly making it obvious that they are not doing everything possible to win that game. Even Donovan can with his lineup decisions during the game. At this point the only favorable outcome is for the Bulls to lose all of these games.
The Bulls got lucky last year with the 4th pick. What are the odds of that happening again? I just don’t see it. The trade was made to win now but that backfired into missing the playoffs and losing the pick. Just a failed season for Donovan and AK.


Anywhere from 20.27% to 31.96%, depending on where exactly we finish in the standings:

9th - 20.27%
8th - 27.30%
7th - 31.96% (the team with the worst record only has a 52.14% chance of landing a top-4 pick)


It's very important to finish with those 32% odds.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#50 » by Almost Retired » Mon May 3, 2021 3:28 am

BullChit wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
Red8911 wrote: The Bulls got lucky last year with the 4th pick. What are the odds of that happening again? I just don’t see it. The trade was made to win now but that backfired into missing the playoffs and losing the pick. Just a failed season for Donovan and AK.


Are the Bulls really that lucky? They happened to jump up in the one draft that has probably been the weakest in a decade. Any other draft and especially with this upcoming draft you are probably going to be getting a much more higher rated prospect then Patrick Williams. While he has some potential he feels more like a typical guy you would get at the back end of the lottery and not someone that is typically a top 4 pick.


Actually that's sounds like the definition of luck when it comes to definitions of luck or bad luck prescribed to the Bulls.

7 picks for how many years and then boom we are finally lucky enough to land a top 4 pick and it's in a weak draft... That sums Chicago sports up in a nutshell as far as "luck" is concerned.
[b]

This is not a weak draft. There are 5 good players at the top, and the draft goes deep. Not every player that gets picked in Round 1 is going succeed. They never do. But I see quite a few potential starting players in this draft extending all the way into the 2nd Round. The consensus Top of the Draft: Cunningham, Suggs, Mobley, Green and Kuminga...I think at least 3 of them play in an All-Star game at some point. Beyond that I see potential starters or better coming out of the group of Scottie Barnes, Jaden Springer, Moses Moody, Josh Giddey, Davion Mitchell (my personal favorite in the draft). Jared Butler, Bouknight, Kai Jones, Kispert, Dosunmu...and even in the late 1st and into the middle of the second round there is potential; Sharife Cooper, Isaiah Jackson, Isaiah Todd, Jeramiah Roninson -Earl, Day-Ron Sharpe, Tre Mann, Chris Duarte, Alperen Sengun, Roko Prkacin, Kofi Cockburn, Charles bassey, Miles McBride, Brandon Boston, Joel Ayayi, Josh Christopher, RaiQuan Gray, Herb Jones, RJ Nembhard, Greg Brown, David Duke, Isaiah Mobley, Filip Petrusev, Isaiah Livers, and Quentin Grimes. Add Benedict Mathurin if he decides to come out. The Draft is not weak. It's strong at the Top and it's deep.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#51 » by robert76 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:39 am

Almost Retired wrote:
BullChit wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
Are the Bulls really that lucky? They happened to jump up in the one draft that has probably been the weakest in a decade. Any other draft and especially with this upcoming draft you are probably going to be getting a much more higher rated prospect then Patrick Williams. While he has some potential he feels more like a typical guy you would get at the back end of the lottery and not someone that is typically a top 4 pick.


Actually that's sounds like the definition of luck when it comes to definitions of luck or bad luck prescribed to the Bulls.

7 picks for how many years and then boom we are finally lucky enough to land a top 4 pick and it's in a weak draft... That sums Chicago sports up in a nutshell as far as "luck" is concerned.
[b]

This is not a weak draft. There are 5 good players at the top, and the draft goes deep. Not every player that gets picked in Round 1 is going succeed. They never do. But I see quite a few potential starting players in this draft extending all the way into the 2nd Round. The consensus Top of the Draft: Cunningham, Suggs, Mobley, Green and Kuminga...I think at least 3 of them play in an All-Star game at some point. Beyond that I see potential starters or better coming out of the group of Scottie Barnes, Jaden Springer, Moses Moody, Josh Giddey, Davion Mitchell (my personal favorite in the draft). Jared Butler, Bouknight, Kai Jones, Kispert, Dosunmu...and even in the late 1st and into the middle of the second round there is potential; Sharife Cooper, Isaiah Jackson, Isaiah Todd, Jeramiah Roninson -Earl, Day-Ron Sharpe, Tre Mann, Chris Duarte, Alperen Sengun, Roko Prkacin, Kofi Cockburn, Charles bassey, Miles McBride, Brandon Boston, Joel Ayayi, Josh Christopher, RaiQuan Gray, Herb Jones, RJ Nembhard, Greg Brown, David Duke, Isaiah Mobley, Filip Petrusev, Isaiah Livers, and Quentin Grimes. Add Benedict Mathurin if he decides to come out. The Draft is not weak. It's strong at the Top and it's deep.


I think he meant last year's draft.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#52 » by BullChit » Mon May 3, 2021 5:49 am

robert76 wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:
BullChit wrote:
Actually that's sounds like the definition of luck when it comes to definitions of luck or bad luck prescribed to the Bulls.

7 picks for how many years and then boom we are finally lucky enough to land a top 4 pick and it's in a weak draft... That sums Chicago sports up in a nutshell as far as "luck" is concerned.
[b]

This is not a weak draft. There are 5 good players at the top, and the draft goes deep. Not every player that gets picked in Round 1 is going succeed. They never do. But I see quite a few potential starting players in this draft extending all the way into the 2nd Round. The consensus Top of the Draft: Cunningham, Suggs, Mobley, Green and Kuminga...I think at least 3 of them play in an All-Star game at some point. Beyond that I see potential starters or better coming out of the group of Scottie Barnes, Jaden Springer, Moses Moody, Josh Giddey, Davion Mitchell (my personal favorite in the draft). Jared Butler, Bouknight, Kai Jones, Kispert, Dosunmu...and even in the late 1st and into the middle of the second round there is potential; Sharife Cooper, Isaiah Jackson, Isaiah Todd, Jeramiah Roninson -Earl, Day-Ron Sharpe, Tre Mann, Chris Duarte, Alperen Sengun, Roko Prkacin, Kofi Cockburn, Charles bassey, Miles McBride, Brandon Boston, Joel Ayayi, Josh Christopher, RaiQuan Gray, Herb Jones, RJ Nembhard, Greg Brown, David Duke, Isaiah Mobley, Filip Petrusev, Isaiah Livers, and Quentin Grimes. Add Benedict Mathurin if he decides to come out. The Draft is not weak. It's strong at the Top and it's deep.


I think he meant last year's draft.
Cooooooorrect sir....

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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#53 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon May 3, 2021 8:09 am

meekrab wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
fleet wrote:The only remaining question on him is health. His game keeps improving as long as his body is right.


It’s too bad the Bulls weren’t able to swing a trade for him at the trade deadline. Their offer was Sato and 2 second round picks. Should have just offered Lauri straight up for Lonzo.

Doubt the Pelicans would do that. Zion's not a center and they're not going to pay Lauri 20 million to come off the bench.

I don't know where this expectation that Lauri is a 20 million / year player comes from, but that seems to be the universal expectation. :dontknow:


The expectation comes from a long experience of seeing free agents sign handsome deals, not based upon their stats and value for their current team but projected potential in (insert name) team. Add to that the fact that more than one team is usually after a certain player. I don't think cheapskates lure anyone.
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#54 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon May 3, 2021 8:17 am

Am2626 wrote:
meekrab wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
It’s too bad the Bulls weren’t able to swing a trade for him at the trade deadline. Their offer was Sato and 2 second round picks. Should have just offered Lauri straight up for Lonzo.

Doubt the Pelicans would do that. Zion's not a center and they're not going to pay Lauri 20 million to come off the bench.

I don't know where this expectation that Lauri is a 20 million / year player comes from, but that seems to be the universal expectation. :dontknow:


They could play Lauri at the 5. It does seem like a better offer than what the Bulls offered (Sato and 2 second round picks). Both Lauri and Lonzo are restricted free agents and coming into this year both guys were at around the same level. I do think Lonzo has moved a step up and Lauri a step back this year though.


It looks like that only because in reality the Bulls have taken a step back. Better coach and management yes but the results are pretty much the same. Lauri has improved, maybe not enough, but he has.

Outside of Lavine and his empty stats which player of the Bulls has really taken a step forward?
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#55 » by ATRAIN53 » Mon May 3, 2021 2:11 pm

What a dissapointment if we don't even make the play-in tournament.

I wonder if they let some fans in for the last week or two of games if the energy would ignite the team.

We're one of the few teams with NO FANS and I think it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE
It's a disadvantage playing teams on the road that have fans IMO.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#56 » by MGB8 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:13 pm

DuckIII wrote:
Hugi Mancura wrote:
HOTCARL_o wrote:As long as PWill wakes up and does something the remaining games that would be great. Then off to the lottery and hope we get rewarded for not tanking.


Well, Bulls are tanking now. Odds of landing in top 4 with seventh worst record is 11% higher (31% vs 20%) with 7:th worst record than 9:th. So they are going to do everything in their power to end up behind Toronto and Sacramento.


We’ll see but I doubt it very much. Zach will clear protocols and when he does he’s going to play. I don’t really know why Vuc did not play but I expect him back very soon.

The Bulls have shown no signs that they will make intentional decisions to lose on purpose.


They may not be tanking, but the Bulls are highly likely to end up with the 7th worst record.

Of the teams ahead of them - the Wizards are three games up, on a tear and trying. The Raptors may only be 1/2 game up, but they are also trying and simply have a much better team (Lowry, FVV, OG, Siakam + Trent, Boucher, etc.) that has underperformed for a number of reasons. The Kings could be worse and are only a game up on the Bulls - but they have pretty much the easiest remaining schedule in the league (including facing the Thunder 3 times). The Pelicans have a pretty tough remaining schedule (including the .500 and trying Warriors three times and a 5 game road trip) -- but they are a full 3 games up on the Bulls.

There is pretty much zero chance of dropping to 6th worst overall (5 games ahead of the Cavs, 5 1/2 on the Thunder) - but even with things pretty close, absent the Pelicans pretty much losing out or the Bulls playing teams that stop caring (which I could see, the Nets, the Bucks)... very hard to move up or down at this point.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#57 » by Am2626 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:17 pm

Almost Retired wrote:
BullChit wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
Are the Bulls really that lucky? They happened to jump up in the one draft that has probably been the weakest in a decade. Any other draft and especially with this upcoming draft you are probably going to be getting a much more higher rated prospect then Patrick Williams. While he has some potential he feels more like a typical guy you would get at the back end of the lottery and not someone that is typically a top 4 pick.


Actually that's sounds like the definition of luck when it comes to definitions of luck or bad luck prescribed to the Bulls.

7 picks for how many years and then boom we are finally lucky enough to land a top 4 pick and it's in a weak draft... That sums Chicago sports up in a nutshell as far as "luck" is concerned.
[b]

This is not a weak draft. There are 5 good players at the top, and the draft goes deep. Not every player that gets picked in Round 1 is going succeed. They never do. But I see quite a few potential starting players in this draft extending all the way into the 2nd Round. The consensus Top of the Draft: Cunningham, Suggs, Mobley, Green and Kuminga...I think at least 3 of them play in an All-Star game at some point. Beyond that I see potential starters or better coming out of the group of Scottie Barnes, Jaden Springer, Moses Moody, Josh Giddey, Davion Mitchell (my personal favorite in the draft). Jared Butler, Bouknight, Kai Jones, Kispert, Dosunmu...and even in the late 1st and into the middle of the second round there is potential; Sharife Cooper, Isaiah Jackson, Isaiah Todd, Jeramiah Roninson -Earl, Day-Ron Sharpe, Tre Mann, Chris Duarte, Alperen Sengun, Roko Prkacin, Kofi Cockburn, Charles bassey, Miles McBride, Brandon Boston, Joel Ayayi, Josh Christopher, RaiQuan Gray, Herb Jones, RJ Nembhard, Greg Brown, David Duke, Isaiah Mobley, Filip Petrusev, Isaiah Livers, and Quentin Grimes. Add Benedict Mathurin if he decides to come out. The Draft is not weak. It's strong at the Top and it's deep.


We aren’t talking about this year’s draft. We are referring to last years draft where the Bulls jumped into the top 4 and ended up with a back of the lottery talent. It’s bad luck when the draft you get lucky is one of the weakest drafts in a long time.

Yes if the Bulls get #4 this year everyone will be aesthetic.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#58 » by Am2626 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:22 pm

MGB8 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Hugi Mancura wrote:
Well, Bulls are tanking now. Odds of landing in top 4 with seventh worst record is 11% higher (31% vs 20%) with 7:th worst record than 9:th. So they are going to do everything in their power to end up behind Toronto and Sacramento.


We’ll see but I doubt it very much. Zach will clear protocols and when he does he’s going to play. I don’t really know why Vuc did not play but I expect him back very soon.

The Bulls have shown no signs that they will make intentional decisions to lose on purpose.


They may not be tanking, but the Bulls are highly likely to end up with the 7th worst record.

Of the teams ahead of them - the Wizards are three games up, on a tear and trying. The Raptors may only be 1/2 game up, but they are also trying and simply have a much better team (Lowry, FVV, OG, Siakam + Trent, Boucher, etc.) that has underperformed for a number of reasons. The Kings could be worse and are only a game up on the Bulls - but they have pretty much the easiest remaining schedule in the league (including facing the Thunder 3 times). The Pelicans have a pretty tough remaining schedule (including the .500 and trying Warriors three times and a 5 game road trip) -- but they are a full 3 games up on the Bulls.

There is pretty much zero chance of dropping to 6th worst overall (5 games ahead of the Cavs, 5 1/2 on the Thunder) - but even with things pretty close, absent the Pelicans pretty much losing out or the Bulls playing teams that stop caring (which I could see, the Nets, the Bucks)... very hard to move up or down at this point.


I don’t see the Bulls moving up but if they are not careful they could still fall behind Toronto or Sacramento. Best case is staying at 7 and worst case falling to 9.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#59 » by TheStig » Mon May 3, 2021 7:09 pm

meekrab wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
fleet wrote:The only remaining question on him is health. His game keeps improving as long as his body is right.


It’s too bad the Bulls weren’t able to swing a trade for him at the trade deadline. Their offer was Sato and 2 second round picks. Should have just offered Lauri straight up for Lonzo.

Doubt the Pelicans would do that. Zion's not a center and they're not going to pay Lauri 20 million to come off the bench.

I don't know where this expectation that Lauri is a 20 million / year player comes from, but that seems to be the universal expectation. :dontknow:

I think the move would have been Coby and 2nd's. And I don't think that was off the table. I just don't think the Pels were going to sell their starter for a bleh backup shoot first pg. They have young gaurds on the roster already that they invested in.
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Re: PG: 8 more games to go 

Post#60 » by BullChit » Mon May 3, 2021 9:52 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:What a dissapointment if we don't even make the play-in tournament.

I wonder if they let some fans in for the last week or two of games if the energy would ignite the team.

We're one of the few teams with NO FANS and I think it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE
It's a disadvantage playing teams on the road that have fans IMO.
With the way it's all going fans will probably boo them off the court.

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