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WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14

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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#401 » by dougthonus » Mon Aug 9, 2021 1:26 pm

Grodoboldo wrote:I'll be chearing for Griffin to be fired.


Seems like he hasn't done a good job there. I'd say he absolutely will be fired. That said, I think the Pelicans are totally within their rights to complain if we are making illegal contact with their FAs. If some team made illegal contact with our FAs and hurt our franchise, I'd sure want us to protect our interests.

Now maybe that isn't how it went down at all, we may never really know why the investigation happened, and the theory I pieced together may be BS.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#402 » by chitowndish » Mon Aug 9, 2021 1:39 pm

I guess if the NBA knows enough to tell people that they want to make an example out of us I really wish they wouldn’t wait a month to get on with it. I agree though my main concern was the Ball trade falls through, the penalty prevents the DD trade and we lose Zach in FA and then have no draft picks. It sounds like they are going to make an example with us but if it’s one FRP and a significant financial penalty it sucks but I can deal with it. We could trade back into the late first round if we need.

I am really glad to see the Ball signing go through I don’t think they would have finalized it if the NBA was just going to unwind it so I think this indicates the trade will stand. All of the smoke about them gearing up to make an example of us kind of sucks though but whatever if it’s heavy financial and up to a FRP I can deal with it. Hopefully they don’t go the FRP route though I think that is pretty severe but it does sound like they want to make an example of us so I wouldn’t be surprised.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#403 » by chefo » Mon Aug 9, 2021 1:53 pm

Yeah, that leak is very unlikely to have come from the Bulls. However, you play stupid games (deal with the Balls and Bron's pet agency), you win stupid prizes.

I don't know why NO would complain, though. They agreed to the S&T. They didn't have to and could have told the Bulls to pound sand. Buyers remorse on Sato or Temple? These are useful players. Not getting a first like DD got and the one they had to ship out? Not getting Lauri and being stuck with the two highly priced vets above? Thing of it is, the NBA is a tiny fraternity and when you screw people over, word gets around fast. Not seeing why NO would complain, especially for a big overpay on a guy they didn't want to keep anyways. It's like the Bulls complaining that somebody reached out to Lauri while he was chilling back home.

That's just such a bizarre situation all around. It would be tragi-comic if the new FO got Gar-ed, just as a welcome to the big boy club kind of way.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#404 » by dougthonus » Mon Aug 9, 2021 1:56 pm

chefo wrote:Y
I don't know why NO would complain, though. They agreed to the S&T. They didn't have to and could have told the Bulls to pound sand.


They may have wanted Ball but felt like we had already been negotiating with him illegally and convinced him to leave. Then there choices were make the best of it or play hard ball with Ball and they decided to make the best of it. It doesn't mean they wouldn't be upset about the situation though.

Also, obviously, it's possible the investigation has nothing to do with the Pelicans complaining too, but the Pelicans complaining makes the most sense to me.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#405 » by bad knees » Mon Aug 9, 2021 2:07 pm

The Pels were a victim of the Bulls’ tampering, but they at least were able to get something out of it and, by participating in the trade, actually facilitated the Bulls’ tampering. That, I think, is why Marks talks about the Pels being in trouble in his video. The other victims were the teams that wanted Lonzo but could claim that they were denied that opportunity by the Bulls jumping the gun. I am inclined to think that one of those teams is the complainant here. Or maybe the NBA initiated the investigation on its own in light of the 5:00 pm tweet announcing the deal. The NBA would look like fools if they did not investigate in that circumstance.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#406 » by MisterRoy » Mon Aug 9, 2021 2:08 pm

dougthonus wrote:
chefo wrote:Y
I don't know why NO would complain, though. They agreed to the S&T. They didn't have to and could have told the Bulls to pound sand.


They may have wanted Ball but felt like we had already been negotiating with him illegally and convinced him to leave. Then there choices were make the best of it or play hard ball with Ball and they decided to make the best of it. It doesn't mean they wouldn't be upset about the situation though.

Also, obviously, it's possible the investigation has nothing to do with the Pelicans complaining too, but the Pelicans complaining makes the most sense to me.

Then why settle for Temple, Aminu, a 2nd and cash? Why not make the Bulla pay up? If Griffin would have said Coby white and not Temple, I think the Bulls would comply.


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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#407 » by FriedRise » Mon Aug 9, 2021 2:17 pm

Rich Paul was the one who told Woj and Sham, likely there reason why the announcements were made that quickly.

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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#408 » by Friend_Of_Haley » Mon Aug 9, 2021 2:17 pm

This is really dumb for the NBA. And I'll reiterate I think as long as the NBA has such a confusing and complex set of rules dictating the cap its ripe for corrupt behavior. So instead of fixing that, they'll just make an example of teams here and there until teams figure out the acceptable amount and acceptable way in which corrupting behavior is allowed. So dumb.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#409 » by dougthonus » Mon Aug 9, 2021 2:21 pm

MisterRoy wrote:Then why settle for Temple, Aminu, a 2nd and cash? Why not make the Bulla pay up? If Griffin would have said Coby white and not Temple, I think the Bulls would comply.


You're assuming that the Pelicans could have gotten more. Bulls could have just organized to pay with cap room instead. The fact that they're mad doesn't mean the Bulls would have given them more. If they could get more they should do that regardless not because of the tampering.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#410 » by MrFortune3 » Mon Aug 9, 2021 2:22 pm

umfan83 wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
I don't think the deal will be voided, but I have a feeling we'll either lose our 2022 or 2027 first-round pick.


Wouldn’t be 2022, cannot be without a 1st since we owe Orlando the 2023.

Highly doubt we get more than a fine. There is nothing to tamper with.
We talked trade with the Pelicans during the deadline and I’m sure numbers were broached then.


If I had to guess that rule is only in place for trades, not for punitive forfeiture of picks initiated by the league offices


It is a trade rule but I doubt the NBA is gonna have a team without consecutive 1sts when a pick is already owed for the next year.
It would have to be mega superstar level tampering.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#411 » by Grodoboldo » Mon Aug 9, 2021 2:33 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
umfan83 wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Wouldn’t be 2022, cannot be without a 1st since we owe Orlando the 2023.

Highly doubt we get more than a fine. There is nothing to tamper with.
We talked trade with the Pelicans during the deadline and I’m sure numbers were broached then.


If I had to guess that rule is only in place for trades, not for punitive forfeiture of picks initiated by the league offices


It is a trade rule but I doubt the NBA is gonna have a team without consecutive 1sts when a pick is already owed for the next year.
It would have to be mega superstar level tampering.


Maybe they already knew they were being investigated when they made the DD deal.
"Oh, you're gonna make me lose a FRP? Yeah, I'll just have no picks available then". Can't make me lose what I don't have :lol:
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#412 » by HomoSapien » Mon Aug 9, 2021 6:27 pm

Read on Twitter


I didn't recall that Woj straight-up named Rich Paul as his source in the Woj bomb Tweet (thanks to Doug for pointing that out). Terrible move by Lonzo's agency that could potentially have some long-lasting damage between Klutch and the Bulls. Hopefully, they make things right by swinging us some favor signings.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#413 » by Betta Bulleavit » Mon Aug 9, 2021 7:34 pm

bad knees wrote:The Pels were a victim of the Bulls’ tampering, but they at least were able to get something out of it and, by participating in the trade, actually facilitated the Bulls’ tampering.That, I think, is why Marks talks about the Pels being in trouble in his video. The other victims were the teams that wanted Lonzo but could claim that they were denied that opportunity by the Bulls jumping the gun. I am inclined to think that one of those teams is the complainant here. Or maybe the NBA initiated the investigation on its own in light of the 5:00 pm tweet announcing the deal. The NBA would look like fools if they did not investigate in that circumstance.

How do you know that the Pelicans were somehow “victims” in all of this? If they truly felt that tampering had occurred, they could have blown the whistle and not even engaged in any talks with the Bulls as the league was investigating. Yet they not only agreed to a deal but finalized it. At this point, it feels like you are actively hoping that the Bulls get nailed regardless of how much (or little) we know.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#414 » by bad knees » Mon Aug 9, 2021 7:51 pm

Betta Bulleavit wrote:
bad knees wrote:The Pels were a victim of the Bulls’ tampering, but they at least were able to get something out of it and, by participating in the trade, actually facilitated the Bulls’ tampering.That, I think, is why Marks talks about the Pels being in trouble in his video. The other victims were the teams that wanted Lonzo but could claim that they were denied that opportunity by the Bulls jumping the gun. I am inclined to think that one of those teams is the complainant here. Or maybe the NBA initiated the investigation on its own in light of the 5:00 pm tweet announcing the deal. The NBA would look like fools if they did not investigate in that circumstance.

How do you know that the Pelicans were somehow “victims” in all of this? If they truly felt that tampering had occurred, they could have blown the whistle and not even engaged in any talks with the Bulls as the league was investigating. Yet they not only agreed to a deal but finalized it. At this point, it feels like you are actively hoping that the Bulls get nailed regardless of how much (or little) we know.


Huh? The Pels were victims because they benefit from the no gun-jumping rules that could create a multi-team bidding war for Lonzo. The Bulls undercut that right by jumping the gun. Then the Pels decided that the best thing to do was to go along. They can be both a victim and a perpetrator.

And my statement had nothing to do with the Bulls and even less than my hopes for what happens to them. I was just addressing the question of how the investigation started. Of course, I hope the Bulls get off scot free. But based on the facts, I don't think that this will happen, and I am annoyed that AKME put the team that I root for into this position.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#415 » by Betta Bulleavit » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:00 pm

bad knees wrote:
Betta Bulleavit wrote:
bad knees wrote:The Pels were a victim of the Bulls’ tampering, but they at least were able to get something out of it and, by participating in the trade, actually facilitated the Bulls’ tampering.That, I think, is why Marks talks about the Pels being in trouble in his video. The other victims were the teams that wanted Lonzo but could claim that they were denied that opportunity by the Bulls jumping the gun. I am inclined to think that one of those teams is the complainant here. Or maybe the NBA initiated the investigation on its own in light of the 5:00 pm tweet announcing the deal. The NBA would look like fools if they did not investigate in that circumstance.

How do you know that the Pelicans were somehow “victims” in all of this? If they truly felt that tampering had occurred, they could have blown the whistle and not even engaged in any talks with the Bulls as the league was investigating. Yet they not only agreed to a deal but finalized it. At this point, it feels like you are actively hoping that the Bulls get nailed regardless of how much (or little) we know.


Huh? The Pels were victims because they benefit from the no gun-jumping rules that could create a multi-team bidding war for Lonzo. The Bulls undercut that right by jumping the gun. Then the Pels decided that the best thing to do was to go along. They can be both a victim and a perpetrator.

And my statement had nothing to do with the Bulls and even less than my hopes for what happens to them. I was just addressing the question of how the investigation started. Of course, I hope the Bulls get off scot free. But based on the facts, I don't think that this will happen, and I am annoyed that AKME put the team that I root for into this position.

But you are still assuming that it isn’t at all possible that NOP determined that they were going to do THIS deal and had the ground work laid out for it. Perhaps they wanted Lonzo’s situation already out of the way so that they could then pursue their primary target (Lowry).

Even when it comes to the contract element. Nobody knew how much Lonzo was seeking better than NOP. It’s likely the reason why they knew well in advance that they weren’t going to retain him. They could have told the Bulls what Lonzo was looking for, the Bulls were cool with that and then NOP went back to Lonzo and said “hey, we can’t pay you this. But Chicago has said they will. We’ve got a deal in place with them. We just need to know if that’s where you want to go.” And perhaps the deal came together that way.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#416 » by MrSparkle » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:15 pm

Just gonna go ahead and assume Bulls lose at least one FRP out of this. Sounds like the NBA is gonna make an example out of the Bulls. Pelicans probably whined. Ball family and Clutch Sports couldn't keep tight lips. Bulls obviously had a number agreed to before 5PM, and it's hard to believe the 'firm offer' was agreed to all the way back at the deadline.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#417 » by bad knees » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:19 pm

Betta Bulleavit wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Betta Bulleavit wrote:How do you know that the Pelicans were somehow “victims” in all of this? If they truly felt that tampering had occurred, they could have blown the whistle and not even engaged in any talks with the Bulls as the league was investigating. Yet they not only agreed to a deal but finalized it. At this point, it feels like you are actively hoping that the Bulls get nailed regardless of how much (or little) we know.


Huh? The Pels were victims because they benefit from the no gun-jumping rules that could create a multi-team bidding war for Lonzo. The Bulls undercut that right by jumping the gun. Then the Pels decided that the best thing to do was to go along. They can be both a victim and a perpetrator.

And my statement had nothing to do with the Bulls and even less than my hopes for what happens to them. I was just addressing the question of how the investigation started. Of course, I hope the Bulls get off scot free. But based on the facts, I don't think that this will happen, and I am annoyed that AKME put the team that I root for into this position.

But you are still assuming that it isn’t at all possible that NOP determined that they were going to do THIS deal and had the ground work laid out for it. Perhaps they wanted Lonzo’s situation already out of the way so that they could then pursue their primary target (Lowry).

Even when it comes to the contract element. Nobody knew how much Lonzo was seeking better than NOP. It’s likely the reason why they knew well in advance that they weren’t going to retain him. They could have told the Bulls what Lonzo was looking for, the Bulls were cool with that and then NOP went back to Lonzo and said “hey, we can’t pay you this. But Chicago has said they will. We’ve got a deal in place with them. We just need to know if that’s where you want to go.” And perhaps the deal came together that way.


I appreciate your creativity, but I would say that what you described is still gun-jumping. It seems very unlikely to me that the Pels were acting as the Bulls' advocate without the Bulls being aware of it. And if the Bulls were to proffer that defense to the NBA, I doubt that the NBA would find it credible. We shall see. I hope your hopefulness is justified; I'm just not seeing it.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#418 » by Rowland Garrett » Mon Aug 9, 2021 9:09 pm

As I posted (wrongly) in another thread. Don' like it, but can live with the Bulls losing their late first next year. Likely we would miss out on the next Dickie Simpkins.
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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#419 » by Mbrahv0528 » Mon Aug 9, 2021 9:29 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Jimmy Forums wrote:Started off trying to be optimistic about this. Feeling less so. Please don't void this.


No chance this get voided. So that isn't happening. Worst is like 5 million fine and lose a 1st round pick.



I wouldn't say no chance... The fines we can live with of course but the picks and or voiding a contract is an issue. They are almost forced to do something with Lowry too perhaps. Its a strange situation for sure. Not sure how it will play out. It isn't good that it has gotten this far though at all.
There is no chance this gets voided.

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Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#420 » by meekrab » Mon Aug 9, 2021 10:17 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
Read on Twitter


I didn't recall that Woj straight-up named Rich Paul as his source in the Woj bomb Tweet (thanks to Doug for pointing that out). Terrible move by Lonzo's agency that could potentially have some long-lasting damage between Klutch and the Bulls. Hopefully, they make things right by swinging us some favor signings.

I mean, assuming we did things the legit way (negotiating with Klutch via the Pelicans' FO) there shouldn't be any lasting angst there. It's just natural for an agent to want his guy's name out there.

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