Image ImageImage Image

WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14

Moderators: HomoSapien, RedBulls23, Michael Jackson, GimmeDat, Payt10, dougthonus, kulaz3000, Tommy Udo 6 , coldfish, Ice Man, DASMACKDOWN, fleet, AshyLarrysDiaper

WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 16,536
And1: 8,526
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#421 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:10 am

chitowndish wrote:I guess if the NBA knows enough to tell people that they want to make an example out of us I really wish they wouldn’t wait a month to get on with it. I agree though my main concern was the Ball trade falls through, the penalty prevents the DD trade and we lose Zach in FA and then have no draft picks. It sounds like they are going to make an example with us but if it’s one FRP and a significant financial penalty it sucks but I can deal with it. We could trade back into the late first round if we need.

I am really glad to see the Ball signing go through I don’t think they would have finalized it if the NBA was just going to unwind it so I think this indicates the trade will stand. All of the smoke about them gearing up to make an example of us kind of sucks though but whatever if it’s heavy financial and up to a FRP I can deal with it. Hopefully they don’t go the FRP route though I think that is pretty severe but it does sound like they want to make an example of us so I wouldn’t be surprised.


Where are getting that they want to make an example out of us?
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 16,536
And1: 8,526
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#422 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:13 am

bad knees wrote:
Betta Bulleavit wrote:
bad knees wrote:The Pels were a victim of the Bulls’ tampering, but they at least were able to get something out of it and, by participating in the trade, actually facilitated the Bulls’ tampering.That, I think, is why Marks talks about the Pels being in trouble in his video. The other victims were the teams that wanted Lonzo but could claim that they were denied that opportunity by the Bulls jumping the gun. I am inclined to think that one of those teams is the complainant here. Or maybe the NBA initiated the investigation on its own in light of the 5:00 pm tweet announcing the deal. The NBA would look like fools if they did not investigate in that circumstance.

How do you know that the Pelicans were somehow “victims” in all of this? If they truly felt that tampering had occurred, they could have blown the whistle and not even engaged in any talks with the Bulls as the league was investigating. Yet they not only agreed to a deal but finalized it. At this point, it feels like you are actively hoping that the Bulls get nailed regardless of how much (or little) we know.


Huh? The Pels were victims because they benefit from the no gun-jumping rules that could create a multi-team bidding war for Lonzo. The Bulls undercut that right by jumping the gun. Then the Pels decided that the best thing to do was to go along. They can be both a victim and a perpetrator.

And my statement had nothing to do with the Bulls and even less than my hopes for what happens to them. I was just addressing the question of how the investigation started. Of course, I hope the Bulls get off scot free. But based on the facts, I don't think that this will happen, and I am annoyed that AKME put the team that I root for into this position.


What evidence other than the deal being announce soon quickly?
bad knees
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,183
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jul 09, 2009

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#423 » by bad knees » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:23 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Betta Bulleavit wrote:How do you know that the Pelicans were somehow “victims” in all of this? If they truly felt that tampering had occurred, they could have blown the whistle and not even engaged in any talks with the Bulls as the league was investigating. Yet they not only agreed to a deal but finalized it. At this point, it feels like you are actively hoping that the Bulls get nailed regardless of how much (or little) we know.


Huh? The Pels were victims because they benefit from the no gun-jumping rules that could create a multi-team bidding war for Lonzo. The Bulls undercut that right by jumping the gun. Then the Pels decided that the best thing to do was to go along. They can be both a victim and a perpetrator.

And my statement had nothing to do with the Bulls and even less than my hopes for what happens to them. I was just addressing the question of how the investigation started. Of course, I hope the Bulls get off scot free. But based on the facts, I don't think that this will happen, and I am annoyed that AKME put the team that I root for into this position.


What evidence other than the deal being announce soon quickly?


Press reports in the days leading up to the draft quoting sources about Lonzo going to the Bulls for four years and more than $80 million. Which is exactly what happened at 5:00 pm when FA opened.

The NBA does not need proof beyond a reasonable doubt consisting of direct evidence of an agreement. Like any fact finder they are entitled to rely on circumstantial evidence and the reasonable inferences therefrom.
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 16,536
And1: 8,526
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#424 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:26 am

bad knees wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Huh? The Pels were victims because they benefit from the no gun-jumping rules that could create a multi-team bidding war for Lonzo. The Bulls undercut that right by jumping the gun. Then the Pels decided that the best thing to do was to go along. They can be both a victim and a perpetrator.

And my statement had nothing to do with the Bulls and even less than my hopes for what happens to them. I was just addressing the question of how the investigation started. Of course, I hope the Bulls get off scot free. But based on the facts, I don't think that this will happen, and I am annoyed that AKME put the team that I root for into this position.


What evidence other than the deal being announce soon quickly?


Press reports in the days leading up to the draft quoting sources about Lonzo going to the Bulls for four years and more than $80 million. Which is exactly what happened at 5:00 pm when FA opened.



That’s not evidence that can be used against us. Hearsay.
User avatar
Magilla_Gorilla
RealGM
Posts: 32,046
And1: 4,443
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: Sunday Morning coming down...
         

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#425 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:26 am

bad knees wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Huh? The Pels were victims because they benefit from the no gun-jumping rules that could create a multi-team bidding war for Lonzo. The Bulls undercut that right by jumping the gun. Then the Pels decided that the best thing to do was to go along. They can be both a victim and a perpetrator.

And my statement had nothing to do with the Bulls and even less than my hopes for what happens to them. I was just addressing the question of how the investigation started. Of course, I hope the Bulls get off scot free. But based on the facts, I don't think that this will happen, and I am annoyed that AKME put the team that I root for into this position.


What evidence other than the deal being announce soon quickly?


Press reports in the days leading up to the draft quoting sources about Lonzo going to the Bulls for four years and more than $80 million. Which is exactly what happened at 5:00 pm when FA opened.


Wasn't that the max contract the Bulls could offer?
Sham - Y U NO sell me a t-shirt? Best OB/GYN Houston
bad knees
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,183
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jul 09, 2009

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#426 » by bad knees » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:29 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
bad knees wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
What evidence other than the deal being announce soon quickly?


Press reports in the days leading up to the draft quoting sources about Lonzo going to the Bulls for four years and more than $80 million. Which is exactly what happened at 5:00 pm when FA opened.



That’s not evidence that can be used against us. Hearsay.


This is not a court of law. There are no rules of evidence. The NBA gets to decide what the standard of proof is and what evidence to consider.
bad knees
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,183
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jul 09, 2009

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#427 » by bad knees » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:32 am

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
bad knees wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
What evidence other than the deal being announce soon quickly?


Press reports in the days leading up to the draft quoting sources about Lonzo going to the Bulls for four years and more than $80 million. Which is exactly what happened at 5:00 pm when FA opened.


Wasn't that the max contract the Bulls could offer?


No. His max contract was 25% of the cap, which would be about $27 M in the first year. He got 4/85.
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 16,536
And1: 8,526
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#428 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:32 am

bad knees wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Press reports in the days leading up to the draft quoting sources about Lonzo going to the Bulls for four years and more than $80 million. Which is exactly what happened at 5:00 pm when FA opened.



That’s not evidence that can be used against us. Hearsay.



This is not a court of law. There are no rules of evidence. The NBA gets to decide what the standard of proof is and what evidence to consider.


That level of flimsy evidence will not be enough.
bad knees
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,183
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jul 09, 2009

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#429 » by bad knees » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:38 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
bad knees wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:

That’s not evidence that can be used against us. Hearsay.



This is not a court of law. There are no rules of evidence. The NBA gets to decide what the standard of proof is and what evidence to consider.


That level of flimsy evidence will not be enough.


We shall see. The NBA will likely feel that the 5 pm tweet on a S&T was rubbing it in their face. If they don’t act in that circumstance, then when will they act? Non-action will turn their enforcement program on gun-jumping into a joke. They have made it clear that their enforcement program is not to be taken as a joke.

Hope I’m wrong. But I don’t think I am.
StunnerKO
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,795
And1: 2,536
Joined: Sep 25, 2017

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#430 » by StunnerKO » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:39 am

Read on Twitter
?s=21
Dez
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,717
And1: 6,470
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#431 » by Dez » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:40 am

bad knees wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Press reports in the days leading up to the draft quoting sources about Lonzo going to the Bulls for four years and more than $80 million. Which is exactly what happened at 5:00 pm when FA opened.



That’s not evidence that can be used against us. Hearsay.


This is not a court of law. There are no rules of evidence. The NBA gets to decide what the standard of proof is and what evidence to consider.


The league isn't going to do anything without solid proof.
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 16,536
And1: 8,526
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#432 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:52 am

StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


That’s our point god. 8-)
User avatar
chitowndish
Senior
Posts: 618
And1: 354
Joined: Apr 27, 2014
   

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#433 » by chitowndish » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:07 am

Read on Twitter


This is the tweet that I saw the Bulls/Pelicans deal was going to be handled harsher. There was another tweet as well saying Miami was likely to be more jumping the gun in comparison and I haven’t seen anyone come out and say the Bulls are not going to be handled harshly. If one guy is saying we are going to get the book thrown at us and someone is saying it isn’t as bad for Miami it doesn’t sound good for us is I guess where I’m at.

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Kurt Heimlich
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,406
And1: 4,099
Joined: Jun 26, 2001

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#434 » by Kurt Heimlich » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:09 am

I made the "no first round pick to take" joke on page one of this thread, but I'm going to laugh (out of bitter rage) if we become the first team to violate the Steipen rule bc of a tampering penalty.
User avatar
kulaz3000
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 38,625
And1: 19,752
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#435 » by kulaz3000 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:19 am

I mean, what's taking them so long to put down a ruling? What are they waiting for? If you're going to take picks, take them. I'm just asking why it's taking them so long? Do they need to come up with a valid reason that EVERYONE talks to agents, teams and players well before the actual time when they are supposed to, but they simply don't want certain transactions announced publicly, because it's a stupid rule to begin with.

I mean, c'mon NBA. You can't punish teams for hush hush rules which you have no real intention of truly enforcing. Just like how you don't enforce legitimate play-calling by your referees, most fans know this but we still buy-in to the sceptical and fun, just let it be. This entire situation is just such nonsense.
Why so serious?
User avatar
HomoSapien
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 31,074
And1: 21,588
Joined: Aug 17, 2009
 

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#436 » by HomoSapien » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:32 am

kulaz3000 wrote:I mean, what's taking them so long to put down a ruling? What are they waiting for? If you're going to take picks, take them. I'm just asking why it's taking them so long? Do they need to come up with a valid reason that EVERYONE talks to agents, teams and players well before the actual time when they are supposed to, but they simply don't want certain transactions announced publicly, because it's a stupid rule to begin with.

I mean, c'mon NBA. You can't punish teams for hush hush rules which you have no real intention of truly enforcing. Just like how you don't enforce legitimate play-calling by your referees, most fans know this but we still buy-in to the sceptical and fun, just let it be. This entire situation is just such nonsense.


Apparently the Bucks investigation lasted a month.
ThreeYearPlan wrote:Bulls fans defend HomoSapien more than Rose.
User avatar
kulaz3000
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 38,625
And1: 19,752
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#437 » by kulaz3000 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:53 am

HomoSapien wrote:
kulaz3000 wrote:I mean, what's taking them so long to put down a ruling? What are they waiting for? If you're going to take picks, take them. I'm just asking why it's taking them so long? Do they need to come up with a valid reason that EVERYONE talks to agents, teams and players well before the actual time when they are supposed to, but they simply don't want certain transactions announced publicly, because it's a stupid rule to begin with.

I mean, c'mon NBA. You can't punish teams for hush hush rules which you have no real intention of truly enforcing. Just like how you don't enforce legitimate play-calling by your referees, most fans know this but we still buy-in to the sceptical and fun, just let it be. This entire situation is just such nonsense.


Apparently the Bucks investigation lasted a month.


My goodness, that's just ridiculous. Well as long as it doesn't stop us from making any further moves.
Why so serious?
User avatar
andyhop
Analyst
Posts: 3,188
And1: 949
Joined: May 08, 2007
   

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#438 » by andyhop » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:55 am

Kurt Heimlich wrote:I made the "no first round pick to take" joke on page one of this thread, but I'm going to laugh (out of bitter rage) if we become the first team to violate the Steipen rule bc of a tampering penalty.


The Timberwolves beat you to that honour thanks to Joe Smith
"Football is not a matter of life and death...it's much more important than that."- Bill Shankley
User avatar
Kurt Heimlich
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,406
And1: 4,099
Joined: Jun 26, 2001

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#439 » by Kurt Heimlich » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:59 am

andyhop wrote:
Kurt Heimlich wrote:I made the "no first round pick to take" joke on page one of this thread, but I'm going to laugh (out of bitter rage) if we become the first team to violate the Steipen rule bc of a tampering penalty.


The Timberwolves beat you to that honour thanks to Joe Smith


HA! That did happen didn't it. Well thanks for that reminder, the Bulls might not have a first rounder until 2026, GREAT.
the ultimates
Analyst
Posts: 3,488
And1: 1,504
Joined: Jul 06, 2012

Re: WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering violations on Ball: Update pg. 14 

Post#440 » by the ultimates » Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:34 am

If the Bulls get penalized I would like to see the evidence the league gathered. This is the same NBA that didn't say one word about Anthony Davis hiring Rich Paul and being represented by Klutch Sports. The same management company current NBA player Lebron James is an owner of. The same Anthony Davis who just happened to force a trade to the Lakers. We were hearing rumors he wanted LA right when AD changed agents.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.

Return to Chicago Bulls