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I think ORL might be the place to look but not Isaac as mentioned he's signed and expensive. I don't see the Bulls giving up on the long term to take a chance on somebody expensive or injury prone like Isaac. The biggest move I see would be with ORL for Mo Bamba.

Bamba is currently at 30 minutes 11 points and 9 rebounds, Carter at the PF 28 minutes, 13 points and 9 rebounds. So here they are at 4-11, 15th in the East playing him and Carter together. Since they've signed Carter for 4 years and have Isaac locked up do they extend Bamba because they think the three of them are going to be their future front line? And they would have to extend Bamba because his QO if $22M.

Maybe ORL doesn't like the PORT pick, would they want 3 FRPs next year? So maybe it's a three team deal so ORL gets a young player from a team without a pick.

I just think Vuc can play some with Bamba and DeRozan and any 2 guards, either of them could play with DJJ at the 4 and three guards. come next year they can see how well it worked out. They could let Bamba go, or they see him as the future so they deal Vuc or they keep them both. They have options depending on what happens.

MrSparkle wrote:

Michael Jackson wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:
Well and I wouldn't dump two very young and decently talented offensive guards in Coby and Troy for a pile of DNP talent either. I don't think Bol actually holds any NBA value besides his height/name wow factor. So that FRP would be a starting point for Coby. If it's lotto protected, I don't see why DEN would value the pick so much. This is all assuming they see something in Coby. He could easily go back to being a 25-pt. threat every night, especially with Jokic sending mail.

Which hey, I do. But it's gonna be an interesting season having Coby basically wrestle minutes from a rookie 2nd rounder.

Their FRP is worth nothing really, as it won’t be lotto, but FRP are worth more than players as far as equity. Way more than they should be. It just seems anymore that they are only spent on allstar type players, not project types. The value of first rounders is way over what it is but that is the climate of the NBA today.

Yeah. Well, it is a salary consideration too. You get a shot at a higher ceiling player with 4y of lower-end salary. It just comes down to how AKME and DEN feel about the upcoming draft, and roster minutes. Coby needs an extension after next year, and Troy's expiring now. They're scrounging for minutes in our guard rotation. In DEN, they'd find opportunities due to injuries.

I'm just trying to think of the best return for Coby if it doesn't look like he's in Bulls' long term plans. That DJJ/1st return for Lauri was a satisfying catch (not that special), but quite the stand-off.

Frankly I have a lot of faith in AKME and Donovan's combined ability to draft late, so I'm way more OK with late FRPs than I was under GarPax. Do agree FRPs are generally an overrated asset.

I agree that FRP's are so valued because if you hit on one of them, you have someone who outperforms their cost and it is easier to build around that. Mid late FRP's still have some value that way too, as it doesn't have to be a superstar outperform, just a better than average.

I also agree I like what they can get later in the draft. Ayo being the latest example but ahem... Jokic?

Michael Jackson wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:

Michael Jackson wrote:
Their FRP is worth nothing really, as it won’t be lotto, but FRP are worth more than players as far as equity. Way more than they should be. It just seems anymore that they are only spent on allstar type players, not project types. The value of first rounders is way over what it is but that is the climate of the NBA today.

Yeah. Well, it is a salary consideration too. You get a shot at a higher ceiling player with 4y of lower-end salary. It just comes down to how AKME and DEN feel about the upcoming draft, and roster minutes. Coby needs an extension after next year, and Troy's expiring now. They're scrounging for minutes in our guard rotation. In DEN, they'd find opportunities due to injuries.

I'm just trying to think of the best return for Coby if it doesn't look like he's in Bulls' long term plans. That DJJ/1st return for Lauri was a satisfying catch (not that special), but quite the stand-off.

Frankly I have a lot of faith in AKME and Donovan's combined ability to draft late, so I'm way more OK with late FRPs than I was under GarPax. Do agree FRPs are generally an overrated asset.

I agree that FRP's are so valued because if you hit on one of them, you have someone who outperforms their cost and it is easier to build around that. Mid late FRP's still have some value that way too, as it doesn't have to be a superstar outperform, just a better than average.

I also agree I like what they can get later in the draft. Ayo being the latest example but ahem... Jokic?

Butler, Draymond. A lot of really impactful guys have been drafted late.

Bulls2021 wrote:

Michael Jackson wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:
Yeah. Well, it is a salary consideration too. You get a shot at a higher ceiling player with 4y of lower-end salary. It just comes down to how AKME and DEN feel about the upcoming draft, and roster minutes. Coby needs an extension after next year, and Troy's expiring now. They're scrounging for minutes in our guard rotation. In DEN, they'd find opportunities due to injuries.

I'm just trying to think of the best return for Coby if it doesn't look like he's in Bulls' long term plans. That DJJ/1st return for Lauri was a satisfying catch (not that special), but quite the stand-off.

Frankly I have a lot of faith in AKME and Donovan's combined ability to draft late, so I'm way more OK with late FRPs than I was under GarPax. Do agree FRPs are generally an overrated asset.

I agree that FRP's are so valued because if you hit on one of them, you have someone who outperforms their cost and it is easier to build around that. Mid late FRP's still have some value that way too, as it doesn't have to be a superstar outperform, just a better than average.

I also agree I like what they can get later in the draft. Ayo being the latest example but ahem... Jokic?

Butler, Draymond. A lot of really impactful guys have been drafted late.

Sure, so has Jokic, Baron Davis, he’ll even Kawhi to an extent. The odds though aren’t in the favor of that though.

Trade the Pat/Coby package with salary filler for Jerami Grant.

Go all in for a title for the next 2 years. If it goes bust, he expires at the same time as Vuc so we can retool.

I think that team could do some serious damage in the East and go toe to toe with Milwaukee.

Looking towards the playoffs we have a serious liability in the fact that we don't have anybody who matches up with Giannis. Or even bigger wings like Tatum. That problem gets solved immediately.

bullsnewdynasty wrote:Trade the Pat/Coby package with salary filler for Jerami Grant.

Go all in for a title for the next 2 years. If it goes bust, he expires at the same time as Vuc so we can retool.

I think that team could do some serious damage in the East and go toe to toe with Milwaukee.

Looking towards the playoffs we have a serious liability in the fact that we don't have anybody who matches up with Giannis. Or even bigger wings like Tatum. That problem gets solved immediately.

A) No way we get Grant for any package including a White/Pat. For the same reason we want to include them.

B) I'm still of the mind that adding high utilization guys like Grant, Wood, etc. isn't going to help as much as a couple of role players. IMO, we need another competent big body big off the bench and someone to be Coby insurance in case he can't get his sh*t together this season.

What would you think about Christian Wood for the 4? Of course that would have to start with a conversation of PW, Coby, and one of our 2022 FRP's ( Probably the Portland pick if it conveys).
Too much or not enough?

MalagaBulls wrote:What would you think about Christian Wood for the 4? Of course that would have to start with a conversation of PW, Coby, and one of our 2022 FRP's ( Probably the Portland pick if it conveys).
Too much or not enough?

Again, I don't think HOU does it during this season with Pat being a bit of a question mark. Also, per my prior post, I think Wood functions best as a high utilization guy and I see that messing with our chemistry. Also, I think HOU can get a better offer for him elsewhere.

I'm still thinking we try to get Rolo. He's a perfect sort of guy.

I don't think the Bulls are looking to trade for another high usage starter. So i think guys like Woods and Grant are none starters. You need to be looking at guys who don't need the ball and wont cost a ton. Brandon Clarke would be someone who would be easy to get and provide what the Bulls need without needing the ball in his hand all the time.

sco wrote:I'm still thinking we try to get Rolo. He's a perfect sort of guy.

I sort of agree with this. I'd give Bradley another 15 games or so to see if he can step it up as it would be great to have him as a long term answer at the backup 5, but if he's not on track then ROLO seems like a really smart win now move.

With a healthy Vuc, DJJ playing well at the 4 or small ball 5, and DDR shooting better than expected I suppose at or near the perimeter, someone like ROLO can play spot minutes in the rotation to firm up the 5, can fit in quickly (hugely important) and does things like box out and set screens at a Very high level. He'd fit perfectly with the personality of the team and give us that enforcer element on the court. Understanding that ROLO not going to be running much, but that mitigated if shorter minutes, only question for me is how far do we need him to play from the basket in BD's defensive scheme, and can he still give productive minutes at his age?

With our viable trade chips at low value right now, any splash move may have to wait until the offseason... depending on what's available at the deadline. With ROLO being buried in Orlando, it seems like he should be very gettable without giving up much. Doesn't really help us at the 4, but at least it helps our size overall (and oa talent level) and I guess I have confidence in BD to use him effectively in lineups.

Portiseyes wrote:

sco wrote:I'm still thinking we try to get Rolo. He's a perfect sort of guy.

I sort of agree with this. I'd give Bradley another 15 games or so to see if he can step it up as it would be great to have him as a long term answer at the backup 5, but if he's not on track then ROLO seems like a really smart win now move.

With a healthy Vuc, DJJ playing well at the 4 or small ball 5, and DDR shooting better than expected I suppose at or near the perimeter, someone like ROLO can play spot minutes in the rotation to firm up the 5, can fit in quickly (hugely important) and does things like box out and set screens at a Very high level. He'd fit perfectly with the personality of the team and give us that enforcer element on the court. Understanding that ROLO not going to be running much, but that mitigated if shorter minutes, only question for me is how far do we need him to play from the basket in BD's defensive scheme, and can he still give productive minutes at his age?

With our viable trade chips at low value right now, any splash move may have to wait until the offseason... depending on what's available at the deadline. With ROLO being buried in Orlando, it seems like he should be very gettable without giving up much. Doesn't really help us at the 4, but at least it helps our size overall (and oa talent level) and I guess I have confidence in BD to use him effectively in lineups.

I'd go after RoLo regardless of Bradley's play for needed depth. I'm thinking we could nab him using a non-rotation guy or a 2nd round pick.

sco wrote:

Portiseyes wrote:

sco wrote:I'm still thinking we try to get Rolo. He's a perfect sort of guy.

I sort of agree with this. I'd give Bradley another 15 games or so to see if he can step it up as it would be great to have him as a long term answer at the backup 5, but if he's not on track then ROLO seems like a really smart win now move.

With a healthy Vuc, DJJ playing well at the 4 or small ball 5, and DDR shooting better than expected I suppose at or near the perimeter, someone like ROLO can play spot minutes in the rotation to firm up the 5, can fit in quickly (hugely important) and does things like box out and set screens at a Very high level. He'd fit perfectly with the personality of the team and give us that enforcer element on the court. Understanding that ROLO not going to be running much, but that mitigated if shorter minutes, only question for me is how far do we need him to play from the basket in BD's defensive scheme, and can he still give productive minutes at his age?

With our viable trade chips at low value right now, any splash move may have to wait until the offseason... depending on what's available at the deadline. With ROLO being buried in Orlando, it seems like he should be very gettable without giving up much. Doesn't really help us at the 4, but at least it helps our size overall (and oa talent level) and I guess I have confidence in BD to use him effectively in lineups.

I'd go after RoLo regardless of Bradley's play for needed depth. I'm thinking we could nab him using a non-rotation guy or a 2nd round pick.

Had hopes for TBJ, but would trade him for RoLo today. edit - doesn't look like Rolo's seen the court at all in november. Seems like a smart move for both teams.

The latest story is Rui Hachimura is going to begin working out with the WASH G League team. Not that he's coming to the Bulls but when he is NBA ready he adds to the front court overload that the WIZ have. That is likely to force their hand to make a trade rather than have too many players, some being unhappy on the bench, for those 96 minutes.

ChettheJet wrote:The latest story is Rui Hachimura is going to begin working out with the WASH G League team. Not that he's coming to the Bulls but when he is NBA ready he adds to the front court overload that the WIZ have. That is likely to force their hand to make a trade rather than have too many players, some being unhappy on the bench, for those 96 minutes.

What would you offer Washington for him? I imagine they still like his potential and can find minutes for him.

Jcool0 wrote:I don't think the Bulls are looking to trade for another high usage starter. So i think guys like Woods and Grant are none starters. You need to be looking at guys who don't need the ball and wont cost a ton. Brandon Clarke would be someone who would be easy to get and provide what the Bulls need without needing the ball in his hand all the time.

i agree with this with the caveat that i think grant could be very good as "a guy who doesn't need the ball" if he's willing to be the #4 option on offense. have him be a super role player alongside the starters; use him as your secondary creator alongside derozan for bench units.

in general, if the bulls are looking for "big man depth," i think they need a thick 6'8" dude or a long, athletic 6'9"+ dude wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more than they need another 7' body just for the sake of size. i would kill for clarke, but it's hard for me to properly assess his value given his age/skills vs. actual playing time. he's obviously better than coby so i imagine we'd have to sweeten a deal beyond that. but is coby + a 1st overkill? could we just do, like, tbj + a 1st? is that overkill? do the grizzlies even value a likely non-lotto first-round pick enough to give away clarke? i dunno

I wonder if we can also snag Moore from ORL for next to nothing? He'd be good Coby insurance.

I bet Orlando basically trades Lopez for cheap to a playoff team. Likely a future heavily protected 2nd rounder. His contract fits perfect with the Theis trade exception($5mil).

Then I'd look to flip TBJ+ for depth at the 4. I'm calling Memphis for Clarke or Anderson.

nomorezorro wrote:

Jcool0 wrote:I don't think the Bulls are looking to trade for another high usage starter. So i think guys like Woods and Grant are none starters. You need to be looking at guys who don't need the ball and wont cost a ton. Brandon Clarke would be someone who would be easy to get and provide what the Bulls need without needing the ball in his hand all the time.

i agree with this with the caveat that i think grant could be very good as "a guy who doesn't need the ball" if he's willing to be the #4 option on offense. have him be a super role player alongside the starters; use him as your secondary creator alongside derozan for bench units.

in general, if the bulls are looking for "big man depth," i think they need a thick 6'8" dude or a long, athletic 6'9"+ dude wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more than they need another 7' body just for the sake of size. i would kill for clarke, but it's hard for me to properly assess his value given his age/skills vs. actual playing time. he's obviously better than coby so i imagine we'd have to sweeten a deal beyond that. but is coby + a 1st overkill? could we just do, like, tbj + a 1st? is that overkill? do the grizzlies even value a likely non-lotto first-round pick enough to give away clarke? i dunno

Bulls don't need a "4th option". They need rebounding and another guys to play down low. If the ball isnt in Grants hands he is pretty useless. Over his last 5 games he is averaging 17 points on 39% shooting with 3 rebounds and 1.8 assists.

they absolutely could use a fourth creator because our bench offense basically hinges on derozan making 60% of his midrange shots and energy guys willing extra opportunities into existence.

grant was a fourth option in denver, if that. the overwhelming majority of his shots were assisted and he put up a 59.1% true shooting percentage while shooting 39% on threes. he's fallen off a cliff as a lead option in detroit after a hot start last season, but i don't see why he couldn't slot right back into that 3/d/energy wing role he's operated in for most of his career. and, in theory, the time he's spent in detroit would make him more comfortable stepping up when one of our big three is having an off night (or just feasting on second units alongside derozan)