RealGM

When the offseason started and I looked around at who might be available, Derozan really popped up. IMO, he is a much better fit than given credit for. The Bulls want to play offense the way the current version of Derozan plays. I think its going to work well as long as he doesn't take too long to make decisions.

Overall, the Bulls (or any team), needs multiple creators. Expect Derozan and Lavine to alternate playing time through the middle of the game such that one of them is the primary focus of the offense all game long. People spend too much time focusing on how the players fit together on court.

Here is how I would do playing time:
0 min - Vuc - Lavine - Derozan start
6 min - Derozan out (Vuc - Lavine on)
8 min - Vuc out (Lavine on)
12 min - Derozan in, Lavine out (DDR on)
16 min - Vuc in (DDR, Vuc in)
18 min - Lavine in, DDR out (Lavine, Vuc in)
20 min - DDR in, (Lavine, DDR, Vuc in)
24 min - Half
2nd - Repeat

Total minutes
Lavine - 36
DDR - 32
Vuc - 32

Out of a 48 minute game, you have 20 minutes with all 3 on.

The other thing with DeRozan is he's probably not going to be averaging 34 mpg anymore. We saw what Donovan did with Thad, saw what he did with Gallinari... the guy has a pretty strong track record with recycling "declining vets" into new positions and more focused and efficient roles, with more bench relief. Billy's pretty good about assigning the dirty work to the less talented and more youthful role-players. Whereas Boylen would be asking DeRozan and Vuc to run suicides, Billy will be shielding their knees from any physical expenditures since there are 10 athletic 25yos to take up those busy defensive assignments.

Not surprised at all if DeRozan ends up averaging 10 mpg at SF; basically starting each half. I can see him sliding over very soon, getting spacing (Coby) or defense in there (Caruso, Troy, DJJ).

I agree he'll be a pretty good fit. Looking at the glass half-full, we're coming from Thad being a revelation. The guy came off one of his worst years in basketball and apparently couldn't be traded for a glass of pond water after Boylen's season. Billy put the ball in his hands in select stretches and he ran a great PnR with Zach. I think DeMar can do the same thing, even though he's a wing (while Thad was a big).

He might he kill us for those 10 mpg on defense, but when running PnR at PF, hard to see him being a downgrade over Lauri and Valentine (who actually played some half-decent PF before the deadline).

I think DeRozan can work on offense, but he's going to have to adjust his game now that he has Lavine and Vuc on his team. Basically, he's going to have to be more productive off ball. Let's look at some stats.

Here are his stats as a pick and roll ball handler. This is good stuff. Last year he was in this role 37% of the time, and he produced 1.02 PPP, which put him in the 84th percentile. Given his evolving role as a passer, this is the heart of why we signed DDR.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/ball-handler/#!?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*derozan

Also great is his iso game. He truly is elite here, 15% of his possessions, 1.22 PPP, and 95th percentile. In terms of guys who do this in volume, he is the best in the league. He will help immensely to carry us when others are cold, and he will be a big time contributor at the end of quarters and games. We won't be giving games away at the end anymore.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/ball-handler/#!?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*derozan

Another interesting point is that DDR is highly efficient as a post-up player. He went into the post only 8.2% of the time, but he produced 1.14 PPP, which put him in the 88.1 percentile. As a comparison, Vuc scored .90 PPP per post-up in ORL, and 1.01 PPP per post-up after having been traded by the Bulls. We should run some actions that end up with DDR getting the ball down low.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*derozan

The issues that that Mamba character was mentioning start to creep in when we look at his spot up stats from last year. Not so good. Spot up shots were 12.5% of his possessions, in which he produced 1.00 PPP, which put him in the 50.4 percentile. He needs to be forced to take more 3 pt shots, and to make them at a rate that is commensurate with his talent. Zach is going to create a lot of good looks for him. We need him to take advantage of those.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/spot-up/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*derozan

He also does not run off screens much. Possessions on screen plays were 5.3% of his possessions, and he produced 1.03 PPP, which put him in the 60th percentile.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/off-screen/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*derozan&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

The biggest issue is that DDR does not cut off ball hardly at all, and when he does, he is not productive. 1.4% of his possessions come off cuts, and he scores .84 PPP, which puts him in the 4th percentile. Ugh. BD is going to have get him to move off ball if our offense is going to work.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/cut/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*derozan

Overall, DDR is most effective in isolation situations, post-ups and as pick and roll ball handler. But having everyone stand around him and watch ends up costing the team because his other teammates are not involved and lose effectiveness while he dominates the ball. He needs to change his game and do more off ball in order to help the team. Will he? We shall see.

Derozan is a good addition on paper because of specifically how he gets his points, not just his raw points. If a team was the worst 3P shooting team in the league and they just signed the best 3P shooter in the league, that's a positive move.

Bulls are in that situation. Bulls are the worst FT scoring team in the league, which is crucial since FTs are the best way of generating points, better than 3s. Bulls are also the 2nd worst Isolation scoring team in the league.

Derozan is one of the best FT drawing scorers in the league, only superstars are above him.
Derozan is one of the best isolation scorers in the league.

When our offensive plays ran well through Thad, that was fine. But good teams play good defense and blow up set offenses all the time, the better the team the more likely set plays blow up. Then we go into isolation...and that's where we looked like hot garbage. This is where Derozan can help. For 2 seasons now the Bulls went into "hand grenade" mode and the ball was just being handed off because nobody wanted the damn ball. Derozan will take the ball and do something with it instead of just continually passing it around the perimeter until 3 seconds are left and Zach or Coby throw up something stupid.

It would be great if we never need to get into that situation and we never need a single isolation play, but that assumes the opponents are always incompetent. The Bucks & Nets are top 3 isolation teams. Teams need to score in iso even if it's a last option.

kodo wrote:Derozan is a good addition on paper because of specifically how he gets his points, not just his raw points. If a team was the worst 3P shooting team in the league and they just signed the best 3P shooter in the league, that's a positive move.

Bulls are in that situation. Bulls are the worst FT scoring team in the league, which is crucial since FTs are the best way of generating points, better than 3s. Bulls are also the 2nd worst Isolation scoring team in the league.

Derozan is one of the best FT drawing scorers in the league, only superstars are above him.
Derozan is one of the best isolation scorers in the league.

When our offensive plays ran well through Thad, that was fine. But good teams play good defense and blow up set offenses all the time, the better the team the more likely set plays blow up. Then we go into isolation...and that's where we looked like hot garbage. This is where Derozan can help. For 2 seasons now the Bulls went into "hand grenade" mode and the ball was just being handed off because nobody wanted the damn ball. Derozan will take the ball and do something with it instead of just continually passing it around the perimeter until 3 seconds are left and Zach or Coby throw up something stupid.

It would be great if we never need to get into that situation and we never need a single isolation play, but that assumes the opponents are always incompetent. The Bucks & Nets are top 3 isolation teams. Teams need to score in iso even if it's a last option.

I agree with all your points, but DDR also has to do more to help his teammates score when he is off ball. Zach also is an elite isolation player, scoring in the 92nd percentile at 1.14 PPP. DDR needs to make himself into a threat off ball so that Zach has room to operate. Zach clearly will be doing that for him.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*lavine

coldfish wrote:When the offseason started and I looked around at who might be available, Derozan really popped up. IMO, he is a much better fit than given credit for. The Bulls want to play offense the way the current version of Derozan plays. I think its going to work well as long as he doesn't take too long to make decisions.

Overall, the Bulls (or any team), needs multiple creators. Expect Derozan and Lavine to alternate playing time through the middle of the game such that one of them is the primary focus of the offense all game long. People spend too much time focusing on how the players fit together on court.

Here is how I would do playing time:
0 min - Vuc - Lavine - Derozan start
6 min - Derozan out (Vuc - Lavine on)
8 min - Vuc out (Lavine on)
12 min - Derozan in, Lavine out (DDR on)
16 min - Vuc in (DDR, Vuc in)
18 min - Lavine in, DDR out (Lavine, Vuc in)
20 min - DDR in, (Lavine, DDR, Vuc in)
24 min - Half
2nd - Repeat

Total minutes
Lavine - 36
DDR - 32
Vuc - 32

Out of a 48 minute game, you have 20 minutes with all 3 on.

Nice!

I've been thinking similarly. Thanks for putting it out there.

I will say that of our big 3, DDR is the one that I feel the most comfortable out there by himself, even more than Zach. And that's because I would put Ball (or Caruso) and Pat with him, and I think those two could give DDR spacing and defense to succeed.

https://theathletic.com/2848702/2021/09/27/superstar-shopping-lebron-russell-westbrook-and-the-lakers-summer-of-recruiting?source=user-shared-article

So, all those national media clowns asking "who were the Bulls betting against?"

The Lakers, apparently.

Well, actually LeDouche as acting GM.

The article is actually a very, very long ass kissing job towards LeBitch and the Lakers' very dubious offseason.

Grodoboldo wrote:https://theathletic.com/2848702/2021/09/27/superstar-shopping-lebron-russell-westbrook-and-the-lakers-summer-of-recruiting?source=user-shared-article

So, all those national media clowns asking "who were the Bulls betting against?"

The Lakers, apparently.

Well, actually LeDouche as acting GM.

The article is actually a very, very long ass kissing job towards LeBitch and the Lakers' very dubious offseason.

Well, the Westbrook to the Lakers trade was announced on draft night, July 29. The Bulls got DeRozan on Aug 3. So the question still remains, who were the Bulls bidding against at that point? The only other team that we know about was the Clippers, who were looking to get DDR with their $9.5 M MLE.

I know everyone loves a bargain, but there's something to be said about paying someone what they're worth. In today's league, DeRozan is worth the money he got. So while there may be some truth to the idea that we bid against ourselves, I think there's also some goodwill to be built from giving players what they're worth.

HomoSapien wrote:I know everyone loves a bargain, but there's something to be said about paying someone what they're worth. In today's league, DeRozan is worth the money he got. So while there may be some truth to the idea that we bid against ourselves, I think there's also some goodwill to be built from giving players what they're worth.

I don't think he's worth his deal, but it seems to me that the 3rd guy of big 3's is often the one who gets overpaid, because he "completes the set" and fills the GM's checklist.

sco wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:I know everyone loves a bargain, but there's something to be said about paying someone what they're worth. In today's league, DeRozan is worth the money he got. So while there may be some truth to the idea that we bid against ourselves, I think there's also some goodwill to be built from giving players what they're worth.

I don't think he's worth his deal, but it seems to me that the 3rd guy of big 3's is often the one who gets overpaid, because he "completes the set" and fills the GM's checklist.

Among his peers he's making less than LeBron, KD, George, Leonard, Butler, Harris, Middleton, Wiggins, Hayward, Ingram, Tatum, while making more than Gallinari, Barnes, Hardaway, Grant, etc. To me that seems priced pretty damn appropriately.

bad knees wrote:

Grodoboldo wrote:https://theathletic.com/2848702/2021/09/27/superstar-shopping-lebron-russell-westbrook-and-the-lakers-summer-of-recruiting?source=user-shared-article

So, all those national media clowns asking "who were the Bulls betting against?"

The Lakers, apparently.

Well, actually LeDouche as acting GM.

The article is actually a very, very long ass kissing job towards LeBitch and the Lakers' very dubious offseason.

Well, the Westbrook to the Lakers trade was announced on draft night, July 29. The Bulls got DeRozan on Aug 3. So the question still remains, who were the Bulls bidding against at that point? The only other team that we know about was the Clippers, who were looking to get DDR with their $9.5 M MLE.

They probably agreed on the money days before, and it took a while to arrange things with the Spurs.

DeRozan and Karl Anthony Towns both expire the same year. With how depressed KAT sounded about the Timberwolves today, I would keep an eye on his availability down the road. Zach and he are still very close, and given all he's been through I would suspect that being reunited with a close friend/teammate could do him some good.

HomoSapien wrote:I know everyone loves a bargain, but there's something to be said about paying someone what they're worth. In today's league, DeRozan is worth the money he got. So while there may be some truth to the idea that we bid against ourselves, I think there's also some goodwill to be built from giving players what they're worth.

Oh, he's definitely worth the contract he got. More importantly he is going to earn that contract when he's part of a trade that brings a young, talented superstar to Chicago (ie KAT, etc).

sco wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:I know everyone loves a bargain, but there's something to be said about paying someone what they're worth. In today's league, DeRozan is worth the money he got. So while there may be some truth to the idea that we bid against ourselves, I think there's also some goodwill to be built from giving players what they're worth.

I don't think he's worth his deal, but it seems to me that the 3rd guy of big 3's is often the one who gets overpaid, because he "completes the set" and fills the GM's checklist.

He won't look overpaid once Zach and Vuc sign new contracts and the salary cap inflates again.

A bump for fun. Relax everyone……don’t go editing your original posts now, ya hear?!?!

Not naming names

WindyCityBorn wrote:I don’t want Derozan. A ball dominant wing that can’t shoot. Don’t see how he fits here with LaVine and Ball.

WindyCityBorn wrote:

Red8911 wrote:

WindyCityBorn wrote:I don’t want Derozan. A ball dominant wing that can’t shoot. Don’t see how he fits here with LaVine and Ball.

Derozen would be the best part of this off-season. Not Ball or Caruso and add the fact that they lost Theis. If they don’t get Derozen I’m not crazy about these moves.

We fundamentally disagree. I’d rather keep Lauri than sign Derozan.

I had to….my bad, WindyCityBorn

SHO'NUFF wrote:

WindyCityBorn wrote:I don’t want Derozan. A ball dominant wing that can’t shoot. Don’t see how he fits here with LaVine and Ball.

WindyCityBorn wrote:

Red8911 wrote:Derozen would be the best part of this off-season. Not Ball or Caruso and add the fact that they lost Theis. If they don’t get Derozen I’m not crazy about these moves.

We fundamentally disagree. I’d rather keep Lauri than sign Derozan.

I had to….my bad, WindyCityBorn

I don’t remember saying this, but I was completely wrong. I thought I was on board from the beginning. Guess I post so much I can’t track of what I’ve said. Can’t believe I said wanted Lauri over him. Ugh!! I deserved to have this bumped.

WindyCityBorn wrote:

SHO'NUFF wrote:

WindyCityBorn wrote:I don’t want Derozan. A ball dominant wing that can’t shoot. Don’t see how he fits here with LaVine and Ball.

WindyCityBorn wrote:
We fundamentally disagree. I’d rather keep Lauri than sign Derozan.

I had to….my bad, WindyCityBorn

I don’t remember saying this, but I was completely wrong. I thought I was on board from the beginning. Guess I post so much I can’t track of what I’ve said. Can’t believe I said wanted Lauri over him. Ugh!! I deserved to have this bumped.

It’s all good man. We’ve all been there. Every board needs a prick like me to bring up their old posts for fun.