Official: DeRozan! Player of the Week p69

[tunit213]

Man this dude is underrated! His footwork is unreal.

Watch on YouTube

[sco]

Man this dude is underrated! His footwork is unreal.

Watch on YouTube

I know folks don't like his age, but he's one of those guys (like CP3), whose game ages well because it's based on craftiness, not athleticism. It may be worth his salary just to give Pat a front row seat to watch how this guy operates in the paint.

[Michael Jackson]

Man this dude is underrated! His footwork is unreal.

Watch on YouTube

I know folks don't like his age, but he's one of those guys (like CP3), whose game ages well because it's based on craftiness, not athleticism. It may be worth his salary just to give Pat a front row seat to watch how this guy operates in the paint.

With the role he has to play on this team he will look good offensively for the term of his contract for sure imho. From a year ago we got a lot smarter on offense, from Ball, Vuc and Derozan. It’s a pretty good fit, not the “sexiest” of lineups but really solid and can compete. Watching that you can easily see how he can play PF on offense. Not only DDR but the whole starting squad has offensive skills that pat can learn from.

[pipfan]

I think it was a great signing. He should remain All Star level for the 3 years-plus he is an attractive trade chip for a bigger star. A team could still get a name player, plus something else-if a star asks out

[Betta Bulleavit]

I think it was a great signing. He should remain All Star level for the 3 years-plus he is an attractive trade chip for a bigger star. A team could still get a name player, plus something else-if a star asks out

I agree. But it amazes me how many so called experts and analysts are crapping all over this move. Yet, if the Clippers, Lakers, Heat or some of the “In” teams had signed him, these same guys would be labeling this as a Homerun move. I think I’ve just grown a bit tired of all the same old narratives an knob skinning over the same teams year in and year out.

Will it take some time for all these new pieces to jell? Of course it will. Do the individual metrics indicate that that there could be some defensive challenges? Absolutely. But as a collective, our starting 5 (at the very least) should match up well with anybody in the East not named the Bucks or the Nets. But because it wasn’t supposed to happen that fast, the media at large seems to find it easier to question the legitimacy of the moves rather than acknowledging that this team could really be dangerous.

[dougthonus]

I think it was a great signing. He should remain All Star level for the 3 years-plus he is an attractive trade chip for a bigger star. A team could still get a name player, plus something else-if a star asks out

I doubt with his age that he is an attractive trade chip for a star. A team trading away a star probably isn't going to remain in win now mode with a worse star.

[dougthonus]

Yet, if the Clippers, Lakers, Heat or some of the “In” teams had signed him, these same guys would be labeling this as a Homerun move.

A big part of the complaints around the move are that the Bulls are too far away and didn't leave themselves any wiggle room to improve from here. Effectively going all-in on a 40ish win team. That is a pretty big fundamental difference from teams that are viewed as legitimate title contenders going all-in.

I share those same concerns to a degree, but on the other hand, we were pretty bad for a long time without any real excitement or hope that things were going to turn around except just praying for lottery balls. We probably weren't significantly more likely to become great with that plan and would have been a lot less exciting for the next two years. The interesting question will be how to build out of this thing as Vuc/DeRozan age out of quality players in the next couple seasons.

If you really end up having something with Pat and/or Coby and Ball/Zach continue iterative improvements then its not nuts to think that core could be decent enough to remain a solid team if a couple smaller pieces can be added, but you are relying on getting near all-star performance out of at least one of Pat/Coby for that to happen.

[Grodoboldo]

Yet, if the Clippers, Lakers, Heat or some of the “In” teams had signed him, these same guys would be labeling this as a Homerun move.

The interesting question will be how to build out of this thing as Vuc/DeRozan age out of quality players in the next couple seasons.

If you really end up having something with Pat and/or Coby and Ball/Zach continue iterative improvements then its not nuts to think that core could be decent enough to remain a solid team if a couple smaller pieces can be added, but you are relying on getting near all-star performance out of at least one of Pat/Coby for that to happen.

Seeing how aggressive our new FO has been, chances are we haven't seen their last gamble on this core. They will probably try for another assimetric bet trying to retool somewhere down the line. One of those "if it works, great, were cooking with gas. If not, we have to rebuild with a few less assets to start from". The problem with betting is that math will eventually get to you.
But I do believe that, though the concerns have merit, they're way overblown. I still feel we're in the "rebuilding the franchise name" phase. We're not real contenders, but we'll be a good team. We blew our rebuild, so this is the best that could come out of that. Let's enjoy this cycle and hope that the next one will be better.

[dougthonus]

Seeing how aggressive our new FO has been, chances are we haven't seen their last gamble on this core. They will probably try for another assimetric bet trying to retool somewhere down the line. One of those "if it works, great, were cooking with gas. If not, we have to rebuild with a few less assets to start from". The problem with betting is that math will eventually get to you.
But I do believe that, though the concerns have merit, they're way overblown. I still feel we're in the "rebuilding the franchise name" phase. We're not real contenders, but we'll be a good team. We blew our rebuild, so this is the best that could come out of that. Let's enjoy this cycle and hope that the next one will be better.

Well, it's not going to be a few less assets, it's going to be a lot less assets. The thing with trading away your draft picks is more or less the #1 way to be relevant for a very long time is to land a superstar in the draft. The odds of it are low, say 10%, so you tend to get a lot of guys that don't work and people think it is irrelevant, but when you do get one that works it doesn't really matter how many times you missed.

There is also progressively less and less you can do to add more to the team. I'm not sure if we can even trade a future pick right now because of the protection on the 2025 pick. We don't have expiring deals to make S&Ts more reasonable, and the luxury tax is going to create obstacles in the future, even if we agree to pay it some, the apron will prevent us from doing some things we'd otherwise do and the taxpayer MLE is a lower caliber asset.

Either way though, the team has a chance to be really good without adding anything, and the alternatives of praying for a good draft pick for three years weren't great either. So I'm a fan of what happened in the big picture. I just don't have particularly high hopes for what the future looks like after these next two seasons.

[Grodoboldo]

Either way though, the team has a chance to be really good without adding anything, and the alternatives of praying for a good draft pick for three years weren't great either. So I'm a fan of what happened in the big picture. I just don't have particularly high hopes for what the future looks like after these next two seasons.

Well, after the next two seasons, we might be only one pick down, to the Spurs. We'll probably still have 3 years on Zach's new contract, and not a lot else as assets. Not a great place to rebuild, but not a tragedy as well. Again, I understand this is not the definition of greatness by any means, but I'll definitely take it over whatever the hell that was before AK.
I do want to see more movement within the organization. We should try to steal some more player development and draft guys from other teams.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Yet, if the Clippers, Lakers, Heat or some of the “In” teams had signed him, these same guys would be labeling this as a Homerun move.

A big part of the complaints around the move are that the Bulls are too far away and didn't leave themselves any wiggle room to improve from here. Effectively going all-in on a 40ish win team. That is a pretty big fundamental difference from teams that are viewed as legitimate title contenders going all-in.

I share those same concerns to a degree, but on the other hand, we were pretty bad for a long time without any real excitement or hope that things were going to turn around except just praying for lottery balls. We probably weren't significantly more likely to become great with that plan and would have been a lot less exciting for the next two years. The interesting question will be how to build out of this thing as Vuc/DeRozan age out of quality players in the next couple seasons.

If you really end up having something with Pat and/or Coby and Ball/Zach continue iterative improvements then its not nuts to think that core could be decent enough to remain a solid team if a couple smaller pieces can be added, but you are relying on getting near all-star performance out of at least one of Pat/Coby for that to happen.

I think that you bring up some very interesting (and valid) points. Specifically as it pertains to us being able to get better with all that we’ve given up.

But when I look at the NBA landscape, you saw pretty much every relevant upcoming free agent re-up on new deals over the past two off seasons. Giannis, Luka, Embid, Curry, Leonard, Durant and many more have locked in for at least the next 2-3 seasons and likely won’t be going anywhere. So for a team like the Bulls, the option of getting better via free agency was going to be extremely limited. Now, giving up multiple picks probably isn’t the answer to that problem. But when those picks are likely to be mid lottery picks for the foreseeable future, it becomes more of a hope and pray proposition by going the draft route. So putting together the strongest team that you possibly can and at least staying in the playoff conversation at least keeps us relevant in the eyes of players that might be looking to be on the move over the next few years.

Also, while DeMar and Nikola may be aging, we’ve got them on contracts where we can get the last of their best years before those contracts expire. So I don’t see their contracts as nearly the hindrance that some people do. And once they get to the final years, they’ll have value as expiring (large) contracts for teams looking to clear the deck and start over. So I believe the the long term strategy is there. But for now, the key was to get out of the gutter and I believe that we did that.

[waffle]

I think he WOULD be a valuable piece for a potential trade in a couple of years. Obviously not the only piece we'd give up but his contract at that point would have some value. Him and other pieces actually might net you a disgruntled star.

[SaNdMiRkS]

Man this dude is underrated! His footwork is unreal.

Watch on YouTube

I know folks don't like his age, but he's one of those guys (like CP3), whose game ages well because it's based on craftiness, not athleticism. It may be worth his salary just to give Pat a front row seat to watch how this guy operates in the paint.

1) DDR is only 32

2) DDR is one of the biggest freakshow outlier athletes that basketball has ever witnessed. It takes a lot of athleticism to implement footwork like that, especially with the constant pivoting

What people should be hyped about, is his increased abilities as a distributor. Popovich has helped him become much more than merely a freaky athletic scorer/poor man's Kobe Bryant. He had more total assists & APG last season than some premier starting PGs, like Ben Simmons, Conley, & Brogdon

[SaNdMiRkS]

Man this dude is underrated! His footwork is unreal.

Watch on YouTube

I know folks don't like his age, but he's one of those guys (like CP3), whose game ages well because it's based on craftiness, not athleticism. It may be worth his salary just to give Pat a front row seat to watch how this guy operates in the paint.

With the role he has to play on this team he will look good offensively for the term of his contract for sure imho. From a year ago we got a lot smarter on offense, from Ball, Vuc and Derozan. It’s a pretty good fit, not the “sexiest” of lineups but really solid and can compete. Watching that you can easily see how he can play PF on offense. Not only DDR but the whole starting squad has offensive skills that pat can learn from.

It's actually a bit *too* sexy of a lineup, and that's the beef that some people have with it; there isn't enough physicality/forcefulness, it's all pizazz & offensive savants

[SaNdMiRkS]

I think it was a great signing. He should remain All Star level for the 3 years-plus he is an attractive trade chip for a bigger star. A team could still get a name player, plus something else-if a star asks out

I agree. But it amazes me how many so called experts and analysts are crapping all over this move. Yet, if the Clippers, Lakers, Heat or some of the “In” teams had signed him, these same guys would be labeling this as a Homerun move. I think I’ve just grown a bit tired of all the same old narratives an knob skinning over the same teams year in and year out.

Will it take some time for all these new pieces to jell? Of course it will. Do the individual metrics indicate that that there could be some defensive challenges? Absolutely. But as a collective, our starting 5 (at the very least) should match up well with anybody in the East not named the Bucks or the Nets. But because it wasn’t supposed to happen that fast, the media at large seems to find it easier to question the legitimacy of the moves rather than acknowledging that this team could really be dangerous.

This comment is confusing. The Lakers & the heat got bounced in the first rd of the playoffs last season. Also, the LA Lakers got decimated for their signing of Russell Westbrook

I truly dont understand some of these comments. What is an "in" team...? ....A team that has actually had some winning seasons recently? The Bulls haven't been a winning basketball team in half a decade

[Ctownbulls]

I think he WOULD be a valuable piece for a potential trade in a couple of years. Obviously not the only piece we'd give up but his contract at that point would have some value. Him and other pieces actually might net you a disgruntled star.

I think most fail to understand this.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[SaNdMiRkS]

I think he WOULD be a valuable piece for a potential trade in a couple of years. Obviously not the only piece we'd give up but his contract at that point would have some value. Him and other pieces actually might net you a disgruntled star.

I think most fail to understand this.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

That was one of the primary points of acquiring him. He's a very desirable player. There's a reason why every single team with money was lining up to sign him. Not only is he a great player, but he's one of the best locker room guys in the League. Barring injuries, he will absolutely be movable should things go south, or once the three yrs are up

[WindyCityBorn]

Yet, if the Clippers, Lakers, Heat or some of the “In” teams had signed him, these same guys would be labeling this as a Homerun move.

A big part of the complaints around the move are that the Bulls are too far away and didn't leave themselves any wiggle room to improve from here. Effectively going all-in on a 40ish win team. That is a pretty big fundamental difference from teams that are viewed as legitimate title contenders going all-in.

I share those same concerns to a degree, but on the other hand, we were pretty bad for a long time without any real excitement or hope that things were going to turn around except just praying for lottery balls. We probably weren't significantly more likely to become great with that plan and would have been a lot less exciting for the next two years. The interesting question will be how to build out of this thing as Vuc/DeRozan age out of quality players in the next couple seasons.

If you really end up having something with Pat and/or Coby and Ball/Zach continue iterative improvements then its not nuts to think that core could be decent enough to remain a solid team if a couple smaller pieces can be added, but you are relying on getting near all-star performance out of at least one of Pat/Coby for that to happen.

I would feel pretty good about PWill if I was AKME. Coby eh, but I think he can thrive in his new role as flamethrower off the bench.

[Betta Bulleavit]

I think it was a great signing. He should remain All Star level for the 3 years-plus he is an attractive trade chip for a bigger star. A team could still get a name player, plus something else-if a star asks out

I agree. But it amazes me how many so called experts and analysts are crapping all over this move. Yet, if the Clippers, Lakers, Heat or some of the “In” teams had signed him, these same guys would be labeling this as a Homerun move. I think I’ve just grown a bit tired of all the same old narratives an knob skinning over the same teams year in and year out.

Will it take some time for all these new pieces to jell? Of course it will. Do the individual metrics indicate that that there could be some defensive challenges? Absolutely. But as a collective, our starting 5 (at the very least) should match up well with anybody in the East not named the Bucks or the Nets. But because it wasn’t supposed to happen that fast, the media at large seems to find it easier to question the legitimacy of the moves rather than acknowledging that this team could really be dangerous.

This comment is confusing. The Lakers & the heat got bounced in the first rd of the playoffs last season. Also, the LA Lakers got decimated for their signing of Russell Westbrook

I truly dont understand some of these comments. What is an "in" team...? ....A team that has actually had some winning seasons recently? The Bulls haven't been a winning basketball team in half a decade

My point is that when you aren’t winning, people seem to dismiss quality moves whereas the “winning” teams tend to have their moves viewed in a different light in general. If those teams that I mentioned made the same move that we did, people would have likely considered it a homerun is what I’m saying.

And even though we’ve been bad, most bad teams don’t make their rosters over as quickly as we have. So I just wish that instead of everybody focusing on how bad we’ve been, maybe people could actually take a look at THIS roster and talk about how good we could be. Because it’s not just that we got DeMar. Lonzo was a very important pick up because it brings the DeMar and Vuc acquisitions full circle. The Bulls were +9 in the win column this past year even with the lackluster roster that we did have. So with the roster we have now, I suspect that we will improve by that margin again, if not more.

[kodo]

Man this dude is underrated! His footwork is unreal.

Watch on YouTube

It's also impressive considering there is always a center near the paint because the Spurs don't space the floor much. It will be interesting to see Derozan operate with Vucevic at the 3 point line instead of Poeltl.

Spurs were the worst 3P shooting team in the NBA, Chicago is going to be a very different environment for his drives.