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Hold That wrote:

Wingy wrote:

Hold That wrote:If Ryan didnt look like an all American hockey player. Nobody on this board would care where he ended up.

If it wasn’t so inflammatory...oh what the heck. Let’s be honest:

A lot of white privilege for a guy with Arci’s lack of NBA-level talent to stick so long, and actually get run, and be liked by fans for being the good ole underdog.

There’s some privilege there but I felt he stuck because he was a good lockeroom guy, hustled, and handsome as well. Wouldn’t be surprised if Paxson oddly saw a lot of himself in Ryan. He was definitely a front office favorite.

AK isn’t american born and I doubt Mark Eversley gives a damn about Ryan which is why he’s looking for work.

I mention looks because anyone who’s worked in the workforce knows being attractive and personable can keep you around longer than what you deserve. If Ryan looked like Rusty LaRue he’d been off the team 2 seasons ago.

There are tons of good locker room guys that hustle, have more talent, and never even sniff the sort of chance & money Arci got.

You could be on to something w/Pax seeing some of himself...but then again, there’s a lot of privilege in him holding the job in the first place.

Not sure Arci is some heart throb, but you’re right...looking like a goof ball, or ugly af wouldn’t have helped his cause.

We have enough midgets. NBA wise.

He'll give Marcus Smart a lot of problems in training camp, I wager.

Ugly Duckling wrote:one thing gar/pax were good at was finding needles in the pg haystack. dinwiddie, payne, etc.

R u serious?

Indomitable wrote:

Ugly Duckling wrote:one thing gar/pax were good at was finding needles in the pg haystack. dinwiddie, payne, etc.

R u serious?

Mike James, John Lucas III... Shall I go on?

In the last two years before the dealing started, there were people here endorsing him for the starting PG job and now he's got a training camp deal. The Arci backers need to get it through their heads, he was a prime example of how bad things were here.

Arci isn't any good but unlike many 3rd string players he won't kill you on the court. Tbh I kinda thought he should have fulfilled the Sato role for a fraction of the cost. But glad he's gone now being replaced by better players.

Wingy wrote:There are tons of good locker room guys that hustle, have more talent, and never even sniff the sort of chance & money Arci got.

You could be on to something w/Pax seeing some of himself...but then again, there’s a lot of privilege in him holding the job in the first place.

Not sure Arci is some heart throb, but you’re right...looking like a goof ball, or ugly af wouldn’t have helped his cause.

Off the cuff, being white doesn't seem like an advantage in the NBA to me. Seems more the opposite that people make negative assumptions about you that you must overcome.

Arci's a competent shooter, ball handler, passer, unselfish on both ends and plays with high effort. He's a fringe NBA talent, but he was signed/paid/played like a fringe NBA talent.

ChettheJet wrote:In the last two years before the dealing started, there were people here endorsing him for the starting PG job and now he's got a training camp deal. The Arci backers need to get it through their heads, he was a prime example of how bad things were here.

I don't recall anyone ever endorsing Arci as a starting PG. I don't know if anyone even endorsed this dude as the primary backup PG.

As a 3rd string PG, he was pretty reasonable.

BullChit wrote:

Indomitable wrote:

Ugly Duckling wrote:one thing gar/pax were good at was finding needles in the pg haystack. dinwiddie, payne, etc.

R u serious?

Mike James, John Lucas III... Shall I go on?

I feel like that was more Thibs than GarPax. Thibs was the PG whisperer and he vouched for JLIII because he coached him in Houston. Throw Augustin and Nate Rob in there too.

dougthonus wrote:

Wingy wrote:There are tons of good locker room guys that hustle, have more talent, and never even sniff the sort of chance & money Arci got.

You could be on to something w/Pax seeing some of himself...but then again, there’s a lot of privilege in him holding the job in the first place.

Not sure Arci is some heart throb, but you’re right...looking like a goof ball, or ugly af wouldn’t have helped his cause.

Off the cuff, being white doesn't seem like an advantage in the NBA to me. Seems more the opposite that people make negative assumptions about you that you must overcome.

Arci's a competent shooter, ball handler, passer, unselfish on both ends and plays with high effort. He's a fringe NBA talent, but he was signed/paid/played like a fringe NBA talent.

While I’m sure you’re talking in the context of a player, there certainly seems to be an advantage to being white in terms of top FO and coaching positions:

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2021/01/30/eric-walden-though/

Roughly 75-80% of the NBA’s players are Black. And yet, just nine of its 30 teams are coached by non-white men, seven of whom are Black (Charlotte’s James Borrego is Latino, and Miami’s Erik Spoelstra is Filipino). There is but a single Black president of basketball operations, in the Raptors’ Masai Ujiri (and two VPs, in OKC’s Will Dawkins and Memphis’ Tayshaun Prince). And there are only 10 Black general managers and nine Black assistant GMs.

Going off the poster I was responding to’s theory, if Pax saw himself, then Arci by the odds has likely benefited from some form of bias (systemic, unconscious...who knows).

Yes, Arci’s all kinds of fringe, but like I said - there are a lot of those guys. A lot of them w/greater upside if some things go right for them.

Wingy wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

Wingy wrote:There are tons of good locker room guys that hustle, have more talent, and never even sniff the sort of chance & money Arci got.

You could be on to something w/Pax seeing some of himself...but then again, there’s a lot of privilege in him holding the job in the first place.

Not sure Arci is some heart throb, but you’re right...looking like a goof ball, or ugly af wouldn’t have helped his cause.

Off the cuff, being white doesn't seem like an advantage in the NBA to me. Seems more the opposite that people make negative assumptions about you that you must overcome.

Arci's a competent shooter, ball handler, passer, unselfish on both ends and plays with high effort. He's a fringe NBA talent, but he was signed/paid/played like a fringe NBA talent.

While I’m sure you’re talking in the context of a player, there certainly seems to be an advantage to being white in terms of top FO and coaching positions:

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2021/01/30/eric-walden-though/

Roughly 75-80% of the NBA’s players are Black. And yet, just nine of its 30 teams are coached by non-white men, seven of whom are Black (Charlotte’s James Borrego is Latino, and Miami’s Erik Spoelstra is Filipino). There is but a single Black president of basketball operations, in the Raptors’ Masai Ujiri (and two VPs, in OKC’s Will Dawkins and Memphis’ Tayshaun Prince). And there are only 10 Black general managers and nine Black assistant GMs.

Going off the poster I was responding to’s theory, if Pax saw himself, then Arci by the odds has likely benefited from some form of bias (systemic, unconscious...who knows).

Yes, Arci’s all kinds of fringe, but like I said - there are a lot of those guys. A lot of them w/greater upside if some things go right for them.

Yes there's racism and not defending pax, but don't hang that on arci.

Portiseyes wrote:Yes there's racism and not defending pax, but don't hang that on arci.

Huh? Who’s attacking Arci?

I’m critiquing the player, that’s what we arm chair QBs do here.

Hanging around so long when his ability is “competent” at best, and he has zero upside. If you read the rest of the thread, it would make more sense.

Should he not play because he might have been helped by some kind of privilege? Of course not. He does the best he can w/his abilities, the NBA’s a dream, so of course any reasonable person would expect him to take the opportunity.

Wingy wrote:While I’m sure you’re talking in the context of a player, there certainly seems to be an advantage to being white in terms of top FO and coaching positions:

Roughly 75-80% of the NBA’s players are Black. And yet, just nine of its 30 teams are coached by non-white men, seven of whom are Black (Charlotte’s James Borrego is Latino, and Miami’s Erik Spoelstra is Filipino). There is but a single Black president of basketball operations, in the Raptors’ Masai Ujiri (and two VPs, in OKC’s Will Dawkins and Memphis’ Tayshaun Prince). And there are only 10 Black general managers and nine Black assistant GMs.

Going off the poster I was responding to’s theory, if Pax saw himself, then Arci by the odds has likely benefited from some form of bias (systemic, unconscious...who knows).

14% of the population in the US is black and 75% of the league is black, but you are going to quote numbers as the reason to why there is white privilege with players? The numbers would say the opposite of that by a startling amount. If you were going to look at purely the numbers, the conclusion you would draw without any other context is the NBA is shockingly racist towards all ethnicities other than blacks.

Clearly there is context that makes that not the case with a combination of much greater cultural interest and more common manifestation of advantageous physical traits.

However, fans generally seem to immediately write off white players and assume the worst. That's a big reason why Doncic was not the #1 pick overall. Lots of he's not athletic enough. Why did people think that do you suppose? People definitely don't look at white guys and go "oh, he's white, he's probably better". It's the exact opposite of that. In fact your whole take on this subject seems to evidence that thought pattern pretty exactly.

Yes, Arci’s all kinds of fringe, but like I said - there are a lot of those guys. A lot of them w/greater upside if some things go right for them.

And lower floors if things don't go well with them, and depending on the goal of a team that might be more important. He's a 37% 3 point shooter with a very good assist/to ratio, competent ball handler, moves the ball quickly, and gives up his body on defense readily / plays with high motor/effort. He's locked in as a 3rd string player due to other limitations (size / athleticism /quickness), but the attributes he has make him a very viable 3rd string PG for a team that wants stability rather than upside.

Wingy wrote:Huh? Who’s attacking Arci?

I’m critiquing the player, that’s what we arm chair QBs do here.

Sure, I'm not sure how you define the difference between critiquing and attacking in this sense, but when you say he's only there because of white privilege that sounds a lot more like attacking than critiquing.

Hanging around so long when his ability is “competent” at best, and he has zero upside. If you read the rest of the thread, it would make more sense.

For a 3rd string PG, competent may be very valuable in many situations vs not competent but with upside. When you are trying to develop many players with much more upside having fringe level competent guys may provide a better mix than fringe level developmental guys to assist the development of the better players and you may not have resources dedicated to try and help those fringe level upside guys improve.

GoBlue72391 wrote:

BullChit wrote:

Indomitable wrote:R u serious?

Mike James, John Lucas III... Shall I go on?

I feel like that was more Thibs than GarPax. Thibs was the PG whisperer and he vouched for JLIII because he coached him in Houston. Throw Augustin and Nate Rob in there too.

In the old Bulls days it was Randy Brown. I know the context was GarPax, but while younger Pax probably formed a template in his mind on what kinds of guys off the bench a team needs. Unfortunatley the thread takes an ugly turn. Anyway, we don't need RA with this roster.

dougthonus wrote:

ChettheJet wrote:In the last two years before the dealing started, there were people here endorsing him for the starting PG job and now he's got a training camp deal. The Arci backers need to get it through their heads, he was a prime example of how bad things were here.

I don't recall anyone ever endorsing Arci as a starting PG. I don't know if anyone even endorsed this dude as the primary backup PG.

As a 3rd string PG, he was pretty reasonable.

Yeah, the problem is, if the quality of your 3rd string PG actually matters, you have a really bad team. Arci isn't good enough to play non-garbage time NBA minutes.

meekrab wrote:Yeah, the problem is, if the quality of your 3rd string PG actually matters, you have a really bad team. Arci isn't good enough to play non-garbage time NBA minutes.

I think with Arci, he hurts you a lot less than a "high upside" 3rd string point guard. Say you had to have Arci or Dotson out there as an example. Arci would easily be able to keep a functional team when surrounded by other talent and just having to hit open shots, move the ball, bring the ball up the floor and play team defense.

I think Arci is being undersold here. IMO, in stretches when he got to play regular minutes for long stretches, he looked decent offensively and very good defensively. I think he'd be a decend 2nd stringer on a team that wasn't trying to find some young stud to develop.