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Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion

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Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#1 » by sco » Fri May 14, 2021 5:36 pm

I thought I'd take a shot at a centralized discussion thread for FA PG's next season because there are so many similar threads.

Let's start with our needs:

IMO our biggest 2 needs are:
1) Ability to not only efficiently distribute the ball, but also effectively do so - which means want a guy who can dribble or pass a guy open for a good shot vs. a guy who just passes to an open guy, and do so without a ton of unforced TO's.

2) Defend quick PG's.

Do I care if he can get his own shot - sure, but honestly, with Zach and Vuc, I'm less concerned about it. Also, if we are starting Williams next season, I'd much rather he get the 3rd option shots.

The better options I saw discussed:

Ball - he's a name with hype, and he's had a good season. IMO, he's good, but not great at my 2 items above and he's gonna cost $20-$25M/yr, but he's got upside. I've seen improvement and he's got upside...I like that in a PG.

Graham - odd man out in Cha. Showed he's a decent, but not elite playmaker and his defense seems average. He'll be cheaper and still has upside.

Nunn - he seems like a SG playing next Butler, the team's real PG - not sure how good of a defender he is.

Conley - probably the best at my 1 and 2. he's old and not too durable and unless Utah blows-up, doubt he's going anywhere.

Lowry - also good at 1 and 2. he'll be available, but expensive. he's also old and not durable.

Dragic - like Nunn, seems more like a SG on Mia. Also old.

Dinwiddie - I think he is an ok, but not great playmaker. Seems like a good defender. Obviously he's coming off an injury, but his price might reflect the risk.

Rose - he's improved as a playmaker over the years and is probably still an average defender. Also on the older side, but might come at a reasonable price. Obviously would be a fan fave, but not sure if Zach would like losing the limelight.

Schröder - not sure he's more than average as a playmaker. I think he's a good defender. His price will also be $20M-$25M, but he knows Billy's system, and did well in OKC.

McConnell - he strikes me as the best value play if we are only focused on my 1 & 2. He seems like an average playmaker, but really good defender.

Rubio - A trade target who may have upside after a bad year in Minny.

Other guys I wouldn't love or hate:

Payton

Payne

Ntilikina

Dunn

Caruso

Mills
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#2 » by MrSparkle » Fri May 14, 2021 5:48 pm

Spoiler:
1y plays like Dinwiddie, Mills, McConnell and Lowry make most sense to me.

Lowry keeps being tied to PHI, but does a contender with no cap really want to risk assets and salary space on a declining 35-36yo?

We can work out an exchange for Lauri, since Nurse is apparently hot for Finland. $20-25m (1y deal) S&T would be fair in my book (and perhaps the reason why TOR decided to keep Lowry at the deadline) - assuming TOR is prepared to pay that much for Lauri. Might be in their best interest to sell Pascal high anyway, move towards the inevitable rebuild as they add a lottery pick. Honestly, this isn't the best type of swap as Lauri will "outplay" Lowry at any given moment (father time), but as a short-term fix to prepare for 2022 free agency, mentor Coby/Troy/Pat, provide some defensive leadership, it makes perfect sense for Chicago.

I'd avoid Dragic as his production is really dropping, and he was never a great defender to begin with. Running a 35yo Dragic alongside Zach and Vuc is a recipe for disappointment. This defense can't allow a sieve at PG, so I'd stick to Lonzo, Schroder, Lowry, Payton, Mills or McConnell type of addition... as opposed to Goran, Rose, Graham, Dinwiddie (unless he's grabbed as a replacement for Sato, who I find is a no-man's land combo wing with ineffective offense).
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#3 » by Red8911 » Fri May 14, 2021 6:03 pm

Lowry is older but he might be a good option for maybe a year, two the most.Scores at a high rate, can handle the ball, create,and pass well but his defense won’t help or the fact that he would be taking the ball away from Lavine and Vuc.

Bulls players were all talking to him during yesterday’s game against Toronto including Vuc/Zach. Wonder if they were recruiting him.

With the rest of the list do not want Ball, he would be an expensive mistake. Conley and Schroeder would be good but don’t see them coming here. McConnell is solid but is he the answer? .Would be nice to see Rose come back as a back up not a starter.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#4 » by sco » Fri May 14, 2021 6:08 pm

Red8911 wrote:Lowry is older but he might be a good option for maybe a year, two the most.Scores at a high rate, can handle the ball, create,and pass well but his defense won’t help or the fact that he would be taking the ball away from Lavine and Vuc.

Bulls players were all talking to him during yesterday’s game against Toronto including Vuc/Zach. Wonder if they were recruiting him.

With the rest of the list do not want Ball, he would be an expensive mistake. Conley and Schroeder would be good but don’t see them coming here. McConnell is solid but is he the answer? .Would be nice to see Rose come back as a back up not a starter.


I feel like guys like McConnell are too easily dismissed. Maybe it's just my historical love for Kirk that manifests itself in gritty white PG's, but dude is like a wasp out there, and we really need someone to make life tougher for guys like Young, Irving, VV, Curry, etc.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#5 » by Wingy » Fri May 14, 2021 6:18 pm

Throwing stuff at the wall, but I like the idea of young, buy low guys like Ntilikina...and maybe not for this year...but he’s the type. Similar to TBJ.

I like the idea of one year rentals to maximize space for 2022. Don’t know if he’d play for the QO if we could get him for peanuts.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#6 » by HomoSapien » Fri May 14, 2021 6:33 pm

I actually really like McConnell as an option. My only issue is that I can't figure out if he's significantly better than Sato in order for it to be a true upgrade or if it's more or less a lateral move. Coby's improved play has sort of made Sato a perfectly acceptable backup. Our bigger need honestly may be the SF spot if Coby has truly figured it out.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#7 » by cool007 » Fri May 14, 2021 7:05 pm

My targets this summer.

PG: Lowry, Dinwiddie, Ball, Shroder - in that order. Lowry would be to us what CP3 was to Suns this year.

I would also love to sign and trade Lauri to Spurs for Demar Derozen.

I would like to keep Devonte green, TBJ, Temple and Theis and get rid of Sato, Arci, Valentine, Felicio, and Lauri for sure. Would love to keep Thad Young.

I also would love to bring in TJ McConnel to play off the bench next to Coby.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#8 » by ChettheJet » Fri May 14, 2021 7:15 pm

I'd like to add another component to #1, namely seeing mismatches and getting the ball to THAT guy. The Bulls are just not too good at recognizing when Vuc, Theis or Young sometimes Satoransky have a smaller defender on them in the post. If the new PG can do that and help show the others how to look at the match ups and look for the mismatch that would be a big help.

This assembled list are guys that are for sure or likely available. Some just don't have as much playmaker as combo guard in them and we might as well stick with a cheaper Coby for that. A guy like McConnell is not as good as Kirk Hinrich but a step up from Ryan Arcidacono so is he really worth getting. The better playmakers Ball, Conley and Lowery are going to be expensive to get, expensive to pay and won't leave much room to spend filling the bench and finding a starting forward small or power.

The list I'd like to see isn't as easy to assemble. That's PGs who are under contract for a year or two more and don't look like they could be had right now. But if their team is in the lottery or has the means to get into it and has eyes on one of the highly touted PGs in the draft they might move their current PG as part of clearing room for the rookie they like.

That could be where a S&T for Lauri works for another team. They need a stretch 4 and they want to get that PG in the draft so they ship the Bulls their current PG in the S&T. The Bulls get their PG and the other team gets a veteran stretch 4 for their rookie to pass the ball to.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#9 » by kodo » Fri May 14, 2021 7:21 pm

IMO biggest need is is Free Throw generation. Bulls aren't only last this season, but would be the worst team at this in multiple seasons. On passing we're tied for 4th for highest assists per game, with Denver, our passing is near the top of the league. We're at 26.9 assists per game, league best is 27.7 (GSW), not really a lot of room to improve here.

So when we talk about point guards, like we often do, getting a guy who doesn't score but mostly passes wouldn't really improve the team as much as a penetrating guard that can draw FTs himself or set up bigs who will often get fouled to stop a dunk.

2nd biggest issue is turnovers, on both ends. We're the 4th highest TO team in the league (actually worse for most of the season), and we're also 27th/28th in generating steals & blocks.

I'm less excited about player acquisitions like Ball who won't do much for generating FTs but can pass very well. I don't see us changing much as a team from that expensive acquisition.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#10 » by drosestruts » Fri May 14, 2021 8:04 pm

My out there idea - Kemba Walker.

I think Boston would need to attach at least 1 pick.

Could a Sato + Lauri S&T for Kemba and BOS 2021 1st make some sense?

We recoup a pick from the Vuc trade. Get a point guard.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#11 » by Chi town » Fri May 14, 2021 10:25 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I actually really like McConnell as an option. My only issue is that I can't figure out if he's significantly better than Sato in order for it to be a true upgrade or if it's more or less a lateral move. Coby's improved play has sort of made Sato a perfectly acceptable backup. Our bigger need honestly may be the SF spot if Coby has truly figured it out.


McConnells D, hustle, and edge is exactly what the Bulls need. Just not much potential there. This season is probably his peak. He’s def a backup too.

I like him and Campazzo though.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#12 » by WindyCityBorn » Fri May 14, 2021 11:16 pm

drosestruts wrote:My out there idea - Kemba Walker.

I think Boston would need to attach at least 1 pick.

Could a Sato + Lauri S&T for Kemba and BOS 2021 1st make some sense?

We recoup a pick from the Vuc trade. Get a point guard.


Cannot see Boston doing that. Marcus Smart has sucked so they would be left with no PG. And no Sato is not the answer to that hole
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#13 » by WindyCityBorn » Fri May 14, 2021 11:17 pm

I would still sign Ball if it doesn’t gut the team. All those are other names are just backups or very short term fixes.

I would take Lowry on a 1+1 with team option, but no way he would accept that. Graham meh and he is 26. McConnell is a backup. I guess you look at those types of you are sold on Coby being the answer at PG long term.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#14 » by Dan Z » Sat May 15, 2021 12:20 am

What would a trade for Rubio look like? Would the Wolves take Sato, Aminu and and 2nd round pick for him? I wouldn't give up a first rounder and I'm not sure we have any young players to give them. Rubio had a bad season, but might bounce back.

Spencer Dinwiddie might be interesting and might not be that expensive due to his injury. I just read that he hopes to come back this year (June), but we'll see if that really happens.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#15 » by sco » Sat May 15, 2021 2:40 am

Dan Z wrote:What would a trade for Rubio look like? Would the Wolves take Sato, Aminu and and 2nd round pick for him? I wouldn't give up a first rounder and I'm not sure we have any young players to give them. Rubio had a bad season, but might bounce back.

Spencer Dinwiddie might be interesting and might not be that expensive due to his injury. I just read that he hopes to come back this year (June), but we'll see if that really happens.

Thad straight up works
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#16 » by Chi town » Sat May 15, 2021 4:33 am

sco wrote:
Dan Z wrote:What would a trade for Rubio look like? Would the Wolves take Sato, Aminu and and 2nd round pick for him? I wouldn't give up a first rounder and I'm not sure we have any young players to give them. Rubio had a bad season, but might bounce back.

Spencer Dinwiddie might be interesting and might not be that expensive due to his injury. I just read that he hopes to come back this year (June), but we'll see if that really happens.

Thad straight up works


I could see Thad for Lonzo.

Zion gets a vet mentor.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#17 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat May 15, 2021 5:43 am

Chi town wrote:
sco wrote:
Dan Z wrote:What would a trade for Rubio look like? Would the Wolves take Sato, Aminu and and 2nd round pick for him? I wouldn't give up a first rounder and I'm not sure we have any young players to give them. Rubio had a bad season, but might bounce back.

Spencer Dinwiddie might be interesting and might not be that expensive due to his injury. I just read that he hopes to come back this year (June), but we'll see if that really happens.

Thad straight up works


I could see Thad for Lonzo.

Zion gets a vet mentor.


Thad would probably be the perfect mentor for Zion, with Thad's propensity for scoring in the post over taller defenders and his passing ability from the high post.

The problem is, if we stay over the cap and only send out Thad's salary, the most Lonzo's 1st-year salary can be is $19,290,000. And I think Lonzo can (and probably will) get a bigger deal than that.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#18 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Sat May 15, 2021 9:35 am

Lonzo should be top target or Lowry on short 1yr deal.. DRose or Schroder as 3rd option..

McConnell, Nunn, Dragic, Graham are backups..
Rubio's defense is more poor than average.
Conley wont be available..
Dinwiddie - I really like him, but he isnt playmaker
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#19 » by Chi town » Sat May 15, 2021 4:53 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
sco wrote:Thad straight up works


I could see Thad for Lonzo.

Zion gets a vet mentor.


Thad would probably be the perfect mentor for Zion, with Thad's propensity for scoring in the post over taller defenders and his passing ability from the high post.

The problem is, if we stay over the cap and only send out Thad's salary, the most Lonzo's 1st-year salary can be is $19,290,000. And I think Lonzo can (and probably will) get a bigger deal than that.


With Max raises he will be over 4/80.

I wouldn’t pay him more than that. I’d rather just resign everyone and then have big space next summer.

Our future is tied to...
- Zach taking another step and becoming a top 10 player
- Pat becoming elite
- A star wanting out and wanting the Bulls
- AK drafting another Jokic with a 2nd rounder

Lonzo won’t be the difference between us and contention or playoffs. I think Coby with a McConnel backup is fine.
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Re: Free Agent/Trade For PG Discussion 

Post#20 » by sco » Sat May 15, 2021 8:25 pm

Chi town wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
I could see Thad for Lonzo.

Zion gets a vet mentor.


Thad would probably be the perfect mentor for Zion, with Thad's propensity for scoring in the post over taller defenders and his passing ability from the high post.

The problem is, if we stay over the cap and only send out Thad's salary, the most Lonzo's 1st-year salary can be is $19,290,000. And I think Lonzo can (and probably will) get a bigger deal than that.


With Max raises he will be over 4/80.

I wouldn’t pay him more than that. I’d rather just resign everyone and then have big space next summer.

Our future is tied to...
- Zach taking another step and becoming a top 10 player
- Pat becoming elite
- A star wanting out and wanting the Bulls
- AK drafting another Jokic with a 2nd rounder

Lonzo won’t be the difference between us and contention or playoffs. I think Coby with a McConnel backup is fine.

I would much rather pay 4/$100M for Ball, just to not see Coby ever play PG for us again. That said, I'd be fine with McConnell starting, if again, Coby isn't our PG next season.

On a completely unrelated point, I really don't want Coby to play any PG next season.
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