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I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr

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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#21 » by HomoSapien » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:07 pm

_txchilibowl_ wrote:Saying Porter Jr regret is hindsight is just lazy analysis


Yes, plus so many were advocating for us to draft him.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#22 » by bullslas » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:12 pm

I was excited in thinking the Bulls were going to get the steal of the draft in MPJ, instead we took WCJ. I was shocked then that so many teams passed him up, including the Bulls, and I'm still shocked we messed that up.

MPJ probably ends up as a Bull someday though.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#23 » by dougthonus » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:30 pm

I liked Carter. I thought he projected out as a good shooter at the time, and if Carter had actually been able to consistently knock down open jump shots, he would have been a really solid player (and still might be in the future). That said, he just never developed any jumper at all in the NBA. Based on his relatively small, but consistent sample combined with solid looking form, I thought he'd have developed better.

Shai would have been the guy I regret more than Porter Jr (not that I was high on Shai prior to the draft personally or anything), though Porter Jr would obviously be pretty great right now too. At the same time, Porter Jr missed nearly two full seasons to start his career. It's not very common a guy does that and then goes on to be a great player. He'll be the exception, but he might literally be the first guy I can think of two miss two full seasons with two back surgeries and then go on to be highly productive afterwards.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#24 » by Hold That » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:56 pm

Not drafting MPJ set us back a couple of years. I can forgive Shai and Bridges because they weren’t big time prospects coming out of high school and college. But MPJ has always projected to be elite dating back to H.S. I can understand the back concerns but with us picking outside the top 5 he was MORE than worth the risk. Wendell was never a prospect that anyone was wowed by. And definitely not a player I would’ve taken in order to pass on Colin Sexton let alone MPJ. Especially KNOWING MPJ would’ve sat, and the next year Zion was coming out which gave us more incentive to tank.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#25 » by TheJordanRule » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:57 pm

Another example of why tanking is a poor strategy. Even in the off chance that you get the pick, the odds of cashing it in the right way are slimmer than the odds of getting a decent player who doesn't move the needle, or a bust (except for the first pick). If you didn't understand what a crapshoot the draft is back when the rules / odds were better for tanking teams, maybe you'll at least understand that now.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#26 » by Mbrahv0528 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 10:42 pm

Hold That wrote:Not drafting MPJ set us back a couple of years. I can forgive Shai and Bridges because they weren’t big time prospects coming out of high school and college. But MPJ has always projected to be elite dating back to H.S. I can understand the back concerns but with us picking outside the top 5 he was MORE than worth the risk. Wendell was never a prospect that anyone was wowed by. And definitely not a player I would’ve taken in order to pass on Colin Sexton let alone MPJ. Especially KNOWING MPJ would’ve sat, and the next year Zion was coming out which gave us more incentive to tank.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#27 » by Ice Man » Tue Jun 8, 2021 10:59 pm

Porter was a Top 5 talent who was known to be a major injury risk. That bumped him back to being a mid-round pick. We weren't going to take him with a #7 pick, and I highly doubt that Denver would have either, if it had the #7 selection. Too much of a gamble for such a relatively high pick.

Same applies to Giannis (intriguing athlete but super raw) and Kawhi (intriguing athlete, excellent defender, but crappy college shooter), which is why they went mid-round too. Some great players just won't go at the #7 slot, either because they are too obviously good (ZIon, LeBron), or because they have too many question marks, as with those three players that I just mentioned.

I won't go at GarPax for that one.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#28 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Jun 8, 2021 11:54 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
sco wrote:WCJ looked like he had very good lateral speed, elite shot blocking and a 3pt stroke that would translate to the NBA

He really didn't, people just saw "Al Horford" somewhere and decided he was that without actually bothering to look at his tape in a critical manner.

I don't blame them for skipping on Porter though. 19 and already having serious back issues? That's not a good sign. I'm still not convinced he will have a long and healthy career.



I don’t blame pax on that one either. MPJ had terrible medicals and Denver knew they were taking a big risk. That being said WCJ was never a great pick, didn’t see it at all. I forgive MPJ, but don’t forgive the choice of WCJ
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#29 » by Axl Rose » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:01 am

TheSuzerain wrote:Above all else we screwed up the tank that year. Picking 7th was the failure more so than picking WCJ at #7.


this this this. They were in prime position to tank with Zach out rehabbing, Lauri only being a rookie, and the rest of the roster being mediocre-to-awful - but they re-signed Niko and he busted our tank (we were 3-20 before he showed up).

To make things worse Chandler Hutchinson was what we ended up getting for Niko.

Granted GarPax would have probably botched it and took Bagley (like rumored) or Jaren Jackson over Luka or Trae.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#30 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:05 am

HomoSapien wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:Saying Porter Jr regret is hindsight is just lazy analysis


Yes, plus so many were advocating for us to draft him.


I definitely was. We screwed as usual.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#31 » by Muzbar » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:17 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I wanted a MPJ, Mitch Rob draft that year.

Again hindsight, but imagine we tanked right the following year, get the 2nd pick and run with Ja, MPJ and Mitch Rob.

That's how you rebuild.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#32 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:42 am

I wonder if I go over to the Blazers' board, will I see a thread titled "I went to MSG to see the Blazers draft Michael Jordan and we came away with Sam freaking Bowie"?

I'm assuming I can go to every team's board and find a thread titled "I went to MSG to see (my team) draft Nikola Jokic and we wound up with (any of the 40 players drafted ahead of Jokic who haven't won an MVP award)".

The "we passed on this guy for another guy" stuff is always pretty stupid IMO, because every team in the league can play that game over the last 5 years max. Seriously, if you want to whine and moan about a player we didn't draft, why wouldn't it be Jokic? We had the #16 and #19 picks that year, and passed on the MVP TWICE?? WTF??? :rolleyes:
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#33 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:53 am

dougthonus wrote:I liked Carter. I thought he projected out as a good shooter at the time, and if Carter had actually been able to consistently knock down open jump shots, he would have been a really solid player (and still might be in the future). That said, he just never developed any jumper at all in the NBA. Based on his relatively small, but consistent sample combined with solid looking form, I thought he'd have developed better.

Shai would have been the guy I regret more than Porter Jr (not that I was high on Shai prior to the draft personally or anything), though Porter Jr would obviously be pretty great right now too. At the same time, Porter Jr missed nearly two full seasons to start his career. It's not very common a guy does that and then goes on to be a great player. He'll be the exception, but he might literally be the first guy I can think of two miss two full seasons with two back surgeries and then go on to be highly productive afterwards.


Yeah, this is where I'm at. It stings to see someone we could have drafted doing great, but all things considered, he was a gamble, with back issues. The Bulls just weren't in a position to draft a player who wasn't going to play for a season or more, while we waited until he could possibly get healthy and then develop - not at number 7. Denver on the flip side were in a position to make the gamble because they were already a playoff team.

That said though, there were A LOT of whispers about the Bulls looking to draft him, and him wanting to be picked by the Bulls. Not sure if the Bulls eventually balked because of the injury concerns, but with all the rumours circulating about the interest from both sides, it seems like it was definitely a possibility - though, I'm not sure if that makes fans feel better or worse about the situation. I'm personally not losing sleep about MPJ, not as much as the Bulls not drafting Donovan Mitchell the season before, and I was a fan of the Lauri pick, but I really wanted Donovan.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#34 » by HomoSapien » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:40 am

I honestly was okay with MPJ having to sit out a year, because it would have allowed us to potentially tank another year.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#35 » by dougthonus » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:24 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I honestly was okay with MPJ having to sit out a year, because it would have allowed us to potentially tank another year.


If I thought MPJ would eventually be healthy, I would too. It's similar to the Embiid situation. Jus the guys who sit so long and become great are so few, the risk that you get nothing is so high. That said, it obviously would have worked out well with Porter. In the same situation of a guy with high upside, but still a huge unknown, whom missed his one year of college and will miss his first year in the NBA, I'd probably pass again unless the prospect was a LeBron level prospect. Porter wasn't a no brainer #1 type going into the year though. But again, in this case that philosophical belief I have would be completely wrong and yield a poor result.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#36 » by fleet » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:07 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:Above all else we screwed up the tank that year. Picking 7th was the failure more so than picking WCJ at #7.

But yeah WCJ just never appeared all that talented. Drafting that guy can bite you when the guy with talent picked later ends up overcoming his health issues. But unfortunately, we've been plagued with risk averse management who'd rather plug holes than build a contender.

WCJ being the pick was what always made me cringe enough to be willing to roll the dice on MPJ against the tide. And the Bulls situation. Situation being we needed premium talent more than looking for higher floors. Why the **** not?
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#37 » by Lexluthor » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:18 pm

I was never impressed by Wendell Carter when he was at Duke . It was just an awful Draft pick
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#38 » by Hold That » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:29 pm

Mbrahv0528 wrote:
Hold That wrote:Not drafting MPJ set us back a couple of years. I can forgive Shai and Bridges because they weren’t big time prospects coming out of high school and college. But MPJ has always projected to be elite dating back to H.S. I can understand the back concerns but with us picking outside the top 5 he was MORE than worth the risk. Wendell was never a prospect that anyone was wowed by. And definitely not a player I would’ve taken in order to pass on Colin Sexton let alone MPJ. Especially KNOWING MPJ would’ve sat, and the next year Zion was coming out which gave us more incentive to tank.
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It definitely did. Another 4 years in no man’s land is our future, with only 2 first round picks in those next 4 years. Drafting WCJ made us desperate enough to trade off 2 first rounders for a 30 year old Vuc that doesn’t move the needle.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#39 » by TheJordanRule » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:53 pm

Lexluthor wrote:I was never impressed by Wendell Carter when he was at Duke . It was just an awful Draft pick


Hindsight is 20/20 only because we get to see how these prospects developed.

In college, WC:
PER 28.2
TS % 62.8
3 PT % 41.3
BPG 2.2
RPG 9.1

...in very limited minutes (26.9 per game), in his freshman season, playing second fiddle to Bagley.

From there, Carter basically took a dive after his rookie season with us, focusing on developing his strength at the very sharp cost of his speed, which was already average to begin with and now, after that initial burst of excitement in Orlando, he's gone back to falling off the edge. Carter was a strong bet. At the time he was a much better bet than MPJ because, as Doug said, most prospects with injury issues usually bust or have short lived careers before they get hurt again. And, although MPJ traveled a long painful number of years to beat the bust label, there's no proof that he won't reinjure his back at some point in the future and be out of the NBA.
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Re: I went to Barclay Center to watch the Bulls draft Michael Porter Jr and we came away with Wendell freaking Carter Jr 

Post#40 » by Brothaman33 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:47 pm

This is why I've come to hate the draft, and definitely the comparing players after you didn't draft them...

Because, I don't know...you don't know...no one knows.

To act like MPJ didn't have red flags is rediculous. The amount of "back problems don't go away" posts I read on here was staggering. They look to have not mattered. Cool. Maybe they will matter, maybe they won't. Cool. I didn't know then and most people didn't either, they drafted him and it seems to be working.

I wanted Mo Bamba in that draft. He looked fairly high upside, 900 foot arms with an improving jump shot. He sucks.

I thought Doncic was gonna be too slow. Whoops. I also thought Trae Young would translate very well and thay SGA was underrated. Nailed it.

I'm awesome and talent evaluation when I don't suck at it. The draft is a cluster**** of players who 70% of the time suck but who most people are SURE they are going to be great.

I dunno, neither do you.
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