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Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months

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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#41 » by ChiefILL53 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:32 am

Damn I was kinda hoping he got traded cuz I figured he was one of our best chips to use lol.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#42 » by dukeespn » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:54 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:In the last 10 years, do you know how many players other than Coby have gone for 15/4/4 in their first or second season? Hint: it's 10

Jokic
Simmons (1st and 2nd season)
Luka (1st and 2nd season)
Trae
Mitchell
Oladipo
Wall
Morant
LaMelo
Coby
Michael Carter-Williams

And Coby is the 3rd-youngest player to do it in the last 10 years, behind only Luka and LaMelo.



Another meaingless and unnatural stats filter put by a delusional fan.

Coby's scoring & overall efficinecy is way below than those players' you mentioned except MCW.

His PER is only 12.0 and worse than MCW's PER in MCW's first two seasons. Plus Coby's scoring efficiency (54.0% TS) is way below than league average (57.2% TS). Yikes.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#43 » by sco » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:15 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:In the last 10 years, do you know how many players other than Coby have gone for 15/4/4 in their first or second season? Hint: it's 10

Jokic
Simmons (1st and 2nd season)
Luka (1st and 2nd season)
Trae
Mitchell
Oladipo
Wall
Morant
LaMelo
Coby
Michael Carter-Williams

And Coby is the 3rd-youngest player to do it in the last 10 years, behind only Luka and LaMelo.

OK, but IDK what the universe of guys who were essentially their teams' starting PG in their 1st or 2nd season. Maybe add 3 more guys to that list? I view this as more of a situational thing than anything to suggest that Coby is anything special. I see young guys on bad teams who just shot. 15 points on 41% shooting is not great. 4 assists with 2.3 TO's is not great. I will grant that he is a good rebounder. I will also note that he is a bad defender (but to be fair, improved from a horrible one). Regardless, Coby has shown that he is a guy who occasionally gets hot from 3, but is only an average shooter, a bad finisher at the rim.

That all said, I wish him a speedy recovery so that he can prove me wrong next season!
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#44 » by dougthonus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:09 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:This will absolutely change our plans. We will acquire a starting caliber PG. If not season is over before it starts. White will probably be a worse player than last season and definitely won’t improve. Micic is whatever. If he was that good he would not still be in Europe at 27 years old.


In a season where Zach and Vuc play together the whole time and are generally healthy (obviously we don't know if health will happen), the impact of a PG will be dramatically less than it was this past year. Vuc / Zach will have the ball the majority of the time and do most of the play making.

I think you can get away with a combo guard and not have a pure PG if necessary. The thought that we desperately need a PG is more anchored to the pre-Vuc era when Wendell Carter was playing the hub and was completely overwhelmed in that position. This isn't to say getting a starting caliber PG wouldn't help, of course it would, but that player isn't going to have the ball in his hands nearly as much or control the offense nearly as much as other teams PG will.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#45 » by TheFinishSniper » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:32 pm

There goes trade value to trade him for something useful this offseason. Now we will watch another year of Coby White learning to play sport called basketball. And ofcourse he will be given full immunity on this board for bad games due rehab and missing offseason. Just like with Lauri.

This franchise never learns... Cut them all. We need go fully for PG. There is no question anymore. It's do it or fire yourself due incompentence. Overpay it overvalue it whatever. There should not be any excuses.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#46 » by TheFinishSniper » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:36 pm

bad knees wrote:"He will be re-evaluated in four months." Four months?! Re-evaluated?? That means he could be out for even longer than that. Season starts on October 19. Now that's a setback.

I'm going back to watching Justin Fields videos.

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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#47 » by CoreyVillains » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:59 pm

That list of players averaging 15-4-4 can't be the full list because its missing Tyreke Evans who did it in 10-11.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#48 » by MrSparkle » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:59 pm

Well this sucks- this injury puts him on the trade plate IMO. He’s gonna be fine but he was at a critical development point for the Bulls. 4-6mo off with a limited off-season means his 3rd year is probably going to be a plateau or regression, which isn’t good considering his 2nd year was up-and-down. I just don’t think this org wants to balance development so slowly on a medium-ceiling prospect, and use year 4 as a final evaluation period. I’ve long hated y4 evaluations on rookie contracts - you should know by that point whether he’s a keeper or not, and if injuries are the excuse for poor development (Valentine, Lauri, Wendell, Hutchison), it’s just a high-risk/low-reward cycle. Excellent, young players still stand out despite injuries (MPJ, Embiid, etc.). Coby is the type I feel just needed more PT and experience, and this is gonna be a step-back afaic.

He could be the Lonzo throw-in. Sato and Coby. They do need off-ball spacers and guards... These two would fit the Zion squad imo.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#49 » by Chi town » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:13 pm

Lowry or Ball. Not into Micic. Sato may stay now too and be traded at the deadline.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#51 » by Tetlak » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:12 pm

dukeespn wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:In the last 10 years, do you know how many players other than Coby have gone for 15/4/4 in their first or second season? Hint: it's 10

Jokic
Simmons (1st and 2nd season)
Luka (1st and 2nd season)
Trae
Mitchell
Oladipo
Wall
Morant
LaMelo
Coby
Michael Carter-Williams

And Coby is the 3rd-youngest player to do it in the last 10 years, behind only Luka and LaMelo.



Another meaingless and unnatural stats filter put by a delusional fan.

Coby's scoring & overall efficinecy is way below than those players' you mentioned except MCW.

His PER is only 12.0 and worse than MCW's PER in MCW's first two seasons. Plus Coby's scoring efficiency (54.0% TS) is way below than league average (57.2% TS). Yikes.


Slightly off topic, but good god...I remember when 54 was average just a few years ago. The NBA is changing crazy fast.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#52 » by CobyWhite0 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:11 pm

sco wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:In the last 10 years, do you know how many players other than Coby have gone for 15/4/4 in their first or second season? Hint: it's 10

Jokic
Simmons (1st and 2nd season)
Luka (1st and 2nd season)
Trae
Mitchell
Oladipo
Wall
Morant
LaMelo
Coby
Michael Carter-Williams

And Coby is the 3rd-youngest player to do it in the last 10 years, behind only Luka and LaMelo.

OK, but IDK what the universe of guys who were essentially their teams' starting PG in their 1st or 2nd season. Maybe add 3 more guys to that list? I view this as more of a situational thing than anything to suggest that Coby is anything special. I see young guys on bad teams who just shot. 15 points on 41% shooting is not great. 4 assists with 2.3 TO's is not great. I will grant that he is a good rebounder. I will also note that he is a bad defender (but to be fair, improved from a horrible one). Regardless, Coby has shown that he is a guy who occasionally gets hot from 3, but is only an average shooter, a bad finisher at the rim.

That all said, I wish him a speedy recovery so that he can prove me wrong next season!


4 assists with 2.3 TO? Coby had 4.8 ast with 2.3 TO - which may not be a great Ast/TO ratio, but it puts him 6th on this list:

Simmons 2.41
Morant 2.31
Simmons 2.20
LaMelo 2.18
Jokic 2.13
Coby 2.09
Luka 2.05
Wall 2.05
Trae 1.94
MCW 1.80
Luka 1.76
Mitchell 1.50
Oladipo 1.46

He was right in the middle (7th) in TS%
He was even better (6th) in eFG%
He had the 3rd best 3pt% (.359, Trae shot .361 and Mitchell shot .362)

His defense most certainly is bad compared to the others, he had the 3rd-worst DWS and DefRtg.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#53 » by sco » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:24 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
sco wrote:
CobyWhite0 wrote:In the last 10 years, do you know how many players other than Coby have gone for 15/4/4 in their first or second season? Hint: it's 10

Jokic
Simmons (1st and 2nd season)
Luka (1st and 2nd season)
Trae
Mitchell
Oladipo
Wall
Morant
LaMelo
Coby
Michael Carter-Williams

And Coby is the 3rd-youngest player to do it in the last 10 years, behind only Luka and LaMelo.

OK, but IDK what the universe of guys who were essentially their teams' starting PG in their 1st or 2nd season. Maybe add 3 more guys to that list? I view this as more of a situational thing than anything to suggest that Coby is anything special. I see young guys on bad teams who just shot. 15 points on 41% shooting is not great. 4 assists with 2.3 TO's is not great. I will grant that he is a good rebounder. I will also note that he is a bad defender (but to be fair, improved from a horrible one). Regardless, Coby has shown that he is a guy who occasionally gets hot from 3, but is only an average shooter, a bad finisher at the rim.

That all said, I wish him a speedy recovery so that he can prove me wrong next season!


4 assists with 2.3 TO? Coby had 4.8 ast with 2.3 TO - which may not be a great Ast/TO ratio, but it puts him 6th on this list:

Simmons 2.41
Morant 2.31
Simmons 2.20
LaMelo 2.18
Jokic 2.13
Coby 2.09
Luka 2.05
Wall 2.05
Trae 1.94
MCW 1.80
Luka 1.76
Mitchell 1.50
Oladipo 1.46

He was right in the middle (7th) in TS%
He was even better (6th) in eFG%
He had the 3rd best 3pt% (.359, Trae shot .361 and Mitchell shot .362)

His defense most certainly is bad compared to the others, he had the 3rd-worst DWS and DefRtg.

I can't believe I'm debating about Coby White with CobyWhite0, but it's Friday.

So CobyWhite0, do you see Coby White as:

A) A legitimate starting PG option for the Bulls next season
B) If not (A), a likely future top 15 starting NBA PG
C) A helpful bench contributor (ie 6th man)
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#54 » by madvillian » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:29 pm

Hits just keep coming. How the **** does a 21 year old tear their labrum training and playing offseason basketball? I tell ya what, that's either some of the worst luck imaginable or he was doing dumbass ****. Either way, just terrible. He's going to lose an entire offseason of strength training. He can do **** lower body stuff (no deadlifts, no squats, no olympic lifts at all) on machines and that is about absolutely it. Not to even mention he's not going to be picking up a basketball for 4 months.

This probably about seals the deal on him doing anything positive before his rookie deal is up. Just another wasted top 10 pick.
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I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#55 » by WindyCityBorn » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:46 pm

dougthonus wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:This will absolutely change our plans. We will acquire a starting caliber PG. If not season is over before it starts. White will probably be a worse player than last season and definitely won’t improve. Micic is whatever. If he was that good he would not still be in Europe at 27 years old.


In a season where Zach and Vuc play together the whole time and are generally healthy (obviously we don't know if health will happen), the impact of a PG will be dramatically less than it was this past year. Vuc / Zach will have the ball the majority of the time and do most of the play making.

I think you can get away with a combo guard and not have a pure PG if necessary. The thought that we desperately need a PG is more anchored to the pre-Vuc era when Wendell Carter was playing the hub and was completely overwhelmed in that position. This isn't to say getting a starting caliber PG wouldn't help, of course it would, but that player isn't going to have the ball in his hands nearly as much or control the offense nearly as much as other teams PG will.


I want the Ball out of Zach’s hands as our lead guard.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#56 » by dougthonus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:04 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:I want the Ball out of Zach’s hands as our lead guard.


Whether it is in his hands as lead guard or secondary guard, it's going to be in his hands a whole heck of a lot, and when it's not in his hands, its going to be in Vuc's hands a heck of a lot. It's not going to be in another players hands nearly as much as those two players unless you are able to get a star level PG that we clearly aren't going to get in any obvious well defined way (ie, cap room).
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#57 » by CobyWhite0 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:15 pm

sco wrote:I can't believe I'm debating about Coby White with CobyWhite0, but it's Friday.

So CobyWhite0, do you see Coby White as:

A) A legitimate starting PG option for the Bulls next season
B) If not (A), a likely future top 15 starting NBA PG
C) A helpful bench contributor (ie 6th man)


A) I think it's 100% certain that he's a legitimate option for next season - based on the fact that (according to B-R.com) he played 90% of his minutes at PG this season.

B) Maybe? It's impossible to say, without knowing what team he's on, and who his teammates are. Who knows if he's even going to be playing PG in the future?

C) Again, who knows? Again without knowing what team he's on and who his teammates are, it's impossible to say. If he's a starter, he obviously can't be a 6th man.

It seems like people love projecting how a guy's career is going to play out after only a year or two in the league, but I don't play that game. It seems pointless to me, because there are dozens of variables that are going to help determine that. I don't follow college hoops, and I don't follow the draft either.

And just for the record, CobyWhite0 is just a username. I don't care about Coby any more or any less than any other human wearing a Bulls uniform. IIRC correctly, when I registered my account, I tried ZachLavine8 and it was taken. I don't remember if I tried LauriMarkkanen24 or WendellCarter34 or PatrickWilliams9 etc, because it didn't matter one bit.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#58 » by sco » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:33 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
sco wrote:I can't believe I'm debating about Coby White with CobyWhite0, but it's Friday.

So CobyWhite0, do you see Coby White as:

A) A legitimate starting PG option for the Bulls next season
B) If not (A), a likely future top 15 starting NBA PG
C) A helpful bench contributor (ie 6th man)


A) I think it's 100% certain that he's a legitimate option for next season - based on the fact that (according to B-R.com) he played 90% of his minutes at PG this season.

B) Maybe? It's impossible to say, without knowing what team he's on, and who his teammates are. Who knows if he's even going to be playing PG in the future?

C) Again, who knows? Again without knowing what team he's on and who his teammates are, it's impossible to say. If he's a starter, he obviously can't be a 6th man.

It seems like people love projecting how a guy's career is going to play out after only a year or two in the league, but I don't play that game. It seems pointless to me, because there are dozens of variables that are going to help determine that. I don't follow college hoops, and I don't follow the draft either.

And just for the record, CobyWhite0 is just a username. I don't care about Coby any more or any less than any other human wearing a Bulls uniform. IIRC correctly, when I registered my account, I tried ZachLavine8 and it was taken. I don't remember if I tried LauriMarkkanen24 or WendellCarter34 or PatrickWilliams9 etc, because it didn't matter one bit.

All good on username!

On A) basing the legitimacy of him being our starting PG next season because he played mostly PG this season is a true, but silly comment. I actually was fine giving him the season to see what he could do as a PG, but the season's over and he flat out sucked at PG. And while he did improve on the many many silly TO's by the end of the season, he has tunnel-vision and showed zero ability to set-up his guys for better shots, and his defense against good PG's was awful.

On B) good PG's are good, even on mediocre and bad teams. I just don't the points I noted as his flaws are remotely fixable to the point that he'd be better than half the starting PG's in the league.

On C) it was the right answer, but I never expected you to say that (but I had hope). I feel pretty safe predicting the career of most players after their second year - at least to the point where I feel good or bad about them ever being a top 15 at their position during their career.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#59 » by CobyWhite0 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:36 pm

dougthonus wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:I want the Ball out of Zach’s hands as our lead guard.


Whether it is in his hands as lead guard or secondary guard, it's going to be in his hands a whole heck of a lot, and when it's not in his hands, its going to be in Vuc's hands a heck of a lot. It's not going to be in another players hands nearly as much as those two players unless you are able to get a star level PG that we clearly aren't going to get in any obvious well defined way (ie, cap room).


We had 4 players (Sato - Thad - Coby - Zach) who all averaged between 4.3 and 4.9 assists last season - and Vuc averaged 3.9 as a Bull. I don't expect that to change much this season, not with the read-and-react motion offense BD runs.

And AKME loves multi-positional players and shooting, so I don't think he'd be interested in a "pure PG" who can't play off the ball at times. And who can guard 2-3 positions effectively. A Rubio or Payton don't fit that profile. Lonzo Ball does, maybe a few other guys, but I don't see us landing a star level PG this summer.
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Re: Coby White gets shoulder surgery, re-evaluated in 4 months 

Post#60 » by League Circles » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:02 pm

This is really bad news even if only that it limits our summer trade options. And because free agency options are terrible I was really looking forward to a creative trade by AK.

We don't need a pure point guard to dominate the ball or anything like that but we do need a well-rounded player who can pass securely handle the ball defend and at least be inadequate shooter who can defend opposing point guards. I like Kobe as a player but he's not nearly well-rounded enough even before the injury to rely on and now he's just a big question mark Indefinitely.

AK should be spending 23 hours a day trying to trade Thaddeus Young for a well-rounded guard such as I describe.
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