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The Summer The Bulls Need To Have

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gobullschi
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#61 » by gobullschi » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:21 pm

drosestruts wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
Well not just cap, in your original post you have Chicago trading Young, Sato, Aminu, and Archi, which by the way is still $7M more incoming with Wall's salary. So Wall isn't just costing us cap space, he'd also be costing us significant depth. Not only the 4 you're trading for him but probably any shot we'd have at keeping Theis, Temple or adding a decent vet.


Someone can double check my numbers but I’m seeing the Bulls would have enough cap to extend Theis to a maximum of $10M annual contract and Temple returning on a similar deal (4.5M).

Aminu and Arcidiacano do not count as depth. They have no business seeing consistent playing time. Your also ignoring the additions of Kenyon Martin Jr. and draft picks to recoup the lost depth on long term affordable contracts.


Why so willing to give Wall the benefit of the doubt after injuries but not Aminu? In theory, he could be a great 4 in our starting lineup wedged in between Wiliams and Vucevic.


Seriously? Because Wall is a 5 time all-star and Aminu has been a fringe starter/back up his entire career...

It amazes me how quickly people dismiss players and ignore the reality of the situation. Free agents aren’t flocking to the Bulls after missing the playoffs AGAIN. Lowry is going to choose to finish his career here? C’mon people. Wake up. Of course Wall has his risks/flaws, but he wouldn’t be a realistic option if those didn’t exist. It’s time to start focusing our attention on real options and how they make the Bulls better, not criticizing those real options because a fantasy option would be ‘better’.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#62 » by waffle » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:29 pm

I think we could attract a high level FA this off season. Playing with Vooch and Zach I think would be fun. We are pretty young and our crowds tend to be pretty into it. Yes, we have winters, but we also have great summers and are a foodie destination city.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#63 » by heir_jordan22 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 7:38 am

drosestruts wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
Well not just cap, in your original post you have Chicago trading Young, Sato, Aminu, and Archi, which by the way is still $7M more incoming with Wall's salary. So Wall isn't just costing us cap space, he'd also be costing us significant depth. Not only the 4 you're trading for him but probably any shot we'd have at keeping Theis, Temple or adding a decent vet.


Someone can double check my numbers but I’m seeing the Bulls would have enough cap to extend Theis to a maximum of $10M annual contract and Temple returning on a similar deal (4.5M).

Aminu and Arcidiacano do not count as depth. They have no business seeing consistent playing time. Your also ignoring the additions of Kenyon Martin Jr. and draft picks to recoup the lost depth on long term affordable contracts.


Why so willing to give Wall the benefit of the doubt after injuries but not Aminu? In theory, he could be a great 4 in our starting lineup wedged in between Wiliams and Vucevic.

This is completely absurd.

1. John Wall was an all star quite recently.
2. Aminu in his prime would be our 5th big.
3. You do realize that post was public, right?
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#64 » by PlayerUp » Sat Jun 5, 2021 10:36 am

kodo wrote:John Wall scored at 50% TS...that's amazingly bad. Unleashing Arcidiacano (54% TS) would be better.

Bulls are in a weird situation where we're a bad team but actually finding shooting partners to Lavine (63% TS) to replace likely exiting offensive players Lauri (61% TS) and Sato (61% TS & 7.5 assists per 36) isn't as easy as we would think.


Well you would expect John Wall to bounce back since he is only 30 but he had poor advanced stats prior to his injury as well.

For $40m a year, not worth it in my opinion. We've seen the best of Wall and it's not enough to put us over the top. You add Wall and we're paying $100m for 3 players with Wall being our 3rd best player on this roster. We'll be a 1st Rd 2nd Rd team for years to come.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#65 » by gobullschi » Sat Jun 5, 2021 1:11 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
kodo wrote:John Wall scored at 50% TS...that's amazingly bad. Unleashing Arcidiacano (54% TS) would be better.

Bulls are in a weird situation where we're a bad team but actually finding shooting partners to Lavine (63% TS) to replace likely exiting offensive players Lauri (61% TS) and Sato (61% TS & 7.5 assists per 36) isn't as easy as we would think.


Well you would expect John Wall to bounce back since he is only 30 but he had poor advanced stats prior to his injury as well.

For $40m a year, not worth it in my opinion. We've seen the best of Wall and it's not enough to put us over the top. You add Wall and we're paying $100m for 3 players with Wall being our 3rd best player on this roster. We'll be a 1st Rd 2nd Rd team for years to come.


The Bulls will be a 1st or 2nd round team regardless, unless Patrick Williams or Coby White develop into a difference maker. The only other scenario would be if age starts to catch up to LeBron, Durant, Harden, & Curry.

John Wall also brings a defensive presence, which is something the Bulls need next to Vucevic and LaVine.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#66 » by mack2354 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 6:34 pm

gobullschi wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
Someone can double check my numbers but I’m seeing the Bulls would have enough cap to extend Theis to a maximum of $10M annual contract and Temple returning on a similar deal (4.5M).

Aminu and Arcidiacano do not count as depth. They have no business seeing consistent playing time. Your also ignoring the additions of Kenyon Martin Jr. and draft picks to recoup the lost depth on long term affordable contracts.


Why so willing to give Wall the benefit of the doubt after injuries but not Aminu? In theory, he could be a great 4 in our starting lineup wedged in between Wiliams and Vucevic.


Seriously? Because Wall is a 5 time all-star and Aminu has been a fringe starter/back up his entire career...

It amazes me how quickly people dismiss players and ignore the reality of the situation. Free agents aren’t flocking to the Bulls after missing the playoffs AGAIN. Lowry is going to choose to finish his career here? C’mon people. Wake up. Of course Wall has his risks/flaws, but he wouldn’t be a realistic option if those didn’t exist. It’s time to start focusing our attention on real options and how they make the Bulls better, not criticizing those real options because a fantasy option would be ‘better’.


You could have replaced Lowry with Paul and Bulls with Suns to say this exact same thing. Paul will stay because they have a young up and coming star in Booker with good supporting pieces. Lowry could see himself doing the same thing here that Paul has been able to do with the Suns.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#67 » by sco » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:36 pm

My latest ideas:

S&T Lauri to BOS for Smart
Resign Theis/Green
Operate over the cap - use MLE to sign Rose, use Bi-Annual Exception to bring back RoLo
Draft Isaiah Livers at 39
Bring over Simonovic

Roll with:

Smart, Rose, Sato
Zach, Coby, Green
PWill, TBJ, Livers
Theis, Thad, Simonovic
Vuc, (Theis), RoLo
:clap:
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#68 » by Am2626 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:37 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=81025582360ab610585139247911216

Here's what the Bulls need to do this summer to keep Zach around and get as closed to a guaranteed top-4 East team as you can get this summer with what we have to work with.

First, clear out all the cap space you can. Renounce everyone.

Vuc
Zach
Thad
Aminu
Sato
Mr. Patrick Williams
Coby
TBJ

Gets you to just over $21 mil in cap space.

S&T Lonzo for Sato and 2 2nd-rounders. Lonzo gets $19.1 mil 1st-year, it's 3/60 or 4/82.

Vuc
Zach
Thad
Aminu
Lonzo
Mr. Patrick Williams
Coby
TBJ
$3.3 million in cap space
$4.9 million Room MLE

Trade: Thad, Aminu, TBJ to TOR for Siakam

TOR gets: CHI 1st-round 2025 and 2027 unprotected

TOR gets: Option to swap with CHI 1st-round 2022 and 2024 and 2026 (if no swap, TOR gets our 2nd rounder unprotected)

So TOR gets 2 unprotected 1st's and 3 unprotected 2nd's. And a young talent to look at for a year in TBJ. Plus they can probably get a late 1st from a contender for Thad.

That's the kind of deals that All-Stars are getting traded for. Of course, if they'll take less, that's even better.

TOR seems to be rebuilding, and Siakam clashed with the front office, it only makes sense they don't want to pay him $30 mil the next 3 years to ruin their tank errrr I mean rebuild. And he's not really a #1 guy, but as a #3 guy on offense here who defends at PF? I can't think of a better (realistically available) fit.

After Temple and Green re-sign for their vet min, and Simonovic comes over for his league minimum-

You wind up with this:

Vuc - Simonovic
Siakam
Mr. Patrick Williams - Temple
Zach - Green
Lonzo - Coby

$3.3 million in cap space
$4.9 million Room MLE

Obviously, you need to spend your extra cap space and the Room MLE on big men.

Then you'll have 4 veteran minimums and two 2-way deals.

A good big 3 of recent All-Stars, and our little three of Lonzo, Coby and Mr. Patrick Williams isn't a bad youth movement. With that roster, you'll get a couple of "really good" vet min guys.


You said in order for this to even work everyone has to be renounced. That’s just not realistic. No team will do that.
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Re: The Summer The Bulls Need To Have 

Post#69 » by kodo » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:31 pm

mack2354 wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
Why so willing to give Wall the benefit of the doubt after injuries but not Aminu? In theory, he could be a great 4 in our starting lineup wedged in between Wiliams and Vucevic.


Seriously? Because Wall is a 5 time all-star and Aminu has been a fringe starter/back up his entire career...

It amazes me how quickly people dismiss players and ignore the reality of the situation. Free agents aren’t flocking to the Bulls after missing the playoffs AGAIN. Lowry is going to choose to finish his career here? C’mon people. Wake up. Of course Wall has his risks/flaws, but he wouldn’t be a realistic option if those didn’t exist. It’s time to start focusing our attention on real options and how they make the Bulls better, not criticizing those real options because a fantasy option would be ‘better’.


You could have replaced Lowry with Paul and Bulls with Suns to say this exact same thing. Paul will stay because they have a young up and coming star in Booker with good supporting pieces. Lowry could see himself doing the same thing here that Paul has been able to do with the Suns.


But Chris Paul did not sign as a FA to the Phoenix Suns. He was traded there.
They offered a huge package for CP3, 3 starter caliber players (Oube, Olynyk, and Rubio) + 2 more bench players + a 1st round pick.

If CP3 was a UFA last offseason, I doubt he'd sign with the Suns.

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