Coby White discussion thread

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I think people are being far too hard on Coby. He's a 20 year old kid, and so many judgements about him are being made based upon what he did last season when he was thrust into a role that was both too big for him at this point in his career and ill-suited to his skillset.

He shot 35% from 3 in both of his first two seasons, just a tenth of a percentage point from 36 last season, as a 19 and 20 year old. That's where he's starting from as a shooter. He's going to be a good shooter, and he's going to be able score in bunches.

Defensively, he needs to be better, but I remember in his rookie year people talking about how he had all the physical tools - 6'4' height and athleticism - to be a very good defender against point guards and smaller shooting guards. I have hope that on a good defensive team with a good coach, he will figure it out.

I have real hope that with a smaller role as a scorer off the bench, without the expectation of creating for anyone or running an offense, that he will find his groove and be good player, whether for us or for someone else.

It certainly seems like there are other teams that would have interest in him if we don't.

[dougthonus]

I think people are being far too hard on Coby. He's a 20 year old kid, and so many judgements about him are being made based upon what he did last season when he was thrust into a role that was both too big for him at this point in his career and ill-suited to his skillset.

He shot 35% from 3 in both of his first two seasons, just a tenth of a percentage point from 36 last season, as a 19 and 20 year old. That's where he's starting from as a shooter. He's going to be a good shooter, and he's going to be able score in bunches.

Defensively, he needs to be better, but I remember in his rookie year people talking about how he had all the physical tools - 6'4' height and athleticism - to be a very good defender against point guards and smaller shooting guards. I have hope that on a good defensive team with a good coach, he will figure it out.

I have real hope that with a smaller role as a scorer off the bench, without the expectation of creating for anyone or running an offense, that he will find his groove and be good player, whether for us or for someone else.

It certainly seems like there are other teams that would have interest in him if we don't.

Coby is in the "prove it" state for me.

It's not that I don't think he could become good, he absolutely could. However, his shooting is nothing special in its current state, it wasn't anything special in college, and it doesn't really project to ever be special in the NBA. He has a low release point and poor form, so while he may overcome that to become an amazing shooter, there isn't any real particular reason you should think that vs other young shooters.

Some guys develop that a ton and some don't. Look at Lonzo or LaMelo Ball as example points. Maybe Coby will make huge strides or maybe he won't.

He is tall, but he has very short arms, so he plays more like a 6'1 guy than a 6'4 guy, he's a moderate athlete for a guard not an exceptional one. His handle and vision are sub par for a PG but fine for a combo guard.

He's a guy that presently projects out to peak as a solid role player. A guy who is a strong bench option or the 4th or 5th most important guy in your starting lineup. That may change if we see significant skill growth, but that's what I would guess based on where he is now.

As such, he's a guy who can help your team and add some value long term potentially, but he'll also be one of those guys you keep or don't keep based on his fit with your roster and his pricetag.

[DuckIII]

In theory this team needs Coby’s offense. But for how this team wins, and with the belief offense is destined to improve regardless of Coby, I still don’t see much of a role for him unless he is just lights out on offense. The D from Caruso and Ayo is just too important to how we play.

[CaPiTanAK]

In theory this team needs Coby’s offense. But for how this team wins, and with the belief offense is destined to improve regardless of Coby, I still don’t see much of a role for him unless he is just lights out on offense. The D from Caruso and Ayo is just too important to how we play.

In the playoff, you need multiple shot creators with FU offense in order to go far. Coby White can be that guy while improving on his defense.

[sco]

I think people are being far too hard on Coby. He's a 20 year old kid, and so many judgements about him are being made based upon what he did last season when he was thrust into a role that was both too big for him at this point in his career and ill-suited to his skillset.

He shot 35% from 3 in both of his first two seasons, just a tenth of a percentage point from 36 last season, as a 19 and 20 year old. That's where he's starting from as a shooter. He's going to be a good shooter, and he's going to be able score in bunches.

Defensively, he needs to be better, but I remember in his rookie year people talking about how he had all the physical tools - 6'4' height and athleticism - to be a very good defender against point guards and smaller shooting guards. I have hope that on a good defensive team with a good coach, he will figure it out.

I have real hope that with a smaller role as a scorer off the bench, without the expectation of creating for anyone or running an offense, that he will find his groove and be good player, whether for us or for someone else.

It certainly seems like there are other teams that would have interest in him if we don't.

Coby is in the "prove it" state for me.

It's not that I don't think he could become good, he absolutely could. However, his shooting is nothing special in its current state, it wasn't anything special in college, and it doesn't really project to ever be special in the NBA. He has a low release point and poor form, so while he may overcome that to become an amazing shooter, there isn't any real particular reason you should think that vs other young shooters.

Some guys develop that a ton and some don't. Look at Lonzo or LaMelo Ball as example points. Maybe Coby will make huge strides or maybe he won't.

He is tall, but he has very short arms, so he plays more like a 6'1 guy than a 6'4 guy, he's a moderate athlete for a guard not an exceptional one. His handle and vision are sub par for a PG but fine for a combo guard.

He's a guy that presently projects out to peak as a solid role player. A guy who is a strong bench option or the 4th or 5th most important guy in your starting lineup. That may change if we see significant skill growth, but that's what I would guess based on where he is now.

As such, he's a guy who can help your team and add some value long term potentially, but he'll also be one of those guys you keep or don't keep based on his fit with your roster and his pricetag.

Well said. Here's how I see the dilemma with him. Given his injury and missing the summer, I expect him to be flat out bad for probably a couple of months this season (which will make his season stats look bad). Barring a miracle, I don't see him playing well enough to garner any trade value at the deadline this year anyway. I would expect Billy to work him in slowly, but maybe by the last couple of months of the season, he might be a good rotational piece.

I don't think any team will give us a FRP for him next offseason either, but IMO, but maybe he becomes a bench guy who becomes efficient because he learns Billy's system well enough to be helpful, and he will clearly be a "bench player" by the time his rookie deal comes up and we can resign him on a $4-$5M deal.

[RSP83]

I think people are being far too hard on Coby. He's a 20 year old kid, and so many judgements about him are being made based upon what he did last season when he was thrust into a role that was both too big for him at this point in his career and ill-suited to his skillset.

He shot 35% from 3 in both of his first two seasons, just a tenth of a percentage point from 36 last season, as a 19 and 20 year old. That's where he's starting from as a shooter. He's going to be a good shooter, and he's going to be able score in bunches.

Defensively, he needs to be better, but I remember in his rookie year people talking about how he had all the physical tools - 6'4' height and athleticism - to be a very good defender against point guards and smaller shooting guards. I have hope that on a good defensive team with a good coach, he will figure it out.

I have real hope that with a smaller role as a scorer off the bench, without the expectation of creating for anyone or running an offense, that he will find his groove and be good player, whether for us or for someone else.

It certainly seems like there are other teams that would have interest in him if we don't.

Coby is in the "prove it" state for me.

It's not that I don't think he could become good, he absolutely could. However, his shooting is nothing special in its current state, it wasn't anything special in college, and it doesn't really project to ever be special in the NBA. He has a low release point and poor form, so while he may overcome that to become an amazing shooter, there isn't any real particular reason you should think that vs other young shooters.

Some guys develop that a ton and some don't. Look at Lonzo or LaMelo Ball as example points. Maybe Coby will make huge strides or maybe he won't.

He is tall, but he has very short arms, so he plays more like a 6'1 guy than a 6'4 guy, he's a moderate athlete for a guard not an exceptional one. His handle and vision are sub par for a PG but fine for a combo guard.


He's a guy that presently projects out to peak as a solid role player. A guy who is a strong bench option or the 4th or 5th most important guy in your starting lineup. That may change if we see significant skill growth, but that's what I would guess based on where he is now.

As such, he's a guy who can help your team and add some value long term potentially, but he'll also be one of those guys you keep or don't keep based on his fit with your roster and his pricetag.

True. Kemba is another player with short wingspan, he found some success because of his quickness and solid handles (solid, not great like The Currys or The Kyries). I think if Coby can work on his handles and turn it into one of his strength (at least reliable enough to compliment his quickness), his projection will be more exciting. In the short term, I hope he can outplay TBJ. Because TBJ is probably the most forgettable player right now in terms of value contribution when he's on the court. Coby has more natural instinct as a scorer than TBJ, that adds a bit more element of surprise to the lineup. TBJ IMO is too predictable for the defense, opponents has to keep an eye on Coby. He can be disruptive in that sense.

[dougthonus]

True. Kemba is another player with short wingspan, he found some success because of his quickness and solid handles (solid, not great like The Currys or The Kyries). I think if Coby can work on his handles and turn it into one of his strength (at least reliable enough to compliment his quickness), his projection will be more exciting. In the short term, I hope he can outplay TBJ. Because TBJ is probably the most forgettable player right now in terms of value contribution when he's on the court. Coby has more natural instinct as a scorer than TBJ, that adds a bit more element of surprise to the lineup. TBJ IMO is too predictable for the defense, opponents has to keep an eye on Coby. He can be disruptive in that sense.

I think Coby will have a role on this team when he's healthy because he adds something we don't have.

DJJ, TBJ, Alize, Green, Caruso, and Bradley are all basically defense first guys with limited to no offense. Maybe Caruso can give you some passing but not really much scoring. Coby can give you scoring. No one else on the bench can do that.

It doesn't mean he'll have a massive role because so far staggering Zach/DeRozan/Vuc we've kept enough offense on the floor at all times, but at the inevitable times where those guys get banged up and miss a few games here or there Coby will have a big role, and even when they don't there will certainly be times we like having an extra offensive option on the floor.

[BullChit]

True. Kemba is another player with short wingspan, he found some success because of his quickness and solid handles (solid, not great like The Currys or The Kyries). I think if Coby can work on his handles and turn it into one of his strength (at least reliable enough to compliment his quickness), his projection will be more exciting. In the short term, I hope he can outplay TBJ. Because TBJ is probably the most forgettable player right now in terms of value contribution when he's on the court. Coby has more natural instinct as a scorer than TBJ, that adds a bit more element of surprise to the lineup. TBJ IMO is too predictable for the defense, opponents has to keep an eye on Coby. He can be disruptive in that sense.

I think Coby will have a role on this team when he's healthy because he adds something we don't have.

DJJ, TBJ, Alize, Green, Caruso, and Bradley are all basically defense first guys with limited to no offense. Maybe Caruso can give you some passing but not really much scoring. Coby can give you scoring. No one else on the bench can do that.

It doesn't mean he'll have a massive role because so far staggering Zach/DeRozan/Vuc we've kept enough offense on the floor at all times, but at the inevitable times where those guys get banged up and miss a few games here or there Coby will have a big role, and even when they don't there will certainly be times we like having an extra offensive option on the floor.

DeMar is starting to show his Drive and Kick game in the past two games and as much as I love what I'm seeing from Ayo I can only imagine that a DeMar drive and Kick to a wide open Coby is going to be cash money.

[DuckIII]

In theory this team needs Coby’s offense. But for how this team wins, and with the belief offense is destined to improve regardless of Coby, I still don’t see much of a role for him unless he is just lights out on offense. The D from Caruso and Ayo is just too important to how we play.

In the playoff, you need multiple shot creators with FU offense in order to go far. Coby White can be that guy while improving on his defense.

I agree with you. But to be that guy he has to become a
better, more efficient scorer. And he has to cut down on his turnovers. He’s not good enough at any of that right now to be that guy. But he has the talent to be that guy. I was opposed to drafting him 7th because I felt his maximized potential would be as a microwave scorer off the bench and felt there were higher ceiling risk reward guys to target. But also believed then, and believe now, that a microwave combo guard is still very valuable. Coby just isn’t there yet. If he gets there he has a legitimate role.

[TeamMan]

All of the discussions that I've seen so far about Coby have basically ignored his injury.

The whole thing seems to be a mystery that is being upheld by the team and the press in general.

What's clear, is that it was such a major injury that they had to immediately rush him into surgery. But no detailed (i.e. ligaments, bones, etc.) information was released on exactly what the injury was (just left shoulder) and what were the prospects for a full recovery.

However, the discussions that I've seen all appear to expect that he will be fully recovered when he returns.

But what if his ball handling is affected? What if his shooting is affected? What if his defense is affected?

There were actually things that I liked about Coby before his injury:

1) His 3P shooting (especially that he could get his shot off while being guarded)

2) That he had really quick hands (that helped him to pick up unexpected steals, and also compensated for his mediocre handle)

3) That he had unexpected quick feet on defense.

4) That he had a relatively high BB IQ on defense that made him a respectable defender.

Now, for me, only his quick feet and BB IQ can be certain to survive the injury.

So, my position is to wait and see if he's recovered from his injury before I make any projection on how he's going to fit in with the Bulls after his return.

[coldfish]

The guy I would point to here would be Matt Thomas. Thomas is a significantly better catch and shoot 3p guy than Coby. Despite that, he doesn't play at all. Why? Defense and lack of ball handling.

In order to get minutes, Coby is going to have to really improve his defense and on ball decision making. People always say "well, he did bad as PG. He'll be fine off ball!" Well, there is no PG in this offense. The PG is the guy with the ball and if Coby does dumb things with it, he is a liability.

Coby was getting entitlement minutes last year. I very much doubt he gets them this year. As was discussed before, he now has 3 people ahead of him in the rotation (Lavine, Ball, Caruso) and one guy competing with him who brings it on defense (Ayo).

Coby's glimmer of hope is that TBJ has played poorly and the team may play more 3 guard lineups.

[ATRAIN53]

Wow. Kid has played like barley 100 NBA games and 1/2 of it in a pandemic with empty stadiums.
I'm still a big time Coby White fan

But there's no more shots out there when he comes back now.....

DeRozan is balling out and playing like a guy who has been re-energized.
Dude had his career flipped upside down out of nowhere 2 years ago. He's finally happy again I think.
He's not giving way to Coby.

Javonte Green is out there playing for a paycheck.
A Radford colege kid who scrapped thru the G league to make it.
He will run thru a brick wall and dive for any loose ball and fire up the squad.
Like if that locker room likes him - they will help him get paid.

Coby is kinda odd man out right now.
Too much pressure to comer out and be perfect in the limited time he'll get.
Not used to be a bench player.

I guess I'd probably trade him for a future pick if it's out there.
Kid is not a bench player, he's a put him on the floor am make buckets type.

[nekorajo]

How old is Coby? 21? Coby has done well for a young player. If he keeps the turnovers down, which he was improving after the Vuc trade, there will be little left for him to prove. He's clearly a blossoming offensive talent who gives a consistent effort on defense. Most importantly, he lays it all on the line for a chance to win. Give me fighters on my team any day. On paper he's a great fit off the bench or as a starter if Zach needs time to heal.

[CaPiTanAK]

All of the discussions that I've seen so far about Coby have basically ignored his injury.

The whole thing seems to be a mystery that is being upheld by the team and the press in general.

What's clear, is that it was such a major injury that they had to immediately rush him into surgery. But no detailed (i.e. ligaments, bones, etc.) information was released on exactly what the injury was (just left shoulder) and what were the prospects for a full recovery.

However, the discussions that I've seen all appear to expect that he will be fully recovered when he returns.

But what if his ball handling is affected? What if his shooting is affected? What if his defense is affected?

There were actually things that I liked about Coby before his injury:

1) His 3P shooting (especially that he could get his shot off while being guarded)

2) That he had really quick hands (that helped him to pick up unexpected steals, and also compensated for his mediocre handle)

3) That he had unexpected quick feet on defense.

4) That he had a relatively high BB IQ on defense that made him a respectable defender.

Now, for me, only his quick feet and BB IQ can be certain to survive the injury.

So, my position is to wait and see if he's recovered from his injury before I make any projection on how he's going to fit in with the Bulls after his return.

He has a torn labrum. Full recovery especially in the sports of basketball.

He should be ambidextrous right now since he has plenty of time to dribble on his left hand in the past 6 months. We will see.

But Coby White has a lot of natural scorer instincts that you can’t reach. If he does provide that offensive spark, it’s worth it to wait until Feb for him to gain form Bc the goal is to go far in the playoff and not just to make the playoff.

[sco]

Wow. Kid has played like barley 100 NBA games and 1/2 of it in a pandemic with empty stadiums.
I'm still a big time Coby White fan

But there's no more shots out there when he comes back now.....

DeRozan is balling out and playing like a guy who has been re-energized.
Dude had his career flipped upside down out of nowhere 2 years ago. He's finally happy again I think.
He's not giving way to Coby.

Javonte Green is out there playing for a paycheck.
A Radford colege kid who scrapped thru the G league to make it.
He will run thru a brick wall and dive for any loose ball and fire up the squad.
Like if that locker room likes him - they will help him get paid.

Coby is kinda odd man out right now.
Too much pressure to comer out and be perfect in the limited time he'll get.
Not used to be a bench player.

I guess I'd probably trade him for a future pick if it's out there.
Kid is not a bench player, he's a put him on the floor am make buckets type.

How old is Coby? 21? Coby has done well for a young player. If he keeps the turnovers down, which he was improving after the Vuc trade, there will be little left for him to prove. He's clearly a blossoming offensive talent who gives a consistent effort on defense. Most importantly, he lays it all on the line for a chance to win. Give me fighters on my team any day. On paper he's a great fit off the bench or as a starter if Zach needs time to heal.

I don't get the narrative that you guys are putting out there that he has shown anything close to starting NBA talent during his stint. He flat out sucked at playmaking until he went into "hand-off to Vuc" assist mode last season. He has no ability to see guys other than straight ahead and no ability to set them up (we know what that looks like now and nobody was making the goggles handsigns to him). His defensive effort has always been there, but his ability to get over screens was also terrible. He was also terrible at scoring in any other way that catch-and-shoot 3's, where he was average. He's 21, but IMO, most guys who have "starting potential" have flashed a lot more in their first couple years.

That said, I'm not big on a sell-low trade move for him as there is NFW we get either a middle-first round pick or a player with starting talent back for him this season.

[dougthonus]

I agree with you. But to be that guy he has to become a
better, more efficient scorer. And he has to cut down on his turnovers. He’s not good enough at any of that right now to be that guy. But he has the talent to be that guy. I was opposed to drafting him 7th because I felt his maximized potential would be as a microwave scorer off the bench and felt there were higher ceiling risk reward guys to target. But also believed then, and believe now, that a microwave combo guard is still very valuable. Coby just isn’t there yet. If he gets there he has a legitimate role.

First, I will state that I agree with you that Coby needs to be better in the areas you mentioned but there is reason to be optimistic:
- Turnovers should reduce as his role changes from 1st string on the ball PG to 2nd string off the ball shooter
- His efficiency should improve with more catch and shoot threes and less step back off the dribble threes
- His drives should improve when a greater percentage come off a recovering defender vs a set defender (getting kick outs vs initiating offense)

He needs to make the most of his opportunities and also fit well into the defensive scheme, but I think there is good reason to feel optimistic that he can be a microwave scorer off the bench if playing with DeMar as the primary offensive facilitator.

[Andi Obst]

I said before the season that I expect Coby to have a pretty good role off the bench because the bench is going to struggle to score the ball. And while that has definitely been true so far, I didn't expect our defense to be so good and that changes things for Coby. He'll need to be a lot better than he ever was, especially defensively, to earn a significant role.

But with that being said, I'm still excited to get him back. It's nice to have someone on the bench who can at least theoretically provide some offense. Adding Coby and making him fight for rotation minutes can't hurt.

[Jello Biafra]

Why no game thread for tonight's game?

[DuckIII]

Why no game thread for tonight's game?

We aren’t doing those anymore. It’s a foregone conclusion the Bulls will win them all.

[waffle]

gun to head:

ayo or coby?

I bet it's pretty close