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Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#21 » by kulaz3000 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:30 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Well, I'm definitely going to buy a copy. Am I the only one who felt like Pippen didn't even come across that badly in The Last Dance? I feel like he was a little under mentioned at times, but if anything I walked away feeling even more sorry about how he was treated by management.


Yeah, Pippen always seemed to be a little over-sensitive, because like you, I really don't think he came out of the series bad, not as much as Jordan anyway. But it's Pippen's sensitivity was a strength and a weakness for him as a basketball player, because Jordan was the bad cop and Pippen played the good cop who could empathies with the teammates.

But I'll be honest, just from his quotes alone, he comes across as a little b**ch. I mean, get over it already, the both of you benefited greatly because of each other. And The Last Dance doesn't even get thought of being made if it wasn't because of Jordan.

What more does he want at this point? He is a hall of famer, he made lots of money, almost every time Jordan is mentioned, Pippen's name isn't too far behind in the discussions and they will effectively always be linked, mostly in a positive way.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#22 » by erlim » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:16 am

Pip seems like he can come across as prickley at times because he doesn’t really censor what he says.

Unrelatedly I just read this Kevin Garnet piece when he knew he could make the jump to the NBA after dominating Scottie in a pickup game as a high schooler when Pip was in his prime: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/kevin-garnett-recalls-the-pickup-game-with-scottie-pippen-that-proved-he-could-jump-to-the-nba/amp/

Man between prime Pip getting blasted by a 14 year old Dirk Nowinski and now this KG story, the world must have felt like it was filled with frightening monster children.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#23 » by WookieOnRitalin » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:59 pm

TheStig wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
TheStig wrote:Pippen was so flakey and mentally weak at times. Super talented but I don't think he would have ever been as good without MJ pushing his butt everyday. MJ made Pip IMHO. He would have been just a guy or above average starter.


Jordan didn't need to be a bully to make his teammates better. They probably played worse because he was such a prima donna. How many guys have been mentally broken or later expressed how much they hated playing with Jordan. The list is too long. Jordan did that crap to fuel himself more than anything. Hell, what's more interesting than anything we saw in that documentary are probably the clips that didn't get released of Jordan's even more out of control behavior.

Also, Pip was a beast. During the 1993-1994 season--the year that MJ was out swinging bats and catching fly balls-- Pippen basically put up Lebronish numbers... except with a ton more defense:
PPG 22.0
RPG 8.7
APG 5.6
SPG 2.9
PER 23.2

The PPG is misleading. This was in a bygone era where guys didn't typically average 20. Pip was 8th in scoring that year, and second in steals. The claim that Pippen would have been just a guy without Jordan is ridiculous. I don't think anyone ever played his level of defense at the small forward position, while being such a complete player on the offensive end. There were SEVERAL seasons in which Pip averaged 2.4+ steals and 1+ block at the same time to go with strong scoring, rebounding and assist numbers. He was an absolute freak in this regard. Claims that Pippen was mentally weak are overblown. On a team where Pip was more featured, they would've paid him what he was worth. He wouldn't have done that sitting out of the game horse crap if they had. He could really see the floor, too. Pip wasn't quite the intuitive passer that Lebron is, but if he'd been on a half decent roster that allowed him to be THE featured guy, I believe he would have put up gaudy PG assist numbers. Without Mike, Scottie's supporting cast was basically at the level of today's Bulls team... or worse. The fact that he pulled them into the playoffs at all is a miracle.

Lebron has only one year that he ever averaged less than 22 ppg. His rookie year. After that, never averaged under 25ppg. Same thing with the per. And he's lead the league in per multiple years. Bron was also immensely more efficient. He's also the 2nd best player of all time. His abilities, impact, leadership and pretty much everything outside of free throw shooting and defense is vastly better than Pippen. Let's not get carried away.

It's funny you basically describe MJ as the antichrist. One would imagine these hateful and bullying and extreme tactics wouldn't have translated to championships, great chemistry and titles. If Pip was so turned off, he was a unrestricted FA and could have signed elsewhere. He didn't, he hung out on the tv and even asked for MJ to come back? WHy, he respected what he did and was sitting at .500 record as the leader.


Considering league averages in scoring, 22 ppg in a tougher defended era of basketball is more impressive than 25 ppg in a soft era of basketball.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a better overall player than Pippen, but let's put it this way. I would have enjoyed watching Lebron play in the same era as Pip/Jordan and especially would have enjoyed watching the boys absolutely shut him down.

Different rules. Different games.

Pippen is a legend and well deserved at that. Scottie's biggest black eye in his career was sitting out in the New York series. Outside of that, Scottie is well regarded by everyone. A competitor. One of the most dynamic players the game ever saw.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#24 » by Stratmaster » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:19 pm

dougthonus wrote:
TheStig wrote:Or MJ molded and trained him in a boot camp environment to prepare him for the tough situations. And then took the toughest moments upon himself.


Not that it really matters, but if Pippen responded to that type of environment, then he wasn't mentally weak.

Oh please, they had one good regular season where they didn't even make it out of the second round.


Ignoring the end results in the playoffs which were decided by one of the worst officiating calls in the history of basketball, Pippen's numbers that year were easily the best of his career. He set career highs in virtually everything from basic to advanced statistics. The next year where Jordan was there half the year was similar. The team result isn't necessarily relevant, you would expect a team to have considerable drop off in team result by subtracting the greatest player to ever play basketball from the team.

And that's taking a Pip that had already been in the MJ training process through 5-6 years and 3 titles. I was speaking about him staying in Seattle from day 1. I've just seen Pip choke away or get injured right at the key moment too many times.


I agree that Pippen wasn't a superstar and also don't think he was particularly mentally strong. I only disagree that Jordan made him. Mentally weak people don't get better under pressure, take it from a mentally weak person who has been coached by guys who applied extreme pressure and guys who supplied nurturing and patience. If you're mentally weak and fragile, you absolutely need the second of those things.

Maybe to make it more clear, I think Pippen's legacy is enhanced by Jordan. I agree with your assertion that I don't think he would have come through in the clutch in the biggest moments of the biggest games and with Jordan that burden wasn't placed upon him. I don't think his individual skills or play or stats were enhanced by being next to Jordan and may have been better as a lead player on a team through his prime. He would have been remembered as a worse player even with better stats though, because those other holes in his game would have been more prominent.

If you're driving at that second thing, then I agree. Pippen will be remembered as a better player due to Jordan instead of as a player that could never get it done when it mattered. In terms of his actual growth as a player, I think it would have been more without Jordan. That said, all hypothetical what if scenarios either way.
Holes in Pippen's game?

First time I have ever heard anyone, anywhere use that phrase.

I guess he could have been a better 3 point shooter, but it was an era where the best 3 point shooters were role players.

What holes are you referring to? He ran point for the best teams of all time. He was likely the best defensive wing if all time. He rebounded. He could attack the rim, score in the post...

What holes would have been exposed?

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#25 » by Stratmaster » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:35 pm

Scottie Pippen 23rd most clutch playoff player since 1997 (minimum 100 minutes). And that was at the end of his career, post-Bulls.

(per Bleacher Report based on clutch ratings. For some reason I can't get the link to post)

Pippen will forever be tarnished by his tantrum and sitting out the Kukoc play. It was a horrible decision at a horrible time.

But these ideas that he want a superstar, or that he wasn't clutch, or that he was nothing without Jordan, or that he was mentally weak.... that's all pure fantasy. When Jordan retired the first time Pippen was the best all around player in the league, period, end of sentence.


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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#26 » by TheStig » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:08 pm

WookieOnRitalin wrote:
TheStig wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
Jordan didn't need to be a bully to make his teammates better. They probably played worse because he was such a prima donna. How many guys have been mentally broken or later expressed how much they hated playing with Jordan. The list is too long. Jordan did that crap to fuel himself more than anything. Hell, what's more interesting than anything we saw in that documentary are probably the clips that didn't get released of Jordan's even more out of control behavior.

Also, Pip was a beast. During the 1993-1994 season--the year that MJ was out swinging bats and catching fly balls-- Pippen basically put up Lebronish numbers... except with a ton more defense:
PPG 22.0
RPG 8.7
APG 5.6
SPG 2.9
PER 23.2

The PPG is misleading. This was in a bygone era where guys didn't typically average 20. Pip was 8th in scoring that year, and second in steals. The claim that Pippen would have been just a guy without Jordan is ridiculous. I don't think anyone ever played his level of defense at the small forward position, while being such a complete player on the offensive end. There were SEVERAL seasons in which Pip averaged 2.4+ steals and 1+ block at the same time to go with strong scoring, rebounding and assist numbers. He was an absolute freak in this regard. Claims that Pippen was mentally weak are overblown. On a team where Pip was more featured, they would've paid him what he was worth. He wouldn't have done that sitting out of the game horse crap if they had. He could really see the floor, too. Pip wasn't quite the intuitive passer that Lebron is, but if he'd been on a half decent roster that allowed him to be THE featured guy, I believe he would have put up gaudy PG assist numbers. Without Mike, Scottie's supporting cast was basically at the level of today's Bulls team... or worse. The fact that he pulled them into the playoffs at all is a miracle.

Lebron has only one year that he ever averaged less than 22 ppg. His rookie year. After that, never averaged under 25ppg. Same thing with the per. And he's lead the league in per multiple years. Bron was also immensely more efficient. He's also the 2nd best player of all time. His abilities, impact, leadership and pretty much everything outside of free throw shooting and defense is vastly better than Pippen. Let's not get carried away.

It's funny you basically describe MJ as the antichrist. One would imagine these hateful and bullying and extreme tactics wouldn't have translated to championships, great chemistry and titles. If Pip was so turned off, he was a unrestricted FA and could have signed elsewhere. He didn't, he hung out on the tv and even asked for MJ to come back? WHy, he respected what he did and was sitting at .500 record as the leader.


Considering league averages in scoring, 22 ppg in a tougher defended era of basketball is more impressive than 25 ppg in a soft era of basketball.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a better overall player than Pippen, but let's put it this way. I would have enjoyed watching Lebron play in the same era as Pip/Jordan and especially would have enjoyed watching the boys absolutely shut him down.

Different rules. Different games.

Pippen is a legend and well deserved at that. Scottie's biggest black eye in his career was sitting out in the New York series. Outside of that, Scottie is well regarded by everyone. A competitor. One of the most dynamic players the game ever saw.

Not really. In 93-94, league team avg was 101.5ppg. Bron's second year when he first scored 25ppg that avg was 97.2 in 04-05. ANd he was actually putting up 27ppg. Bron's first years in the league were still low scoring years. The baby Bulls regularly held teams under 100. The teams winning the titles were the Pistons and Spurs with really good defense.

I also think Bron would have adjusted and probably is the only superstar who would have been as good or better. A lot of his game was bullying drives. Sure he would have gotten fouled hard a lot but he's been the poster boy of longevity and health. I think he remains a really great player and still #2 overall. Maybe he doesn't age as well with the punishment but I have no reason to believe he wouldn't.

I think Pippen is a really really good player. I do think MJ elevated him. And I think even with that he's not an all time great. I'll be honest, if Pip stayed in Seattle on draft night, I think he ends up similar to Stacy Augmon. He needed that push and grind he got from MJ. He shrunk in the biggest moments and was lucky to play with the clutchest player ever.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#27 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:44 pm

Stratmaster wrote:Holes in Pippen's game?

First time I have ever heard anyone, anywhere use that phrase.

I guess he could have been a better 3 point shooter, but it was an era where the best 3 point shooters were role players.

What holes are you referring to? He ran point for the best teams of all time. He was likely the best defensive wing if all time. He rebounded. He could attack the rim, score in the post...

What holes would have been exposed?

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Inability to consistently create efficient offense for himself as a #1 option or come through in the clutch. I don't think Pippen could have been a #1 option on a great team, but he is remembered talentwise on the same level of players who could have done that.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#28 » by kodo » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:28 pm

Pip was great in '94, but he wasn't the best.

Pippen 22 ppg 8.7 rpg 5.6 apg 2.9 spg 0.8 bpg 51.5% eFG (I'll use eFG since TS% wasn't a thing back then)
Olajuwon 27 ppg 11.9 rpg 3.6 apg 1.6 spg 3.7 bpg 53.0% eFG
Shaquille 29 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.4 apg 0.9 spg 2.9 bpg 59.9% eFG
Admiral 30 ppg 10.7 rpg 4.8 apg 1.7 spg 3.3 bpg 51.0% eFG

Mailman also had better #s than Scottie but not a Malone fan myself.

Kinda like Robinson, Scottie's offensive limits were really shown in the playoffs. Post season his scoring cratered to 46% eFG while Horace & BJ were scoring at 55% eFG. I was often very frustrated with Scottie's post game, and thought our best post player from a skill standpoint was actually Kukoc (and Toni wasn't nearly as good as those names above), which is to say Scottie wasn't great.

I don't think Scottie makes the top 50 or the original Dream Team without Michael. We were never going to win another title with Scottie as our 1st option.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#29 » by dribble1614 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:58 pm

maybe, but i don't care. all these legendary dynasties have internal power/relationship struggles including the bulls, patriots, lakers, etc. don't care about them as people at all. i was alive to witness the greatest duo and dynasty that ever was led by jordan/pippen and saw two 3-peats, a feat that will likely never be accomplished in any sport ever again at least in our lifetimes. glad to have witnessed it and eternally grateful to the legends that are jordan and pippen for the dynasty. especially seeing that the post jordan/pippen bulls will likely be lucky to ever sniff a single finals appearance, never mind win 6 of them.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#30 » by Stratmaster » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:01 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Holes in Pippen's game?

First time I have ever heard anyone, anywhere use that phrase.

I guess he could have been a better 3 point shooter, but it was an era where the best 3 point shooters were role players.

What holes are you referring to? He ran point for the best teams of all time. He was likely the best defensive wing if all time. He rebounded. He could attack the rim, score in the post...

What holes would have been exposed?

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Inability to consistently create efficient offense for himself as a #1 option or come through in the clutch. I don't think Pippen could have been a #1 option on a great team, but he is remembered talentwise on the same level of players who could have done that.
Where did you hear or see these things? Inability to create consistent offense? What do you mean by that?

He was the number 1 option on a contending team, so that is already proven. Besides, is that your criteria for a player who didn't have holes in their game? There are and were all kinds of number one options who had big holes in their game.

Not a superstar? He rebounded like a power forward. He ran the offense like a PG. Best wing defender ever. Consensus top 50 player of all time.

I am beginning to see where you get the Lavine and Vuc takes from. I guess if you aren't a generational player you aren't a superstar?

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#31 » by Stratmaster » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:17 pm

kodo wrote:Pip was great in '94, but he wasn't the best.

Pippen 22 ppg 8.7 rpg 5.6 apg 2.9 spg 0.8 bpg 51.5% eFG (I'll use eFG since TS% wasn't a thing back then)
Olajuwon 27 ppg 11.9 rpg 3.6 apg 1.6 spg 3.7 bpg 53.0% eFG
Shaquille 29 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.4 apg 0.9 spg 2.9 bpg 59.9% eFG
Admiral 30 ppg 10.7 rpg 4.8 apg 1.7 spg 3.3 bpg 51.0% eFG

Mailman also had better #s than Scottie but not a Malone fan myself.

Kinda like Robinson, Scottie's offensive limits were really shown in the playoffs. Post season his scoring cratered to 46% eFG while Horace & BJ were scoring at 55% eFG. I was often very frustrated with Scottie's post game, and thought our best post player from a skill standpoint was actually Kukoc (and Toni wasn't nearly as good as those names above), which is to say Scottie wasn't great.

I don't think Scottie makes the top 50 or the original Dream Team without Michael. We were never going to win another title with Scottie as our 1st option.
Did Hakeem, Shaq or Robinson run the offense? Did they average steals on 4% of their defensive possessions?

Robinson vs. Pippen would be a discussion. The others not so much.

Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting. His usage went up 5 points while maintaining the same efficiency. He was +8 per 100 possessions while Michael was "retired".

There isn't a wing player on your list. It was a different era and the golden age of big men.

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#32 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:30 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Holes in Pippen's game?

First time I have ever heard anyone, anywhere use that phrase.

I guess he could have been a better 3 point shooter, but it was an era where the best 3 point shooters were role players.

What holes are you referring to? He ran point for the best teams of all time. He was likely the best defensive wing if all time. He rebounded. He could attack the rim, score in the post...

What holes would have been exposed?

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Inability to consistently create efficient offense for himself as a #1 option or come through in the clutch. I don't think Pippen could have been a #1 option on a great team, but he is remembered talentwise on the same level of players who could have done that.
Where did you hear or see these things? Inability to create consistent offense? What do you mean by that?

He was the number 1 option on a contending team, so that is already proven. Besides, is that your criteria for a player who didn't have holes in their game? There are and were all kinds of number one options who had big holes in their game.

Not a superstar? He rebounded like a power forward. He ran the offense like a PG. Best wing defender ever. Consensus top 50 player of all time.

I am beginning to see where you get the Lavine and Vuc takes from. I guess if you aren't a generational player you aren't a superstar?

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Maybe I'm overgeneralizing, but it seems as if an overwhelming majority of posters here don't respect or appreciate any part of basketball outside of efficient offense.

In my damn near 6 decades on this planet, I'm not sure I've ever seen a player who could defend most positions AND rebound AND be a playmaker at the level Scottie did all 3 things. I'd say LeBron does - and just like Pip, he couldn't win a title without an all-time great scorer next to him. I think it's safe to say that without Wade and Kyrie and AD, LeBron would have zero rings right now.

Here's a little tidbit from UPI about Game 2 of the 1991 Finals - the win that started the dynasty, because we had lost Game 1 of that series at home.

Pippen's defense shadows Magic, Lakers

INGLEWOOD, Calif. -- Contrary to some reports, when Magic Johnson removed his jersey after Game 2 of the NBA Finals, he did not find Scottie Pippen underneath.

Pippen, though, did blanket Johnson during the Chicago Bulls' 107-86 rout of the Lakers Wednesday night. And he'd like to remain up close and personal with the Los Angeles star when the best-of-seven series, tied at one game apiece, resumes Friday night at the Forum.

Early in Game 2, Chicago Coach Phil Jackson took Michael Jordan off Johnson and replaced him with Pippen. The long-armed 6-foot-7 forward hounded the Lakers' playmaker from baseline to baseline, and Johnson finished with just 14 points on 4 of 13 shooting.

'I wanted to guard Magic,' Pippen said. 'I knew it might take something out of my offense, but I had to try. I got out there and felt very good about guarding him.'

Johnson, forced to work each time he brought the ball upcourt, played 43 minutes and looked weary. In his last eight games, he has played fewer than 43 minutes just once.

'When somebody's aggressive like that, guarding you, you know you're going to get tired,' Johnson said.

Added Los Angeles assistant Randy Pfund: 'That's where (the rout) started. Scottie picked up the pace and that engerized them. He picked up the whole team.'
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#33 » by HomoSapien » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:38 pm

50 greatest player, 2 Time Olympian, Member of the Dream Team, Member of the first 70-win club, 6 Time NBA champion, 8 time All-NBA, Defensive Team 7-time All-Star, 7-time All-NBA Team... If that's not a superstar, the criteria should be re-evaluated.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#34 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:48 pm

Stratmaster wrote:Where did you hear or see these things? Inability to create consistent offense? What do you mean by that?


You don't hear about it, because he never had to do it.

He was the number 1 option on a contending team, so that is already proven.


When?

Besides, is that your criteria for a player who didn't have holes in their game? There are and were all kinds of number one options who had big holes in their game.


Sure, never said they didn't. If you asked a normal person who was better, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, or Scottie Pippen, as an example, a lot of people might take Pippen. I'd say he was a worse player than both those other guys, but his legacy is enhanced by winning six titles as a #2 instead of failing for 20 years as a #1.

Not a superstar? He rebounded like a power forward. He ran the offense like a PG. Best wing defender ever. Consensus top 50 player of all time.


Career 18 PER player, peaked in low 20s, generally scored at league average efficiency or below. So no, I don't think he was a superstar. He was certainly a great talent though.

I am beginning to see where you get the Lavine and Vuc takes from. I guess if you aren't a generational player you aren't a superstar?


I think LaVine has superstar potential, but he clearly isn't there yet. Vuc doesn't have superstar potential and has never been there. I can't recall anyone thinking either of these guys are superstars. What's a superstar to you? A guy who's in the 15-25 range? That's not a superstar, that's a fringe all-star.

Superstar to me is reserved to be guys that can raise a team to being a contending team by their presence as the #1 option with a decent cast around them.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#35 » by Stratmaster » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:37 pm

I didn't say Vuc or Lavine were superstars but I can see where you might have read it that way.

"He never had to do it". So basically no one playing next to MJ gets the opportunity?

"When"? The season Michael was retired.

Your standards just seem way out there. Everything you listed is about scoring. It appears you believe only #1 scorers can be superstars. Fair enough, but I disagree. I would post all of his accomplishments but another poster just did it.

No one has ever questioned Pippen's ability to impact games at a superstar level.

If Scottie Pippen wasnt a superstar in your eyes you are at odds with 99% of the basketball world.

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#36 » by Stratmaster » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:23 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Inability to consistently create efficient offense for himself as a #1 option or come through in the clutch. I don't think Pippen could have been a #1 option on a great team, but he is remembered talentwise on the same level of players who could have done that.
Where did you hear or see these things? Inability to create consistent offense? What do you mean by that?

He was the number 1 option on a contending team, so that is already proven. Besides, is that your criteria for a player who didn't have holes in their game? There are and were all kinds of number one options who had big holes in their game.

Not a superstar? He rebounded like a power forward. He ran the offense like a PG. Best wing defender ever. Consensus top 50 player of all time.

I am beginning to see where you get the Lavine and Vuc takes from. I guess if you aren't a generational player you aren't a superstar?

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Maybe I'm overgeneralizing, but it seems as if an overwhelming majority of posters here don't respect or appreciate any part of basketball outside of efficient offense.

In my damn near 6 decades on this planet, I'm not sure I've ever seen a player who could defend most positions AND rebound AND be a playmaker at the level Scottie did all 3 things. I'd say LeBron does - and just like Pip, he couldn't win a title without an all-time great scorer next to him. I think it's safe to say that without Wade and Kyrie and AD, LeBron would have zero rings right now.

Here's a little tidbit from UPI about Game 2 of the 1991 Finals - the win that started the dynasty, because we had lost Game 1 of that series at home.

Pippen's defense shadows Magic, Lakers

INGLEWOOD, Calif. -- Contrary to some reports, when Magic Johnson removed his jersey after Game 2 of the NBA Finals, he did not find Scottie Pippen underneath.

Pippen, though, did blanket Johnson during the Chicago Bulls' 107-86 rout of the Lakers Wednesday night. And he'd like to remain up close and personal with the Los Angeles star when the best-of-seven series, tied at one game apiece, resumes Friday night at the Forum.

Early in Game 2, Chicago Coach Phil Jackson took Michael Jordan off Johnson and replaced him with Pippen. The long-armed 6-foot-7 forward hounded the Lakers' playmaker from baseline to baseline, and Johnson finished with just 14 points on 4 of 13 shooting.

'I wanted to guard Magic,' Pippen said. 'I knew it might take something out of my offense, but I had to try. I got out there and felt very good about guarding him.'

Johnson, forced to work each time he brought the ball upcourt, played 43 minutes and looked weary. In his last eight games, he has played fewer than 43 minutes just once.

'When somebody's aggressive like that, guarding you, you know you're going to get tired,' Johnson said.

Added Los Angeles assistant Randy Pfund: 'That's where (the rout) started. Scottie picked up the pace and that engerized them. He picked up the whole team.'
Agreed. I get the bad rap for sitting out the Kukoc play but the idea that he wasn't a legendary, superstar player is just mind-boggling.

And on a Bulls board nonetheless. I am assuming these people actually watched most of the games... or maybe they were too young, IDK?

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#37 » by MJPipRose » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:34 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Well, I'm definitely going to buy a copy. Am I the only one who felt like Pippen didn't even come across that badly in The Last Dance? I feel like he was a little under mentioned at times, but if anything I walked away feeling even more sorry about how he was treated by management.


I agree. Why do people always make Pippen an easy target? This guy was a gifted player, long arms, defensive instincts, Athleticism, Point guard skills, ball handling all while being 6'7 and could shoot the 3 with consistency. He's one of the 50 greatest players for a reason. Who cares if he was mad about being underpaid? He had every right to be. Who cares if he made a mistake during that Kukoc sit out? Why does he have to justify to us fans why he did that every time? He admitted on several occasions that he didn't have the clutch gene. Fans need to leave the guy alone I don't have a problem with what he said on the last dance. He felt disrespected and wanted to be the man in that moment and Phil corrected him. The rest is history and they won this game. He redeemed himself so many times and championships later.

And anyone who says Pippen wasn't a Superstar is crazy. If he played in today's era he'd average 25 and 10 easily.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#38 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:41 pm

Stratmaster wrote:"He never had to do it". So basically no one playing next to MJ gets the opportunity?


Probably true.

"When"? The season Michael was retired.


The Bulls lost in the 2nd round (awful call at the end) and were tied for the sixth best record in the league. I don't know if I would call that team a true contender.

Your standards just seem way out there. Everything you listed is about scoring. It appears you believe only #1 scorers can be superstars. Fair enough, but I disagree. I would post all of his accomplishments but another poster just did it.


I probably do think only #1 scorers can be superstars, but I think it takes more than being a #1 scorer to be a superstar, but it is one of the minimum requirements. Rudy Gobert is not a superstar to me, as an example, neither was Ben Wallace in his prime. They are great all-star caliber players, but I wouldn't view them as superstars. Bradley Beal is a #1 scorer, so is Zach LaVine, and I wouldn't consider them superstars either. Russell Westbrook is the ultimate stat gatherer, and I wouldn't consider him a superstar.

Because superstar is subjective, to me, a superstar is a guy who can be on your team, and his presence alone with an average caliber cast turns your team into a contender. Maybe my view of superstar is of a higher caliber than yours. I wouldn't view most HOF NBA players as superstars. Your definition may be much looser than that, there is clearly no one objective definition of it.

If Scottie Pippen wasnt a superstar in your eyes you are at odds with 99% of the basketball world.


Without arguing semantics over what the word superstar means, I think many people feel Pippen couldn't / wouldn't have led a team to a title as a #1 option and best player on a team.
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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#39 » by Stratmaster » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:58 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:"He never had to do it". So basically no one playing next to MJ gets the opportunity?


Probably true.

"When"? The season Michael was retired.


The Bulls lost in the 2nd round (awful call at the end) and were tied for the sixth best record in the league. I don't know if I would call that team a true contender.

Your standards just seem way out there. Everything you listed is about scoring. It appears you believe only #1 scorers can be superstars. Fair enough, but I disagree. I would post all of his accomplishments but another poster just did it.


I probably do think only #1 scorers can be superstars, but I think it takes more than being a #1 scorer to be a superstar, but it is one of the minimum requirements. Rudy Gobert is not a superstar to me, as an example, neither was Ben Wallace in his prime. They are great all-star caliber players, but I wouldn't view them as superstars. Bradley Beal is a #1 scorer, so is Zach LaVine, and I wouldn't consider them superstars either. Russell Westbrook is the ultimate stat gatherer, and I wouldn't consider him a superstar.

Because superstar is subjective, to me, a superstar is a guy who can be on your team, and his presence alone with an average caliber cast turns your team into a contender. Maybe my view of superstar is of a higher caliber than yours. I wouldn't view most HOF NBA players as superstars. Your definition may be much looser than that, there is clearly no one objective definition of it.

If Scottie Pippen wasnt a superstar in your eyes you are at odds with 99% of the basketball world.


Without arguing semantics over what the word superstar means, I think many people feel Pippen couldn't / wouldn't have led a team to a title as a #1 option and best player on a team.
Do you think there have been more than 50 superstars in the NBA?

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Re: Pippen Writing Memoir, Tells His Side of Story 

Post#40 » by dougthonus » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:19 am

Stratmaster wrote:Do you think there have been more than 50 superstars in the NBA?


The guys I would qualify as superstar in my NBA watching lifetime (roughly in time order)
Kareem, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Nowitski, Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Durant, Steph, and Kawhi.

Off the top of my head, guys I'd be on the fence about: Malone, Ewing, and Garnett. Maybe forgot someone obvious since I'm just going off the top of my head. More modern guys I could possibly get behind, but am less sure of or think they just need to prove it over a longer time: Harden (waffle on him, but maybe), Giannis (feels like a regular season player, but could get there), Doncic (seems likely with more time), Embiid (need to see more in the playoffs and more time but possibly), Davis (think he's a tier below), Lillard (think he's a tier below).
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