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The Summer The Bulls Need To Have

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The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#1 » by CobyWhite0 » Mon May 24, 2021 9:10 am

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=81025582360ab610585139247911216

Here's what the Bulls need to do this summer to keep Zach around and get as closed to a guaranteed top-4 East team as you can get this summer with what we have to work with.

First, clear out all the cap space you can. Renounce everyone.

Vuc
Zach
Thad
Aminu
Sato
Mr. Patrick Williams
Coby
TBJ

Gets you to just over $21 mil in cap space.

S&T Lonzo for Sato and 2 2nd-rounders. Lonzo gets $19.1 mil 1st-year, it's 3/60 or 4/82.

Vuc
Zach
Thad
Aminu
Lonzo
Mr. Patrick Williams
Coby
TBJ
$3.3 million in cap space
$4.9 million Room MLE

Trade: Thad, Aminu, TBJ to TOR for Siakam

TOR gets: CHI 1st-round 2025 and 2027 unprotected

TOR gets: Option to swap with CHI 1st-round 2022 and 2024 and 2026 (if no swap, TOR gets our 2nd rounder unprotected)

So TOR gets 2 unprotected 1st's and 3 unprotected 2nd's. And a young talent to look at for a year in TBJ. Plus they can probably get a late 1st from a contender for Thad.

That's the kind of deals that All-Stars are getting traded for. Of course, if they'll take less, that's even better.

TOR seems to be rebuilding, and Siakam clashed with the front office, it only makes sense they don't want to pay him $30 mil the next 3 years to ruin their tank errrr I mean rebuild. And he's not really a #1 guy, but as a #3 guy on offense here who defends at PF? I can't think of a better (realistically available) fit.

After Temple and Green re-sign for their vet min, and Simonovic comes over for his league minimum-

You wind up with this:

Vuc - Simonovic
Siakam
Mr. Patrick Williams - Temple
Zach - Green
Lonzo - Coby

$3.3 million in cap space
$4.9 million Room MLE

Obviously, you need to spend your extra cap space and the Room MLE on big men.

Then you'll have 4 veteran minimums and two 2-way deals.

A good big 3 of recent All-Stars, and our little three of Lonzo, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams isn't a bad youth movement. With that roster, you'll get a couple of "really good" vet min guys.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#2 » by Little Nathan » Mon May 24, 2021 10:01 am

That team would be very interesting for sure. I think Toronto's willingness to listen to offers for Siakam heavily depends on Masai's future there. His comments after the season made it sound like he would at least consider blowing it up to me.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#3 » by CobyWhite0 » Mon May 24, 2021 11:06 am

Little Nathan wrote:That team would be very interesting for sure. I think Toronto's willingness to listen to offers for Siakam heavily depends on Masai's future there. His comments after the season made it sound like he would at least consider blowing it up to me.


Yeah it's hard to say, really it depends on how good of a trio they think Van Fleet - OG - Siakam is.

If we trade Thad and Aminu and TBJ together, we can take back about $37 million. So whoever turns out to be the next team that's rebuilding this summer, or wants to trade a star for some other reason this summer, we can be there with our picks and expirings to (hopefully) add another All-Star.

Or if we trade Aminu and TBJ together, we can take back over $20 million in a trade.

If we trade Thad alone, we can take back over $19 million in a trade.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#4 » by League Circles » Mon May 24, 2021 11:25 am

I don't think there's a chance in hell that you get Siakam for one year of Thad Young as the best piece coming back lol.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#5 » by CobyWhite0 » Mon May 24, 2021 11:40 am

League Circles wrote:I don't think there's a chance in hell that you get Siakam for one year of Thad Young as the best piece coming back lol.


LOL, yeah you'd probably have to throw in a couple of completely unprotected firsts... but I did that.

Maybe 3 swap options unprotected that turn into 2nd's if they don't convey?

Boy, why didn't I think of that?
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#6 » by League Circles » Mon May 24, 2021 11:55 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:
League Circles wrote:I don't think there's a chance in hell that you get Siakam for one year of Thad Young as the best piece coming back lol.


LOL, yeah you'd probably have to throw in a couple of completely unprotected firsts... but I did that.

Maybe 3 swap options unprotected that turn into 2nd's if they don't convey?

Boy, why didn't I think of that?

Oh I read those, I just don't think unprotected firsts (or conditional seconds obviously), especially years into the future, from a team expected to be good, are better than one year or Thad, which isn't that good to begin with. Those "unprotected firsts" project as guys like Valentine, Hutch, Bobby Porter, etc. Nothing special for sure. Obviously you can always get lucky and get a star later in the draft, but Toronto already kinda did that with Siakam if I recall. They'd be dumb to think those picks would turn into good players.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#7 » by League Circles » Mon May 24, 2021 11:57 am

Bottom line, if you want a player like Siakam, you have to START by offering at least one genuinely good player or prospect. This deal would not do that.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#8 » by MalagaBulls » Mon May 24, 2021 12:00 pm

League Circles wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
League Circles wrote:I don't think there's a chance in hell that you get Siakam for one year of Thad Young as the best piece coming back lol.


LOL, yeah you'd probably have to throw in a couple of completely unprotected firsts... but I did that.

Maybe 3 swap options unprotected that turn into 2nd's if they don't convey?

Boy, why didn't I think of that?

Oh I read those, I just don't think unprotected firsts (or conditional seconds obviously), especially years into the future, from a team expected to be good, are better than one year or Thad, which isn't that good to begin with. Those "unprotected firsts" project as guys like Valentine, Hutch, Bobby Porter, etc. Nothing special for sure. Obviously you can always get lucky and get a star later in the draft, but Toronto already kinda did that with Siakam if I recall. They'd be dumb to think those picks would turn into good players.
I have to agree here. If you're talking Siakam there is no way Toronto doesn't hang up unless Williams is in that package.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#9 » by sco » Mon May 24, 2021 12:27 pm

Sign me up for White, Williams and filler for Siakam. Doubt that would get TO to bite, but I'd be all over it.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#10 » by dougthonus » Mon May 24, 2021 12:54 pm

You just built a four seed and have no meaningful draft capital for 7 years. I sort of hate it and sort of love it. I hate it because you can look at those players and see we are obviously well short of where we need to be to really compete. I sort of love it, because I can't imagine how you could end up with anything much better, it's a well balanced lineup with guys that really complement LaVine / Vuc well (especially if Pat Williams develops well).

There are two problems here though:
1: Really good chance that isn't enough money to land Ball. He has a great chance of getting paid more.

2: I doubt Toronto gives up Siakam for that package, the draft capital is too far away. As the pick swaps probably wouldn't hit.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#11 » by SfBull » Mon May 24, 2021 1:31 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:
League Circles wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:
LOL, yeah you'd probably have to throw in a couple of completely unprotected firsts... but I did that.

Maybe 3 swap options unprotected that turn into 2nd's if they don't convey?

Boy, why didn't I think of that?

Oh I read those, I just don't think unprotected firsts (or conditional seconds obviously), especially years into the future, from a team expected to be good, are better than one year or Thad, which isn't that good to begin with. Those "unprotected firsts" project as guys like Valentine, Hutch, Bobby Porter, etc. Nothing special for sure. Obviously you can always get lucky and get a star later in the draft, but Toronto already kinda did that with Siakam if I recall. They'd be dumb to think those picks would turn into good players.
I have to agree here. If you're talking Siakam there is no way Toronto doesn't hang up unless Williams is in that package.

If having a chance of getting a star caliber player like Siakam including Williams in such a package would be a no brainer .
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#12 » by MrSparkle » Mon May 24, 2021 1:42 pm

I felt like Bulls didn’t have the trade assets for a star before the Vuc trade, unless they got a top-5 pick in the draft... So I still think it was largely successful adding Vuc without giving up any quality players and top-5 picks.

But we’re definitely out of the blockbuster/star trade game at this point. Pat/Coby/FRP-swaps could get it done, but I’m not liking the state of that team. We need to put some assets into a two-way wing and conventional PG/playmaker.

The other problem is you can’t use Lauri in such a trade. IMO he needs to be going out as a trade piece if you’re bringing in yet another PF/big. I like Siakam but he’s not worth this use of few remaining assets..
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#13 » by ATRAIN53 » Mon May 24, 2021 1:44 pm

bank it all on Pascial Siakam?

He's a product of Kawhi Leonard why he looked so good 2 years ago.
He's decent, but a game changing max type player?

guy didn't even shoot .300 form 3 last year.

A nice piece but I'd rather have Og Anouby off that roster than Siakam.
Van Vleet at that price on this roster would be a better fit.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#14 » by ChettheJet » Mon May 24, 2021 1:55 pm

The Bulls can do whatever they want, but only fools in some delusional state think other teams are just going to be so eager to help them with their plans.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#15 » by drosestruts » Mon May 24, 2021 2:02 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:bank it all on Pascial Siakam?

He's a product of Kawhi Leonard why he looked so good 2 years ago.
He's decent, but a game changing max type player?

guy didn't even shoot .300 form 3 last year.

A nice piece but I'd rather have Og Anouby off that roster than Siakam.
Van Vleet at that price on this roster would be a better fit.


Kind of agree with this. I think Van Fleet would be better here than Ball or Siakam.

I'm also starting to feel like Ball is just unnecessary. Again I think our primary offense next year will be coming from Zach and Vuc pick and rolls. In your scenario, Siakam is also a ball-in-hand point-forward capable guy. We'd be pretty much using LaVine as a 3&D guard and paying him $20M for it. I just question the value we're getting there.

Heck based on what I just said about Ball I think I may have talked myself out of VanFleet.

Gonna go ponder our offseason options some more.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#16 » by Michael Jackson » Mon May 24, 2021 2:57 pm

drosestruts wrote:
ATRAIN53 wrote:bank it all on Pascial Siakam?

He's a product of Kawhi Leonard why he looked so good 2 years ago.
He's decent, but a game changing max type player?

guy didn't even shoot .300 form 3 last year.

A nice piece but I'd rather have Og Anouby off that roster than Siakam.
Van Vleet at that price on this roster would be a better fit.


Kind of agree with this. I think Van Fleet would be better here than Ball or Siakam.

I'm also starting to feel like Ball is just unnecessary. Again I think our primary offense next year will be coming from Zach and Vuc pick and rolls. In your scenario, Siakam is also a ball-in-hand point-forward capable guy. We'd be pretty much using LaVine as a 3&D guard and paying him $20M for it. I just question the value we're getting there.

Heck based on what I just said about Ball I think I may have talked myself out of VanFleet.

Gonna go ponder our offseason options some more.


I see Ball as a moderate upgrade (which is needed) but not needle mover. He can't be the whole answer to this mess.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#17 » by kodo » Mon May 24, 2021 4:03 pm

Siakam was absolutely miserable when Toronto needed him in the playoffs last year. 17 points on 39%/18%/71% shooting splits. He had a true shooting of 46%.

I do wonder how he's going to look at the end of his current contract when he's 30/31 and making $36M, and we gave up two potential lottery picks for him. At a minimum, I wouldn't do unprotected for Pascal. He's not worth a top 4 pick, much less the off chance of two.

He would be our final piece? Does a trio of Lavine, Vuc, and Siakam have enough ballhandling for the playoffs would be a question.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#18 » by waffle » Mon May 24, 2021 5:36 pm

I want a ball savvy pg who slows down the other team bringing the ball up and around the perimeter. that's pretty much it. And sign Theis...
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#19 » by Tetlak » Mon May 24, 2021 6:27 pm

Yeah Siakam ain't it. He doesn't want to play defense anymore and his offense has devolved into jumpshot chucking.

Theoretically he's a versatile forward that today's NBA is all about but in practice he doesn't seem to want to play that way anymore.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#20 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue May 25, 2021 12:50 am

Siakam on a max deal as our final piece and giving up all flexibility for next 6/7 years? No thanks.

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