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coldfish wrote:I thought I read that the Bulls wanted Aminu off the books and the Derozan trade offered that opportunity.

When you look at the Bulls monetary outlays for this season, its well spent money. Only really Coby sticks out as a misuse of funds. I think this was a big part of their plan. Use a pick to dump salary and then get a pick and no salary for Lauri.

If it was Aminu swapped in for Lauri, then the choice was:

DJJ + Portland pick + Cleveland 2nd
or
Aminu + Their pick

I don't think one of those packages is clearly better than the other. The Bulls pick has lesser protection and has a chance of being a better pick. It also ties up your flexibility to make a huge multipick offer for a star which might prove important down the road. The Portland pick is interesting because it probably projects to come in at 15-18 this year so it has more value in time value of hitting sooner if it conveys there. There is some significant risk with that selection if Portland ends up blowing it up (and they barely made the playoffs last year).

DJJ is a better than Aminu this year unless Aminu has a major turnaround but is still a fringe rotation player and doesn't really bring anything unique to the team that is a huge upgrade.

The Cleveland 2nd is meh, like all 2nds, but maybe a nice hedge if the Bulls lose a 2nd in tampering or just as a minor asset for later.

All in all, I could see desiring either of those packages more than the other.

GoBlue72391 wrote:...
Remember how terrible he looked under Boylen when he was used as a floor spacer? Players play better when they're utilized properly, who would have thunk it?
...

He looked better under Boylen & Donovan, who reduced his role.

He was the worst when doing things like bringing the ball up, initiating the offense, and trying to attack the basket with this awful "drag step" move which was just a contested fadeaway instead of a layup or dunk.

First 2 seasons his TS% scoring efficiency was 55% both years, which is below league average (57.2%). His offensive rating was 107 both years.

Boylen narrowed his role to mainly a spot up shooter, his efficiency went up slightly to 56%. His offensive rating went up to 108. Slight improvements. Donovan narrowed his role the most, and his efficiency skyrocketed to 62% and his offensive rating 115.

Narrowing his role and focusing Markkanen on what he is, a spot up shooter, improved his value. He wouldn't be looking at $17M a year if he was just a 34% 7 footer who can't handle the ball or play defense.

One criticism that is valid about how Lauri was used is that both coaches could have got him the ball under the basket more for easy dunks and layups, but every team could use more easy dunks & layups if it was that easy everyone would be doing it every possession.

I thought this version of Lauri under Billy was the best version we've seen of Lauri, a catch & shoot specialist. Most of this season I was advocating we can't get a better PF for $15M or under, if we could agree on that contract, and wanted to keep him. I wouldn't be excited about a Lauri posting up or handling the ball or trying to be a playmaker and taking those possessions away from other players who are clearly better at that.

Interesting tidbits from a Finnish podcast Lauri was on. Thanks to the redditor for translating.

Lauri confirms that the Bulls offered him 60M/4y in December, and that he considered himself to be worth more, based how he had been playing and what other players from his draft class were getting. Although he wasn't having the best season of his career, he recognized that he still has room to develop too.

Lauri had agreed to go to the Spurs. Until the last moments, he personally believed that he would be a part of the DeRozan trade. "I was in Helsinki at a Gettomasa concert, holding my phone the whole time, because something was supposed to go down. But then it turned out that the names were changed in the contract, and I ended up not being involved."

Brian Windhorst reported that Markkanen's asking price was more than what the Spurs were willing to pay. Lauri denies that this was the case. According to Lauri, he had accepted what the Spurs were offering him, and the reason that the deal fell apart was due to "other factors in the background". He found it annoying that Windhorst reported false information, and was left wondering what his source had been.

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/comments/pv9k5v/lauri_markkanen_on_a_finnish_podcast/

PaKii94 wrote:Interesting tidbits from a Finnish podcast Lauri was on. Thanks to the redditor for translating.

Lauri confirms that the Bulls offered him 60M/4y in December, and that he considered himself to be worth more, based how he had been playing and what other players from his draft class were getting. Although he wasn't having the best season of his career, he recognized that he still has room to develop too.

Lauri had agreed to go to the Spurs. Until the last moments, he personally believed that he would be a part of the DeRozan trade. "I was in Helsinki at a Gettomasa concert, holding my phone the whole time, because something was supposed to go down. But then it turned out that the names were changed in the contract, and I ended up not being involved."

Brian Windhorst reported that Markkanen's asking price was more than what the Spurs were willing to pay. Lauri denies that this was the case. According to Lauri, he had accepted what the Spurs were offering him, and the reason that the deal fell apart was due to "other factors in the background". He found it annoying that Windhorst reported false information, and was left wondering what his source had been.

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/comments/pv9k5v/lauri_markkanen_on_a_finnish_podcast/

Interesting. Some where in the middle is the truth. Something must've put the Spurs off. And obviously had this happened we'd still have Thad.

"He found it annoying that Windhorst reported false information, and was left wondering what his source had been."

Windy hasn't had a great track record giving out information about the Bulls.

But ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, appearing on ESPN 1000 in Chicago, said that he believes Boylen will return.

His logic revolved around the Bulls new management of vice president Arturas Karnisovas and general manager Marc Eversley not wanting to pay two head coaches’ salaries. That had to strike fans to the nerve because it is very much in line with the Bulls regimes of old, and a departure from all that this off-season has stood for.

https://pippenainteasy.com/2020/07/03/get-ready-jim-boylen-chicago-bulls-fans/

kodo wrote:"He found it annoying that Windhorst reported false information, and was left wondering what his source had been."

Windy hasn't had a great track record giving out information about the Bulls.

But ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, appearing on ESPN 1000 in Chicago, said that he believes Boylen will return.

His logic revolved around the Bulls new management of vice president Arturas Karnisovas and general manager Marc Eversley not wanting to pay two head coaches’ salaries. That had to strike fans to the nerve because it is very much in line with the Bulls regimes of old, and a departure from all that this off-season has stood for.

https://pippenainteasy.com/2020/07/03/get-ready-jim-boylen-chicago-bulls-fans/

The Lauri information was actually reporting, based on a source. The Boylen information wasn’t information at all. It was only speculation based on Windhorst’s impression of the organization.

bulls_troy wrote:
Interesting. Some where in the middle is the truth. Something must've put the Spurs off. And obviously had this happened we'd still have Thad.

It was already reported that Bulls were the ones who pulled Lauri off.

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/10/cleveland-cavaliers-encouraging-tremendous-fit-lauri-markkanen-to-be-more-than-a-one-dimensional-player.html

In for a real treat on Tuesday!

… I guess this is going to be the Lauri tracking thread?

I’ll say before the early returns:

He’ll benefit playing with big athletic rim protectors.

He’ll benefit from less pressure (Cleveland, bench, zero win expectations).

He’ll benefit from being traded - the good old wake-up call. And just being a year older.

He’ll benefit from Rubio.

All in all I think it was a good destination for him. Could make the trade look bad for Chicago. Reality is he seemed set on leaving, but he was also a really bad fit for Zach and Vuc.

MrSparkle wrote:… I guess this is going to be the Lauri tracking thread?

I’ll say before the early returns:

He’ll benefit playing with big athletic rim protectors.

He’ll benefit from less pressure (Cleveland, bench, zero win expectations).

He’ll benefit from being traded - the good old wake-up call. And just being a year older.

He’ll benefit from Rubio.

All in all I think it was a good destination for him. Could make the trade look bad for Chicago. Reality is he seemed set on leaving, but he was also a really bad fit for Zach and Vuc.

I agree about the destination. The only downside is that he’s the third wheel of the bigs. The upside is he’s a good fit with both of them and if they treat it as a 3-big rotation there will be starter’s minutes available for Lauri to snag.

I also think Lauri is a talented player and is likely to have a solid NBA career. He just pretty clearly was a bad idea for the Bulls going forward (and vice versa). I like our team a whole lot better now with him gone.

I wish Lauri all the best, seems like a real good fella. I really don't see myself tracking his career from now on, though.

MrSparkle wrote:… I guess this is going to be the Lauri tracking thread?

I’ll say before the early returns:

He’ll benefit playing with big athletic rim protectors.

He’ll benefit from less pressure (Cleveland, bench, zero win expectations).

He’ll benefit from being traded - the good old wake-up call. And just being a year older.

He’ll benefit from Rubio.

All in all I think it was a good destination for him. Could make the trade look bad for Chicago. Reality is he seemed set on leaving, but he was also a really bad fit for Zach and Vuc.

The consensus with the Cavs boards seems to be coming closer now to Lauri starting and letting Mobley grow off the bench. In cavs scrimmage Lauri looked really good and making fast decisions of passing or shooting the ball, and seems his shot release is even more effortless looking. Flashed with one thing too i didn't for my harm see him doing with any of Bulls material: a simple pass-fake on closing defender to take one dribble and launch a wet three.

If Lauri is as good as Pakii, me and few others think, Cavs might end up having a real positive problem with him and Mobley. both are so different players, and in some point, K.Love will be out of Cle and it still leaves lot of minutes for Allen, Mobley and Lauri.

Grodoboldo wrote:I wish Lauri all the best, seems like a real good fella. I really don't see myself tracking his career from now on, though.

Especially his career IN CLEVELAND. With all due respect to Garland and Mobley, 2 prospects I really like, there’s just no way I can get myself to watch more than 5 Cavs games this season.

MrSparkle wrote:… I guess this is going to be the Lauri tracking thread?

I’ll say before the early returns:

He’ll benefit playing with big athletic rim protectors.

He’ll benefit from less pressure (Cleveland, bench, zero win expectations).

He’ll benefit from being traded - the good old wake-up call. And just being a year older.

He’ll benefit from Rubio.

All in all I think it was a good destination for him. Could make the trade look bad for Chicago. Reality is he seemed set on leaving, but he was also a really bad fit for Zach and Vuc.

I dunno --- I agree with the above, but I also think he's going to be the player he always was.

He'll be very good as a 3rd scorer behind Garland and Sexton - the fit is there, to include next to Mobley and Allen. However, he'll only be passable (at best) on defense, guardable by smaller players (in fact, guarded better by large wing than by bigs), and generally earn, but not out-perform, his contract.

My guess is he'll put up something like 18 pts, 7 rebounds per game, on very good percentages, without necessarily moving the needle because those points will be a result of other folks creating for him. Basically what we saw from 2nd year Lauri.

In the end, the issue with the Bulls wasn't Lauri - it was expectations and fit. Any expectation that Lauri would be a superstar who would essentially create offense on his own by being a walking mismatch - too big for wings to guard, to fast for bigs... has pretty much been dispelled - he's not too big for wings to guard.

And once the Bulls traded for Vuc ... the fit just wasn't there. You need a strong defensive and rebounding 5 who can help if Lauri gets isolated defensively by larger players in the post. The Cavs have that - the Bulls have the rebounding but not the defense - and in fact need defense from their 4 to cover for the "passable" nature of their primary 5.

I do think that this was a win-win trade for both teams. Bulls needed a better fit and to resupply assets; Cavs needed a latent upgrade and shooting - and Lauri fits like a glove on the Cavs.

Little Nathan wrote:

Grodoboldo wrote:I wish Lauri all the best, seems like a real good fella. I really don't see myself tracking his career from now on, though.

Especially his career IN CLEVELAND. With all due respect to Garland and Mobley, 2 prospects I really like, there’s just no way I can get myself to watch more than 5 Cavs games this season.

The Cavs could be a really exciting team over time.

Not only do I love the fit with Lauri, but I like Sexton a lot more than most - I love the aggression with how he plays the game. The two PG lineup with him and Garland is fun and very "modern NBA." Allen and Okoro bring major defensive and transition energy, and Mobley is expected to do the same.

Rubio and Osman will be very good as rotation players, and I also think Kabengele will have a long future as an NBA rotation 5 (though he's a young guy who regressed in year two - and the success/failure of young guys is based on how much they want it, how hard and smart they work, along with injuries and luck..., and I have no insight into him).

Any team who faces Cleveland needs to take them very seriously. They could easily force their way into the play-in given the overall talent on the team, and will beat plenty of "better" teams, too.

coldfish wrote:When you look at the Bulls monetary outlays for this season, its well spent money. Only really Coby sticks out as a misuse of funds.

I don't get this, every team in the league would love to have a Coby White on his rookie contract as a bench player. Lou Williams put up the same numbers and got more money from six different teams for ten years in a row, and Coby's half a foot taller and considerably stronger.

I understand some angst over his inability to run an NBA offense as a 20 year old kid, but "misuse of funds" is ridiculous.

MGB8 wrote:

Little Nathan wrote:

Grodoboldo wrote:I wish Lauri all the best, seems like a real good fella. I really don't see myself tracking his career from now on, though.

Especially his career IN CLEVELAND. With all due respect to Garland and Mobley, 2 prospects I really like, there’s just no way I can get myself to watch more than 5 Cavs games this season.

The Cavs could be a really exciting team over time.

Not only do I love the fit with Lauri, but I like Sexton a lot more than most - I love the aggression with how he plays the game. The two PG lineup with him and Garland is fun and very "modern NBA." Allen and Okoro bring major defensive and transition energy, and Mobley is expected to do the same.

Rubio and Osman will be very good as rotation players, and I also think Kabengele will have a long future as an NBA rotation 5 (though he's a young guy who regressed in year two - and the success/failure of young guys is based on how much they want it, how hard and smart they work, along with injuries and luck..., and I have no insight into him).

Any team who faces Cleveland needs to take them very seriously. They could easily force their way into the play-in given the overall talent on the team, and will beat plenty of "better" teams, too.

To me the Cavs just have a ton of one-way players, too many guys who can’t pass, no wing depth and I don’t see "the guy" who can turn their situation around. Plus Sexton is one of the least enjoyable players to watch for me (the high usage/no playmaking/all scoring guard archetype), so I’m just out on the Cavs. He’s also a terrible fit next to Garland and takes the ball out of his hands even though Garland is easily the better prospect IMO.

meekrab wrote:

coldfish wrote:When you look at the Bulls monetary outlays for this season, its well spent money. Only really Coby sticks out as a misuse of funds.

I don't get this, every team in the league would love to have a Coby White on his rookie contract as a bench player. Lou Williams put up the same numbers and got more money from six different teams for ten years in a row, and Coby's half a foot taller and considerably stronger.

I understand some angst over his inability to run an NBA offense as a 20 year old kid, but "misuse of funds" is ridiculous.

Coby is your 4th guard. Ball, Lavine, Caruso.

He is one of the highest paid 4th guards in the NBA on a team that is really questionable at the 4 spot. That's a misuse of funds. I'm not beating up AKME too much over this because no team allocates money perfectly but if someone goes over the money versus role, Coby is the one that sticks out.

Just to add: Its actually DJJ but he is a 1 year expiring the team had to take on to facilitate a trade. I overlook that one.