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Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era

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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#101 » by Hangtime84 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:02 pm

TSS wrote:Thanks for this board. There is some seriously knowledgeable folks hanging around here. I'll follow Lauri but I have to say I grew to like the Bulls quite a bit. And that was no easy feat coming in as a Jazz supporter and having watched Jordan & Folks demolish my team time and time again.

I think trade was good for both parties. Only real downside is that I am certain I cannot find a Cavs board as lively as this one has been. I personally do not like where Bulls is heading but this would not be the first time I am proven wrong. I just cannot imagine a team whose three best players are terrible to bad defensively and only effective on ball offensively to work out. All three are good players but I do not believe they work in same team. Also, I have low expectations on PWill and in current scenario him panning out and doing it fast is critical.

Best of luck for the Bulls and the members around here. I enjoyed the ride.

/TSS


This was a popular board back when Lebron was there

https://realcavsfans.com/index.php?threads/welcome-lauri-markkanen.51001/page-2
Jcool0 wrote:
aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?


If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.


NBA fan logic we need to trade one of two best players because (Player X) one needs to shine more.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#102 » by transplant » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:12 pm

I was a Markkanen fan. His worst season had him averaging 18 points and 8 rebounds per 36 with a 56% TS%. Not great, but a long way from suckage.

Markkanen started out pretty encouragingly, but disappointingly didn't get better. I wish him well, but he ain't a Bull anymore so I don't care much. Kudos to Bulls management for getting some value, particular future draft capital, for him. They made a better deal than I imagined they could.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#103 » by BeKuK » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:12 pm

NOT EVEN gonna say BYE ...or THANK YOU...to Lauri.

Only thing I really appreciate is that with his going away, so did my last Bulls frustration. It is like I finally can be happy again....^^
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#104 » by SaNdMiRkS » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:14 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
coldfish wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
I don’t even know if GarPax were going 2008. At no point did I get what the 14-20 team was supposed to be. They hired opposite coaching staffs for their roster personnel, and hoped all deficiencies would be magically resolved with strategy.

Gave Thibs a bunch of one way shooters with poor D ceiling (Niko, Doug, MDJ, Brooks). Got an up-tempo 3P rookie coach for a heavy aging vet 14-15 team. Then they flipped the roster and gave him 3 high-usage ballhandlers, a plodding center and very unathletic wings who couldn’t shoot 3Ps. Then they got him a young PG who couldn’t shoot, and a big PF who could shoot but also couldn’t run like the types of athletes Fred was running at PF.

Then by the time they had all 1-way offensive players (besides Dunn and WCJ), they promoted Boylen.

Seemed more like a self-sabotaging strategy. Littered in their were highly flawed prospects with low-to-mid ceilings. I can safely say that by 2017, GarPax didn’t even have a “type” of player. Throwing darts at 1-position guys, who had next to no compatibility with each other. Almost felt like a pre-Bird/Magic era build, if you ask me.


I think now that we have seen AKME operate, its even more obvious just how bad GarPax was for the last 8-10 years. No vision whatsoever. Just trying to fill skill holes with specialists . . . which created other holes. It was an eternal game of whack a mole.

Going back further, I think Paxson at first did have a vision. Draft hard workers and winners and win with defense while trying to land a superstar. He never got that star. Got close with Kobe though. Right around when Gar took over, it seemed to all fall apart.


Funnily Skiles and Pax were at the fore-front of super small-ball, with the Deng/Noc front court, and Kirk/Ben/Duhon combos. I think he had a great 04 off-season that set the tone. After that, pressure went on and I liked some moves at the time but they all back-fired. He bought into the need for a low-post scorer after getting stung by the Tyrus/LMA draft and signing Wallace - looking back, the tweener PFs (JJ, Noc, move Deng up) and defenders (Taj) were totally the way forward. That VDN hiring was the dark end to whatever I liked about Pax. I honestly think Thibs/Adams solely fixed the Bulls' course for those 3-4 years or so (entirely excluding Rose's rise and fall). I'm curious who really scouted/pushed Jimmy (Thibs, Adams, Lloyd.. or Gar?).


Paxson didn't even hire Thibs. He couldn't get any coaches to break bread with him after he assaulted VDN, so Uncle Jerry had to go over his head & hired Thibs himself. Some treasurer or political figure recommended Thibs to Uncle Jerry at a party or something.

Paxson was the worst, no one liked him & every decision he made was like a carrot trying to do calculus. He never wanted Thibs there & did everything in his power to get rid of him. So, when you think about it, Paxson essentially had nothing to do with the 2010-12 success. If you remove the Thibs hire, Paxson went 18 yrs without a single conference finals appearance

People hammered them for hiring Boilen, but they didn't actually want to hire him. They literally had no choice, he was the only person that would accept the job. Paxson couldn't get any actual NBA head coaches to return his phone calls. Rick Carlisle is on record warning his peers at coaching conferences never to even consider working for GarPax.

Hoiberg doesn't count, as he had personal connections to them
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#105 » by CaPiTanAK » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:15 pm

BeKuK wrote:NOT EVEN gonna say BYE ...or THANK YOU...to Lauri.

Only thing I really appreciate is that with his going away, so did my frustration. It is like I finally can be happy again....^^


And the dumb conspiracy theories about how AK is trying to sabotage Lauri value or that Lavine needs to give Lauri more touches to get going, or how people are stealing his rebounds, or how our trash perimeter defense is putting too much pressure on Lauri.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#106 » by GrowingHorns » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:54 pm

CaPiTanAK wrote:
BeKuK wrote:NOT EVEN gonna say BYE ...or THANK YOU...to Lauri.

Only thing I really appreciate is that with his going away, so did my frustration. It is like I finally can be happy again....^^


And the dumb conspiracy theories about how AK is trying to sabotage Lauri value or that Lavine needs to give Lauri more touches to get going, or how people are stealing his rebounds, or how our trash perimeter defense is putting too much pressure on Lauri.


The last one is true though, but common problems in lot of NBA teams. And with the Bulls it wasn't just Lauri who suffered about that but all of them, the worst, the average and the better ones in front court defenders.
But "how people are stealing his rebounds"?! :lol:
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#107 » by kodo » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:18 pm

coldfish wrote:
E-DC wrote:
weneeda2guard wrote:Lauri was once again the brain child of a front office that had no vision no innovation, all they did was copy off other teams who were doing well and trying to find players in the mold of other stars already discovered by other teams. We only select lauri because new York found Porzingis. We grab snell hoping he would be another kawhi, and so on.

This actually sounds a lot like this new front office. Are you trying to be ironic?


This front office is clearly trying to set up the team to copy what everyone else is doing. We are supposed to be a more athletic version of Denver.

That said, the previous FO was chasing what other teams WERE doing. They were basically 8 years behind the curve bringing in shooting specialists like its 2008 in 2017.

Comparable, but not the same.


Is it even copying if AK was the architect behind Denver? That sounds like blaming Phil Jackson's Lakers triangle offense for copying the Phil Jackson Bulls triangle offense.

I would imagine the entire point of paying him a boatload of money was to come here and do exactly what he did in Denver.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#108 » by dice » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:31 am

SaNdMiRkS wrote:
sco wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

Lauri didn’t look like a terrible pick, he just never got better at this level. I mean still a better pick than Frankie Smokes. Obviously Mitchell, Bam,OG and Collins were all better choices but they all dropped further too. More of this is on Lauri not developing.

IMO, Lauri wasn't a bad pick. He came in an athletic 7 footer who could shoot the 3. There was really nothing I can see in retrospect that looked like a red flag. He had the sort of rookie year that a potential star could have had. From there, it's hard to pin down his lowered improvement trajectory to a single thing. His injuries clearly had an impact. The coaching changes could also have played a role. Bad training advice seemed to also play a part. Also, he didn't show the type of work ethic that elite guys show. Probably a combo of all the above. He has shown some improvement in his game, and I expect he will become a more efficient player and a better defender with just time and experience.

My biggest objection to wanting to signing him for the amount that he got was that I don't think he's durable, and I didn't think he'd play enough to warrant that $.


Given the circumstances, the red flags were abundant. LauMarkk wasn't expected to be a role player for Chicago; Paxson christened him the saviour of the franchise post-JB

he did no such thing. you're making things up yet again

nobody should expect a #7 pick to be a star
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#109 » by dice » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:46 am

SaNdMiRkS wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
coldfish wrote:
I think now that we have seen AKME operate, its even more obvious just how bad GarPax was for the last 8-10 years. No vision whatsoever. Just trying to fill skill holes with specialists . . . which created other holes. It was an eternal game of whack a mole.

Going back further, I think Paxson at first did have a vision. Draft hard workers and winners and win with defense while trying to land a superstar. He never got that star. Got close with Kobe though. Right around when Gar took over, it seemed to all fall apart.


Funnily Skiles and Pax were at the fore-front of super small-ball, with the Deng/Noc front court, and Kirk/Ben/Duhon combos. I think he had a great 04 off-season that set the tone. After that, pressure went on and I liked some moves at the time but they all back-fired. He bought into the need for a low-post scorer after getting stung by the Tyrus/LMA draft and signing Wallace - looking back, the tweener PFs (JJ, Noc, move Deng up) and defenders (Taj) were totally the way forward. That VDN hiring was the dark end to whatever I liked about Pax. I honestly think Thibs/Adams solely fixed the Bulls' course for those 3-4 years or so (entirely excluding Rose's rise and fall). I'm curious who really scouted/pushed Jimmy (Thibs, Adams, Lloyd.. or Gar?).


Paxson didn't even hire Thibs. He couldn't get any coaches to break bread with him after he assaulted VDN, so Uncle Jerry had to go over his head & hired Thibs himself. Some treasurer or political figure recommended Thibs to Uncle Jerry at a party or something.

Paxson was the worst, no one liked him & every decision he made was like a carrot trying to do calculus. He never wanted Thibs there & did everything in his power to get rid of him. So, when you think about it, Paxson essentially had nothing to do with the 2010-12 success. If you remove the Thibs hire, Paxson went 18 yrs without a single conference finals appearance

People hammered them for hiring Boilen, but they didn't actually want to hire him. They literally had no choice, he was the only person that would accept the job. Paxson couldn't get any actual NBA head coaches to return his phone calls. Rick Carlisle is on record warning his peers at coaching conferences never to even consider working for GarPax.

bunk. there are COUNTLESS quality candidates who would have jumped at the chance to coach the chicago bulls. boylen was a crossroads penny-pincher hire

and paxson put together promising teams before derrick rose came around. he couldn't miss as a GM for the first handful of years on the job. the ben wallace signing proved to be his first significant blunder. and derrick's supporting cast was underrated as evidenced by being very competitive and fun to watch in his absence. it wasn't all thibs. only after the homerun jimmy butler draft did things go south
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#110 » by MalagaBulls » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:41 pm

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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#111 » by Mk0 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:30 pm

coldfish wrote:
E-DC wrote:
weneeda2guard wrote:Lauri was once again the brain child of a front office that had no vision no innovation, all they did was copy off other teams who were doing well and trying to find players in the mold of other stars already discovered by other teams. We only select lauri because new York found Porzingis. We grab snell hoping he would be another kawhi, and so on.

This actually sounds a lot like this new front office. Are you trying to be ironic?


This front office is clearly trying to set up the team to copy what everyone else is doing. We are supposed to be a more athletic version of Denver.

That said, the previous FO was chasing what other teams WERE doing. They were basically 8 years behind the curve bringing in shooting specialists like its 2008 in 2017.

Comparable, but not the same.

AK was part of what Denver did. This isn't copying someone else, this is building a team the way he knows how.

Regarding GarPax, as good as we were with Rose, we all had issues with the way GarPax built around him. It is baffling that they couldn't find a SG better than Bogans. If you are the FO you force Thibs hand and trade Bogans. Either he starts the new SG or Korver gets the job. How many Aaron Afflalo and Courtney Lee threads did we have?

And after all of that they decided you couldn't build around Jimmy Butler, who may have peaked in the bubble, but had he stayed we would have had a nice 3-4 year window.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#112 » by dice » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:29 pm

to state the obvious, zach lavine is the centerpiece of the team and a remnant of the garpax era. their shadow will lurk as long as lavine is in town

coby and arci were also garpax acquisitions
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#113 » by coldfish » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:46 pm

dice wrote:to state the obvious, zach lavine is the centerpiece of the team and a remnant of the garpax era. their shadow will lurk as long as lavine is in town

coby and arci were also garpax acquisitions


Arci was let go. Its just coby and lavine right now and I'm guessing that coby won't be here next year.

As far as Lavine, people will just bring up the fact that the Bulls wanted Wiggins instead of Lavine and Thibs agreed but the Wolves owner stepped in and forced Lavine because he wanted to keep Wiggins. The guy who had the biggest hand in Lavine being here is Glen Taylor.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#114 » by TheJordanRule » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:51 pm

dice wrote:to state the obvious, zach lavine is the centerpiece of the team and a remnant of the garpax era. their shadow will lurk as long as lavine is in town

coby and arci were also garpax acquisitions


The difference is that Zach has proven worthy of the investment we made in him. He’s the soul of our franchise now. GarPax made epic blunders but Zach wasn’t one of them. We’re not obligated to trade Zach on account of GarPax’s heinous stench err I mean shadow. Also, if Coby can handle the microwave scoring role off the bench this year, we’re keeping him too. It’s not all about legacies. We know what the GarPax legacy was mostly about: epic failure and foolish fiscal conservativism. The lack of creativity was especially painful during the Rose years when we could have increased the odds of winning a chip by manipulating the cap. They had no vision. It’s shocking how lazy they were. We weren’t going to win the chip even if Rose had stayed healthy. We never had the horses for that.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#115 » by nekorajo » Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:15 pm

For 2 seasons Lauri had me fooled. I thought he could be a star. What happened to him spending his summers with Dirk's trainer? What part of his game did he improve over the off seasons? I thought he would develop at least 1 post move. But no. He still can't dominate a street cone in the post.

His request to leave the team was the final straw for me. He's a villain now. We're finally going to be good, and now he wants to bail? Patrick Williams is the only competition at PF and Lauri tucks his tail? Good riddance.

Thank God we got Zach in that Jimmy Butler trade. He was always the most important piece anyway.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#116 » by TallDude » Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:31 pm

nekorajo wrote:For 2 seasons Lauri had me fooled. I thought he could be a star. What happened to him spending his summers with Dirk's trainer? What part of his game did he improve over the off seasons? I thought he would develop at least 1 post move. But no. He still can't dominate a street cone in the post.

His request to leave the team was the final straw for me. He's a villain now. We're finally going to be good, and now he wants to bail? Patrick Williams is the only competition at PF and Lauri tucks his tail? Good riddance.

Thank God we got Zach in that Jimmy Butler trade. He was always the most important piece anyway.


Probably my last post here. Im still gonna follow Bulls and perhaps this forum. Bulls have not great team but really young and intresting one. It could be terrible season or good season. Terrible because people have high hopes again. Bulls have not star defense but NBA is more offence than defence today. I hope Bulls make it to playoff. As for Lauri i will start follow Cleveland of course. Its not still become my favorite team. Lauri will drop 22/9 with 42% of 3´s. His assists and defence is improved this offseason. He is also motivated more and his kids are not bothering him so much bc they are older. Now his focus is finally in basketball. But there is a chance that Lauri will be in Dallas next year. KP might leave. Lauri has not that star attitude what KP has. Luca is the star in that team.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#117 » by dice » Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:02 am

TheJordanRule wrote:
dice wrote:to state the obvious, zach lavine is the centerpiece of the team and a remnant of the garpax era. their shadow will lurk as long as lavine is in town

coby and arci were also garpax acquisitions


The difference is that Zach has proven worthy of the investment we made in him. He’s the soul of our franchise now.

boy is that depressing

GarPax made epic blunders but Zach wasn’t one of them.

drafting sam bowie over MJ is an epic blunder. if garpax made an epic blunder surely we'd all be able to name it off the top of our heads. i, for one, have no earthly idea what you're referring to. the first thing that comes to mind is aldridge over tyrus, which not only was not remotely epic, but was prior to gar becoming GM

We’re not obligated to trade Zach on account of GarPax’s heinous stench err I mean shadow.

of course it doesn't obligate a trade of zach. but you also can't say that the garpax era has been wiped clean. i would argue that as long as lavine is here and the team isn't a contender, the mediocrity of the post-jimmy garpax era remains as well

as soon as artie extends lavine it extends the legacy of the garpax era another 5 years. settle in

We know what the GarPax legacy was mostly about: epic failure and foolish fiscal conservativism.

boy, your definition of 'epic' is wildly different than any i've ever come across. i'm tempted to suggest that perhaps you are an exaggerator of epic proportions

The lack of creativity was especially painful during the Rose years when we could have increased the odds of winning a chip by manipulating the cap.

how?

are you at all familiar with the name irwin mandel? he didn't leave the team until 2016 and was legendary for his knowledge/exploitation of salary cap rules. you can bet that all avenues to exploit loopholes were explored

They had no vision. It’s shocking how lazy they were. We weren’t going to win the chip even if Rose had stayed healthy. We never had the horses for that.

err...we were very competitive with miami in year 1 of the thibs era. after game 1 we might have been the favorites (supposedly great predictor charles barkley had us winning it at that point i recall). don't pretend that if derrick didn't play better in that series and boozer didn't get destroyed by bosh we couldn't have won that series. and neither of those eventualities was inevitable

as for laziness, they cleared cap room to go after lebron/wade/bosh and by all accounts nearly pulled it off...despite derrick being uninterested in recruiting them
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#118 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:52 am

TallDude wrote:
nekorajo wrote:For 2 seasons Lauri had me fooled. I thought he could be a star. What happened to him spending his summers with Dirk's trainer? What part of his game did he improve over the off seasons? I thought he would develop at least 1 post move. But no. He still can't dominate a street cone in the post.

His request to leave the team was the final straw for me. He's a villain now. We're finally going to be good, and now he wants to bail? Patrick Williams is the only competition at PF and Lauri tucks his tail? Good riddance.

Thank God we got Zach in that Jimmy Butler trade. He was always the most important piece anyway.


Probably my last post here. Im still gonna follow Bulls and perhaps this forum. Bulls have not great team but really young and intresting one. It could be terrible season or good season. Terrible because people have high hopes again. Bulls have not star defense but NBA is more offence than defence today. I hope Bulls make it to playoff. As for Lauri i will start follow Cleveland of course. Its not still become my favorite team. Lauri will drop 22/9 with 42% of 3´s. His assists and defence is improved this offseason. He is also motivated more and his kids are not bothering him so much bc they are older. Now his focus is finally in basketball. But there is a chance that Lauri will be in Dallas next year. KP might leave. Lauri has not that star attitude what KP has. Luca is the star in that team.



It’s very possible Cleveland and trades Lauri at some point, a package of Lauri, sexton and a pick could be a decent compensation for some player potentially. They have a team that has A few duplications and I am sure they will make a move at some point. That being said Lauri is not a bad fit with Mobley potentially. The team is still bad but they have some interesting talent. Really hope it works out for him there.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#119 » by Red8911 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:45 am

nekorajo wrote:For 2 seasons Lauri had me fooled. I thought he could be a star. What happened to him spending his summers with Dirk's trainer? What part of his game did he improve over the off seasons? I thought he would develop at least 1 post move. But no. He still can't dominate a street cone in the post.

His request to leave the team was the final straw for me. He's a villain now. We're finally going to be good, and now he wants to bail? Patrick Williams is the only competition at PF and Lauri tucks his tail? Good riddance.

Thank God we got Zach in that Jimmy Butler trade. He was always the most important piece anyway.
Couldn’t agree more most of us thought Lauri would become something special. He actually had all the tools to succeed, he’s talented, scores, shoots, has size/strength.

Imo his biggest problem is his basketball IQ. He’s just very dumb and doesn’t take advantage of his skill set or his size.Usually players improve through experience but Lauri at 24 still plays the same way he did as a rookie, didn’t improve at anything at all.

That’s why even though I liked him and was hoping he turns his career around I am too glad he’s finally gone. Also him wanting to leave pissed me off as well.If he turns things around in Cleveland then good for him, as a Bull he was mostly disappointing.
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Re: Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era 

Post#120 » by kapo » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:39 am

Its a win-win. I can see this happening again and the bulls fans will see it too. What an appreciation thread. It's a joke.

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